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Iceclaw posted:So how do you guys build lists? I'm at a bit of a loss about where to start. I own a fair bit of ships, most I bought/was gifted when I couldn't play and I'm bit drowning in options. Are you wanting fun casual lists or competitive lists? Sometimes, I want a little of both, so I'll go to list juggler and run a search for the pilot or ship I want to use and see if there are any builds that consistently place high in swiss in larger tournaments. That usually also gives me some ideas on what pairs well with that ship. --signed, amateur netdecker
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Oct 5, 2016 19:30
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banned from Starbucks posted:Theres these Me and the other local event organizer will let people use third party dice and templates at local tournaments, because not even friggin' GW is so bold as to force you to use their rulers and dice. Fuckkin' come on. Maybe your dude is in the same boat. But yeah if you have ambitions of going to anything regional or above you need to either go with the default dice and rickety cardboard poo poo or pay far out the rear end for tourney prizes.
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Oct 5, 2016 19:54
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Strobe posted:Hell yes. If I ever get TTS wanna mirror match?
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Oct 5, 2016 20:00
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Pac-Manioc Root posted:Me and the other local event organizer will let people use third party dice and templates at local tournaments, because not even friggin' GW is so bold as to force you to use their rulers and dice. Fuckkin' come on. Maybe your dude is in the same boat. But yeah if you have ambitions of going to anything regional or above you need to either go with the default dice and rickety cardboard poo poo or pay far out the rear end for tourney prizes. Especially considering there have been multiple cases of regional kit templates/tokens being off by multiple mm (which doesn't sound like much but is a lot in a game like xwing). Just go with the tournament rules: you can use nonstandard stuff unless your opponent requests you to use official stuff, which is why I always have an extra set of cardboard templates in my tournament bag.
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Oct 5, 2016 20:01
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Iceclaw posted:So how do you guys build lists? I'm at a bit of a loss about where to start. I own a fair bit of ships, most I bought/was gifted when I couldn't play and I'm bit drowning in options. I pick a ship or a pilot I want to use and then build out from there, generally. For example, when I discovered that I really liked the 58 point Ultra Dash build, I started trying to find good Rebels that fit in the 42 remaining points. I should fly Dash and an ARC or Dash and Lone Wolf Poe.
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Oct 5, 2016 20:02
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Depends on what you're building it for. If it's just to play casually, yeah, just start with a ship, a pilot, or upgrade you want to use and then go from there. If you're doing a competitive list, you're probably starting from one of the powerful meta archetypes and making adjustments from there. Your adjustments will probably be considering what you consider your strengths are, what you like to use, and what you expect to see on the other side of the table. The last tournament I went to (and won at!) I took a Biggs/Kanan list, because I liked using those ships, got pretty good at maneuvering those two together, and with the stress control I could work pretty effectively against Palp Aces. I was banking on the idea that some of the most skilled players there would be flying Palp Aces, which my list was a soft counter against. I had hoped that the list construction would give me enough edge to beat them, and that my own skill and good playing would give me enough of an edge to beat other players who had lists that countered mine. Finster Dexter posted:Are you wanting fun casual lists or competitive lists? Sometimes, I want a little of both, so I'll go to list juggler and run a search for the pilot or ship I want to use and see if there are any builds that consistently place high in swiss in larger tournaments. That usually also gives me some ideas on what pairs well with that ship. I know you're joking, but people who sneer at "netdecking" in X-Wing are snobs and jerks. It's a thing that people say when they want to feel special or better than newer players, but if you look in their Plano case I bet you see 4 B-Wings from when they were running the hot meta BBBBZ list and 2 dusty K-Wings from when they were using a Thug Lyfe list. The construction complexity of an X Wing list is miles away from the complexity of a game like MTG or Netrunner. To me, a "netdecker" is cargo-culting a list they saw online that an experienced player was doing well with, without fully understanding why it works or how to use it. Within each faction, there are 10-15 pilots that show up in 95% of lists. Either notable unique pilots or cheap and cheerful generics. There are so many obvious auto-includes in pilot/ship combos too. Poe gets Autothrusters, Soontir Fel and Inquisitor get Push The Limit and Autothrusters, Dash gets HLC and Outrider, etc. Some of those you might deviate from, but you've got to have a good reason to do so.
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Oct 5, 2016 20:02
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canyoneer posted:I know you're joking, but people who sneer at "netdecking" in X-Wing are snobs and jerks. It's a thing that people say when they want to feel special or better than newer players, but if you look in their Plano case I bet you see 4 B-Wings from when they were running the hot meta BBBBZ list and 2 dusty K-Wings from when they were using a Thug Lyfe list. I wholeheartedly agree, but have seen posts on this very thread shaming Thug Life (which is 4 y-wings btw), Dengaroo, Palp Aces, etc. specifically and painting people who play those lists as "anti-fun". Admittedly there's a lot less of that in recent months, so maybe it's not fair to bring up at this point.
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Oct 5, 2016 20:16
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Iceclaw posted:So how do you guys build lists? I'm at a bit of a loss about where to start. I own a fair bit of ships, most I bought/was gifted when I couldn't play and I'm bit drowning in options. Start with your favorite squad builder (Mine is https://geordanr.github.io/xwing/). Find a ship you want to try out, and then build it up how you would like. Think about what it is that ship is doing, and what weaknesses that ship will have. Let's look at the meta and test. Can it survive a Crack swarm? What about TLTs? Can it survive Dangar to kill Manaroo? U-Boats/Ordnance? Can you put enough damage on a twin VCX + Y-wing build? Will Palp-Aces steal your lunch money? After you think you have something down, give it a go on the table or vassal, and see what you are missing. Did you need an initiative bid? Veteran Instincts instead of another EPT? More firepower or more defenses? Then rebuild and give it another go. (example: I want to try Asajj Ventress. I know she's going to use the mobile arc and stressing people. She's a control ship. - That means I am using Gyros to get the free Rotate action, and need to find a crew that assists or deals with stress. Tactician is the best one I can find, and I know 2 stress on a target is far better than 1, so I feel good in that choice. - For EPT, I can use VI to bring her up to 8, which is good, but let's look at her a bit closer. She has a good dial with green turns, so I can choose a self-stress mechanic without too many issues. PTL is always a good choice, but I think I actually want to try Expert Handling to get a re-positioning action. And I cannot put Engine on since I have Gyros. - Illicit upgrades are good, and BMSTs work well with Stress, so we'll see what our point totals look like if we add one. - Do I need the title, it's good, but expensive. I will be trying to keep things in arc, but it also means I will need other pilots with lower Pilot Skill to take advantage. We'll take a look at the rest of the squad and determine if I need this later. Assaj point cost thus far (44 points) Now, what are my weaknesses, I know a tie crack swarm will eat Ventriss alive, so I need something that eats TIEs, usually an arc dodger. Let's choose the new protectorate fighter, Fenn Rau - Married to PTL if I want to arc-dodge. - Can carry Autothrusters, so must carry Autothrusters. - The Title I'm not sure is necessary since I want to be flanking, but we'll keep it in mind if we have the points left over. (33 points) Now I need something to help with the big ships Always a favorite of mine, N'Dru Suhlak puts the hammer down on big ships. - N'Dru, Fearlessness, Cluster Missiles, Guidance Chips, Glitterstim. (24 points) Well that is 101 points, which is just too many, time to see what we can remove, I can take away BMSTs, or switch my EPT from Expert Handling to VI. Let's go with EH to VI, and put it on the table. Did I make a mistake in changing the EPT? Can it really survive a crack swarm? I don't know if I have anything to deal with Palp-Aces other than getting N'Dru over to Palp as fast as possible. )
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Oct 5, 2016 20:31
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Finster Dexter posted:I wholeheartedly agree, but have seen posts on this very thread shaming Thug Life (which is 4 y-wings btw), Dengaroo, Palp Aces, etc. specifically and painting people who play those lists as "anti-fun". Admittedly there's a lot less of that in recent months, so maybe it's not fair to bring up at this point. The only time netlisting really bothers me is when people do it ALL THE TIME, even in a casual setting. I understand using proven, strong lists in tournaments and the like, and it should be expected. Everyone wants to win when they go to a tournament, or else they wuldn't be there. I know people, however, who I have never really seen play anything but a proven netlist, even against opponents who were new or not as experienced and were just wanting to try some of their ships. Getting destroyed when your just starting out and having no real idea why is not fun for many people. Plus, sometimes its fun to take 2 janky/gimmick lists, throw them together, and see what works and what doesn't.
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Oct 5, 2016 20:50
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enigmahfc posted:The only time netlisting really bothers me is when people do it ALL THE TIME, even in a casual setting. I understand using proven, strong lists in tournaments and the like, and it should be expected. Everyone wants to win when they go to a tournament, or else they wuldn't be there. I see where you're coming from, I think. But as someone who uses netlists a LOT even in casual settings to test them out, etc., I don't think I'm being a big dick about it. If someone is TRULY new (just bought a core set) then obviously I'll play something else, but at some point even new people need to start bringing their A-game. I got brutalized in the local scene but I learned kind of what to expect in the local meta and I like to think I got better because of the experience. That's part of playing a head-to-head tactical tabletop game, imo.
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Oct 5, 2016 21:05
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Finster Dexter posted:I wholeheartedly agree, but have seen posts on this very thread shaming Thug Life (which is 4 y-wings btw), Dengaroo, Palp Aces, etc. specifically and painting people who play those lists as "anti-fun". Admittedly there's a lot less of that in recent months, so maybe it's not fair to bring up at this point. I've complained about them too. Everyone prefers to win. I enjoy the game most when I have played an exciting and interesting game, regardless of whether I won. Certain lists do not lead to interesting games. Thug Lyfe and Scout alpha strikes are to me, nearly always uninteresting lists to play against. There's a meta fatigue that happens when you play against the same type of list over and over again. I'd put lists like Palp Aces or Brobots here, because the lists don't necessarily mean uninteresting games, but playing it often leads you to feel like you're playing the same game over and over again. I don't really play enough to get to this space often, but I can sympathize with those who do. Oddly enough I never get tired of playing against swarms. That's probably because counter-swarm tactics reward you for outguessing your opponent and avoiding being blocked, which is the most fun part of the game for me. Win or lose, those games are consistently fun. enigmahfc posted:I understand using proven, strong lists in tournaments and the like, and it should be expected. Everyone wants to win when they go to a tournament, or else they wuldn't be there. Yeah, I'll never fault someone for bringing one of the "unfun" lists to play against to a tournament. I'm just probably going to enjoy those games less, win or lose. There was a dude in my first tournament who boasted that the local store across town he played at had banned TLTs from play, and the game was so much better that way. 
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Oct 5, 2016 21:27
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KO Derf posted:Always a favorite of mine, N'Dru Suhlak puts the hammer down on big ships. Haha, yeah the stars have to align to pull it off, but the fact that you could one shot a shuttle with this is hilarious. Definitely going to have to put it on the table when my Fang arrives.
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Oct 5, 2016 21:36
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canyoneer posted:I've complained about them too. What if it's the first time someone has used that list and/or they want to practice for more competitive venues? Personally, I consider every single game I play to be practice for tournaments. That doesn't mean I play meta lists every time, but I approach every game as an opportunity to refine my skills. e: bah enough navel gazing... I'm trying to decide if Juke is better than Crack Shot on TIE/x7 defenders. I'm thinking that if I can find the points that Juke will be better in most circumstances. Finster Dexter fucked around with this message at 22:01 on Oct 5, 2016 |
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Oct 5, 2016 21:47
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Juke is a weird EPT. Other than Omega Leader, it works best when there are lots of ships shooting at the same target. The more Jukes in that scenario, the better, but even one Juke is OK if it shoots first, stripping the token to ensure the other ships get damage through. In Palp-Ryad-Vessery, it's Vessery who usually has Juke. He rarely gets benefit from it directly, but both Ryad and the shuttle do.
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Oct 5, 2016 22:12
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Finster Dexter posted:What if it's the first time someone has used that list and/or they want to practice for more competitive venues? Personally, I consider every single game I play to be practice for tournaments. That doesn't mean I play meta lists every time, but I approach every game as an opportunity to refine my skills. I'd never sass an opponent about their list, because that's a really petty and crappy thing to do. I play the game, be pleasant, and try to have as much fun as possible just like in any game. I just secretly wish they were playing something else. Juke/Crack Shot is a hard call. Juke is really gnarly against lower PS ships, because if you're shooting at them first they are probably going to need to spend their focus or take some damage, and you've still got that evade. Probably better defensively than crack shot. On higher PS pilots, they want to save their focus when shooting at you unless they're confident they'll pop your evade token, at which point Juke is unthreatening. Juke also encourages ships to take a focus action every turn, instead of a reposition or target lock or whatever else. I'd probably take Juke on generics, and Crack Shot on Maarek Stele where you can use Crack Shot to spike through a gnarly crit. http://www.jedinews.co.uk/conventions-events/articles/empire-strikes-back-actor-ian-liston-died/ The actor who played Wes Janson just died.
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Oct 5, 2016 22:18
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goodness posted:Trade me scum or empire (comes with appropriate pilots, tokens, etc) I'll sell the lot for 50% if anyone wants it all . (Besides the z95 and hwks, those are used for scum I heard?) ((Or trade it for 28/15mm ww2, 15/10mm fantasy, 6mm ancients and scifi) goodness fucked around with this message at 22:25 on Oct 5, 2016 |
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Oct 5, 2016 22:22
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Finster Dexter posted:I wholeheartedly agree, but have seen posts on this very thread shaming Thug Life (which is 4 y-wings btw), [...] Oh yeah, but canyoneer means that the Thug Lyfers would need to have bought two K-Wings in order to get a sufficient quantity of TLT upgrade cards, for the four Y-Wings to use. (Which also explains why canyoneer specifically said they're dusty, as well  )Aside from that though, I agree with what you're saying
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Oct 5, 2016 22:28
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Major Isoor posted:Oh yeah, but canyoneer means that the x4 TLTers would need to have bought two K-Wings in order to get the TLT upgrade cards they need. (Which also explains why canyoneer specifically said they're dusty, as well Ohhhhh, gotcha. Hehe that makes sense.
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Oct 5, 2016 22:29
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Thanks everyone for the advices. (Though I really need to catch up on the meta. Most of those nicknames are unknown to me). Is there a good resource somewhere on ships and their stats and weaknesses and popular builds?
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Oct 5, 2016 22:40
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Iceclaw posted:Thanks everyone for the advices. (Though I really need to catch up on the meta. Most of those nicknames are unknown to me). Is there a good resource somewhere on ships and their stats and weaknesses and popular builds? http://geekadd.net/2016/some-great-x-wing-lists-past-and-present/ There's a good primer. I don't think everyone will agree with all the analysis, but it covers the top archetypes pretty well
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Oct 5, 2016 22:50
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ConfusedUs posted:Juke is a weird EPT. Other than Omega Leader, it works best when there are lots of ships shooting at the same target. The more Jukes in that scenario, the better, but even one Juke is OK if it shoots first, stripping the token to ensure the other ships get damage through. I'm an outlier, but I love throwing Juke on Vader. Take the evade and any other action, and you get sweetness.
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Oct 5, 2016 22:51
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Nice thing about Xwing is that there area very few trap choices compared to, say, Warhammer.
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Oct 5, 2016 23:07
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Slow Grow Trip Report: Guri with Fearlessness is very fun.
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Oct 5, 2016 23:32
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As someone who started playing 10 days ago, the traps I had to figure out the hard way were that mid-range pilot skills aren't worth the points over the low level rookies, torpedoes seem to be all or nothing, and the T-65 is sad. But it's remedied pretty easily I think. What feels like a sort of trap at the moment is trying to get the upgrade cards I want without buying a bunch of ships I don't want.
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Oct 5, 2016 23:32
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The T-65 is not top tier, but it has probably the strongest collection of pilot abilities in the entire game compared to any other individual ship. Wedge, Wes, Luke, and Biggs are all excellent abilities, and Tarn's ability with M9-G8 (and currently with R7) is a bucket of fun.
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Oct 5, 2016 23:35
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Strobe posted:M9-G8 Just looked this card up to refresh my memory on it (I knew it had some reroll ability, but not the specifics) and drat, that's great! Especially that you can TL friendly ships and use the ability on them, to benefit you - I had completely missed that when I originally saw the card!  Soo using this, once it comes out. Can't wait for HotR even more, now(Link if anyone else wants to see the card, but not have to Google it)
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Oct 5, 2016 23:44
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Danimo posted:As someone who started playing 10 days ago, the traps I had to figure out the hard way were that mid-range pilot skills aren't worth the points over the low level rookies, torpedoes seem to be all or nothing, and the T-65 is sad. It'd be a shame if you had to get a copy of Autothrusters. Is there any ship that can make good use of Long Range Scanners? I keep thinking that I can use it and then I remember that it needs missiles and torpedos.
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Oct 5, 2016 23:47
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The ships currently capable of taking Long Range Scanners are: TIE Bomber K-wing TIE Punisher Firespray-31 with the Slave I title And that's literally it. Bombers want to stay cheap, Punishers are bad but even if one wanted they have the option to take FCS which makes Long Range Scanners pretty useless in terms of action economy, K-wings usually either want Advanced SLAM or to stay cheap, and Firesprays want Engine Upgrade. The biggest problem is that it competes with Guidance Chips, which are hands down 100% better in the same slot for the same cost. The only downside is you have to actually use ordnance to use Guidance Chips, but if you're taking one of those ships and not using ordnance than what is the loving point.
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Oct 5, 2016 23:51
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Major Isoor posted:Just looked this card up to refresh my memory on it (I knew it had some reroll ability, but not the specifics) and drat, that's great! Especially that you can TL friendly ships and use the ability on them, to benefit you - I had completely missed that when I originally saw the card! My XXX list is going to use it on Wes instead of Stressbot, so I can TL Wedge and give him Predator and Juke. 
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Oct 5, 2016 23:52
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Strobe posted:My XXX list is going to use it on Wes instead of Stressbot, so I can TL Wedge and give him Predator and Juke. Yeah, I was thinking about doing this and TLing Wedge (although not having it on Wes, since I dunno, I just don't prefer him as much as the other high-PS X-Wings), since it seems like such a good combo. Might whack the astro on my ARC (supporting Luke+Wedge) and do it that way, or something. Not sure yet. Either way, I've got some listbuilding ahead of me, when I get home tonight 
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Oct 5, 2016 23:56
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Danimo posted:As someone who started playing 10 days ago, the traps I had to figure out the hard way were that mid-range pilot skills aren't worth the points over the low level rookies, torpedoes seem to be all or nothing, and the T-65 is sad. Mid-tiers were pretty bad until recently, but with the advent of Jumpmasters having PS4 suddenly becomes a really huge deal. I agree torpedos/missiles are extremely hard to balance. Any buff immediately opens up combos that make them overpowered. Taking them naked, is usually a waste. T-65 is also at a strange place. Biggs is the anchor of 80% of competitive lists, and is very good. But their power level is, for obvious reasons, tied not to FFG's internal polling, but to what movies Disney puts out. Like, I'd be shocked if Rogue One (the movie) doesn't buff the T-65. Like in December we could actually be bitching about how OP the T-65 is because of the Partisan X-Wing title. But when I say trap, I'm really using the low bar of Games Workshop, where not only are certain units and upgrades complete garbage, but you have to wait years for a fix. Or Star Trek: Attack Wing, where they literally printed an upgrade that does nothing.
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Oct 6, 2016 00:00
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I need some clarification on ion weapons. If I roll two hits, do I do two damage and give two ion tokens? Also, what does it mean when it says "then cancel all dice results"?
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Oct 6, 2016 00:03
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Strobe posted:The T-65 is not top tier, but it has probably the strongest collection of pilot abilities in the entire game compared to any other individual ship. Wedge, Wes, Luke, and Biggs are all excellent abilities, and Tarn's ability with M9-G8 (and currently with R7) is a bucket of fun. I honestly think M9-G8 might be better on Tarn than R7, despite what I've heard people say. R7 is more potent as a defensive upgrade, but M9-G8 allows you to keep the target lock to shoot back, which I think is pretty important to make Tarn worth his points.
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Oct 6, 2016 00:08
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Endman posted:I honestly think M9-G8 might be better on Tarn than R7, despite what I've heard people say. R7 is more potent as a defensive upgrade, but M9-G8 allows you to keep the target lock to shoot back, which I think is pretty important to make Tarn worth his points. It's hands down better, because you can use Tarn's ability multiple times per turn and if you have M9-G8 you're forcing a reroll on every single enemy that attacks you period. Take a focus for offense (and extra defense) and you're set.
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Oct 6, 2016 00:13
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Jxforema posted:I need some clarification on ion weapons. If I roll two hits, do I do two damage and give two ion tokens? Also, what does it mean when it says "then cancel all dice results"? All ion weapons are basically everything or nothing. If you "hit", in the sense that your attack dice has more hits/crits than evade results you basically ignore the deal damage step, and instead just do what the card does. The "then cancel all dice results" is basically a way of saying, 'Just ignore the normal way of doing damage. And instead do what the upgrade says." The upgrade will be very specific whether you deal any damage, and how many Ion tokens the enemy ship gets. It's just like Twin Laser Turret, where you have 2 attacks of 3 dice each, but the end result is a maximum of 1 damage per attack.
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Oct 6, 2016 00:14
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Ion Torpedo is the only current exception to that, dealing full damage and an ion token to everything in the area if it hits.
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Oct 6, 2016 00:18
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Improbable Lobster posted:It'd be a shame if you had to get a copy of Autothrusters. the StarViper is going to look pretty good on my desk in my office
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Oct 6, 2016 00:19
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Ok, that makes sense, thank you!
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Oct 6, 2016 00:21
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Thundercracker posted:But when I say trap, I'm really using the low bar of Games Workshop, where not only are certain units and upgrades complete garbage, but you have to wait years for a fix. Or Star Trek: Attack Wing, where they literally printed an upgrade that does nothing. Hey hey hey, to be fair, pre-errata/misprinted Lone Wolf also did nothing. And I'm totally OK with X-Wings being powerful anchors in lists for Star Wars X-Wing Miniatures Game 
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Oct 6, 2016 00:36
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Strobe posted:The ships currently capable of taking Long Range Scanners are: If it didn't have the awful ordnance restriction then it would maybe be useful to gently caress around with. Too bad I guess.
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Oct 6, 2016 00:40
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