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Baronjutter posted:Yeah, I was going to say that these days there's actually factions within disability groups that would see a disabled character going on adventures due to cool cyber implants and poo poo as an attack on their unique culture and abilities. They're not disabled they're just different, maybe even better than you, normie. Are you trying to say being deaf is a disability? Are you trying to say it's an inferior culture you want to genocide with implants and forced education at schools with people who can hear? My girlfriend believes this and she's not even deaf, it's wild.
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Oct 5, 2016 20:06
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"Disabled people aren't just broken people and can have culture that's worth recognising" isn't exactly an outrageous claim. There is an identification factor - if the disabled person doesn't actually have the disability then that's hardly someone you can identify with. For a non-disability example, it'd be like saying it's ok for all the characters in sci fi to be men because gender changing is easy in the future
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Oct 5, 2016 20:11
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MrL_JaKiri posted:"Disabled people aren't just broken people and can have culture that's worth recognising" isn't exactly an outrageous claim. Counterpoint: humans were actually intended by nature to hear and see, not necessarily to all have penises.
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Oct 5, 2016 20:29
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It sounds like the argument here is that people like Geordi with assistive technology would help de-stigmatize using assistive technology. I don't see how it could hurt! Though boy, this makes that dude who was in the beepy wheelchair in TOS awkward. Or did he have some kind of sophisticated space curse? Big Mean Jerk posted:O'Brien's face does resemble a potato though.
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Oct 5, 2016 20:30
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There are groups, specially capital D Deaf Culture that sees assistive technology akin to cultural genocide. It's not a disability to them, it's more like a culture or race and anyone who gets a "cure" or assistance is a race traitor.
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Oct 5, 2016 20:37
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I think Jadzia is fine. If she seems weak, it's only because the rest of the cast is so strong.
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Oct 5, 2016 20:39
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I didn't really consider the culture angle, but I'm sure that will also change with easier and cheaper access to tech. If anything, providing the means to supplement the senses one is born with using tech should be less presumptuous than genetic manipulation in the womb. But also, I'm thinking of the disorders that presently require round-the-clock medical care being so easily met with technological solutions that they could command a spacefaring vessel. That would be pretty inspiring, especially if it doesn't erase the original malady completely, but makes it a minor functional hurdle.
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Oct 5, 2016 20:40
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Met posted:I think Jadzia is fine. If she seems weak, it's only because the rest of the cast is so strong. I liked her. She wasn't super exciting, but it was cool to have a chill, competent, no-nonsense woman hanging around, and while they maybe could have done more with the Trill concept I always thought it was super cool.
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Oct 5, 2016 20:53
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showbiz_liz posted:I liked her. She wasn't super exciting, but it was cool to have a chill, competent, no-nonsense woman hanging around, and while they maybe could have done more with the Trill concept I always thought it was super cool. VOY had the same issue with Kes [ha! My iPhone autocorrected her name to AIDS  ] and Neelix. What did they bring to the table for story opportunities that any of the human/Starfleet characters couldn't?
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Oct 5, 2016 21:05
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Payndz posted:VOY had the same issue with Kes [ha! My iPhone autocorrected her name to AIDS The opportunity for a starfleet member to bang a three-year old?
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Oct 5, 2016 21:14
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Jadzia's was at her best in the wedding episode because she was an arrogant know-it-all too obsessed with her own superiority to tone it down just a bit for someone she didn't consider an authority she had to answer to. She should have done more of that.
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Oct 5, 2016 21:16
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Yeah, Jadzia was boring as gently caress because she was "perfect". Really her ego and the whole "I'm super old and wise but also a vivacious and inconsistently impulsive 20-something" didn't really lead to any interesting storylines. If she was erased from the show, it wouldn't have suffered. Meanwhile erasing a 2nd tier character like Rom or Garrak would have really hurt the show. She wasn't terrible, but she didn't add anything and that's the worst thing you can say about someone on a show where everyone was interesting in some way. Short dax at least had flaws, you got to see what someone who hasn't trained their whole life to handle getting generations of memories does with being joined. At the same time also being held up to previous dax's standards and feelings of not being worthy. I only wish she had an extra season or two to actually develop. I do like that in ds9 they totally re-wrote the trill to be more like an external backup hard drive rather than just a loving goa'uld parasite that destroys the host. You're still you but now you suddenly remember a bunch of other life times as if they were your own memories, which means you aren't you really anymore.
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Oct 5, 2016 21:17
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Jadzia could have been a perfectly fine character if they had any ideas about what her character conflicts would be, or if the actress had been more than intermittently convincing. Her main gimmick of having past lives as an alien slug is only relevant to two or three episodes and it's no coincidence that they're the more memorable ones centered on her. She doesn't really look comfortable with her material most of the time until her relationship with Worf develops. Ezri is a better character concept because there's conflict built into the character. She wasn't ready to take the symbiont and didn't even really want it, she just had to and now she has to deal with it. The execution isn't great, but the idea is there. With Jadzia it wasn't there to begin with. There's the potential for an idea about how whether Sisko's friendship with Curzon really carries over to Jadzia, what it means to be possessed by an alien slug at all, and how you can possibly maintain your identity in the situation that a joined Trill is in -- but none of that potential is ever explored until Ezri shows up.
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Oct 5, 2016 21:29
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Turns out "I'm your best bro from years ago but I'm also a sexy lady" isn't such a great character after all.
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Oct 5, 2016 21:32
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Brawnfire posted:Good thing you're not a screenwriter, I guess? Are you seriously saying that Star Trek: A Bouquet of Diagnosed but Treatable Mental Illnesses isn't a totally poo poo premise for a tv show?
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Oct 5, 2016 21:36
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Blast Fantasto posted:then Space Pirate Sisko jumps in to the scene and totally hams it up. It's great. oh you sweet summer child you have no idea
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Oct 5, 2016 21:44
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Drink-Mix Man posted:Counterpoint: humans were actually intended by nature to hear and see, not necessarily to all have penises. Nothing was intended by nature. And, more fundamentally, you're missing the point. It wasn't to draw an equivalence between having a disability and being a women (explicitly not, in fact). The point is that having a disabled character, a gay character, a female character, a black character on a programme (or as an option in an RPG, say) is very powerful, symbolically; it tells people that "Yes, it's ok to be like you are!" (and there's been a lot of writing on this topic, unsurprisingly). Having a character who would be just like you but actually he's been fixed to be "normal" which is why he can go on adventures does pretty much the opposite. Yes, there's a discussion to be had about normalising things like hearing aids but this is a complex issue with no one-size-fits-all solution. Nessus posted:But did the potato make him that way, or did the Irish make the spud in their image? Makes u think. Oh cool we're back to the ironic racism
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Oct 5, 2016 21:45
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MrL_JaKiri posted:Nothing was intended by nature. Aren't there literally some episodes dealing with this exact thing? Particularly the "How dare you suggest so-and-so be fixed? He's fine the way he is!" thing, if not the "Maybe people would actually choose to be disabled in such-and-such way" thing.
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Oct 5, 2016 21:50
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Data Graham posted:Aren't there literally some episodes dealing with this exact thing? Particularly the "How dare you suggest so-and-so be fixed? He's fine the way he is!" thing, if not the "Maybe people would actually choose to be disabled in such-and-such way" thing. DS9 Melora comes to mind. And it was actually written by a wheelchair-bound man, but he didn't like how it turned out after some rewrites.
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Oct 5, 2016 21:59
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Baronjutter posted:Yeah, I was going to say that these days there's actually factions within disability groups that would see a disabled character going on adventures due to cool cyber implants and poo poo as an attack on their unique culture and abilities. They're not disabled they're just different, maybe even better than you, normie. Are you trying to say being deaf is a disability? Are you trying to say it's an inferior culture you want to genocide with implants and forced education at schools with people who can hear? I think TNG should be given some credit when Geordi rejected being healed of blindness when Riker got Q powers. Of course, Braga and Berman poo poo all over that in the movies...
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Oct 5, 2016 22:12
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Finster Dexter posted:I think TNG should be given some credit when Geordi rejected being healed of blindness when Riker got Q powers. Of course, Braga and Berman poo poo all over that in the movies... I think that was less "there's nothing wrong with my eyes" and more "gently caress you Q, none of us will be bribed"
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Oct 5, 2016 22:22
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Geordi never really gets normied though since even after the implants in the movies he has the crazy infra vision
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Oct 5, 2016 22:25
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Why cookie Rocket posted:Are you seriously saying that Star Trek: A Bouquet of Diagnosed but Treatable Mental Illnesses isn't a totally poo poo premise for a tv show? Uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh I guess if you wrote it boring and lovely, which you seem dead set on. I think that's kind of a weird decision based upon character pitches alone, but that's why I suggested you'd be a bit lacking as a screenwriter. I don't see how it's so much different from Geordi. Most of the time, he's a normal guy with an aptitude for engineering. Sometimes his VISOR is a strength. Sometimes his blindess is a detriment. See, when I think of it, I think of a paraplegic captain who spent half his life confined to a wheelchair. Now he has a chance to prove himself. I see an astrophysicist who thought they'd only ever see the stars through a telescope in a hospital window, traversing distant stars. I see situations in which their disabilities become strengths, or weaknesses. Most of the time, though, it's as important as Uhura being black. I don't remember being bored by exploring any of the other characters' motivations.
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Oct 5, 2016 22:31
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Might make a good episode to have the crew stranded somewhere for a good while and by the way one of your favourite totally normal seeming characters has a serious mental illness which is perfectly manageable with some future medication, but now they've run out and it really sucks.
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Oct 5, 2016 22:37
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Baronjutter posted:Might make a good episode to have the crew stranded somewhere for a good while and by the way one of your favourite totally normal seeming characters has a serious mental illness which is perfectly manageable with some future medication, but now they've run out and it really sucks. Do you think it'd be better or worse if it was an alien character? I mean with an alien you can do whatever, but you can make the indications and demonstrated behavior match up to whatever you'd like.
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Oct 5, 2016 22:39
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Baronjutter posted:Might make a good episode to have the crew stranded somewhere for a good while and by the way one of your favourite totally normal seeming characters has a serious mental illness which is perfectly manageable with some future medication, but now they've run out and it really sucks. It would have been cool if they did this in DS9 after O'Brien had to start taking space antidepressants to keep him even after he got mind-imprisoned. I don't think they ever mentioned that again after the episode where it happened.
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Oct 5, 2016 22:43
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I'm still only in season 5 and it sounds like Ezri was the better character, but why did Jadzia's actress leave the show anyway?
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Oct 5, 2016 22:47
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nerdman42 posted:I'm still only in season 5 and it sounds like Ezri was the better character, but why did Jadzia's actress leave the show anyway? I think for Becker.
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Oct 5, 2016 22:48
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I think everyone was on a 6 year contract and she had the chance to start a brand new show, an opportunity she'd have missed if she stayed on for 1 more season.
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Oct 5, 2016 22:53
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Finster Dexter posted:I think TNG should be given some credit when Geordi rejected being healed of blindness when Riker got Q powers. Of course, Braga and Berman poo poo all over that in the movies... Geordi got the ocular implants in First Contact because LeVar Burton absolutely hated wearing the VISOR prop (despite it being redesigned a few times, he still had almost no vision while wearing it and was constantly bumping into things).
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Oct 5, 2016 22:58
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Also it was literally held in place by screws and gave him headaches
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Oct 5, 2016 23:05
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Tunicate posted:Also it was literally held in place by screws and gave him headaches No screws. It had a thin wire to hold them on like glasses. Looking out of that thing is probably what gave him headaches.
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Oct 5, 2016 23:10
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It was an elastic band early on, but it was for a while screwed to his forehead and gave him terrible headaches.
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Oct 5, 2016 23:16
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First season wasn't screwed, after that it was quote:"It’s pretty much a living hell... 85 to 90% of my vision is taken away when the VISOR goes on... I bumped into everything the first season–Light stands, overhead microphones, cables at my feet–I tripped over it all... So it’s a sort of conundrum – the blind man, who puts on the VISOR and sees much more than everyone else around him, when the actor actually does that he’s turned into a blind person. Then there was the pain. In the second season, we re-designed the VISOR and made it heavier and the way we actually affixed it was that we screwed it, we literally screwed it into my head and so there were screws that we would turn and there were flanges on the inside that would press into my temples and so after fifteen or twenty minutes of that I got headaches. So I had a daily headache for about six years. Which was also no fun."
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Oct 5, 2016 23:17
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Y'know, I always thought Geordi seemed a little irritable. Maybe that was just LeVar.
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Oct 5, 2016 23:18
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Why not design the loving prop better, Jesus. If you need to, work it into an episode - having Geordi's VISOR get shot up so Data or Crusher have to fab up a replacement that looks somewhat different is like two lines, and you can probably just replace it off-stage. But if I'm so smart why ain't I a famous TV producer.
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Oct 5, 2016 23:24
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I remember when Aatrek was so, so, so proud that he scored an interview with some schmuck from Galoob, and rushed here to show us a picture of the scrapped VISOR toy.
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Oct 5, 2016 23:38
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I got a guy who worked in the factory to sign my Data misprint doll.
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Oct 5, 2016 23:40
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Timby posted:I remember when Aatrek was so, so, so proud that he scored an interview with some schmuck from Galoob, and rushed here to show us a picture of the scrapped VISOR toy. Maybe he got to meet the dude's daughter...
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Oct 5, 2016 23:51
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Finster Dexter posted:I think TNG should be given some credit when Geordi rejected being healed of blindness when Riker got Q powers. Of course, Braga and Berman poo poo all over that in the movies... I had never watched Reading Rainbow, so I grew up only ever seeing LeVar as Geordi. To this day I think he looks a little weird without the VISOR. Part of his face is missing.
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Oct 5, 2016 23:59
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