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Gonz posted:Wesley Crusher: Yup. Wesley might have consented? Also Picard should probably count as raped. Maybe even Odo too.
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Oct 14, 2016 17:41
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Keiko was possessed by a demon.
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Oct 14, 2016 17:42
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Also I think we all got visually raped when that one guy turns into a glowing body suit and you can totally see his business
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Oct 14, 2016 17:42
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So I was watching some random DS9 episodes last night, finishing with Tacking Into the Wind, and I have to say ... as great as DS9 is, I really don't care for the way Gowron was handled at the end. He just felt like a completely different character than the one who fought the Klingon Civil War.
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Oct 14, 2016 18:54
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Timby posted:So I was watching some random DS9 episodes last night, finishing with Tacking Into the Wind, and I have to say ... as great as DS9 is, I really don't care for the way Gowron was handled at the end. He just felt like a completely different character than the one who fought the Klingon Civil War. I think he was just honestly terrified of losing power, Martok was seen as too much of a threat and he assumed everyone else was like him, willing to do anything for power.
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Oct 14, 2016 18:56
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Big Mean Jerk posted:Someone update that "Enterprise A is garbage" gif with philosophy chat 
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Oct 14, 2016 19:43
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Baronjutter posted:I think he was just honestly terrified of losing power, Martok was seen as too much of a threat and he assumed everyone else was like him, willing to do anything for power. Maybe I need to watch the Klingon episodes of DS9 again, but it just felt like Gowron randomly switched from being a mildly paranoid leader to a jabbering lunatic. And then Sisko basically tells Worf, "Yo, go wreck his poo poo," and I'm like 
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Oct 14, 2016 20:59
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Oct 14, 2016 21:00
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Gonz posted:Wesley Crusher: Yup. Wesley Crusher was well over the age of consent when he left with the Traveler in the seventh season.
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Oct 14, 2016 21:08
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Timby posted:Maybe I need to watch the Klingon episodes of DS9 again, but it just felt like Gowron randomly switched from being a mildly paranoid leader to a jabbering lunatic. And then Sisko basically tells Worf, "Yo, go wreck his poo poo," and I'm like If I remember right, Gowron's big issue in DS9 was that he was basically meddling in fleet operations and trying to order a lot of high-risk missions in hopes of getting a big win and getting glory for himself. And that is backed up a little by TNG, when we hear in Unification that Gowron's already propagandizing his victory over the Duras sisters as purely his genius and handily omitting the Federation's assistance.
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Oct 14, 2016 21:47
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Farmer Crack-rear end posted:If I remember right, Gowron's big issue in DS9 was that he was basically meddling in fleet operations and trying to order a lot of high-risk missions in hopes of getting a big win and getting glory for himself. And that is backed up a little by TNG, when we hear in Unification that Gowron's already propagandizing his victory over the Duras sisters as purely his genius and handily omitting the Federation's assistance. That last part is understandable, since the Duras family had been aided by the Romulans for years (and it becoming public is why the Duras lost their support from the hardliners), and trumpeting that the Federation played a large part in resolving the civil war probably wouldn't have helped Gowron's position.
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Oct 14, 2016 21:51
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Farmer Crack-rear end posted:Wesley Crusher was well over the age of consent when he left with the Traveler in the seventh season. It's called grooming.
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Oct 14, 2016 21:52
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Blade_of_tyshalle posted:It's called grooming. I think grooming entails just a little more than telling a teenager they're special a few times and then popping back a few years later to help save his mom from a subspace bubble.
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Oct 14, 2016 21:57
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He took him on a super space ride.
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Oct 14, 2016 21:58
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Farmer Crack-rear end posted:I think grooming entails just a little more than telling a teenager they're special a few times and then popping back a few years later to help save his mom from a subspace bubble. He also pretended to be a space native to lure Wesley away. hosed up, truth.
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Oct 14, 2016 22:02
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Also, was The Fifty-Year Mission full of bullshit, or was that These Are The Voyages that I'm remembering? (or are they both bad?)
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Oct 14, 2016 22:03
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I'm really enjoying fifty year mission so far, don't know how true it is, but it seems to be entirely made up of quotes and interviews for the book.
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Oct 14, 2016 22:06
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Big Mean Jerk posted:Someone update that "Enterprise A is garbage" gif with philosophy chat Well to be honest the 30 seconds we got of the Kelvin Universe Enterprise-A, they might be right.
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Oct 14, 2016 22:26
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Farmer Crack-rear end posted:Also, was The Fifty-Year Mission full of bullshit, or was that These Are The Voyages that I'm remembering? (or are they both bad?) These Are The Voyages is completely full of poo poo, to the point that it makes Shatner's Star Trek Memories / Movie Memories seem authoritative (and considering how full of poo poo those books are, that's no small achievement). Many of the quoted "memos" are totally fabricated and much of the narrative is just Cushman pulling crap out of his rear end to pad his page count. I haven't hit The Fifty Year Mission yet (waiting for it to arrive at my library since funds are tight) but from most reviews it seems to be decent, and probably a good companion to Inside Star Trek: The Real Story. Timby fucked around with this message at 22:46 on Oct 14, 2016 |
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Oct 14, 2016 22:44
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Nitrousoxide posted:Just wait until you get to the mirror universe episode in season 4. I just got to these episodes in my own binge and was disappointed by the music choice for the intro. Instead of sounding dark, it should have gotten even more hilariously upbeat as it started showing images and clips that were increasingly grim and horrific.
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Oct 14, 2016 23:48
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Joe Mallozzi (showrunner of Dark Matter and originally, SG1) mentioned on his blog that the Star Trek series is currently shooting in Montreal, which cost Dark Matter some crew and construction personal.
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Oct 15, 2016 00:21
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Fifty Year Mission is quite good and is nearly all direct quotes from cast and crew both living and dead.
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Oct 15, 2016 00:21
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Timby posted:I haven't hit The Fifty Year Mission yet (waiting for it to arrive at my library since funds are tight) but from most reviews it seems to be decent, and probably a good companion to Inside Star Trek: The Real Story. CaveGrinch posted:Fifty Year Mission is quite good and is nearly all direct quotes from cast and crew both living and dead. Awesome, thanks. I'll put that on my holiday wishlist then. 
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Oct 15, 2016 00:27
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I've been away from the thread for awhile, but I just wanted to say that I hope that The Greatest Generation podcast is a mainstay of talk/recommendations in this thread now... it's the best.
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Oct 15, 2016 00:46
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Timby posted:Maybe I need to watch the Klingon episodes of DS9 again, but it just felt like Gowron randomly switched from being a mildly paranoid leader to a jabbering lunatic. To be fair, that switch happens all the time.
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Oct 15, 2016 01:49
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Hey why is Commodore Bob Wesley from TOS "The Ultimate Computer" such an absolute douchebag and idiot? Sorry, I'm just watching this episode and it's just damned absurd. I mean, he starts the episode off by having the Enterprise ditch all but 20 of its crew because "The M5 doesn't need anymore than that to run a starhip  " clearly planning on every single thing going right in this "first test run". Which I suppose is also why he doesn't put his shields up during the wargames, either.But anyway! He tells Kirk that getting to test the M5 is a "singular honor" for Kirk and grins as he tells him that he's got the best job ever, "sitting back and letting the computer do all the work," as he smiles again and pats his buddy on the back. Then after the first of the M5 tests are successful, he looks sadly at Kirk and "gives his regards to Captain Dunsel," which is bizarre and meaningless as we don't know what the gently caress a Dunsel is. Spock enlightens us and McCoy that it's a nautical term for something superfluous or outdated, so Commodore Wesley was basically like "sorry man now you're captain useless just jokin' about that honor stuff  ". It always seemed pretty bizarre and disjointed to me. I dunno. In general though, I like the episodes that deal with the 1960's idea of computers as this potentially unknown threat to human civilization, because it's so incongruous and bizarre compared to how we're taught and conditioned to view the computer today. Compare a "court-martial" episode from TOS ("Court Martial") and one from TNG ("The Measure of a Man"). Both of the trials deal, on some level, with the rights of man versus machine - as the critical witness against Kirk in Court Martial is the Enterprise computer, we are treated to a speech from Kirk's lawyer about how "A Machine has no rights, but a man must!" and similar such things - the true danger being the oppression of the machine. And The Measure of a Man, well, we all know what that's about - and how it displays a far more modern and accurate depiction of how we might actually have to cope with sentient machines on a legal basis. Other episodes from TOS of course deal with the oppressiveness of machines - notably "The Return of the Archons," which is one of my all-time favorite episodes regardless of politics. The Apple is another one, I think. You could throw Android episodes like "What Are Little Girls Made Of?" and "I, Mudd" in there too, I think. One of the things I love about ALL these episodes I've mentioned (including The Ultimate Computer) is that in each and every one Kirk displays his uncanny ability to "talk" a computer into death or insanity using logic/illogic. Personally, I always thought it was Spock who should have had this ability - or at least he could have taken a turn at talking a machine into blowing itself up, Kirk does it often enough. kaworu fucked around with this message at 02:42 on Oct 15, 2016 |
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Oct 15, 2016 02:39
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CaveGrinch posted:Fifty Year Mission is quite good and is nearly all direct quotes from cast and crew both living and dead. I also had no idea that apparently Wrath of Khan would have probably never been made had Nick Meyer not stepped in and churned out the script in 10 days. Everyone involved is still not sure how he managed to pull that off considering they couldn't come up with a coherent script in something like 2 years. Some other interesting notes (I'm sure some of this was probably known already but I was not aware): -The back and forth between the end of Season 3 of TOS and the release of TMP over whether the show should continue with a new TV season or do a feature film. There were so many abandoned script ideas that nearly got made. In the end a lot of the concepts from Phase II were melded in to TMP (characters like Ilia and Decker, Spock initially not being onboard Enterprise, etc). -TMP was a giant wreck of a production, to the point where the director didn't get to see the film until the premiere. The production got delayed due to issues with the effects studio for awhile which almost caused the whole thing to come crashing down. All of these issues led to Harve Bennett coming onboard after the film came out, which in turn led to some of the better ST films. -Everyone loved working for Nimoy when he was directing ST3 and 4 -Harve Bennett left the franchise because the studio wouldn't guarantee that he would get his Starfleet Academy prequel proposal made. Originally that was going to be released before ST6 but that changed, which led to him quitting. A lot of concepts from the abandoned prequel were resurrected for ST09. -George Takei secretly resenting Walter Koenig for some years because Koenig took screen time meant for Sulu during Season 2 of TOS. Takei was off filming another TV show so they brought in Koenig. I guess Koenig only found out about this relatively recently? -A lot of evidence throughout the book from various sources reiterating how much Nimoy did for the franchise as a whole, since at certain times he may have been responsible for saving it.
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Oct 15, 2016 04:29
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FlamingLiberal posted:-The back and forth between the end of Season 3 of TOS and the release of TMP over whether the show should continue with a new TV season or do a feature film. There were so many abandoned script ideas that nearly got made. In the end a lot of the concepts from Phase II were melded in to TMP (characters like Ilia and Decker, Spock initially not being onboard Enterprise, etc). Decker and Xon also became Riker and Data later on. FlamingLiberal posted:-A lot of evidence throughout the book from various sources reiterating how much Nimoy did for the franchise as a whole, since at certain times he may have been responsible for saving it. TOS wouldn't be nearly the hit it was without Spock there, either. He was pretty much the star, which bit Shatner bad.
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Oct 15, 2016 04:38
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I didn't realize how he had a lot of input on the films as well. Of course at one point they were getting ready to do TMP without him. Then I think there was some idea to have him die or disappear very early in the film since I guess this was at the time Nimoy was having conflicting emotions on what to do with the character. If I remember correctly he was also responsible for bringing Nick Meyer onboard for Wrath of Khan.
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Oct 15, 2016 04:43
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It isn't really surprising, you can fairly easily see the differences between the two men. Shatner was a diva, had always been a bit of diva, and was more of a diva after TOS. One could argue that he is almost the quintessential (straight) male diva, in many respects. Nimoy, on the other hand, comes across as a respectful and somewhat introverted, thoughtful man who clearly had the intelligence to understand his own strengths and weaknesses and the effect that being 'Spock' had on his career, and he really made it work (unlike many hopelessly typecast actors) and it's interesting to hear just how much he had to do with keeping the success of Star Trek of going during some of the darker years. People forget that Nimoy established a reputation as a pretty capable director. Incidentally, he also directed the highest-grossing film of 1987 - Three Men and a Baby (not really my personal cup of tea) but an interesting footnote to his career, regardless.
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Oct 15, 2016 05:51
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Timby posted:Shatner's delivery is rather terrible in almost all of his dialogue in both of Nimoy's films. Nimoy just had no idea how to handle him and just let him do his thing, and it really hurt both films (both Search for Spock and Voyage Home have much deeper underlying problems, but Shatner's performances really don't help). I know this is old as gently caress, but I've heard that with Shatner you just need to do take after take after take until he gets bored and does what what the director wants.
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Oct 15, 2016 06:03
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thexerox123 posted:I've been away from the thread for awhile, but I just wanted to say that I hope that The Greatest Generation podcast is a mainstay of talk/recommendations in this thread now... it's the best. I occasionally think about changing my username to Drunk Shimoda.
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Oct 15, 2016 06:29
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Railing Kill posted:Hey gang, this episode of ENT is-- National average is just shy of 20%. What is it about Space in the utopian future that causes so much rape?
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Oct 15, 2016 08:23
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, although I don't think they intended this to be as creepy as it was
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There was the time Trip got raped.
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Oct 15, 2016 08:31
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Wasn't there a couple episodes of ToS where the men got mindcontrolled by hot babes?
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Oct 15, 2016 09:23
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There's definitely an Enterprise episode about it. I liked that twist.
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Oct 15, 2016 09:43
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kaworu posted:Then after the first of the M5 tests are successful, he looks sadly at Kirk and "gives his regards to Captain Dunsel," which is bizarre and meaningless as we don't know what the gently caress a Dunsel is. Spock enlightens us and McCoy that it's a nautical term for something superfluous or outdated, so Commodore Wesley was basically like "sorry man now you're captain useless just jokin' about that honor stuff To be fair it is an actual word
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Oct 15, 2016 11:00
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Railing Kill posted:I don't think I'm oversensitive about unpleasant topics in TV. Plot is conflict, and I wouldn't mind a plot about rape if it a) were handled with the proper weight and consequence, and b) we're done to death. Unfortunately, there are more major female characters who are raped in one way or another in Trek than aren't. That's hosed up. It's at best lazy, and at worst callous. It's a stupid tired story device that women get sci-fi raped and it drives me up a tree that it's still in use. Talking about it from purely a consent issue, did Janeway ever say "I would love to have sex as a lizard"? I'm also pretty wary of "pretending to be my mirror universe counterpart and sleeping with someone there".
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Oct 15, 2016 11:25
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I don't think we can make assumptions about the lizards
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Oct 15, 2016 11:25
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nerdman42 posted:It's a stupid tired story device that women get sci-fi raped and it drives me up a tree that it's still in use. Oh yeah! I forgot about "Threshold" (somehow). We can add Janeway to that list. I didn't include guys that get raped, partly because my point was about how females get treated in sci fi, and partly because the write-up was already depressing enough as it is. but, hey, at least Trip gets date-raped before anyone else in ENT does! Progress!   Also of note: most of DS9's female characters aren't raped. Kira is the only one on the list, and that's only because Dukat tries to creep on her and doesn't get anywhere with his Amon Goeth impression. DS9 has every reason to imply some sort of awful poo poo in Kira's past and yet they don't even do that. Go DS9. Best Trek.
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Oct 15, 2016 11:38
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