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ShineDog posted:I just can't understand how anyone can enjoy spending their viewing time watching that loving take on Anakin. It may not be an accident that he's an arrogant, creepy, petulant abusic gently caress, but it doesn't make for enjoyable screen time, and it certainly doesn't make for a compelling tragedy when he falls from grace. He starts out a terrible shithead and he ends up a shithead. To be clear you are calling a 7 year old slave a "terrible shithead?" The whole point of the trilogy is that Anakin, along with Shmi is basically the only purely good character and who is taken advantage of from the first day of his life to the last with increasingly dire results. If you can't have sympathy for a child born into slavery (with an explosive embedded in his skull no less!) in an arid wasteland and then taken from his only family member under dubious circumstances and recruited into an army of child soldiers, and then told that he's not allowed to use the powers they've endowed him with to save his mother or wife from certain death then I dunno. I don't expect anyone to be particularly taken with Hayden Christensen's performance but if you don't find the character sympathetic then no wonder you hate the prequels- you have an empathy problem. I mean his preoccupation as a small child was the abolition of slavery, and you claim that you don't see "good" in him? Ok! Jewmanji fucked around with this message at 01:05 on Sep 29, 2016 |
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Sep 29, 2016 01:01
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Jewmanji posted:To be clear you are calling a 7 year old slave a "terrible shithead?" The whole point of the trilogy is that Anakin, along with Shmi is basically the only purely good character and who is taken advantage of from the first day of his life to the last with increasingly dire results. If you can't have sympathy for a child born a slave (with an explosive embedded in his skull!) in an arid wasteland and then taken from his only family member under dubious circumstances and recruited into an army of child soldiers, and then told that he's not allowed to use the powers they've endowed him with to save his mother or wife from certain death then I dunno. To be fair, I barely even think of Ep1 Anakin as the same character, I'm specifically thinking of Hayden. And again, I'm not suggesting that George wasn't aware of what he was doing, I'm saying "By god this character is a weird and unpleasant little creep and I don't want to spend any time with him" - Maybe the plot justifies him being a weird and unpleasant little creep, but, well, I don't wanna watch it.
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Sep 29, 2016 01:04
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Red posted:My biggest gripe is that the films just show us character types that move from point A to point B. Characters don't struggle with emotion, or grow across an arc. Haha, what? Red posted:At no point did I feel tension, or worry for the characters' fate. I just had to make it through the films. This one I can somewhat see, but that's an issue with all prequels. Things have to end up a certain way no matter what, and it robs the story of some tension. Although hands-down one of my favorite sequences in the prequels is the ending to ROTS where everything is set up for A New Hope and beyond. Seeing everything fall into place is just magical.
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Sep 29, 2016 01:04
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ShineDog posted:To be fair, I barely even think of Ep1 Anakin as the same character, I'm specifically thinking of Hayden. Well sure if you never think about TPM then the character makes no sense at all.
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Sep 29, 2016 01:06
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ShineDog posted:And again, I'm not suggesting that George wasn't aware of what he was doing, I'm saying "By god this character is a weird and unpleasant little creep and I don't want to spend any time with him" - Maybe the plot justifies him being a weird and unpleasant little creep, but, well, I don't wanna watch it. What is an example of a tragedy that you enjoyed watching?
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Sep 29, 2016 01:06
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Serf posted:So far there have been 9 Star Wars films: the OT, the PT, the Clone Wars movie, TFA and Rogue One ( included because unless the world ends soon this one is in the can). The Clone Wars movie is basically an extended animation test that got a theatrical release for some reason. You can basically see where the episode breaks would've gone had it been released on television as initially planned. I mean, arguing about what is or is not a film is a path that leads nowhere interesting, but I think in this case it's clear we're only gonna be up to eight by the end of this year.
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Sep 29, 2016 01:11
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Cheesus posted:Would this help? This is amazing, by the way.
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Sep 29, 2016 01:13
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Bongo Bill posted:The Clone Wars movie is basically an extended animation test that got a theatrical release for some reason. You can basically see where the episode breaks would've gone had it been released on television as initially planned. Did the ewok movies get a theatrical release? Because then we'd be at what, 11 Star Wars movies?
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Sep 29, 2016 01:15
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There are 13 star wars movies, including the Holiday Special and People v. George Lucas gently caress it, 16 including the plinkett reviews
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Sep 29, 2016 01:22
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A young Jedi named Hayden Christensen, who was a pupil of mine until he turned to evil, helped the Empire hunt down and destroy the Jedi knights. He betrayed and murdered the slave boy Anakin Skywalker.Cheesus posted:Would this help? These are absolutely incredible.
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Sep 29, 2016 01:24
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Phi230 posted:There are 13 star wars movies, including the Holiday Special and People v. George Lucas Hey, now you're getting it!
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Sep 29, 2016 01:23
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euphronius posted:Well duh everyone knows they are bad. I know you are joking but I was just flipping through channels the other night and saw The Phantom Menace on TBS apropos of nothing and checked it out. The awful cable guide reviewed it at three out of four stars, just slightly worse than Eberts 3.5 out of four stars. There's the highest and lowest of Film criticism right there saying TPM is pretty good. Regarding the Clone Wars chat I think it's really interesting that you can really clearly see Lucas's influence when he gets a lot more involved beginning with the second season. The show becomes a lot more visually focused and really starts doing some fun compositions and starts drawing on some very imaginative imagery. Is there was a place with screenshots similar to that collection of screen grabs from the mainline films? I can think of a bunch of shots off the top of my head that are basically moviefight worthy.
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Sep 29, 2016 01:24
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Phi230 posted:There are 13 star wars movies, including the Holiday Special and People v. George Lucas
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Sep 29, 2016 01:29
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Clone Wars is good. I'm a bit envious of kids who got to grow up watching it. I'm way behind on Rebels, though. Gotta catch up.Phi230 posted:There are 13 star wars movies, including the Holiday Special and People v. George Lucas If you're not counting Blackstar Warrior then you're going about this all wrong.
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Sep 29, 2016 01:30
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Jewmanji posted:Well sure if you never think about TPM then the character makes no sense at all. Again, I don't think he makes no sense, but I do not find him compelling in the least. Jake Lloyd Anakin is terrible too, of course. He may be the least lovable child ever put on film, just a real crap lil actor. Bless him. ShineDog fucked around with this message at 01:34 on Sep 29, 2016 |
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Sep 29, 2016 01:30
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Eh, he was nowhere near as bad as that nobody child actor from Jingle All The Way.
Jewmanji fucked around with this message at 02:00 on Sep 29, 2016 |
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Sep 29, 2016 01:38
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Jewmanji posted:Eh, he was nowhere near as bad that nobody child actor from Jingle All The Way. Oh gosh yes.
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Sep 29, 2016 01:57
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The only star wars canon that matters to me are the made for t.v. ewok movies. Wilford Brimley is part of the star wars universe, goddamnit.
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Sep 29, 2016 02:16
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I can't understand how anybody could watch prequels in which a character who goes on to betray and murder a whole lot of people (including his best friend!) has negative personality traits all along. It doesn't make sense!
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Sep 29, 2016 02:32
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homullus posted:I can't understand how anybody could watch prequels in which a character who goes on to betray and murder a whole lot of people (including his best friend!) has negative personality traits all along. It doesn't make sense! we are told in the OT that anakin was a hero, a true knight, and a cool guy
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Sep 29, 2016 03:06
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Phi230 posted:we are told in the OT that anakin was a hero, a true knight, and a cool guy We are told in the OT that Obi-Wan told Luke that Anakin was a hero, a true knight, and a cool guy. We are also told in the OT that Obi-Wan is a liar.
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Sep 29, 2016 03:15
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G-III posted:The only star wars canon that matters to me are the made for t.v. ewok movies. Wilford Brimley is part of the star wars universe, goddamnit. I haven't seen them in forever - was the old Droids cartoon any good? The Holiday Special Boba Fett cartoon was neat, I remember that much. I haven't seen the Ewok flicks since they originally aired. I'd assume they're awful, but I ate that stuff up as a kid.
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Sep 29, 2016 04:28
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Jewmanji posted:To be clear you are calling a 7 year old slave a "terrible shithead?" Well, what would you call someone who creates life for the singular purpose of brutal enslavement?
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Sep 29, 2016 04:37
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euphronius posted:I think it is funny though that Lucas leaves one mystery completely unsolved in his film noir movie : who was Sifo Dyas? Totally ignored by obi wan and Yoda. Episode III was supposed to have gone into it a little more but Lucas decided there wasn't enough time and there were more important things to deal with. I don't think it really went unexplained, though. I think it's pretty obvious just from Episode II who he is: He's a former member of the Jedi Council who died under mysterious and unconfirmable circumstances about ten years ago. Unbeknownst to the Jedi, he was actually murdered by the Sith and his identity used to order a clone army from the Kaminoans. TCW goes into the full story a bit more, but the only really substantive details it adds to our knowledge are that Sifo-Dyas was constantly having premonitions of a coming war and as a result was relentlessly urging the Jedi Council to raise an army to defend the Republic--for which reasons he was booted off the Jedi Council shortly before his disappearance and presumed death during a mission to Felucia, right before the events of Episode I. Obviously, Dooku would have been aware of all these details and known it would have made Sifo-Dyas the perfect patsy to pin the clone army on. No wonder the Jedi had little trouble believing the army was Sifo-Dyas's doing, despite all the warning signs. Phi230 posted:we are told in the OT that anakin was a hero, a true knight, and a cool guy He was. The OT also shows us that he nonetheless became the sadistic, mass-murdering enforcer of a genocidal dictator. Now, how did that happen, I wonder? For someone who claims to love the original movies so much, you sure don't seem to have thought about them very much.
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Sep 29, 2016 04:47
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Phi230 posted:we are told in the OT that anakin was a hero, a true knight, and a cool guy
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Sep 29, 2016 05:27
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Ravenfood posted:Why do you keep believing Obi-wan "from a certain point of view" Kenobi? He was abducted from his parents and raised in a religious cult since childhood, so please, give Phi230 some understanding
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Sep 29, 2016 05:36
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To add to Sifo-Dyas chat a little bit, it's true that he was originally just going to be an alias for Sidious (Sido-Dyas). But a typo switched a d to an f, and George ran with it and made Sifo-Dyas a real Jedi. He realized that having the Jedi accept the story that someone they had never heard of ordered the clone army made them look a little too stupid.
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Sep 29, 2016 06:49
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Cheesus posted:Would this help? Everything on this account is gold.
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Sep 29, 2016 07:36
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That instragram makes this whole thread worthwhile. Goddamn.
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Sep 29, 2016 11:16
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ShineDog posted:I just can't understand how anyone can enjoy spending their viewing time watching that loving take on Anakin. Same but for the cartoons version of Anakin where he's a cool guy badass with healthy relationships and close friends.
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Sep 29, 2016 12:30
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I can't believe it was tezzor Truly shocking
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Sep 29, 2016 13:56
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Cnut the Great posted:TCW goes into the full story a bit more, but the only really substantive details it adds to our knowledge are that Sifo-Dyas was constantly having premonitions of a coming war and as a result was relentlessly urging the Jedi Council to raise an army to defend the Republic--for which reasons he was booted off the Jedi Council shortly before his disappearance and presumed death during a mission to Felucia, right before the events of Episode I. Obviously, Dooku would have been aware of all these details and known it would have made Sifo-Dyas the perfect patsy to pin the clone army on. No wonder the Jedi had little trouble believing the army was Sifo-Dyas's doing, despite all the warning signs. Am I wrong, or do I remember the Kaminoans being actively part of the scam? Ahsoka went to Kamino to help treat a clone trooper and found out some poo poo was going on. Edit: Were they putting implants in the troopers to recognize Palpatine's commands? I can't remember.
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Sep 29, 2016 14:41
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El Burbo posted:I can't believe it was tezzor Did Lucas kill his family or something?
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Sep 29, 2016 14:57
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Red posted:Am I wrong, or do I remember the Kaminoans being actively part of the scam? Ahsoka went to Kamino to help treat a clone trooper and found out some poo poo was going on. Nobody on Kamino was aware that Tyranus was Dooku, but if the Prime Minister was, he wouldn't have cared, since even a sham war is money in his people's pockets. It was a secret that Tyranus was still in contact with the Prime Minister of that planet, and the implant that could compel obedience to a finite set of preprogrammed "contingency" orders (most of which were camouflage for Order 66) was kept a secret for "security" purposes. One clone discovered the conspiracy when the implant activated early in another, and he was made a pariah and silenced trying to investigate and reveal it. It owned.
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Sep 29, 2016 15:26
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Red posted:Am I wrong, or do I remember the Kaminoans being actively part of the scam? Ahsoka went to Kamino to help treat a clone trooper and found out some poo poo was going on. Ahsoka wasn't involved but yeah there was an entire arc about Order 66. The Sith had implants put in the clones' brains that would force them to obey Order 66 when the time came. The Kaminoans apparently didn't know the true purpose behind the implants though--they thought they were just a contingency plan for if any Jedi ever went rogue, as several actually ended up doing during the war. It's revealed that Dooku makes secret, periodic contact with the Kaminoans in his guise as Tyranus (via hologram and with his face and voice obscured, à la Sidious), claiming to speak for his late "partner" Sifo-Dyas, and that's the story he tells them. Basically, the Kaminoans are ultimately following (what they think are) secret orders originating from Sifo-Dyas, and they believe that it was Sifo-Dyas's wish that these orders be kept from the Jedi Council. Among these secret orders are the Order 66 implant protocols. However, the Kaminoans still seem to think they're acting in the best interests of the Jedi. There's some really subtle hints in one episode (at least as I interpret them) that indicate that the chief Kaminoan scientist at least might suspect who Tyranus really is and what's really going on, but if she does she clearly doesn't care. The rest of the Kaminoans, including the prime minister, definitely seem to be in the dark. I guess it's better for the Sith if absolutely no one else knows what's really going on, not even their co-conspirators.
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Sep 29, 2016 15:42
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The Kaminoans are in the cloning business and I never got the sense that they really give a poo poo about how the clones will be used. They're like hey, our client wants these implants, our client gets the implants.
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Sep 29, 2016 15:59
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Is Kamino even a part of the Republic? They're literally off the map.
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Sep 29, 2016 16:14
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Schwarzwald posted:Is Kamino even a part of the Republic? They're literally off the map. They're independent and secretive, only aligned with the Republic because of their business dealings.
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Sep 29, 2016 16:31
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Schwarzwald posted:Is Kamino even a part of the Republic? They're literally off the map. They weren't initially (I mean, using normal channels within the Republic, Obi-Wan can't even find out if Kamino exists or not), but TCW shows that after handing the army over to the Republic they were given a representative in the Senate. Her name is Halle Burtoni:  Yet another lethal burn on the Bush administration....I guess? Cnut the Great fucked around with this message at 16:36 on Sep 29, 2016 |
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Sep 29, 2016 16:33
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Bongo Bill posted:We are told in the OT that Obi-Wan told Luke that Anakin was a hero, a true knight, and a cool guy. We are also told in the OT that Obi-Wan is a liar. Ok this is a fair point, but then why is it that Obi Wan's statements of fondness for Anakin are taken at face value? If Obi Wan's credibility is so shot after we know he's lied why are we supposed to trust him at all?
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Sep 29, 2016 16:57
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