The Philippines: Forget everything you thought you knew about human rights

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TheDeadlyShoe: Feb 14, 2014

For some reason people are especially bloody-minded when it comes to injuries inflicted by cars, a lot more likely to sympathize/fantasize about such violence and unlikely to give a poo poo about the victims. I've noticed this in several countries. I'm really not sure what to attribute it to.

# ? Oct 19, 2016 17:24

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# ? May 10, 2024 09:55

Wizchine: Sep 17, 2007; Television is the retina
of the mind's eye.

Depending on the context, I think people can look at a car vs mob thing as self-defense, because a big angry mob surrounding your car is a scary thing, and lord knows there's stories out there where people are pulled from their cars and beaten to death if you look.

People celebrating cars running over people are simply assholes though.

# ? Oct 19, 2016 18:02

WeedlordGoku69: Feb 12, 2015; by Cyrano4747

TheDeadlyShoe posted:

For some reason people are especially bloody-minded when it comes to injuries inflicted by cars, a lot more likely to sympathize/fantasize about such violence and unlikely to give a poo poo about the victims. I've noticed this in several countries. I'm really not sure what to attribute it to.

Same reason the DPRK uses anti-aircraft guns to execute people. No kill like overkill.

# ? Oct 19, 2016 18:10

gradenko_2000: Oct 5, 2010; HELL SERPENT; Lipstick Apathy

Wizchine posted:

Depending on the context, I think people can look at a car vs mob thing as self-defense, because a big angry mob surrounding your car is a scary thing, and lord knows there's stories out there where people are pulled from their cars and beaten to death if you look.

That's pretty much exactly the defense that the police are mounting.

quote:

MANILA - The Philippine National Police (PNP) said they did not intend to run over militants rallying in front of the US Embassy, adding that they were merely trying to remove the vehicle from the area.

In an interview with ABS-CBN News, Police Officer 3 Franklin Kho, who was driving the police mobile, said rallyists were trying to seize the vehicle.

"[The protesters were already trying to seize the vehicle, so I was forced to commandeer it, and that's when I accidentally drove it in reverse. That's what happened]," Kho said.

He added that if they allowed the militants to get the vehicle, then it would have been used to run over the policemen in front of the area.

"[It would have been us that they would have run over if they managed to seize the vehicle]," Kho said.

According to Kho, militants were trying to turn the police car over even when he and another policeman were inside.

He also insisted that he had no intention of running over the militants.

"[We did not have any intention of doing that to them]," Kho said.

Police Senior Supt. Marcelino Pedrozo, ground commander of the Manila Police District, also insisted that they exercised maximum tolerance, but the militants did not respect the rights of the policemen.

"[But for them, they did not do what they were supposed to. They did not organize their group. They were not able to control their group. So that's what happened as a result, it become chaotic. Whose fault was that? They themselves were the ones at fault. First off, they weren't acting properly, and they did not have a permit to hold a rally]," he explained.

Pedrozo added that around 30 policemen were injured in the incident, with the numbers expected to increase as they continue with their investigation.

According to Pedrozo, they did not intend to hurt militants.

"That was not done on purpose, they were breaking the windows of our government vehicle. All our policemen wanted to was to get the mobile car out of there. We really did not mean to hurt anyone]," he said.

Activists from Bagong Alyansang Makabayan (Bayan) and various indigenous groups were seen attacking a police mobile at the height of the protest aimed at stopping "US intervention" on Wednesday.

Police retaliated and ran over some protesters. The activists ran for safety but several people were hit by the police vehicle.

# ? Oct 19, 2016 19:01

ocrumsprug: Sep 23, 2010; by LITERALLY AN ADMIN

It is spreading... I have a Canadian acquaintance posting pro Dutertes memes on Facebook.

He is not Filipino, and most certainly would be getting fitted for his cardboard sign if he was there. :negative:

# ? Oct 19, 2016 19:24

toasterwarrior: Nov 11, 2011

They're gonna have their work spinning this cut out for them, because videos of the event aren't leaving a lot to the imagination.

# ? Oct 19, 2016 19:30

gradenko_2000: Oct 5, 2010; HELL SERPENT; Lipstick Apathy

toasterwarrior posted:

They're gonna have their work spinning this cut out for them, because videos of the event aren't leaving a lot to the imagination.

# ? Oct 19, 2016 20:50

Goatse James Bond: Mar 28, 2010; If you see me posting please remind me that I have Charlie Work in the reports forum to do instead

gradenko_2000 posted:

That's pretty much exactly the defense that the police are mounting.

That's not actually an entirely poo poo statement. While it frames the crowd as in the wrong, it also pretty clearly states that squashing people was bad and (allegedly) an unintended side effect. Could be a lot worse. :geno:

# ? Oct 19, 2016 21:11

gradenko_2000: Oct 5, 2010; HELL SERPENT; Lipstick Apathy

�I Am Chinese�: Philippine President Rodrigo Duterte�s Awkward Charm Offensive in China

quote:

Philippine President Rodrigo Duterte doesn�t normally do hats. That said, he has cap firmly in hand during his first official visit to China, where the 71-year-old is engaging in a none-too-subtle attempt to cadge economic concessions from the Asian superpower.

�The only hope of the Philippines economically, I�ll be frank with you, is China,� Duterte told the Chinese state broadcaster CCTV in an interview released Wednesday, while describing his visit as �the defining moment of my presidency� and claiming that �a fourth of our population are Chinese descendants.�

China, by contrast, has expressed support for Duterte�s war on drugs, seeing an opportunity to mend relations with the nation that had, under former President Benigno S. Aquino III, stood up to China�s expansive territorial claims in the South China Sea, where both nations squabble over ownership of rocks and reefs.

Duterte, however, clearly sees economic benefits in softening his nation�s stance on the disputed islets, flying to Beijing with a phalanx of 250 Philippine business figures. Though his erratic behavior has previously caused the Philippine market to slump, the bourse rallied slightly on Wednesday as news of the Beijing charm offense reached investors.

�I would say that China deserves the kind of respect that China now enjoys,� Duterte told Chinese state news wire Xinhua in an earlier interview.

Whether China will be so easily swayed remains to be seen. �He is insightful, down to earth, he could really serve his people,� posted one user of China�s Twitter-like microblog Weibo.

Others weren�t so convinced: �We can�t rely on him, because he will follow anyone who gives him money, he is good at making use of the relationship between China and America, he bargains everywhere.�

Duterte, for his part, is pulling out all the stops, telling CCTV, �Maybe because I�m Chinese, and I believe in sincerity.� (His grandfather reportedly hailed from China.)

He is certainly sincere about wanting Chinese cash, even beseeching Chinese President Xi Jinping � via CCTV � to help build a Philippine railroad, saying: �If you can find it in your heart to give it to us.�

Duterte reveals being denied a US visa in the past

quote:

BEIJING - President Rodrigo Duterte said he was once denied of a United States visa when he planned to visit a girlfriend in college.

Speaking to the Filipino community in China�s capital on Wednesday, Duterte complained why the Americans can enter the Philippines visa-free when Filipinos had a hard time securing a travel document to visit the US.

�America? [Even I can't go there, I wasn't given a visa by those ...]� he said.

He narrated that he was asked what would happen if he decided to marry and stay in the US.

�[I said], �Mr. Consul, even if you offer me free visas for a lifetime and even if you offer me 10,000 dollars, I�d still return to my country and be a Filipino,�� Duterte recalled and the crowd broke into cheers.

�The problem is, you go to America? You�ll not be issued a visa,� he stressed his point.

He shared that a local government official was also denied of a visa although he was invited to an event by the US government itself.

�The poor man had to travel. He was in poor health. [When he got to the US Embassy], he was denied. [But them they can go here anytime]. They enter the Philippines visa-free. Well, there will always be a time for reckoning. [Why don't we get even?]� Duterte said and gave a faint smile.

Duterte says 'goodbye' to US ties in Beijing

quote:

BEIJING, China - President Rodrigo Duterte said it was "time to say goodbye" to the US during a visit to China on Wednesday, as the combative leader reconfigures his country's diplomatic alliances.

Duterte is in China for a four-day trip that is expected to confirm his tilt away from Washington and towards Beijing's sphere of influence.

During a speech addressing the Filipino community in Beijing, the firebrand president said the Philippines had gained little from its long alliance with the US, its former colonial ruler.

"Your stay in my country was for your own benefit. So time to say goodbye, my friend," he said, as if addressing the US.

"I will not go to America anymore. I will just be insulted there," he added, before once again referring to US President Barack Obama as a "son of a whore".

Duterte, who took office in late June, said he was fed up with the Philippines' foreign policy being dictated by a Western agenda.

"What kept us from China was not our own making. I will charter a new course," he said.

Foreign policy under Duterte has dramatically shifted from that pursued under predecessor Benigno Aquino, who took Beijing to an international tribunal over its extensive territorial claims in the South China Sea and won a resounding victory.

The move infuriated Beijing. But Duterte, who took office in June shortly before the tribunal ruling, has made a point of not flaunting the outcome.

He has also suspended joint US-Philippine patrols in the South China Sea, and has threatened an end to joint military exercises.

The South China Sea is of intense interest to Washington and it has repeatedly spoken out on the various territorial disputes between China and its neighbours over the strategically vital waters.

Tensions have risen between the US and China over Washington's so-called "pivot" to the Asia-Pacific, a move that Beijing says is intended to contain it.

Duterte will meet top leaders including President Xi Jinping and Premier Li Keqiang during his stay.

Hours before he spoke, Chinese foreign ministry spokeswoman Hua Chunying told a regular briefing that Beijing was pleased to move towards resolving the territorial dispute "through consultation and dialogue".

"Anyone who truly wishes for peace, stability, development and prosperity in the Asia Pacific" should welcome Duterte's visit, she said.

In an editorial Wednesday, China's nationalist Global Times newspaper said Washington had treated Manila "as a pawn", adding Duterte was now "redesigning Philippine foreign policy based on Philippine interests".

Duterte has said his China trip will focus on promoting economic ties.

The Philippines is hoping, among other things, that Beijing will repeal a ban on imports of its bananas -- an economic sanction intended to punish Manila for its South China Sea stance.

Hua said Wednesday announcements on infrastructure cooperation and economic development projects could be expected during the Philippine leader's visit.

As Duterte has cosied up to Beijing, he has repeatedly denounced the United States for criticizing the deadly war on crime he instigated upon taking office.

Last month Duterte sparked a diplomatic storm with his tirades after being told the US president would raise the rights concerns at an Asia meeting.

Beijing, meanwhile, has enthusiastically endorsed Duterte's war on drugs, which has seen more than 3,700 people killed and led the International Criminal Court to warn that those responsible could face charges.

Hua said Wednesday that the two sides were already in close communication about cooperating on drug control and anti-crime issues.

China has also offered to train some Filipino cadets in "anti-illegal drug and VIP security protection", according to Ramon Purugganan, deputy director of intelligence with the Philippine National Police.

# ? Oct 20, 2016 03:01

The Saddest Rhino: Apr 29, 2009; Put it all together.
Solve the world.
One conversation at a time.

how much in the shitter is Philippines's international trade and economy now

# ? Oct 20, 2016 03:11

CommieGIR: Aug 22, 2006; The blue glow is a feature, not a bug; Pillbug

The Saddest Rhino posted:

how much in the shitter is Philippines's international trade and economy now

Not as much as its going to be.

# ? Oct 20, 2016 03:15

chird: Sep 26, 2004

I'm confused why pinoys aren't out on the streets baying for his blood. He even secretly took Bongbong and Imes Marcos with him to China and said in a speech he hoped/expected Marcos to become his vice president.

# ? Oct 20, 2016 04:47

The Saddest Rhino: Apr 29, 2009; Put it all together.
Solve the world.
One conversation at a time.

chird posted:

I'm confused why pinoys aren't out on the streets baying for his blood. He even secretly took Bongbong and Imes Marcos with him to China and said in a speech he hoped/expected Marcos to become his vice president.

all the drug users are dead so it's okay, the end justifies the means! - Pinoy comment written on any news about Duterte

# ? Oct 20, 2016 05:27

Argue: Sep 29, 2005; I represent the Philippines

We have never been at war with Eastasia

quote:

BEIJING�Visiting Philippine President Rodrigo Duterte had praise for China on Wednesday, setting aside a maritime dispute as the combative leader reconfigures his country's diplomatic alliances.

The Asian giant was "good", he said.

"It has never invaded a piece of my country all these generations," Duterte added in an apparent comparison to the Philippines' former colonial ruler the United States.

"During the Cold War, China was portrayed as the bad guy," he added. "And all of these years, what we have read in our books in school were all propaganda produced by the West."

Duterte is in China for a four-day trip that is expected to confirm his tilt away from Washington and towards Beijing's sphere of influence.

Foreign policy under Duterte has dramatically shifted from that pursued under predecessor Benigno Aquino, who took Beijing to an international tribunal over its extensive territorial claims in the South China Sea and won a resounding victory.

The move infuriated Beijing.

But Duterte, who took office in June shortly before the tribunal ruling, has made a point of not flaunting the outcome, even though China seized Scarborough Shoal�a fishing ground within the Philippines' exclusive economic zone�in 2012.

The judgment, Duterte said, was "a piece of paper with four corners".

"The arbitral award gives us the right. China has the historical right. And they're insisting. In this situation, do we argue, or do we just talk? I would say, let us put it (off) to some other day," Duterte said.

As Duterte has cozied up to Beijing, he has repeatedly denounced the United States and President Barack Obama for criticizing his deadly war on crime.

He has also suspended joint US-Philippine patrols in the South China Sea, and has threatened an end to joint military exercises.

The South China Sea is of intense interest to Washington and it has repeatedly spoken out on the various territorial disputes between China and its neighbours over the strategically vital waters.

Tensions have risen between the US and China over Washington's so-called "pivot" to the Asia-Pacific, a move that Beijing says is intended to contain it.

Duterte will meet top leaders including President Xi Jinping and Premier Li Keqiang during his stay.

Hours before he spoke, Chinese foreign ministry spokeswoman Hua Chunying told a regular briefing that Beijing was pleased to move towards resolving the territorial dispute "through consultation and dialogue".

"This is how two friendly neighbours should treat each other," she added.

"Anyone who truly wishes for peace, stability, development and prosperity in the Asia Pacific" should welcome Duterte's visit.

In an editorial Wednesday, China's nationalist Global Times newspaper said Washington had treated Manila "as a pawn", adding Duterte was now "redesigning Philippine foreign policy based on Philippine interests".

Duterte has said his China trip will focus on promoting economic ties.

The Philippines is hoping, among other things, that Beijing will repeal a ban on imports of its bananas -- an economic sanction intended to punish Manila for its South China Sea stance.

Hua said Wednesday announcements on infrastructure cooperation and economic development projects could be expected during the Philippine leader's visit.

Beijing has also enthusiastically endorsed Duterte's war on drugs, which has seen more than 3,700 people killed and led the International Criminal Court to warn that those responsible could face charges.

Hua praised Duterte Wednesday for "rolling out policies to ensure social order and public security", adding that the two sides were already in close communication about cooperating on drug control and anti-crime issues.

# ? Oct 20, 2016 08:16

Lily Catts: Oct 17, 2012; Show me the way to you
(Heavy Metal)

Hey, I've been denied a US Visa twice, it sucks.

# ? Oct 20, 2016 08:36

gradenko_2000: Oct 5, 2010; HELL SERPENT; Lipstick Apathy

PH agrees to bilateral talks on maritime row, gets $9B in credit

quote:

BEIJING�Beijing scored a major diplomatic coup on Wednesday after Chinese President Xi Jinping and President Rodrigo Duterte agreed to enter into bilateral negotiations to resolve its maritime dispute�a 180-degree turn from the Philippines� stance of engaging only in multilateral talks over overlapping territorial claims in the West Philippine Sea.

As part of the deal, officials of both nations signed 13 agreements and memoranda of understanding (MOU) that included a key deal to establish a �Joint Coastal Guard Committee on Maritime Cooperation� as a prelude to greater cooperation in the disputed waters.

�In this visit, bilateral relations have fully recovered and two countries will return to track of dialogue and consultation to address maritime issues,� China�s vice minister for foreign affairs Liu Zhenmin told the press after the signing ceremonies witnessed by Messrs. Xi and Duterte.

The Inquirer learned that, during their bilateral talks, Mr. Xi commuted $6 billion worth of soft loans from the Chinese government to the Philippines, while another $3 billion in credit facilities would be made available by private Chinese banks. Another 100 million yuan or about $15 million was committed to aid Mr. Duterte�s war on drugs through the establishment of rehabilitation facilities�details confirmed by both Finance Secretary Carlos Dominguez and Presidential Communications Secretary Martin Andanar.

Other deals signed on Thursday in the Great Hall of the People included the Agricultural Cooperation Action Plan 2017-2019; an MOU on cooperation on animal and plant inspection and quarantine; an MOU on supporting the conduct of feasibility studies for major projects; and an MOU on production capacity and investment cooperation.

Also signed was an agreement on economic and technological cooperation between the government of China and the Philippines; an MOU on strengthening trade, investment and economic cooperation; the MOU on drafting China-Philippines economic cooperation development plans; and the tourism MOU implementation plan of 2017-2022.

Finally, Messrs. Duterte and Xi also witnessed the signing by their Cabinet officials of the MOU on the lists of transportation and infrastructure cooperation projects; and the MOU on financing cooperation between the Export-Import Bank of China and the Philippines� Department of Finance.

Also agreed upon was an MOU on news information exchange training.

Addressing Mr. Duterte�s concerns over the local drug menace, both nations also signed a protocol on cooperation between the Philippine Drug Enforcement Agency and the Narcotics Control Bureau of the Ministry of Public Security of China.

Speaking to reporters on the sidelines of the signing ceremonies, Rep. Arthur Yap described the bilateral meeting between Messrs. Xi and Duterte as �unprecedented,� saying both leaders spent more time speaking to each other exclusively than originally planned.

�It was just the two of them and their interpreters. No other officials present,� he said, describing the intimate t�te-�-t�te ahead of the expanded bilateral talks. �That�s really unprecedented. They were supposed to speak for only 15 minutes, but I think it extended to 30 minutes.�

The meetings followed an elaborate welcoming ceremony thrown for Mr. Duterte at the plaza of the Great Hall of the People fronting Tiananmen Square. The national anthems of both nations were played while a battery of howitzers fired a cannonade in Tiananmen Square. After reviewing the honor guard composed of soldiers of the People�s Liberation Army, both leaders were greeted by cheering schoolchildren waving flowers and flags of China and the Philippines.

As both men returned to the dais, the PLA honor guard passed in review to a crisp goose step march while the military band played martial music.

Duterte announces military, economic split from U.S.

quote:

BEIJING, China � In front of Chinese businessmen and government officials, President Rodrigo Duterte announced his �separation� from the United States both in military and economic aspects.

�I announce my separation from the United States, both in military but economics also,� said Duterte on Thursday, October 20, during the Philippines-China Trade and Investment Forum.

�So please you have another problem of economics in my country. I am separated from them so I will be dependent on you for a long time,� Duterte said, before chuckling.

The rest of his speech was heavily anti-American, to the amusement of his Chinese and Filipino audience.

He began his speech by saying that Americans are a �discourteous people� who are too loud for Asian sensibilities.

�Americans are loud, sometimes rowdy. Their larynx is not adjusted to civility,� he said.

He then said he prefers the Chinese way.

�Duterte of the Philippines is veering towards China because China has the character of an Oriental. It does not go around insulting people,� he said to loud applause.

Later on in the speech, he said it�s the �Philippines, China, and Russia� against the world.

gradenko_2000 fucked around with this message at 12:17 on Oct 20, 2016

# ? Oct 20, 2016 12:14

TheDeadlyShoe: Feb 14, 2014

*scratch head* this'alls happened very fast.

'Their larynx is not adjusted to civility' is innovative, i'll give him that.

I wonder if all the (previous) continuous insults directed at US politicians were to try and get some return shittalking, helping justify the turn to China.

# ? Oct 20, 2016 13:12

MrNemo: Aug 26, 2010; "I just love beeting off"

Congratulations Philippines, I'm sure they'll be happy what with the fantastic reputation Chinese tourists have for being quiet and respectful. Also China, historically focused on mutual success and strongly opposed to making moves that benefit their global position at the cost of other nations territorial or political interests.

I guess in 5 years when Filipinos have the option to visit China or Russia for holidays and are finding it difficult to work with European or American companies people will question whether Duterte made a good move but I doubt anyone who supports him currently really cares. Looks like the Philippines got their own brexit without even the benefit of knowing they were explicitly voting to gently caress themselves. Maybe the UK and Philippines can be bros dreaming of how good they had it and blaming the allies they rejected.

# ? Oct 20, 2016 13:18

GEORGE W BUSHI: Jul 1, 2012

quote:

He began his speech by saying that Americans are a �discourteous people� who are too loud for Asian sensibilities.

Does the Philippines never get Chinese tourists or...?

# ? Oct 20, 2016 13:22

halokiller: Dec 28, 2008; Sisters Are Doin' It For Themselves

This *totally* won't backfire and China and the Philippines will have a healthy, mutual relationship just like China does with the various developing countries in Africa and Latin America. :smithicide:

# ? Oct 20, 2016 13:57

Crowsbeak: Oct 9, 2012; by Azathoth; Lipstick Apathy

Considering China's own economic problems, how hosed is the Phillipines?

# ? Oct 20, 2016 14:00

Darkman Fanpage: Jul 4, 2012

Crowsbeak posted:

Considering China's own economic problems, how hosed is the Phillipines?

Very. Also they can say goodbye to their territorial waters as the Chinese fishing fleet piles in under PLAN protection.

# ? Oct 20, 2016 14:14

The Saddest Rhino: Apr 29, 2009; Put it all together.
Solve the world.
One conversation at a time.

Baron Corbyn posted:

Does the Philippines never get Chinese tourists or...?

i seem to recall chinese/hk tourists having reduced after that disastrous casino tourist bus incident ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manila_hostage_crisis )

# ? Oct 20, 2016 14:22

NewMars: Mar 10, 2013

So uh, I'm guessing this is marginally painful for the US and in the near-future extremely, incredibly painful for the Philippines?

# ? Oct 20, 2016 14:23

gradenko_2000: Oct 5, 2010; HELL SERPENT; Lipstick Apathy

Anyone up for hiring a ComSci graduate with 9 years experience in the IT industry?

Please?

# ? Oct 20, 2016 14:27

Crowsbeak: Oct 9, 2012; by Azathoth; Lipstick Apathy

Darkman Fanpage posted:

Very. Also they can say goodbye to their territorial waters as the Chinese fishing fleet piles in under PLAN protection.

So how likely is it that Duterte is just a mad dog, or that he is bought?

# ? Oct 20, 2016 14:32

NewMars: Mar 10, 2013

Crowsbeak posted:

So how likely is it that Duterte is just a mad dog, or that he is bought?

It's a combination of being both easily flattered and wanting to make big, dynamic changes. both caused by a large and fragile ego. He's trump, 100% all the way. This is what Trump would do if he won the election.

# ? Oct 20, 2016 14:38

Mulva: Sep 13, 2011; It's about time for my once per decade ban for being a consistently terrible poster.

NewMars posted:

So uh, I'm guessing this is marginally painful for the US and in the near-future extremely, incredibly painful for the Philippines?

It's not really at all painful for the US except in theoretical terms. It is bad for the Philippines in very, very concrete terms. Like technically it's not great for the US to have an ally side with China in a region where we are trying to curtail Chinese imperialism, but pretty much everyone else is on board with us to oppose that soooooo.......in practical terms only the Philippines gets hurt by selling out to China.

# ? Oct 20, 2016 14:40

webmeister: Jan 31, 2007; The answer is, mate, because I want to do you slowly. There has to be a bit of sport in this for all of us. In the psychological battle stakes, we are stripped down and ready to go. I want to see those ashen-faced performances; I want more of them. I want to be encouraged. I want to see you squirm.

The Saddest Rhino posted:

i seem to recall chinese/hk tourists having reduced after that disastrous casino tourist bus incident ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manila_hostage_crisis )

Funnily enough, I spent the entirety of China's National Week holiday in Boracay surrounded by mainlanders, and here again in Bohol there's heaps of them around. But they're actually waaay better behaved here than the bus hordes you get in Thailand and other parts of SEA.

It seems like the large bus package tours don't come here, only the wealthier people who have some form of manners. No yelling, no spitting, no kids making GBS threads in the street and so on.

I've honestly been really surprised, because after 6 months of travelling through SEA, large Chinese bus groups are the bane of my existence.

# ? Oct 20, 2016 14:54

Darkman Fanpage: Jul 4, 2012

My thoughts regarding the current Philippines situation: http://youtu.be/gO_KxGlY62g

# ? Oct 20, 2016 15:17

CommieGIR: Aug 22, 2006; The blue glow is a feature, not a bug; Pillbug

Mulva posted:

It's not really at all painful for the US except in theoretical terms. It is bad for the Philippines in very, very concrete terms. Like technically it's not great for the US to have an ally side with China in a region where we are trying to curtail Chinese imperialism, but pretty much everyone else is on board with us to oppose that soooooo.......in practical terms only the Philippines gets hurt by selling out to China.

Chances are, between New Zealand and Australia, this is going to just result in a defacto embargo for the Philippines.

# ? Oct 20, 2016 15:42

Deceitful Penguin: Feb 16, 2011

Most of the countries actually benefitting from Chinese money are far enough away and already hosed over on deals over their resources that the Chinese are often an 'upgrade' (Though far from flawless). You got some decent metals, but I'm guessing you were already trading that to them anyway.

On the other hand, the one thing that almost inevitably happens when China gets involved is corruption skyrocketing, so here's to hoping some goons got family in the right places I guess.

# ? Oct 20, 2016 17:45

NewMars: Mar 10, 2013

Deceitful Penguin posted:

Most of the countries actually benefitting from Chinese money are far enough away and already hosed over on deals over their resources that the Chinese are often an 'upgrade' (Though far from flawless). You got some decent metals, but I'm guessing you were already trading that to them anyway.

On the other hand, the one thing that almost inevitably happens when China gets involved is corruption skyrocketing, so here's to hoping some goons got family in the right places I guess.

Well, president man there has basically signed over all the resources of the West Philippine Sea to china in exchange for ruinously large loans and vague promises. I don't know what the US's economic relation with the country was, but I'm guessing it was better than that.

So the Philippines gets hit with the double whammy: all it's wealth belongs to another country and it's hideously corrupt on the homefront! Truly, now is the dawning of their golden age.

# ? Oct 20, 2016 17:49

Deceitful Penguin: Feb 16, 2011

The situation I studied was the African one, where most of the problems with the post-colonial governments was a huge lack of capital and infrastructure to actually utilize natural resources and manpower and they were intentionally kept starved of both by the west. Any aid came with huge conditions, some good but mostly just poo poo gutting domestic markets and production in favour of importing from them.

China would then step in, offer to give you the loan without any strings and often in the form of infrastructure, which they often couldn't build on the same scale themselves. How this ended up working depended very strongly on how well the government managed their deals with China, with some such as Angola and Nigeria managing to profit pretty well (before the shale-oil boom at least) while others, well. They got those roads I suppose, while those in charge got a few more gold plated toilets.

I haven't the foggiest how things will develop in this situation, as they're both way closer and have a lot more negative history but uhhh, "great" is not very likely.

# ? Oct 20, 2016 17:54

chami: Mar 28, 2011; Keep it classy, boys~; Fun Shoe

Welp, I-130 time. drat applications are so expensive.

# ? Oct 20, 2016 18:01

NewMars: Mar 10, 2013

Deceitful Penguin posted:

The situation I studied was the African one, where most of the problems with the post-colonial governments was a huge lack of capital and infrastructure to actually utilize natural resources and manpower and they were intentionally kept starved of both by the west. Any aid came with huge conditions, some good but mostly just poo poo gutting domestic markets and production in favour of importing from them.

China would then step in, offer to give you the loan without any strings and often in the form of infrastructure, which they often couldn't build on the same scale themselves. How this ended up working depended very strongly on how well the government managed their deals with China, with some such as Angola and Nigeria managing to profit pretty well (before the shale-oil boom at least) while others, well. They got those roads I suppose, while those in charge got a few more gold plated toilets.

I haven't the foggiest how things will develop in this situation, as they're both way closer and have a lot more negative history but uhhh, "great" is not very likely.

Well, from the looks of this:

quote:

Other deals signed on Thursday in the Great Hall of the People included the Agricultural Cooperation Action Plan 2017-2019; an MOU on cooperation on animal and plant inspection and quarantine; an MOU on supporting the conduct of feasibility studies for major projects; and an MOU on production capacity and investment cooperation.

Also signed was an agreement on economic and technological cooperation between the government of China and the Philippines; an MOU on strengthening trade, investment and economic cooperation; the MOU on drafting China-Philippines economic cooperation development plans; and the tourism MOU implementation plan of 2017-2022.

Finally, Messrs. Duterte and Xi also witnessed the signing by their Cabinet officials of the MOU on the lists of transportation and infrastructure cooperation projects; and the MOU on financing cooperation between the Export-Import Bank of China and the Philippines� Department of Finance.

Also agreed upon was an MOU on news information exchange training.

Addressing Mr. Duterte�s concerns over the local drug menace, both nations also signed a protocol on cooperation between the Philippine Drug Enforcement Agency and the Narcotics Control Bureau of the Ministry of Public Security of China.

And taking into account their history of performing similar operations, It seems like the Chinese are going to do some token investment in infrastructure while having massive investment into getting every piece of valuable land or ocean in the hands of corporations funneling profits back to the motherland. Also probably letting Deuterte go nuts in taking on larger and larger loans paying for his war on drugs.

# ? Oct 20, 2016 18:01

ihatepants: Nov 5, 2011; Let the burning of pants commence. These things drive me nuts.

Baron Corbyn posted:

Does the Philippines never get Chinese tourists or...?

There are still a ton of Chinese tourists and they are still really bad and kind of disgusting, to be honest. My wife used to work in Makati Med, which is one of the best hospitals in the country and there were multiple times when I would come and pick her up and witness Chinese nationals doing gross poo poo. Spitting on the floors, blowing their snot onto the floor, one time even holding up their infant to pee into one of the potted plants. Awful stuff to do, especially in a hospital.

VVVV: forgot to mention this as well. None of this makes sense!

ihatepants fucked around with this message at 18:15 on Oct 20, 2016

# ? Oct 20, 2016 18:07

NewMars: Mar 10, 2013

Also the war on drugs will get so much worse as economic ties to china increase, because guess what the biggest source of them in the region is!

# ? Oct 20, 2016 18:10

Mulva: Sep 13, 2011; It's about time for my once per decade ban for being a consistently terrible poster.

How is everyone in the Philippines reacting to the fact Glorious Leader just sold out the country for nothing?

# ? Oct 20, 2016 18:12

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# ? May 10, 2024 09:55

Deceitful Penguin: Feb 16, 2011

The agricultural poo poo is very normal; China, just like a lot of nations isn't self-sufficient when it comes to food so it's always near the top of the list when it comes to starting these deals.

Huh. The loans aren't resource backed right? The poor assholes that didn't do that ended up getting seriously hosed in the financial crisis when a lot of the South and West African nations suddenly saw their currencies tumble while the Yuan stayed steady.

They look like they're going the whole hog, which means that well, I wouldn't want to be a miner right now over there. And uhhh "news information exchange training" sounds like they might be importing the same systems and training that China uses to curtail civil liberties and control discourse there.

Bad stuff.

NewMars posted:

Also the war on drugs will get so much worse as economic ties to china increase, because guess what the biggest source of them in the region is!

The Golden Triangle?

Well, I mean I guess they're big on the poo poo ya can make in a factory? Ice and uhhh, special K?

# ? Oct 20, 2016 18:13

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > The Philippines: Forget everything you thought you knew about human rights

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