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Genocyber posted:You're praising OP's not-ki and dissing Sanderson's well-crafted magic systems. I guess this thread is the Bad Opinion Zone. systems that are overly known and over-explained to the point where any and all wonder is squeezed out of what is supposed to be a fantasy setting should, imo, be dissed as thoroughly as possible
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Oct 7, 2016 17:05
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read zatch bell and eyeshield 21 instead of dragonball
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Oct 7, 2016 17:12
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Does lotr ever go deeper that "gandalf wiggles his wand and mutters"
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Oct 7, 2016 17:34
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Gandalf wiggles his wang and nuts
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Oct 7, 2016 17:46
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oddium posted:read zatch bell and eyeshield 21 instead of dragonball zatch bell is ok
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Oct 7, 2016 17:56
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Read Dragon Ball because it's great. It even peaks at the end with the Buu saga.
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Oct 7, 2016 18:10
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i think the magic of one piece is an extension of the core narrative, but i do not think it is executed flawlessly by any means. i also think sanderson writes overly complicated magic for the sake of it and it doesn't help the central ideas of his books too much and whenever he explains them, they read like instruction manuals. some people like weird magic rules and thats why he sells (his primary audience is goons).tbp posted:Honestly it's only annoying in the story when characters are saying poo poo like "your haki can't cut mine!!" Or "luffy needs to recharge his haki for 5 minutes!" yeah this poo poo annoys the hell out of me, but i also think it is one of the primary issues with shounen in general in that people will say things more than show them. anime was right fucked around with this message at 18:25 on Oct 7, 2016 |
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Oct 7, 2016 18:19
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dragon ball starts as a gag manga but gets more serious over time
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Oct 7, 2016 18:25
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tbp posted:
See, this is where I disagree with you guys. This is where, I believe, the primary drama and tension in shonen comes from. We already had One Piece Magic, it was devil fruits, and Oda made a conscious decision, like 500 chapters in, to include another form of magic to make things more like most other shonen. I welcome the change, because when Luffy finds a man that needs punching he shouldn't need a two chapter primer on the guy's power and how it works and how it works in relation to his own. If we didn't have haki, we'd still have people theorizing that Captain John's treasure mark was a prism that was going to be used to defeat Kizaru (remember that gem) and the worst part is, their theories would be valid because every fight would have to have this wacky clever outcome. Now everyone can hurt everyone, Color of Observation is never used in a serious fight, and CoC is only used on mooks. CoA is the only relevant haki, and everyone can use it. It has varying degrees of strength depending on the user and their condition, so no, Foxy cannot use haki to the same extent as Doflamingo. Even the "five minutes", one of the more polarizing moments from the last few arcs, was just another Waiting for Goku moment that OP does all the time, expressed in such a way that even haki is something that requires concentration and application, so even when everybody can use it, Oda can still restrict it when he needs to.
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Oct 7, 2016 20:21
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I hate in anime/manga the trope of a main-ish character saying things like "He's going to use that attack!" or "I'll use...that and victory is assured".
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Oct 7, 2016 20:46
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Crazyeyes posted:I hate in anime/manga the trope of a main-ish character saying things like "He's going to use that attack!" or "I'll use...that and victory is assured". This is entirely a quirk of translation, although it's definitely very annoying. Japanese sentence structure doesn't require the sentence to contain a subject. So like in your first sentence, in Japanese a direct translation would be something like "Using attack!" with no further details, because the Who and the What are assumed knowledge by the speaker. So since sentences like that happen all the time, its become a common Japanese writing technique to disguise what's coming next by having the speaker not share the Who and the What and the Where with the listener. And while it works in Japanese, it leads to that constant, awkward translation problem where the translator doesn't know the subject either, that's probably in next week's episode/chapter, and even if they do know, translating the subject into that sentence would be adding knowledge that isn't there originally, which messes with dramatic timing. So every time that happens, now you know - its just a weird translation problem that no one really knows how to fix, because the languages involved are structured completely differently.
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Oct 7, 2016 21:08
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Advice posted:See, this is where I disagree with you guys. This is where, I believe, the primary drama and tension in shonen comes from. We already had One Piece Magic, it was devil fruits, and Oda made a conscious decision, like 500 chapters in, to include another form of magic to make things more like most other shonen. I welcome the change, because when Luffy finds a man that needs punching he shouldn't need a two chapter primer on the guy's power and how it works and how it works in relation to his own. If we didn't have haki, we'd still have people theorizing that Captain John's treasure mark was a prism that was going to be used to defeat Kizaru (remember that gem) and the worst part is, their theories would be valid because every fight would have to have this wacky clever outcome. Now everyone can hurt everyone, Color of Observation is never used in a serious fight, and CoC is only used on mooks. CoA is the only relevant haki, and everyone can use it. It has varying degrees of strength depending on the user and their condition, so no, Foxy cannot use haki to the same extent as Doflamingo. Even the "five minutes", one of the more polarizing moments from the last few arcs, was just another Waiting for Goku moment that OP does all the time, expressed in such a way that even haki is something that requires concentration and application, so even when everybody can use it, Oda can still restrict it when he needs to. I don't think anyone disagrees with this but "I overexerted myself, need to catch my breath!" works so much better than "its exactly five minutes until I have enough care to keep fighting!" Makes me wonder about the original text, but in general being able to "run out" or needing to "recharge" what is supposed to be willpower is a little goofy and having an exact time limit is too!
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Oct 7, 2016 21:30
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Death Bot posted:I don't think anyone disagrees with this but "I overexerted myself, need to catch my breath!" works so much better than "its exactly five minutes until I have enough care to keep fighting!" You ever try to will yourself through multiple double shifts in a row? Haki is like that: you can start out with all the drive and will in the world, but eventually you'll feel drained and exhausted. Haki is just a feeling of determination that's made manifest and able to exert a magical force on yourself and the world around you for people strong enough to project it and manipulate it.
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Oct 7, 2016 22:23
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why does it have to be named and quantified
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Oct 7, 2016 22:34
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I don't get what's so difficult to get about this. You guys are all asking the same question. It's oddium posted:why does it have to be named and quantified named and quantified because it's, say it with me, not willpower. I know that's the word, but it's pretty clearly, by application, a measurable magic psychic armor you put on stuff. It's just what Oda calls it. It's why, when Rayleigh tells Luffy about it, he says "Hey there's this stuff called haki" and Luffy doesn't say, "Yeah, willpower, I've been using that all my life!". You can put less or more to make it stronger, depending on your control. No, you do not have a certain amount, like 5000, and Doflamingo had 4500, so you win, it's more like taking a deep breath. Swimmers and people who train for it can take larger, deeper, breaths and exhale with more force. You can tire out of taking deep breaths and need time to recover, by that Oda's saying that while haki isn't something that costs PP to use, it's not something you can just use forever either. It has limits. Some people really can't seem to wrap their minds around this. Exact time limit is pretty balls, yeah, but TBH without it there's no tension. "Wait for Luffy" isn't as cool as "Wait for Luffy for literally ten seconds more" as you're getting stabbed up by haki-infused strings protecting him.
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Oct 7, 2016 23:35
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Things could at least get translated as 'a few seconds more' rather than 'ten seconds longer'. Even just adding an extra word would make it so much more tolerable, like "about/roughly/approximately/around/within/at least five minutes!" gives you a good sense of the timeframe without using the dread word 'exactly', although frankly translators should be picking up on this.
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Oct 7, 2016 23:46
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pretty sure by "why" it was rhetorical because quantifying and naming poo poo just turns it into a video game where if you hit level 50 you gain an ability, that's bad writing
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Oct 7, 2016 23:52
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Doctor_Fruitbat posted:Things could at least get translated as 'a few seconds more' rather than 'ten seconds longer'. Even just adding an extra word would make it so much more tolerable, like "about/roughly/approximately/around/within/at least five minutes!" gives you a good sense of the timeframe without using the dread word 'exactly', although frankly translators should be picking up on this. I just choose to forget Luffy needed a 10 minute nap.
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Oct 7, 2016 23:57
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Ryaomon posted:pretty sure by "why" it was rhetorical because quantifying and naming poo poo just turns it into a video game where if you hit level 50 you gain an ability, that's bad writing one piece was a gameboy all along
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Oct 8, 2016 01:38
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me: oh man. zoro can cut anything just from being so in tune with the universe. usopp, what a sniper. can see through things he's so good. luffy can knock punks out with his presence, just like shanks did on the ship. rayleigh... can hit logias !! anyone strong and cool can !!  oda: did you know: there's a generic reason why they can do this me: oh that's cool oda. thanks. for one piece, not for the explanation of cool stuff. one piece rules oda: you can train in it me: oda oda: there's three main types
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Oct 8, 2016 01:44
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oddium posted:me: oh man. zoro can cut anything just from being so in tune with the universe. usopp, what a sniper. can see through things he's so good. luffy can knock punks out with his presence, just like shanks did on the ship. rayleigh... can hit logias !! anyone strong and cool can !! Oda is Rayleigh.
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Oct 8, 2016 02:08
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I find it really confusing that everyone is brushing off CoC like its become irrelevant. It's not currently relevant, but it has clearly been set up as a plot tool to unravel the Will of the D, which is clearly the main story.
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Oct 8, 2016 02:48
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Ubiquitus posted:I find it really confusing that everyone is brushing off CoC like its become irrelevant. It's not currently relevant, but it has clearly been set up as a plot tool to unravel the Will of the D, which is clearly the main story. What if the Will of D ends up being a special fourth kind of Haki unique to one person currently living meant to be the predestined Pirate King because of bloodlines and inherited will and poo poo? That, or it's just a metaphor for the pent-up frustrations and weight of history of the society that was suppressed during the Void Century that will finally bear fruit with Luffy actions and presumably finding the One Piece. Teriyaki Koinku fucked around with this message at 03:53 on Oct 8, 2016 |
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Oct 8, 2016 03:45
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do u gain haki from beating other powerful users imo its like xp u get from beating that bad dudes that u can turn into power
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Oct 8, 2016 05:10
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All magic systems must be like Malazan. Maybe Gol D. Rogers blood is what fuels Haki!!!!
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Oct 8, 2016 05:54
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verbal enema posted:do u gain haki from beating other powerful users you gain haki by going to an island full of lesbians, it's very very clear.
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Oct 8, 2016 05:56
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i want zorak to come back and give a personal apology to everyone he probated for disagreeing with him about haki
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Oct 8, 2016 06:01
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oddium posted:it was cool when zoro could hear the breath of all things or usopp was just an insanely good sniper. now it's something anyone can train in. in next year's one piece: the climatact has been mass produced, everyone can talk to animals, anyone can ignite a limb through haki oddium posted:me: oh man. zoro can cut anything just from being so in tune with the universe. usopp, what a sniper. can see through things he's so good. luffy can knock punks out with his presence, just like shanks did on the ship. rayleigh... can hit logias !! anyone strong and cool can !! It's a logia, because you just turn into a salt golem
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Oct 8, 2016 06:25
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Advice posted:I don't get what's so difficult to get about this. You guys are all asking the same question. It's Except the source of hakai pretty clearly is willpower it's not the exact same thing but there's a correlation which we saw from usopp's acquiring of observation hakai due to his determination to hit sugar there is a reason it's named the way it is (oda typically names things for a reason)
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Oct 8, 2016 06:42
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Haki is magic armor and seeing the future. Willpower is its source. Mystery solved
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Oct 8, 2016 12:16
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Captain Invictus posted:Oddium, user of the salt-salt fruit why don't you use the kiss-kiss fruit to kiss my grits
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Oct 8, 2016 12:49
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Lpzie posted:All magic systems must be like Malazan. Maybe Gol D. Rogers blood is what fuels Haki!!!! can't wait for most of the cast to die and the ones that don't to be very depressed about it
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Oct 8, 2016 13:00
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Elfgames posted:Except the source of hakai pretty clearly is willpower it's not the exact same thing but there's a correlation which we saw from usopp's acquiring of observation hakai due to his determination to hit sugar there is a reason it's named the way it is (oda typically names things for a reason) But how is this different from Goku acquiring Super Saiyan due to his determination to beat Frieza? Characters unlocking new powers or abilities during the climax of an arc just in time to beat the bad guys is like textbook shonen. I don't get why you guys see this as different. Haki is what it's called but it's treated exactly the same as every other series' magic thing. Bisse posted:Haki is magic armor and seeing the future. Willpower is its source. Mystery solved Perfect post.
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Oct 8, 2016 19:14
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Advice posted:But how is this different from Goku acquiring Super Saiyan due to his determination to beat Frieza? Characters unlocking new powers or abilities during the climax of an arc just in time to beat the bad guys is like textbook shonen. I don't get why you guys see this as different. Haki is what it's called but it's treated exactly the same as every other series' magic thing. oda foreshadows many of his dumb powerups and glosses over the training it takes to achieve them. its about execution and not the idea itself.
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Oct 8, 2016 19:22
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I'm a big shounen fan, so I love punch magic. Wuxia kung fu powers are the poo poo and magic is cool.
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Oct 8, 2016 19:28
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Rohan Kishibe posted:I'm a big shounen fan, so I love punch magic. Wuxia kung fu powers are the poo poo and magic is cool.  Source: see my avatar <----
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Oct 9, 2016 00:05
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Haki is a metaphor for willpower.
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Oct 9, 2016 01:40
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What happened to Zorak? I took a break from the site when he left. People were probated for talking about Haki?
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Oct 9, 2016 02:59
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Drink Top posted:What happened to Zorak? I took a break from the site when he left. People were probated for talking about Haki? he died like two weeks ago. oh, anime mod zorak. he sucked.
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Oct 9, 2016 03:01
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In this week's jojo, crunchy roll translated nakama as comrade.
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Oct 9, 2016 03:51
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