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By 3rd Edition rules it adds up directly.
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Oct 2, 2016 00:34
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Kavak posted:By 3rd Edition rules it adds up directly. The rogue 2's +1 only adds onto the first swing making it +7/+1, or does it add as if I was reaching the next tier for a +7/+2?
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Oct 2, 2016 00:46
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Your bonus for your second attack is always five less than your primary, so +7/+2.
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Oct 2, 2016 00:50
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LibbyM posted:This is a Neverwinter Nights question, which I know isn't infinity engine, but this thread is the most likely to have people who know about it. What happens with your base attack bonus when you multiclass? I have a level 6 ranger, which means my base attack bonus is currently +6/+1. If I multiclass into rogue does my base attack bonus stop increasing until my rogue gets to a level at which they'd start getting more BAB than my ranger left off on, or does it add on top? An example for what I'm asking: a level 2 rogue would normally have +1 BAB, so would a ranger6/rogue2 have +6/+1, +7/+1, or +7/+2? If memory serves, it should add up and you should have +7/+2. As a rule, I believe BAB always affects all your attack rolls equally, so you'd never have a situation where you could get a base attack bonus of +7/+1. It would always be +7/+2. A +1 to BAB means both of your attack dice get a +1, and at BAB 6, 11, and 16 you will always get a new attack die. http://nwn.wikia.com/wiki/Base_attack_bonus Basically your BAB will always be something that's listed on this table.
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Oct 2, 2016 00:52
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Cool, thanks for the help guys.
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Oct 2, 2016 00:52
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Rappaport posted:
 "A simple task" indeed  Those bears though. Just ran for the border.
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Oct 2, 2016 02:20
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Kavak posted:Thank you! The all caster party works, but the Bard spell selection is pretty limited in this. If you want to avoid the Bard, replacing it with a second Sorcerer and giving the Wizard a Rogue level should work as well, at least if it's a Human. Never have more than one Wizard, you don't get enough good scrolls. Clerics should never be evil, because evil Clerics can't transform their spells to healing. Monks are dog poo poo. Minimizing Rogue levels is also still a thing, since you only really need to worry about traps and locks (and searching for them) and the rest of their skills are nearly useless. e: And don't plan on taking too many Fighter levels, there are only a few actually useful bonus feats for them. If you multi-class casters (especially Wizards and Sorcerers), limit it to a few levels. Clerics taking 4 levels in any warrior classes end up with an extra attack per round eventually, so that's nice, but shouldn't take more. On the other hand, with non-spellcasting classes you can mix and match however you please as long as you avoid XP penalties. A single level of Ranger can be pretty nice to have. Multi-classes should always start out as the class that gives the most skill points because they're multiplied at level 1. Spellcasters need to max out Concentration. The Improved Initiative feat doesn't work. Wizard Styles fucked around with this message at 09:55 on Oct 2, 2016 |
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Oct 2, 2016 09:49
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Wizard Styles posted:Never have more than one Wizard, you don't get enough good scrolls. Sounds like they forgot the 3rd edition rule that Wizards get 2 free spells every oh god I am arguing in favor of caster supremacy  quote:The Improved Initiative feat doesn't work. Now he tells me. That's getting switched out. I basically followed your suggestion, with the silly, self imposed gimmick of nobody being the same race or alignment and an obsessive need to pass all dialogue skill checks. Human Wizard Halfling Sorcerer Aasimar Paladin (Will become Morninglord of Lathander at level 5) Tiefling Rogue/Bard (Rogue levels will continue until Intimidate reaches the correct ranks. Thankfully Bluff is a Bard skill) Dwarf Cleric of Tempus Half-Elf Monk (Immediately multiclassing into Druid based on suggestion I saw elsewhere- I think it has something to do with the Wisdom bonus to AC applying while shifted)
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Oct 2, 2016 12:05
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Re the scrapped original plans for Imoen and plans for ToB, I'm a moderator at one of the major modding community sites so I went back into the site archives and talked with one of the other staff members who was around back in the early days. What the devs said about the original plans for BG2 and ToB/BG3 seems to boil down to this, so take this all with a grain of salt: 1. You were indeed never supposed to reunite with Imoen in Shadows of Amn. You were supposed to find her still catatonic until she intervened during the fight with Irenicus in Spellhold - potentially (the devs apparently never decided if this should happen then, or keep it as a surprise for later) going Slayer to occupy Irenicus and buy you time to get out. You would then have fought the Slayer in Suldanessellar at the gates of the palace, and only after defeating it would it revert to Imoen, dying in your arms. 2. Haer'Dalis and Valygar were supposed to be romance options for female PCs but were cut due to time and the developers believed that women/guys who would play as women would be a very niche audience for this Dungeons and Dragons role-playing game on the PC. Black Isle was very surprised at the game's very positive reception by women and substantial female fanbase. Haer'Dalis was also briefly floated as a bisexual romance but that idea never went anywhere. 3. There's a plot point in Spellhold where you're trapped in the dream spell and Bhaal freaks out about the Imoen presence and how it's helping you fight him - specifically commenting that you're "strange among your kin." This was meant to be the start of the central plot thread in BG3/ToB: uniquely among the Bhaalspawn, you are capable of genuinely fighting your heritage and aren't secretly under Bhaal's sway like every other Bhaalspawn is. Sarevok and the Five were supposed to be unwittingly controlled by Bhaal, and you alone are not. 4. BG3 was supposed to be about Bhaal deciding it's time and activating all the Bhaalspawn, leading to chaos. Melissan was supposed to introduce herself to you as an archmage who would be able to trap the essences of slain Bhaalspawn and keep them from rejoining Bhaal. Black Isle didn't think players were going to trust her, but the notion was conceived of as either you help her, or every Bhaalspawn you slay feeds Bhaal's power as he grows stronger and approaches resurrection. 5. The pocket plane was conceived of as the endgame dungeon you'd reach once all the other Bhaalspawn were dead, leaving just you, Melissan, and Bhaal (and your party). The Solar would only have cropped up then, guiding you through a series of trials inside your own soul until you faced Bhaal himself as the personification of your taint and either absorbed him or destroyed him. 6. This would have lead to the Throne of Bhaal where Amelyssan has been gathering the essence of all the Bhaalspawn you've slain and has taken it for herself.
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Oct 2, 2016 15:51
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Wizard Styles posted:Actual advice for IWD2: I'm going to disagree strenuously with this. Having someone take one level of rogue (For the level 1 skill multiplier) and then level straight as a bard works very well as a support character. Bards don't need scrolls and some of their songs are fantastic. I wouldn't recommend this in a 4-man party, but since this game allows six bards are the best "6th-man", to steal a basketball term, you can find. The rest of your advice I agree with apart from the fact that I like having a single-class Lathander cleric because they get fantastic heals and some nasty fire-based nukes and I wouldn't want to delay that by dipping on other classes. Also, apparently, taking a lot of classes with an ECL penalty actually gets you to higher levels eventually because of the bonus experience for being slightly underlevelled much of the game. I haven't tested this, but I am informed that it is so. Cythereal posted:How BG3 should have been This sounds fantastic and I am gutted that this wasn't what the public saw. On a similar note, my favourite game of all time is the original Toe Jam and Earl on the Genesis, and I recently found out that the sequel was going to be a bigger, better version of an incredible game... but the bean-counters at Sega didn't think that it would sell well, so they turned it into a 2d platformer which wasn't terribly good because those were easily marketable at the time.
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Oct 2, 2016 17:44
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We don't actually disagree about anything. Bards are a decent class, it's just that their limited spell selection can really make you wish you just had another Sorcerer and could simply take whatever sometimes. And I don't think I've ever taken Fighter or Paladin levels with Clerics myself. It's going to be an extra attack at a lot of levels, but I also don't like delaying spell progression. I used a Cleric of Mask as my tank in my all caster party playthrough, which gets some good domain spells for this, which I wanted to unlock as soon as possible. It's really a matter of personal preference imo. e: I'm sad we got ToB instead of the originally planned BG3, but having to fight Imoen for her to tragically die in your arms would have been lame. I always thought Imoen dying, be it in Spellhold or Suldanessalar, would have been a cheap shot. I'm glad that didn't happen. Wizard Styles fucked around with this message at 21:47 on Oct 2, 2016 |
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Oct 2, 2016 21:43
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Wizard Styles posted:e: I'm sad we got ToB instead of the originally planned BG3, but having to fight Imoen for her to tragically die in your arms would have been lame. I always thought Imoen dying, be it in Spellhold or Suldanessalar, would have been a cheap shot. I'm glad that didn't happen. For what it's worth, it sounds like the Black Isle staff actively disliked Imoen and only included her in BG2 at all because of how popular she was with the fans.
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Oct 2, 2016 22:36
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Cythereal posted:For what it's worth, it sounds like the Black Isle staff actively disliked Imoen and only included her in BG2 at all because of how popular she was with the fans. They could have avoided all of this by only giving her 16 intelligence and making her ineligible for dual classing, I remember the official Bioware forums back in the day were all about powergaming by getting her up to 5 or 6 in thief to get lock picking and find traps as high as you needed, buying a poo poo ton of spells, then dismiss everyone else in the party and use scrolls to level her back up. To the point they'd recommend buying multiple copies to relearn because you could right click on a spell in your library to forget it. (Probably should have given her 15 intelligence, since anyone who'd do that wouldn't balk at using the stat tome on her).
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Oct 2, 2016 22:46
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Skwirl posted:They could have avoided all of this by only giving her 16 intelligence and making her ineligible for dual classing, I remember the official Bioware forums back in the day were all about powergaming by getting her up to 5 or 6 in thief to get lock picking and find traps as high as you needed, buying a poo poo ton of spells, then dismiss everyone else in the party and use scrolls to level her back up. To the point they'd recommend buying multiple copies to relearn because you could right click on a spell in your library to forget it. ??? In the original Baldur's Gate memorizing spells didn't give you xp.
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Oct 2, 2016 22:48
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Mzbundifund posted:??? Really? I must be conflating poo poo from early versions of tutu. I do remember a lot of talk about when to dual Imoen when the base game was all that existed, and fixes for tutu to decrease spell memorization xp, but even the fixes didn't eliminate it completely.
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Oct 2, 2016 22:53
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It was Tutu that had normal lockpicking and scroll learning rewards on first release. Thieves and Mages could get to level 3 before leaving Candlekeep. BG1 gave no experience for either.
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Oct 2, 2016 23:32
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Wizard Styles posted:I'm sad we got ToB instead of the originally planned BG3, but having to fight Imoen for her to tragically die in your arms would have been lame. I always thought Imoen dying, be it in Spellhold or Suldanessalar, would have been a cheap shot. I'm glad that didn't happen. Me too. It would've wrecked me emotionally and probably been an early "endings of Mass Effect III" in terms of fan reception- at least it would've been easier to mod. From an RP perspective it also makes the entire game pointless- if all that comes out of pursuing Irenicus is tragedy, why would I ever replay the game? Why not just hang around Amn gathering power and XP or just take a boat back to Baldur's Gate? Imoen's already dead and I want my soul to stay attached. It definitely would've been a better game, but that BG III concept doesn't sound that good across the board. The essence-control thing sounds kind of dumb and would've needed to be reworked for Imoen (Maybe you help her defeat it, or maybe Lesser Bhaalspawn can only be influenced rather than controlled by it and she's the only one of consequence). And the pocket plane as endgame dungeon just sounds like it would be the end of BG II all over again. Was this all concept phase or was some of it intended for the expansion but got cut? Cythereal posted:For what it's worth, it sounds like the Black Isle staff actively disliked Imoen and only included her in BG2 at all because of how popular she was with the fans. Didn't her voice actress object to her treatment and death as well?
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Oct 3, 2016 06:05
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Suspicious posted:Mendas's girlfriend is indeed labeled Loup Garou but she's just as easy to kill as any werewolf. Every time I play the game I try to see if my melee characters wielding cold iron weapons can reach her before she dies. They never do. Suspicious posted:This is a new change because he definitely wasn't in early January in BG1EE, or in any other version of the game. BG1 is (well, was) static as gently caress. Level 1 or 10, every encounter is the same. Suspicious posted:BG2 adjusts encounters based on your experience though. BG1 didn't do so until recently. Quoting myself like a dork from way back but In case anyone still cares, I just went through BG1:EE on core difficulty again and there was no enemy scaling whatsoever. Werewolf island didn't have any more greater wolfweres at the XP cap. So it was either patched out, or it's a difficulty greater than core thing.
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Oct 3, 2016 06:24
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Kavak posted:Me too. It would've wrecked me emotionally and probably been an early "endings of Mass Effect III" in terms of fan reception- at least it would've been easier to mod. From an RP perspective it also makes the entire game pointless- if all that comes out of pursuing Irenicus is tragedy, why would I ever replay the game? Why not just hang around Amn gathering power and XP or just take a boat back to Baldur's Gate? Imoen's already dead and I want my soul to stay attached.
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Oct 3, 2016 06:27
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Skwirl posted:I don't know, a lot of people replayed Final Fantasy 7, and you can't even try out different classes really in that one. Aerith's death was a lot less bullshit and better written. And you do destroy Sephiroth/JENOVA and save the world in the end.
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Oct 3, 2016 06:30
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Aeris had to die for the world to be saved, so it's easier to accept. Imoen's death would have been pretty pointless and gratuitous.
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Oct 3, 2016 06:38
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I never thought I'd see the day that FF7 was compared to 2.5 AD&D
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Oct 3, 2016 07:13
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The JRPG's ancient roots are from D&D, after all.
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Oct 3, 2016 07:15
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Cythereal posted:6. This would have lead to the Throne of Bhaal where Amelyssan has been gathering the essence of all the Bhaalspawn you've slain and has taken it for herself.
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Oct 3, 2016 09:50
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Oy gevalt, I'm finally playing the first BGEE. I forgot how absolutely brutal 2nd Ed. Lowbie combat to the poor sods I control... if a stray arrow connects, or if it's windy and a stiff breeze touches anyone. When I become a god I'm going to punch arrows. And wind. 
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Oct 3, 2016 10:19
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Kavak posted:The JRPG's ancient roots are from D&D, after all. A lot of things about Final Fantasy 1, especially monsters, are just D&D with the serial numbers filed off. It even has the same magic system with levels of spells and limited uses per day instead of the usual MP.  In the NES version this original character do not steal is called a Sorcerer, in Japanese and in later remakes it's just straight up Mindflayer. Or like oh no that huge floating eyeball is not a Beholder at all, it's an Evil Eye. Completely different!
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Oct 3, 2016 10:32
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meristem posted:I was probably rare among the players, but I used to think, back when I played, that Throne of Bhaal would have been perfectly fine if it only delayed the action by a couple of years (so that it didn't start immediately after Shadows of Amn) and didn't retcon the story of the player's mother. All else is fine, if narratively a bit thin. Starting right after SoA was also a retcon- you leave Suldanessellar in the ending, then the expansion turns right around and says you stayed until they forced you out. loving ungrateful elves... I don't know why they changed the story of the PC's mother- were they trying to establish a reason the PC is "special" and thought it was okay because comparatively fewer people played BG I? It also doesn't make a lot of sense- why were they killing the Bhaalspawn then? Why send that essence back to him before he even died?
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Oct 3, 2016 10:39
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Wait, did they gently caress up the timeline that badly? I always thought the sacrifices happened in the first few years after Bhaal died. Kavak posted:It definitely would've been a better game, but that BG III concept doesn't sound that good across the board. The essence-control thing sounds kind of dumb and would've needed to be reworked for Imoen (Maybe you help her defeat it, or maybe Lesser Bhaalspawn can only be influenced rather than controlled by it and she's the only one of consequence). And the pocket plane as endgame dungeon just sounds like it would be the end of BG II all over again. Was this all concept phase or was some of it intended for the expansion but got cut? I was thinking more about the setup of having both Amelyssan and Bhaal as villains in their own right, which would give a better reason to ever work with Melissan. Because in ToB as it is, Melissan isn't integrated into the plot well, and Bhaal is pretty much entirely passive.
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Oct 3, 2016 11:05
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Kavak posted:don't know why they changed the story of the PC's mother- were they trying to establish a reason the PC is "special" and thought it was okay because comparatively fewer people played BG I? It also doesn't make a lot of sense- why were they killing the Bhaalspawn then? Why send that essence back to him before he even died? Mostly, I think, whoever wrote this tried (rather clumsily) to make you pity Sarevok, because of that whole 'redemption' thing the expansion had going on. (Of course, in order to write this scene, they also retconned Sarevok's mother. In BG1, part of Sarevok's rationale for killing Rieltar was revenge for Rieltar killing his mother after he suspected her of cheating when Sarevok turned out not to be his natural son. I had enjoyed this little detail.)
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Oct 3, 2016 11:29
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Wizard Styles posted:Wait, did they gently caress up the timeline that badly? Charname is about 20 and is implied to be a baby or really little when Gorion rescued them, and Imoen came to Candlekeep right around the Time of Troubles after they'd been there for some time, so that incident was definitely when Bhaal was still kicking. quote:Yeah, you're right, as an overall draft it doesn't sound that great. I think it'd be impossible for players to not think she'd backstab them and use the essence at some point and try to stop that, so they'd either have to hammer home the "no choice" thing and show that she actually is stopping the essence from getting to Bhaal and/or give her the same cutscene invulnerability that she has in ToB. Even if they could work her in better she'd still be lame as the final boss. I still think she should've been a loyal worshipper, possibly one of many carrying out purges across the Realms (Bhaal's worshiped as far off as Thay, IIRC, and yet somehow the majority of Bhaalspawn get herded to the southwest?) meristem posted:Melodrama. drat, that makes it even worse. I'm too lazy to compare the credits, did the writing staff change between SoA and ToB? EDIT: I'm running into an annoying glitch in ID II. My female halfling sorcerer is showing up as a male dwarf, and it keeps happening in character creation. My first attempt to fix this has already corrupted a save game. Is there anything I can do but Ctrl-7 her into the right model every time I load the game? Kavak fucked around with this message at 12:17 on Oct 3, 2016 |
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Oct 3, 2016 11:53
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Kavak posted:EDIT: I'm running into an annoying glitch in ID II. My female halfling sorcerer is showing up as a male dwarf, and it keeps happening in character creation. My first attempt to fix this has already corrupted a save game. Is there anything I can do but Ctrl-7 her into the right model every time I load the game? 1 Pixel Productions didn't work with IWD2 due to the engine having undergone a lot of weird changes compared to the other IE games for no apparent reason last time I checked. But I think that was several years ago. Maybe it works now.
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Oct 3, 2016 12:59
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Kavak posted:Was this all concept phase or was some of it intended for the expansion but got cut? Most of it sounds like it was just concept phase, and that they'd produced very little (mostly the Yaga-Shura arc and Watcher's Keep) when orders came down to chop it down from a full sequel to just an expansion and a small-ish one at that.
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Oct 3, 2016 13:18
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Cythereal posted:Most of it sounds like it was just concept phase, and that they'd produced very little (mostly the Yaga-Shura arc and Watcher's Keep) when orders came down to chop it down from a full sequel to just an expansion and a small-ish one at that. Watcher's Keep feels like it was intended for a Tales of the Sword Coast-style expansion for Shadows of Amn, possibly including a post-game option. Wizard Styles posted:I had the same problem and used DaleKeeper to change the sprite. The game would turn her back into the default bald bearded dwarf during cutscenes, though. So not really a permanent solution, either. I'll try both of those, thank you.
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Oct 3, 2016 13:45
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The AD&D system in Icewind Dale is really making me appreciate the gently caress out of the 3rd edition rules in NWN.
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Oct 3, 2016 15:06
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2e AD&D was the first D&D ruleset I learned so it is clearly the best because of nostalgia. Truth be told, there are some things from AD&D that I wish newer editions had kept but yeah, 3e made things a lot more accessible and introduced a lot of new people to D&D and until things got bloated, the rules made a lot more sense.
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Oct 3, 2016 16:46
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I never played tabletop D&D, but I played the Infinity Engine and Neverwinter Nights games extensively. I didn't mind the math wonkiness of the Infinity Engine games (because it didn't matter: the games depend on spell selection and buffs/debuffs, not calculating what you need to roll), but something I found disappointing is how little character development mattered. Outside of dexterity and constitution, none of the stats were really important. High intelligence wasn't even that important to mages. Planescape:Torment improved this a bit, because it had lots of stat checks in conversations(although it became reversed, as Wisdom became the supreme stat.) In some ways, the Infinity Engine design was kind of regressive. Fallout was contemporaneous to the games, and featured things like noncombat stat effects and dialog checks. Maybe its a Bioware thing: Icewind Dale, the linear dungeon crawler in the series, did this a lot more than Baldur's Gate.
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Oct 3, 2016 17:47
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Strength is pretty important, and you need high Intelligence to cast higher level spells (I think a mod may have turned that feature back on, though). Mental attributes are super-dumpable with thieves and warriors, though I think that's 2nd Edition's fault- I think 3rd Edition was trying to make dump stats less of a thing with the skill system, the Will Save, etc. The lack of attribute checks is probably just a design philosophy thing- KOTOR was all skill check based, IIRC.
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Oct 3, 2016 18:03
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Intelligence only matters for scribing spells in base BG/BG2/IWD. In the EEs you can't transcribe level 9 spells with less than 18 Int. This mechanic can entirely be circumvented by Int-buffing potions, though.
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Oct 3, 2016 20:22
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Wizard Styles posted:Intelligence only matters for scribing spells in base BG/BG2/IWD. In the EEs you can't transcribe level 9 spells with less than 18 Int. This mechanic can entirely be circumvented by Int-buffing potions, though. So THAT's what was happening. Why is the Targos shop full of stuff you'd never ever be able to afford? Is it for multiplayer games?
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Oct 3, 2016 20:36
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The int check on copying scrolls, i.e. the max amount per level you can have as well as the max level you can learn, was already present in the games before the EE. It's just level 9 spells were bugged. Copying them was always successful. Even if you didn't have enough int. Even if the spell was already in your spellbook. Level 1-8 spells worked as intended, but as mentioned, the cheap and nigh infinite potions of genius make that restriction a joke.
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Oct 3, 2016 22:10
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