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Big Mean Jerk posted:Ehh, reading your dead grandmother's journal is way less creepy than Geordi reading some random dead woman's diary as he sips a Sex on the Holobeach. I consider getting off to your dead grandma to be pretty dang weird. Weirder than being a voyuer of the dead.
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Oct 6, 2016 16:50
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Lord Hydronium posted:There's even a line in Conscience of the King suggesting that Vulcan was conquered by Earth: McCoy was just REALLY drunk. Thought that Spock was a Reman.
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Oct 6, 2016 17:38
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It's also this newfangled thing called hyperbole. This is one of the rare instances where continuity makes sense. Enterprise had Earth under guidance of Vulcan when Earth actually founded the Federation and Vulcan joined. Thus, they were 'conquered' because they weren't the authority calling the shots anymore.
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Oct 6, 2016 17:51
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nerdman42 posted:"How was your party last week?" "What's the penalty for being late?" "Death." "What's the penalty for rebellion?" "Death." "Well, you know, seeing as how we're already late..."
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Oct 6, 2016 18:12
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One thing about that episode that gets glossed over a bit and was clearly an attempt by the writers to take some edge out of the punishment is laws were only enforce at a randomly chosen enforcement zone. So, you could actually accidentally transgress and not be put to death. Wesley was just very unlucky.
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Oct 6, 2016 18:57
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bull3964 posted:One thing about that episode that gets glossed over a bit and was clearly an attempt by the writers to take some edge out of the punishment is laws were only enforce at a randomly chosen enforcement zone. So, you could actually accidentally transgress and not be put to death. Wesley was just very unlucky. I have to think that someone on the Enterprise paid them off to try and free themselves of Wesley. Possibly Worf. After all they were on a deep-space "continuing mission" and there was no guarantee that fucker was going to go off to the Academy if Picard kept letting him hang out on the bridge
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Oct 6, 2016 19:23
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WeAreTheRomans posted:I have to think that someone on the Enterprise paid them off to try and free themselves of Wesley. Possibly Worf. After all they were on a deep-space "continuing mission" and there was no guarantee that fucker was going to go off to the Academy if Picard kept letting him hang out on the bridge I do wonder what would have happened if Wil Wheaton had been content to stay on the show for the full duration. Would they have kept doing "welp Wesley just keeps missing the ship to the Academy!" bits each season, or would they have done "well Wesley got a shitload of credits for his experience on the Enterprise, so he was able to bang out most of his studies in between seasons and now he's on his 'training cruise' on the Enterprise", or just straight-up "Picard got a shitload of pillow talk from Beverly and just decided he can do distance-learning via the holodeck"?
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Oct 6, 2016 19:51
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Farmer Crack-rear end posted:I do wonder what would have happened if Wil Wheaton had been content to stay on the show for the full duration. Would they have kept doing "welp Wesley just keeps missing the ship to the Academy!" bits each season, or would they have done "well Wesley got a shitload of credits for his experience on the Enterprise, so he was able to bang out most of his studies in between seasons and now he's on his 'training cruise' on the Enterprise", or just straight-up "Picard got a shitload of pillow talk from Beverly and just decided he can do distance-learning via the holodeck"? the smart move would have him just enlist like O'brien
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Oct 6, 2016 19:57
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MrJacobs posted:the smart move would have him just enlist like O'brien O'brien was still an officer when Wesley was on the ship.
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Oct 6, 2016 20:03
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Lowen SoDium posted:O'brien was still an officer when Wesley was on the ship. Maybe he was the one behind the payoff.
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Oct 6, 2016 22:22
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Farmer Crack-rear end posted:I do wonder what would have happened if Wil Wheaton had been content to stay on the show for the full duration. Would they have kept doing "welp Wesley just keeps missing the ship to the Academy!" bits each season, or would they have done "well Wesley got a shitload of credits for his experience on the Enterprise, so he was able to bang out most of his studies in between seasons and now he's on his 'training cruise' on the Enterprise", or just straight-up "Picard got a shitload of pillow talk from Beverly and just decided he can do distance-learning via the holodeck"? Honestly, there's no freaking way the Academy is big enough to handle the sheer number of cadets you'd have to have to keep that fleet running, so a throwaway line to say he's basically in Space ROTC would make sense.
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Oct 6, 2016 23:07
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Sash! posted:Honestly, there's no freaking way the Academy is big enough to handle the sheer number of cadets you'd have to have to keep that fleet running, so a throwaway line to say he's basically in Space ROTC would make sense. What they don't tell you is that all of earth is basically one big college town for starfleet academy
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Oct 6, 2016 23:22
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cheetah7071 posted:What they don't tell you is that all of earth is basically one big college town for starfleet academy So Red Squad really is like a frat. Do you suppose they have social responsibility days where they go out and help the elderly or something, or do carwashes except it's a bunch of dickheads in swim suits trying to wash an Intrepid-class by hand?
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Oct 6, 2016 23:29
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Sash! posted:Honestly, there's no freaking way the Academy is big enough to handle the sheer number of cadets you'd have to have to keep that fleet running, so a throwaway line to say he's basically in Space ROTC would make sense. Are you sure about that? Starfleet isn't as huge as a lot of other fictional space-navies, and we've also seen that Starfleet apparently does not have the up-or-out policy in place that a lot of modern militaries do. The Enterprise-D doesn't even have a thousand Starfleet personnel, at least a couple hundred are supposed to be civilians of some sort or another, and she's literally the biggest ship in the inventory (stupid garbage futureprise-J not included). It wouldn't surprise me if a lot of the smaller ships have been automated to the point where it's maybe a few dozen crew. I think if Starfleet was only about a couple thousand ships and bases, the average crew complement was a few hundred, and the average length in service was ~15 years, you probably could easily fit everyone into a single Academy campus. It'd be a big campus, but not really much more than some of the bigger universities in the US today. With the TNG S4 retcon of there being enlisted personnel as well, it makes it even easier to accommodate all of the officers at a single campus. And really, even if Starfleet Academy was entirely on Earth, it would be pretty simple to have there be other campuses besides the one at San Francisco. But that depends on how big the fleet is, which has never been a firm number, and how much turnover they have. The impression I get is that turnover is fairly low, that most people who make it into Starfleet stay there for a long time. All that said, yeah, a throwaway line like you say would probably have been easiest for them to do.
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Oct 6, 2016 23:40
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bull3964 posted:It's also this newfangled thing called hyperbole. This is one of the rare instances where continuity makes sense. Enterprise had Earth under guidance of Vulcan when Earth actually founded the Federation and Vulcan joined. Thus, they were 'conquered' because they weren't the authority calling the shots anymore. Well yeah, if you retcon everything especially Enterprise in. But we're talking about what Roddenberry and the early series writers were intending in S1.
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Oct 7, 2016 00:06
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I really don't think they were intending to imply that the federation conquered Vulcan.
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Oct 7, 2016 00:10
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The thing I wonder about is the more alien aliens, which presumably exist but are - for budget reasons - rarely seen. Like some of those dudes have to be in the Federation, even if they're veiled by the production budget.
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Oct 7, 2016 00:16
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Nessus posted:The thing I wonder about is the more alien aliens, which presumably exist but are - for budget reasons - rarely seen. Like some of those dudes have to be in the Federation, even if they're veiled by the production budget. I want entire sections of the ship where humans have to wear benzite-style breathers and production abuses the dry ice.
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Oct 7, 2016 00:25
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bull3964 posted:I really don't think they were intending to imply that the federation conquered Vulcan. The point being made is that Roddenberry had relatively little to do with the granular plot details of the show other than pitching "Wagon Train to the Stars!" Also, most long-term continuity in Star Trek outside of the overarching plot is an illusion, yet people attempt to work countless and sometimes deliberate continuity errors into their Star Trek science manuals. (The same thing happens in Star Wars).
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Oct 7, 2016 00:28
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bull3964 posted:I really don't think they were intending to imply that the federation conquered Vulcan. Lord Hydronium fucked around with this message at 00:34 on Oct 7, 2016 |
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Oct 7, 2016 00:31
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MikeJF posted:I want entire sections of the ship where humans have to wear benzite-style breathers and production abuses the dry ice. Have you watched Babylon 5, I can't remember
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Oct 7, 2016 00:34
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Nessus posted:The thing I wonder about is the more alien aliens, which presumably exist but are - for budget reasons - rarely seen. Like some of those dudes have to be in the Federation, even if they're veiled by the production budget. One of the cool parts about Diane Duane's novels is that she really runs with the idea that the Enterprise has truly alien crewmembers (like an immortal crystal spider and a snake-dragon and an invertebrate who eats burnt-out computer chips).
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Oct 7, 2016 00:38
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Nessus posted:The thing I wonder about is the more alien aliens, which presumably exist but are - for budget reasons - rarely seen. Like some of those dudes have to be in the Federation, even if they're veiled by the production budget. There was some novel that explained this by having separate ships for aliens with weird physiologies, so that their ships can have environmental conditions that are better suited to them. Like, there are ships just for Horta, for instance.
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Oct 7, 2016 00:48
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Zurui posted:One of the cool parts about Diane Duane's novels is that she really runs with the idea that the Enterprise has truly alien crewmembers (like an immortal crystal spider and a snake-dragon and an invertebrate who eats burnt-out computer chips).
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Oct 7, 2016 00:49
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The next star trek tv series should be literally Sector General
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Oct 7, 2016 00:52
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Star Trek on a space station? It would never work.
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Oct 7, 2016 00:54
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Tunicate posted:The next star trek tv series should be literally Sector General Gene actually thought of something like that back in the day. quote:During the second season of The Original Series, Gene Roddenberry and Darlene Hartman (writer of unproduced episode "Shol") came up with an idea for a spin-off series entitled Hopeship, which would have been about the voyages of a Federation hospital vessel. The series would have included Doctor M'Benga (Booker Bradshaw) in the regular cast. Despite the series concept never being realized within the Star Trek universe, Hartman later wrote the idea in the form of a novel in 1994. (These Are the Voyages: TOS Season Two)
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Oct 7, 2016 00:55
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I liked Dr M'Benga
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Oct 7, 2016 01:12
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Lord Hydronium posted:Even if there's not the budget for crazy aliens, that could have been a fun thing to have offscreen mentions of in one of the series. "Oh, Ensign Zyxyzz spun his web in the Jeffries tube again!" They did this from time to time. Remember the tree ensign on DS9 that everyone was excited was budding?
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Oct 7, 2016 01:16
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After The War posted:They did this from time to time. Remember the tree ensign on DS9 that everyone was excited was budding? e: Whaddya know.
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Oct 7, 2016 01:41
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So Pulaski is basically Bones without the charm. Plus you know when Bones was talking poo poo to Spock you know Spock could handle it and give as good as he got. Data is basically a child emotionally and Pulaski just rips into him constantly. Also they did another holodeck episode and they literally created a a being capable of independent thought. Data took that piece of paper out of the holodeck too so they can straight up convert energy into matter. Picard totally punked Moriarty when he said he couldn't leave the holodeck.
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Oct 7, 2016 02:14
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Pwnstar posted:So Pulaski is basically Bones without the charm. Plus you know when Bones was talking poo poo to Spock you know Spock could handle it and give as good as he got. Data is basically a child emotionally and Pulaski just rips into him constantly. It's really bizarre that Data made it into Starfleet and at such a high rank in light of that. I guess they just figured "eh whatever, he can do math really fast and aced all the physicals". Pwnstar posted:Also they did another holodeck episode and they literally created a a being capable of independent thought. Data took that piece of paper out of the holodeck too so they can straight up convert energy into matter. Picard totally punked Moriarty when he said he couldn't leave the holodeck. The mobile emitters does make it pretty hilarious, though in retrospect it seems like an obvious solution I'm surprised (a) didn't exist yet and (b) wasn't invented on the spot by the D's crew.
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Oct 7, 2016 02:23
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To be fair, it's a piece of paper. Very different from a person. Like, items could be replicated, explaining why Wesley was soaked after falling in that pond or stream, whatever it was. Probably food too, so if you're in the holodeck all day you don't miss meals. But Moriarty is a character, so even if his body was a replicated item within the holodeck, his consciousness is within the computer and is just piloting his meatsuit from afar. This would explain why holodeck safeties failing make things lethal; d'Artagnan has a real sword in his holographic hand, and the "safety" is probably like a forcefield projected around the weapon (or the participants) to keep things in the deck from causing real harm. It's a horrible design in that sense, because if the safety fails, the program keeps going and suddenly everything is real and can kill you.
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Oct 7, 2016 02:25
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Data's backstory just doesn't make any sense. He was in Starfleet for over 20 years but still had to have basic things explained to him.
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Oct 7, 2016 02:26
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WickedHate posted:It's really bizarre that Data made it into Starfleet and at such a high rank in light of that. I guess they just figured "eh whatever, he can do math really fast and aced all the physicals". He did spend 12 years as a Lieutenant before receiving another promotion.
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Oct 7, 2016 02:27
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Cojawfee posted:Data's backstory just doesn't make any sense. He was in Starfleet for over 20 years but still had to have basic things explained to him. I think at one point there was a mention they just used him as a bureaucratic paperwork bot for those years.
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Oct 7, 2016 02:34
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Rhyno posted:This right here is deeper and more powerful than anything that other franchise has ever given us. "If I hadn't, the cost would have been my soul." I have always liked that line.
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Oct 7, 2016 03:02
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Tunicate posted:I think at one point there was a mention they just used him as a bureaucratic paperwork bot for those years. That doesn't explain how he got suggested for duty on the flagship of the Federation. My head canon is that nobody on Data's previous postings wanted anything to do with him, so he basically learned nothing about human nature. Thankfully, once he got to the Enterprise he had creep lord Geordi to pal around with. So then Data ends up being less creepy and weird by association and the crew of the Enterprise is willing to help him learn about human nature or whatever bullshit.
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Oct 7, 2016 03:26
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Unbelievably Fat Man posted:That doesn't explain how he got suggested for duty on the flagship of the Federation. My head canon is that nobody on Data's previous postings wanted anything to do with him, so he basically learned nothing about human nature. Thankfully, once he got to the Enterprise he had creep lord Geordi to pal around with. So then Data ends up being less creepy and weird by association and the crew of the Enterprise is willing to help him learn about human nature or whatever bullshit. It was an experiment of putting a useless psychologist and a super-strong autistic robot on a ship. It failed miserably since you never see either on any other starship, but the Enterprise had to make the best of it.
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Oct 7, 2016 03:39
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Data had been in Starfleet for a ridiculously long time, hadn't he? Like two decades starting from ensign and only made Lt.
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Oct 7, 2016 03:40
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