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iospace posted:JFK won in 1960? And probably rigged the election in Illinois, yeah. Newt meant 'had the election stolen (from him).' LBJ knew how to rig the Texas election, having rigged it to get into the Senate years before.
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Oct 16, 2016 16:40
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Zwabu posted:And gently caress Alternative Timeline Newt too! All of them! Somewhere out there is a world where Nixon won and Emperor Gingrich rules from his moon castle.
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Oct 16, 2016 16:41
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I'm not sure an election where like, one of your only positives is that your opponent's offices were basically robbed by spies is the one to try to rehabilitate Nixon in, GOP.
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Oct 16, 2016 16:42
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CharlestheHammer posted:I hate to tell you this but historically freedom of speech is kind of optional and pretending that actually using it to protect minorities now is gonna hinder them later kind of ignores everything America has been about for the past two hundred years. Suppressing the freedom of speech in order to try to eliminate authoritarianism, I can't see any way this could possibly backfire. 
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Oct 16, 2016 16:42
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Alright, I'd been doing okay keeping up with this thread until the past 24 hours or so. What'd I miss? This thread could use like a regular 8-hour summary.
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Oct 16, 2016 16:43
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iospace posted:Ignore Reuters/Ipsos state polls. They're the LAT of state polls. Why? They ask where the person they're polling lives, and once they get enough people to have a It's a national poll. But yeah I agree. Not all polls are equally. God drat do I loving hate libertarians. Lord Hydronium posted:Agreed, but what do you think about his poll numbers? 
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Oct 16, 2016 16:43
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It's getting annoying how the Reasonable conservatives are now saying "hey hey Trump calling the election rigged and the media in the tank for his opponent is totally crazy, but by the way the media is really biased in favor of the Democrats and we have to be wary of voter fraud." They are saying the same loving thing as Trump but he's not mincing words so now they have to start doing damage control but even then they have to still say everything is biased against them since they just can't help themselves. gently caress these "moderate" Republicans, they are just as much to blame for Trump as the deplorables. They desperately want to pretend they aren't on the wrong side of history and erase their past but still saying the same stuff that led us here even now.
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Oct 16, 2016 16:44
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Feldegast42 posted:America's past history of minority suppression is exactly why I think suppressing free speech is bad. The mechanisms are already there to turn it around a law meant to squelch the KKK to instead be used against BLM, for instance. I know and my point is that is dumb
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Oct 16, 2016 16:45
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punk rebel ecks posted:It's a national poll. But yeah I agree. Not all polls are equally. Yeah, their national poll is fine.
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Oct 16, 2016 16:46
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Quorum posted:Suppressing the freedom of speech in order to try to eliminate authoritarianism, I can't see any way this could possibly backfire. The Catch-22 is that it's not worth risking a fascist government in order to simply protect the 1st Amendment. It doesn't matter where you go. These reactionaries all use the same textbook and their definitions of their political beliefs are rigorous in nature. They can't really conceal them because they'd have a really tough time differentiating them from the rest of the lunatics who ran in the primary. It's simple: If you hold these political beliefs, you are by default ineligible for office. If you're concerned about the legality of this, just look at the kind of barriers open communists had to go through here to get into Washington.
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Oct 16, 2016 16:47
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Dead Cosmonaut posted:The Catch-22 is that it's not worth risking a fascist government in order to simply protect the 1st Amendment. In a perfect world sure. This world is very much not perfect. It would get exploited
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Oct 16, 2016 16:48
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VanSandman posted:And probably rigged the election in Illinois, yeah. E: Nevermind, I see that you accounted for both Illinois and Texas
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Oct 16, 2016 16:49
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Dead Cosmonaut posted:The Catch-22 is that it's not worth risking a fascist government in order to simply protect the 1st Amendment. Friend, if you are patterning your proposed ideological suppression scheme after the Red Scare and expect this to be a point in its favor, boy, I don't know what to tell you.
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Oct 16, 2016 16:52
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Dexo posted:In a perfect world sure. This world is very much not perfect. It would get exploited I think the idealists are right this one time. The realists who are going around saying "well if Trump gets elected all of these checks on power will stop him from doing awful things" or "maybe in hindsight he may not even believe in what he said" are all dead wrong. Quorum posted:Friend, if you are patterning your proposed ideological suppression scheme after the Red Scare and expect this to be a point in its favor, boy, I don't know what to tell you. It being legal but not convincing is both necessary and sufficient. Dead Cosmonaut fucked around with this message at 16:54 on Oct 16, 2016 |
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Oct 16, 2016 16:52
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Has this story seen any traction yet? http://m.dailykos.com/story/2016/10/6/1578544/-The-Untold-Story-of-Trump-Model-Management-A-Daily-Kos-Exclusive-Part-1
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Oct 16, 2016 16:53
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If you want to another an idea you have to let it grow outside its natural bounds and then it will be obliterated by the root, this is what Taoism prescribes. The problem with this approach is it requires a baseline faith in humanity, which can be a trial in itself at times.
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Oct 16, 2016 16:54
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Groovelord Neato posted:right but i mean this is the natural evolution of the strategy. No, all this Trump poo poo is an explicit devolution of the Southern Strategy. An evolution would be to find another whistle for some new and exotic animal that all the racists would hear while the moderates go blissfully about their business of FYGM. Trump not only regressed back to just this side of yelling actual racist epitaphs, but he went and expanded the list of things being whistled about from "The Blacks" to virtually everything not Male, White, and Straight.
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Oct 16, 2016 16:54
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Dead Cosmonaut posted:I think the idealists are right this one time. The realists who are going around saying "well if Trump gets elected all of these checks on power will stop him from doing awful things" or "maybe in hindsight he may not even believe in what he said" are all dead wrong.
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Oct 16, 2016 16:55
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Dead Cosmonaut posted:The Catch-22 is that it's not worth risking an anti-cop government in order to simply protect the 1st Amendment. Dead Cosmonaut posted:The Catch-22 is that it's not worth risking a anti-white government in order to simply protect the 1st Amendment. Dead Cosmonaut posted:The Catch-22 is that it's not worth risking an atheist government in order to simply protect the 1st Amendment. Dead Cosmonaut posted:The Catch-22 is that it's not worth risking a pacifist government in order to simply protect the 1st Amendment. Dead Cosmonaut posted:The Catch-22 is that it's not worth risking blasphemy in order to simply protect the 1st Amendment. A nation that requires authoritarian suppression of fascism in order to keep it out of power is a nation that is inevitably going to see that suppression turned towards disadvantaged groups. If that sort of poo poo ever makes it through... well, I won't be around to witness it-but I hope the fauxleft fuckers who advocated for it are first against the wall the moment it turns.
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Oct 16, 2016 16:55
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Can you abandon something you never really had.
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Oct 16, 2016 16:56
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Gyges posted:No, all this Trump poo poo is an explicit devolution of the Southern Strategy. An evolution would be to find another whistle for some new and exotic animal that all the racists would hear while the moderates go blissfully about their business of FYGM. Trump not only regressed back to just this side of yelling actual racist epitaphs, but he went and expanded the list of things being whistled about from "The Blacks" to virtually everything not Male, White, and Straight. evolution sometimes reverts to older forms.
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Oct 16, 2016 16:57
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Anyone else surprised by how much media play the "Trump says elections are rigged" is getting? I expected them to maybe latch onto some wikileaks thing, but seems like a really bad idea to giving credibility...
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Oct 16, 2016 16:59
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Geoff Peterson posted:A nation that requires authoritarian suppression of fascism in order to keep it out of power is a nation that is inevitably going to see that suppression turned towards disadvantaged groups. If that sort of poo poo ever makes it through... well, I won't be around to witness it-but I hope the fauxleft fuckers who advocated for it are first against the wall the moment it turns. AmericanLeft.txt.
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Oct 16, 2016 16:59
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Law should be prescribed to prevent the worst case scenario for a situation, if people saying things you don't agree with fall into that category that your own words aren't counter enough, the moral failing is no longer contained to words.
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Oct 16, 2016 17:00
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Gyges posted:No, all this Trump poo poo is an explicit devolution of the Southern Strategy. An evolution would be to find another whistle for some new and exotic animal that all the racists would hear while the moderates go blissfully about their business of FYGM. Trump not only regressed back to just this side of yelling actual racist epitaphs, but he went and expanded the list of things being whistled about from "The Blacks" to virtually everything not Male, White, and Straight. Funny enough, LGBTQ rights have not played a major role in this campaign like they have in the past two.
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Oct 16, 2016 17:00
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Dead Cosmonaut posted:I think the idealists are right this one time. The realists who are going around saying "well if Trump gets elected all of these checks on power will stop him from doing awful things" or "maybe in hindsight he may not even believe in what he said" are all dead wrong. He who fights authoritarians should take care that he himself does not become an authoritarian. And if you gaze too long into fascism, fascism gazes also into you.
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Oct 16, 2016 17:00
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iospace posted:Ignore Reuters/Ipsos state polls. They're the LAT of state polls. Why? They ask where the person they're polling lives, and once they get enough people to have a No, they have a gigantic national sample which is fine. The issue is that they take that national sample and break it down by state, then just release those as state polls regardless of if there are 500 people polled in that state or 40. Nationally they're way beyond minimum sample size, state to state they tend to be drastically below even the most lose definition of minimum sample size.
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Oct 16, 2016 17:00
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I used to read this thread really diligently. Usually Trumps meltdowns are quite funny and interesting. But nowadays it's just frustrating. There is nothing funny about sexual assault. Nothing! I just want this to be over now.
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Oct 16, 2016 17:01
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Rodenthar Drothman posted:So, they don't actually link emails directly, which pissed me off (a republican friend of mine who will probably vote johnson but is 100% on the "Livia did it" theme of the past 30 years of attacks on Hillary linked it, and he's a good friend so I want to read things and talk to him about things), but here's the pertinent bits of the article: So a full length article pointing out that republicans exist and will always hate the Clintons?
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Oct 16, 2016 17:01
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that all this handwavey bullshit is enough to make good people genuinely hate Clinton.
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Stop everything, guys! Crowder has some hot poo poo going on!! https://twitter.com/scrowder/status/787685328136142848
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Oct 16, 2016 17:04
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speng31b posted:Anyone else surprised by how much media play the "Trump says elections are rigged" is getting? I expected them to maybe latch onto some wikileaks thing, but seems like a really bad idea to giving credibility... From what I've been hearing/reading, the media's general take on Trump's "rigged election" talk has been "this is a crazy conspiracy theory that is potentially dangerous to our democracy".
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Oct 16, 2016 17:07
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DaveWoo posted:From what I've been hearing/reading, the media's general take on Trump's "rigged election" talk has been "this is a crazy conspiracy theory that is potentially dangerous to our democracy". "Also a sign he's a weak, whining pissbaby when he's losing." That's the other prominent take.
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Oct 16, 2016 17:08
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Gyges posted:No, they have a gigantic national sample which is fine. The issue is that they take that national sample and break it down by state, then just release those as state polls regardless of if there are 500 people polled in that state or 40. Nationally they're way beyond minimum sample size, state to state they tend to be drastically below even the most lose definition of minimum sample size. As I said upthread, the national poll is fine. Or every other post really where I talk about that specific poll, saying the national is fine but the states are not. Anyway: https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/663060849662296064
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Oct 16, 2016 17:09
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Rodenthar Drothman posted:I ... don't think so. I mean, they kinda killed most of them for one reason or another. I more meant one not from the Despotic Roman perspective. Still, I've got my British Museum book on Celts.
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Oct 16, 2016 17:09
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Feldegast42 posted:Free speech zones are unconstitutional bullshit trash and the last time they were used widespread was during the Bush administration for suppressing Iraq War protesters. Not exactly a glowing badge of recommendation. Granted, it's a pretty big zone, and it doesn't have that unflattering name, but that's the situation. Feldegast42 posted:There is no way to restrict hate speech without it blowing back in your face. The best way is to stop it is to expose it and then destroy it in the court of public opinion. Of course the media has been poo poo at doing it this cycle but that's their fault and they should know better. I'm not really motivated much to play devil's advocate here. If you actually want to see the case against free speech as made by someone smarter than everyone here, check out the draft I linked to.
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Oct 16, 2016 17:11
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speng31b posted:Anyone else surprised by how much media play the "Trump says elections are rigged" is getting? I expected them to maybe latch onto some wikileaks thing, but seems like a really bad idea to giving credibility... No because it makes him look to the white populace like a straight up wingnut. This isnt any different then any of his other views but views that hit the white populace - assaulting women, that the government is rigged and revolution - are not ok.
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Oct 16, 2016 17:11
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FactsAreUseless posted:If idealism means abandoning the First Amendment because you don't trust Americans to make the right choices but somehow think our system will be able to outright ban all the bad political ideas and only have good ones, then idealism as a concept is dead and sign me up for some realpolitik. The US government, quite frequently, holds interests that are contrary to the consensus of public opinion. It depends on your views on vanguard politics. As for realpolitik, it led Europe into WW1. In their quest to solidify their own power by procuring arms, merely saw war as inevitable. Quorum posted:He who fights authoritarians should take care that he himself does not become an authoritarian. And if you gaze too long into fascism, fascism gazes also into you. Geoff Peterson posted:A nation that requires authoritarian suppression of fascism in order to keep it out of power is a nation that is inevitably going to see that suppression turned towards disadvantaged groups. If that sort of poo poo ever makes it through... well, I won't be around to witness it-but I hope the fauxleft fuckers who advocated for it are first against the wall the moment it turns. These beliefs are barely constituted by the thought that the extreme left and the extreme right, by nature of extremity, have the same tendencies. Only an privileged centrist who made his life out of avoiding getting called out for his beliefs actually believes this. You can have contradictory views that flip both left and right to mislead the public, but they are not realist ones in any sense. You just have an ideology with filter applied to it.
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Oct 16, 2016 17:12
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Kro-Bar posted:Stop everything, guys! Crowder has some hot poo poo going on!! ...am I the only person who hadn't noticed he was wearing a tie until now?
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Oct 16, 2016 17:12
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Anos posted:Proof of everything she has been accused of. Must be a very long and extensive article. quote:2012: Hillary Clinton deliberately orchestrates even MORE murders and treasons this year, most prominently in Benghazi. This is also the year when she pens numerous smoking-gun emails, explaining her deep loathing for the American people, desire to ruin the country, complete incompetence in making deals, deathly illness, inability to get anything done, the fact that everything that has transpired in the United States in her lifetime has been the result of her ingenious and diabolical schemes, and how these statements are not contradictory. Unfortunately, she deletes these VERY carefully.
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Oct 16, 2016 17:14
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AceOfFlames posted:...am I the only person who hadn't noticed he was wearing a tie until now? I'm surprised since one of the big "draws" of Ken Bone was the always touted fact he was wearing a white tie with a white shirt.
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Oct 16, 2016 17:14
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