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the JJ posted:At least partly, because the secret police can't be everywhere. They just need to be where people are.
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Sep 22, 2016 08:21
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a literal potato gun
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Sep 22, 2016 10:04
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Tias posted:Aw, and you're in a position to appreciate proper football, too! That's North America still (or Central America if you prefer that distinction). War's notable as a sort of last hurrah for a number of piston-engined WWII-era warplanes (in 1969).
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Sep 22, 2016 10:07
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HEY GAL posted:never go to d&d notes down furiously
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Sep 22, 2016 13:07
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Boiled Water posted:Despite the maths making it impossible, even if you could drop all the food how would you make sure the secret police didn't confiscate it? If the secret police is going around trying to confiscate food from civilians that would likely cause civil unrest of its own. Not saying the proposal is totally rational, but I feel like folks are giving it too little credit. It's one of those things that come down to cultural and political factors of how the Japanese would react at different levels, which is very difficult to quantify, really. (For instance, whether the comparison to the legendary Uesugi Kenshin sending salt to his enemies would raise the esteem of the US and reassure doubters of the US's honour) It's not that different to the Hegelian remedy for insurgencies - bribe the hell out of them. Which works sometimes. Fangz fucked around with this message at 13:45 on Sep 22, 2016 |
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Sep 22, 2016 13:30
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Finally got to the end of the thread, yay! Did I mention that I have a book on Mercenaries in Lithuanian-Polish (or Polish-Lithuanian) Commonwealth, which is basically a hardback PhD paper? I'll post stuff if I can glean anything from it. I also have Soldaten, some Speer book, Ivan's war, some book of diaries of a German dude that's in recon for a anti-tank unit from Barbarossa onward (it's the most "war ain't fun" book I've yet to read) and maybe something else. I buy books when they're cheap. As for the Polish Army Museum: I didn't take more pictures as an incentive for you goons to go outside and visit the beautiful Warsaw. And the museum, it's kinda fun. I guess the pre-19th century part is more fun since it has more great bits of weapons and armor, and less reading. WWI bit is way too long, tho. It's better than the Czech army museum that's basically WWI with some WWII. You'll stop caring about bolt-action rifles real fast.
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Sep 22, 2016 13:31
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Fangz posted:If the secret police is going around trying to confiscate food from civilians that would likely cause civil unrest of its own. Since we're going all out gay black Hitler here, what if the police and military seize the food from the starving citizens and basically trigger some sort of grass roots communist insurgency while the nation is besieged?
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Sep 22, 2016 14:11
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what if japan makes a good tank
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Sep 22, 2016 14:23
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JcDent posted:what if japan makes a good tank At least try and make your gay korean tojo fantasies plausible, fuckin' christ
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Sep 22, 2016 15:09
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HEY GAL posted:never go to d&d HEGEL you are very wise.
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Sep 22, 2016 15:12
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Anyhoodle, my copy of the biography of the first Chief of Naval Operations, William S. Benson, arrived yesterday and I'm gonna crack it open today in between writing a draft of a book proposal. Admiral Benson is famous for telling the first U.S. staff officer to travel to Europe in 1917, Admiral Sims, that he'd just as soon be in a shooting war with the Brits than the Germans, and to not trust them as far as he could throw them. Sims threw a general hissy fit to Congress after the war about various and sundry things like the Wilson administration and the Navy Department having totally unrealistic plans for a war against a European power (which was, as far as I've seen, a completely justified accusation), and that he got inadequate support and naval forces during the war (this was not at all true).
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Sep 22, 2016 15:16
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U.S. Navy officers' uniforms at the turn of the century were something special to behold. Whereas every other navy had uniforms that look more or less like modern uniforms, America did something really different: gently caress you European pissants, we're gonna dress our fleet as singing telegram men and like it. Speaking of, here's Admiral Benson.  I dare you not to think of him sounding like Sean Connery. Vincent Van Goatse fucked around with this message at 15:24 on Sep 22, 2016 |
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Sep 22, 2016 15:20
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ALL-PRO SEXMAN posted:Anyhoodle, my copy of the biography of the first Chief of Naval Operations, William S. Benson, arrived yesterday and I'm gonna crack it open today in between writing a draft of a book proposal. Gay black Wilhelm II question: What would've happened in a war of British Empire v. US of A? I mean the US can hardly be blockaded. ALL-PRO SEXMAN posted:U.S. Navy officers' uniforms at the turn of the century were something special to behold. Whereas every other navy had uniforms that look more or less like modern uniforms, America did something really different: I heard, on QI I believe, an anecdote about German naval officers who needed to pass through Suez (possibly on foot/with motorcar) and in order to blend in took of their emblems / German Navy insignia and passed for British Officers. Is there anything to this anecdote?
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Sep 22, 2016 15:25
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Boiled Water posted:Gay black Wilhelm II question: What would've happened in a war of British Empire v. US of A? I mean the US can hardly be blockaded. What year? There was a war between the British Empire and USA, the War of 1812.
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Sep 22, 2016 15:32
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ALL-PRO SEXMAN posted:I dare you not to think of him sounding like Sean Connery. Welp, I lost. Cythereal posted:What year? There was a war between the British Empire and USA, the War of 1812. On that subject, if you are descended from the native american tribes and states during that era we're really really loving sorry we cut and run  .
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Sep 22, 2016 15:33
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Cythereal posted:What year? There was a war between the British Empire and USA, the War of 1812. Sorry I meant in context of WWI.
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Sep 22, 2016 15:36
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Boiled Water posted:Sorry I meant in context of WWI. The US actually had a plan for this immediately after WW1: War Plan Red, codifying existing thoughts and plans into one unified strategic plan. The American plan was simple: invade Canada, use the navy to protect the coasts and interdict British reinforcements, and don't strike elsewhere. The British plans were ship troops to Canada, invade the Philippines, and attack American shipping around the world, making opportunistic raids against the American mainland as possible. Setting this during WW1 makes Britain's situation that much harder due to how thinly the British Empire was already stretched both militarily and economically. The British Empire had its hands very full already and American entry into the war against Britain would probably have resulted in general defeat for the UK, even if America wasn't explicitly aligned with the Central Powers.
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Sep 22, 2016 15:43
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Boiled Water posted:Gay black Wilhelm II question: What would've happened in a war of British Empire v. US of A? I mean the US can hardly be blockaded. The British probably send part of their fleet to attack the East Coast and don't accomplish much because they're poo poo at coastal bombardment and American coastal fortifications were one of the few things the Army had actually spent money on, assuming there isn't some big naval battle that gives both sides a very bloody nose (the U.S. Navy wasn't going to try to cut and run like Scheer did, even if it was the sensible thing to do). In the Pacific the Japanese take the Philippines and maybe Hawaii if they're lucky but eventually they get their poo poo punched in, same as in World War Two expect nowhere near as bloodily because they haven't gone completely pants-on-head militarist yet. Depending on the European situation it could easily escalate into an all-out war between the great powers if Germany sees an opportunity to get their Tirpitzplan on and cut the British fleet down to size. quote:I heard, on QI I believe, an anecdote about German naval officers who needed to pass through Suez (possibly on foot/with motorcar) and in order to blend in took of their emblems / German Navy insignia and passed for British Officers. Is there anything to this anecdote? I can't see this happening at all. Here's a Kraut officer's uniform:  Here's a Limey one:  They're similar, but not enough to easily pass for each other and that doesn't even get into if they're the same color or not. And that's not getting into the existence of tropical service variations of these uniforms, a matter of which I know nothing about because I have no reason to give a drat about it.
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Sep 22, 2016 15:51
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Cythereal posted:The US actually had a plan for this immediately after WW1: War Plan Red, codifying existing thoughts and plans into one unified strategic plan. The American plan was simple: invade Canada, use the navy to protect the coasts and interdict British reinforcements, and don't strike elsewhere. Contingency plans like this are always fascinating to read, and I have to think they are pretty fun to actually work on.
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Sep 22, 2016 16:00
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Boiled Water posted:Sorry I meant in context of WWI. Oh, that one's easy: Headshot. Allies lose. North America is Britain and France's main source of imported grain. An actively-hostile U.S.A. means no loving bread for the masses, which means Bad Things for Those In Charge.
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Sep 22, 2016 16:01
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ALL-PRO SEXMAN posted:I can't see this happening at all. I dunno, I can see the ordinary edgyptian taxicab driver not really being able to tell the difference. EDIT: VVV I can certainly see it more as a matter of luck than skill. I mean, not running into anyone who knows the German accent would be critical. Fangz fucked around with this message at 16:21 on Sep 22, 2016 |
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Sep 22, 2016 16:02
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Fangz posted:I dunno, I can see the ordinary edgyptian taxicab driver not really being able to tell the difference. It's true that your average Egyptian won't give a poo poo, but those hypothetical German naval officers are bound to end up in places where they'll be in the proximity of someone who does. Suez would've been full of patrols because it was a vital strategic point. I'm not saying it's impossible, it just sounds like one of those unconfirmable anecdotes that grow in the telling. Vincent Van Goatse fucked around with this message at 16:07 on Sep 22, 2016 |
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Sep 22, 2016 16:04
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WoodrowSkillson posted:Contingency plans like this are always fascinating to read, and I have to think they are pretty fun to actually work on. Red was one of a large series of contingency plans the US military drew up after WW1: Black: War with Germany Gray: War in the Caribbean (a second version postulated a war with Portugal) Brown: Uprising in the Philippines Tan: Military intervention in Cuba Red: War with Britain Orange: War with Japan Red-Orange: War with a British-Japanese alliance Yellow: War in China (specifically, a repeat of the Boxer uprising) Gold: War with France Green: War with Mexico Indigo: Occupation of Iceland (this one actually happened, albeit peacefully) Purple: War in South America, likely against Brazil or Argentina Violet: War in Central America White: Domestic uprising in the US (probably against a Communist revolt) Blue: Peacetime defenses
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Sep 22, 2016 16:22
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So were any of these seen as remotely plausible? I know war plans are drawn up as exercises all the time, frequently against allies/unlikely targets so that no more plausible nation gets ideas. PS> War of 1812 the Brits burned down the White House
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Sep 22, 2016 16:27
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But we lost at New Orleans. We also lost two pretty decent Wellington level generals as well.
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Sep 22, 2016 16:29
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Nebakenezzer posted:So were any of these seen as remotely plausible? I know war plans are drawn up as exercises all the time, frequently against allies/unlikely targets so that no more plausible nation gets ideas. From what I've read, the US military thought some of them were plausible at the time in the 1920s, particularly plans Orange (Japan), Yellow (China), Brown (Philippines), and White (internal). Two of them were put into action - the US did peacefully occupy Iceland (Indigo) during WW2, and elements of Plan White were used when putting down the Bonus Marchers.
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Sep 22, 2016 16:31
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Nebakenezzer posted:So were any of these seen as remotely plausible? I know war plans are drawn up as exercises all the time, frequently against allies/unlikely targets so that no more plausible nation gets ideas. Orange was probably the most realistic of the plans. I can't recommend Edward S. Miller's War Plan Orange highly enough. I tried to research the early versions of Plan Red while writing my doctoral dissertation but I didn't know exactly what to look for and I didn't have much time to find out, either. It's definitely something I plan to study in the future if I can ever get a goddamned job.
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Sep 22, 2016 16:31
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Cythereal posted:Red was one of a large series of contingency plans the US military drew up after WW1: Was there a plan for war with the Soviet Union? Seems a weird omission given how intense the post WWI red scare was. I remember reading about the Canadian contingency planning for the US invasion, they first had guys just drive around the northern US picking up maps from gas stations. The plan they came up with was to immediately invade while the US is mobilizing and blow as many bridges as possible to delay the US long enough for the Royal Navy to steam over and do, umm, err, something.
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Sep 22, 2016 16:36
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P-Mack posted:Was there a plan for war with the Soviet Union? Seems a weird omission given how intense the post WWI red scare was. Technically there was actual war with the Soviet Union, America took part in the Allied intervention in the Russian Civil War. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Shenkursk for example.
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Sep 22, 2016 16:44
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I ship War Plan White Red-Orange Gray
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Sep 22, 2016 16:50
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War Plan Salmon or Maybe It's a Peach Color
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Sep 22, 2016 16:57
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WoodrowSkillson posted:Contingency plans like this are always fascinating to read, and I have to think they are pretty fun to actually work on. Even just using publicly available information, making a contingency plan for an alien invasion of New Zealand was a lot of fun.
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Sep 22, 2016 16:56
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My favorite is the contigency plan on what to do if the girl scouts turn into a domestic terrorist organization
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Sep 22, 2016 17:04
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WoodrowSkillson posted:Contingency plans like this are always fascinating to read, and I have to think they are pretty fun to actually work on. They are in fact unbelievably tedious and painful. Like, imagine the most obnoxious alt-hist discussion we have in this thread, and then populate it with a bunch of blowhards who are deliberately no longer constrained by either reality or what is even a reasonable possibility.
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Sep 22, 2016 17:08
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bewbies posted:They are in fact unbelievably tedious and painful. thats better than my day job
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Sep 22, 2016 17:11
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bewbies posted:They are in fact unbelievably tedious and painful. War Plan Orange was a twenty+ year argument between two factions on the basics of the strategy. Actually living it must be exhausting.
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Sep 22, 2016 17:27
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did they ever even make a contingency plan for if the contingency planners turn out to be the enemy? makes you think
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Sep 22, 2016 17:33
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ALL-PRO SEXMAN posted:I can't see this happening at all. There's a bigger difference - the RN uniform you've got there is actually a Royal Naval Reserve one (with the wavy lines of cuff braid). The proper RN one had the executive curl (or 'Elliott's Eye') on the top line while the KM, like many continental navies, used plain stripes like the USN does. So while the cut and style of the uniforms would be very similar you couldn't simply unpin your cap badge and medal ribbons and pass as an RN officer to anyone remotely familiar with the uniform.
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Sep 22, 2016 17:32
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ALL-PRO SEXMAN posted:Speaking of, here's Admiral Benson. Why do you have a picture of Sam Elliot there?
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Sep 22, 2016 17:45
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Zamboni Apocalypse posted:Why do you have a picture of Sam Elliot there? That's totally Julian Glover. 
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