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Perfect Potato posted:Almost the entirety of the first case 2 trial is Wesley the Panty Snatcher, case 2 is not Good I'm sorry you hate good witnesses. Momomo posted:Having the assistant be the killer is not a good plot twist when you don't even know the assistant at all. The drama in 4-1 fell completely flat to me because of that, and felt more like a cheap twist. The twist was that you obviously thought Olga was the killer (she even has a costume change!) until Phoenix drops the bomb.
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Oct 12, 2016 15:28
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Nate RFB posted:It's super splitting hairs because I do think it's still kind of mediocre, but yeah I'd give the nod to AAI1 over AA4. There's nothing inherently "bad" about AAI1 to me, it's just kind of boring at times and the final case drags (but still has some decent parts!!). There's very little redeemable about any of the AA4 cases outside of the first one, and the only real nice thing I can say about the game is that it has good music. AAI1 brought back Sal Manella
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Oct 12, 2016 15:42
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I remember quite liking case 2. The witness was lying for an actual reason and provided key info. Incidentally I did like the 3D crimescenes thing, they could probably make it more detailed if they brought it back.
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Oct 12, 2016 17:45
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Not a fan of AA4 at all, really, but I do at least appreciate how it actually had some stuff happen to the characters in-between games with the timeskip and all. It does get a little annoying how the games seem completely unwilling sometimes to have any major character development for most of the established characters. See, for example, Pearl showing up in AA5 and being almost exactly the same. Compare to AA4, where Ema shows up and is now a bitter detective who failed her forensic exams and hates her boss, which is both entertaining and more interesting to see than 'Ema passed her exams and is happy now'. Perhaps they just feel the character arcs of Phoenix and such are finished, and they don't really need to do anything else, which'd be fine, but he really shouldn't take the position of protagonist as much as he does if that's the case.
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Oct 12, 2016 17:48
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I enjoyed fingerprinting and the evidence games in Apollo Justice and I'm not sure how they managed to royally gently caress it up in AA6
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Oct 12, 2016 17:49
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Fingerprinting is seriously the worst part of Spirit of Justice. All (3?) times in the game that you have to fingerprint had completely shut down my good and excited mood for the game, and made quit playing for a period
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Oct 12, 2016 17:50
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gently caress that suitcase
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Oct 12, 2016 17:51
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smenj posted:Compare to AA4, where Ema shows up and is now a bitter detective who failed her forensic exams and hates her boss, which is both entertaining and more interesting to see than 'Ema passed her exams and is happy now'. If by "entertaining and more interesting" you mean "awful and completely annoying," then yes, I agree
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Oct 12, 2016 17:53
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Suffering is not necessarily good writing.
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Oct 12, 2016 17:57
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Pollyanna posted:and AA3 was kind of mediocre all around, especially the final case. 
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Oct 12, 2016 17:59
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Compare: Apollo in AA5, where his best friend got murdered and he is suffering because not only is he dead, but he severely doesn't want to suspect Athena killed him but he has to cover one of his eyes because he knows Athena is hiding something, to Ema in AA4 where she's like "UGH I'm stuck in this position forever life is terrible I am suffering, I'm eating snackoos now so gently caress off and let me suffer"
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Oct 12, 2016 18:00
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Pollyanna posted:Suffering is not necessarily good writing. Hey, I'm not saying anyone has to suffer necessarily or anything like that, it was just nice to see some unexpected things happen to the characters for a change. I'm not a fan of Phoenix getting disbarred for example. I thought it was really silly and screwed up his whole character arc from the first three games. But hey, we got hobo Phoenix and Trucy and all as a result, as opposed to 'It's seven years later and Phoenix is still exactly the same', which was nice. EDIT: Alfalfa The Roach posted:Compare: Apollo in AA5, where his best friend got murdered and he is suffering because not only is he dead, but he severely doesn't want to suspect Athena killed him but he has to cover one of his eyes because he knows Athena is hiding something, to Ema in AA4 where she's like "UGH I'm stuck in this position forever life is terrible I am suffering, I'm eating snackoos now so gently caress off and let me suffer" To be fair it's been aaaages since I played AA4. I just remember finding all that funny at the time. It could've been much worse than I'm remembering.
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Oct 12, 2016 18:02
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Hobo Phoenix is goddamn terrible though And just because something is different doesn't mean it'll be good. If that were the case then everyone would've actually liked The Phantom Menace
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Oct 12, 2016 18:10
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AJ Ema is actually supremely good and she's only grumpy when Klavier gives her poo poo postings and withholds key information for shits and giggles. She's her old self when she actually gets to do forensics, and she has a good working relationship with Apollo because they get along and respect each other. You can be a complete, well-rounded character without being steeped in high-stakes personal drama and tragic tortured history.
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Oct 12, 2016 18:26
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Alfalfa The Roach posted:Compare: Apollo in AA5, where his best friend got murdered and he is suffering because not only is he dead, but he severely doesn't want to suspect Athena killed him but he has to cover one of his eyes because he knows Athena is hiding something, to Ema in AA4 where she's like "UGH I'm stuck in this position forever life is terrible I am suffering, I'm eating snackoos now so gently caress off and let me suffer" It's even more baffling because they went out of their way to avoid even mentioning Maya by name so the whole "Maya 2.0" is moot anyway.
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Oct 12, 2016 18:27
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I really liked that Ema had to try a bunch of times before she got her dream job. For once a character isn't a prodigy right off the bat, and has to take a job they don't really like. I thought it was weird that her job ended up being exactly the same in practice than her work as a detective, though.
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Oct 12, 2016 18:41
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I miss Bobby Fulbright. The image in my head of him sticking out his head out of a tall building's window to yell "IN JUSTICE WE TRUST" to Apollo below is still amazing to me.
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Oct 12, 2016 18:45
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Still not sure why they had to totally maul Phoenix's character in AA4 though. You could still totally have him be setting up some vast trap to catch Kristoph while keeping true to his character. The end of Rise from the Ashes was a good example of Phoenix clearly outsmarting his opponent with the system, I think something in that vein would have played better.
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Oct 12, 2016 19:49
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I enjoy the whole series. I'm the problem. Come fight me.  ... that video in AJ though...
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Oct 12, 2016 20:22
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Let's watch it one more time!
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Oct 12, 2016 20:47
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https://twitter.com/aceattorneygame/status/786295387661279233
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Oct 12, 2016 21:01
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Alfalfa The Roach posted:If by "entertaining and more interesting" you mean "awful and completely annoying," then yes, I agree She's funny and gets along very well with Apollo and Trucy, and has one of the best working relationships with the defence out of all the detectives in the series (except probably Gumshoe in AA3) which is something AA6 followed up on and I enjoyed that. Also she and Apollo basically gossip about how much they dislike Klavier and his stupid outfit and his stupid music and it's very good.
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Oct 12, 2016 21:23
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SyntheticPolygon posted:She's funny and gets along very well with Apollo and Trucy, and has one of the best working relationships with the defence out of all the detectives in the series (except probably Gumshoe in AA3) which is something AA6 followed up on and I enjoyed that. Also she and Apollo basically gossip about how much they dislike Klavier and his stupid outfit and his stupid music and it's very good. For what it's worth, I like how AA6 handled Ema a lot more; snackoos being reduced to a form of stress relief is a plus, but I prefer how invested she was in her job while still finding the time to talk smack about Nahyuta when he wasn't there
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Oct 12, 2016 21:39
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Alfalfa The Roach posted:For what it's worth, I like how AA6 handled Ema a lot more; snackoos being reduced to a form of stress relief is a plus, but I prefer how invested she was in her job while still finding the time to talk smack about Nahyuta when he wasn't there Yeah, I liked her in AA6 too. I kinda wish she got to do more stuff though, but it was interesting to have a detective who was pretty much always far more solidly behind the defence than the prosecution.
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Oct 12, 2016 21:47
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fruit on the bottom posted:Still not sure why they had to totally maul Phoenix's character in AA4 though. You could still totally have him be setting up some vast trap to catch Kristoph while keeping true to his character. Phoenix got a guilty man off the hook and falsified evidence to trick another dude into admitting his guilt in AA3.
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Oct 12, 2016 22:21
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Zulily Zoetrope posted:Phoenix got a guilty man off the hook and falsified evidence to trick another dude into admitting his guilt in AA3. Perhaps I'm misremembering, but if you're talking about case 3 (with impostor Phoenix), then Phoenix doesn't falsify anything. As I recall, he presents the killer with a bottle, and then the killer goes off on a rant about how the bottle of poison used to kill the victim was different one, and then Phoenix told him that he could've only known that if he was the killer. No fake evidence needed. Unless we're saying that Phoenix pretending he thinks the green bottle is the poison one is itself falsifying evidence.
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Oct 12, 2016 22:44
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fruit on the bottom posted:Let's watch it one more time! AA6 makes you do that in all but one case yet people seem to like it now.
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Oct 12, 2016 22:46
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fruit on the bottom posted:Let's watch it one more time! Wait, didn't someone say that to me before...? *flashback*
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Oct 12, 2016 22:50
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smenj posted:Perhaps I'm misremembering, but if you're talking about case 3 (with impostor Phoenix), then Phoenix doesn't falsify anything. As I recall, he presents the killer with a bottle, and then the killer goes off on a rant about how the bottle of poison used to kill the victim was different one, and then Phoenix told him that he could've only known that if he was the killer. No fake evidence needed. Unless we're saying that Phoenix pretending he thinks the green bottle is the poison one is itself falsifying evidence. It works the same way in AA4. The card with blood was never used as evidence, it was a bluff just like the bottle, since Kristoph immediately said it was inadmissible. Judge: "Hm well do you have any idea defense?" Apollo: "Uh well maybe some blood ended up on a card, just like this one I have here?" Judge: "Woah is that the card?!?!" Kristoph: "No that's impossible!!" Phoenix: "orly funny you say that HMMMM"
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Oct 12, 2016 22:55
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smenj posted:Perhaps I'm misremembering, but if you're talking about case 3 (with impostor Phoenix), then Phoenix doesn't falsify anything. As I recall, he presents the killer with a bottle, and then the killer goes off on a rant about how the bottle of poison used to kill the victim was different one, and then Phoenix told him that he could've only known that if he was the killer. No fake evidence needed. Unless we're saying that Phoenix pretending he thinks the green bottle is the poison one is itself falsifying evidence. Isn't that technically what he does in 4-1, too? I don't think he or Apollo ever outright claim that the card was actually evidence. Apollo was likely going to, but Wright interrupted before he could do that. Wright just uses it as a prop to explain his theory about why the wrong card was on the table. Though the judge might very well have thought that it was the actual card taken from the scene. e: f;b
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Oct 12, 2016 22:55
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Terper posted:Phoenix: "orly funny you say that HMMMM" Olga: "I didn't say anything, though!"
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Oct 12, 2016 22:55
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Terper posted:It works the same way in AA4. The card with blood was never used as evidence, it was a bluff just like the bottle, since Kristoph immediately said it was inadmissible.
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Oct 12, 2016 23:07
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Death Priest posted:AA6 makes you do that in all but one case yet people seem to like it now.
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Oct 12, 2016 23:17
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Irony Be My Shield posted:Because it's implemented way better. I disagree but I know my opinion's in the minority. I enjoyed the US cases a lot more because they had no divination séances.
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Oct 12, 2016 23:50
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Zulily Zoetrope posted:Phoenix got a guilty man off the hook and falsified evidence to trick another dude into admitting his guilt in AA3. This too! But even then, still our Phoenix. It's a small complaint, since I think the following games have found a good balance (Phoenix is generally pretty on the ball, but not Light Yagami either) but still
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Oct 13, 2016 00:06
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Zaa Boogie posted:I enjoy the whole series. I'm the problem. I do too. I'll fight them with you! Though I go one step further. I never minded the video thing. I thought it was cool how I'd notice different things about the video every time I watched it again. Your perception of it completely changes over the course of the case, and I thought that was neat. Also I like Klavier and his air-guitaring faux German shenanigans. He's funny.
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Oct 13, 2016 12:47
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Death Priest posted:I disagree but I know my opinion's in the minority.
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Oct 13, 2016 13:10
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Irony Be My Shield posted:Even if you don't like the video sections of SoJ they are still clearly implemented way better because you can skip backwards and forwards and you aren't forced to watch them all the way through multiple times. So the complaints from AJ don't really apply anymore. Yeah but how many loving flashbacks does SoJ have? I swear there are a forced 4+ flashbacks between every two save points in the game. I remember thinking "when did this become a game for filthy casuals??"
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Oct 13, 2016 20:22
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jarbv posted:I remember thinking "when did this become a game for filthy casuals??" AA5  but yeah, flashbacks were a huge distraction, which didn't make sense since the material for each case was really gripping.
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Oct 14, 2016 00:03
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Zaa Boogie posted:I enjoy the whole series. I'm the problem. It's because I love the series so loving much that I criticize its faults. Also I think this game is more difficult than DD and the Edgeworth games, barring that bizarrely obtuse testimony at the end of AAI-3.
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Oct 14, 2016 00:07
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