|
Bicyclops posted:I think there's a middle ground, though. A lot of the story in Chrono Trigger is hidden behind obfuscation (or, unfortunately, bad translation), but something like To the Moon (while still worthwhile, I think), is too much like a guy who obviously wanted to make a movie not having the resources and just writing the dialogue into RPGMaker. There's something to having an individual user "discover" the story through the more gamey aspects. Absolutely. There's also something to be said for the stories players create themselves. When I play Invisible Inc I get super attached to my agents as they escape the most harrowing situations (or don't) and it's completely separate from the game's story. Or, say, the longer form campaign in Disgaea - you get attached to your little dudes even if they never talk.
|
#
?
Oct 19, 2016 21:48
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 29, 2024 10:01 |
|
|
That man wants to gently caress that dinosaur. Stop posting that.
|
|
#
?
Oct 19, 2016 21:51
|
|
|
Bicyclops posted:lmao if you didn't want kefka to win at least a little bit in FF6 though After he hurled those espers into the trash compactor in the WoB, I was pretty not onboard any of his terrible plans.
|
|
#
?
Oct 19, 2016 21:51
|
|
|
I'm pretty sure nobody turned around on Split/Second. It's still just a really cool game.
|
|
#
?
Oct 19, 2016 22:15
|
|
|
Mordja posted:That man wants to gently caress that dinosaur. To be fair, we've known this about Mario for a while.
|
|
#
?
Oct 19, 2016 22:18
|
|
|
StrixNebulosa posted:Absolutely. In my opinion the most important thing in making a game with a narrative is lining up what the story wants the characters to do and what the gameplay wants you, the person controlling the character(s), to do. Even in a game with a very sparse narrative framework like X-Com or Civ, what story you are given lines up nicely with what the game is driving you to want as a player. The aliens are invading, and this will be a difficult fight for survival. I want to beat the aliens, and it's difficult because my soldiers keep on dying! The tone of the gameplay matches the tone of the story, the goals are the same, it works really well! Build a Civilization That Will Stand the Test of Time, the Civ narrator tells you, and the gameplay drives you toward literally doing this and you get a kick out of all the historical narratives that it generates along the way, when you recapture a city you settled or spread your religion or whatever. Contrast this with, say, Bioshock: Infinite. What does the game's narrative ask you to do? Rescue Elizabeth and take her away from the floating city. What does the gameplay tell you to do? Shoot all the people. I can't remember if you can even run through a combat arena in Infinite without killing all the people within it first.
|
|
#
?
Oct 19, 2016 22:23
|
|
|
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J3uR2qFlP04
|
|
#
?
Oct 19, 2016 22:24
|
|
|
I loved that game, it was so goofy. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CXvNj8--u44
|
|
#
?
Oct 19, 2016 22:32
|
|
|
Red Bones posted:In my opinion the most important thing in making a game with a narrative is lining up what the story wants the characters to do and what the gameplay wants you, the person controlling the character(s), to do. Even in a game with a very sparse narrative framework like X-Com or Civ, what story you are given lines up nicely with what the game is driving you to want as a player. The aliens are invading, and this will be a difficult fight for survival. I want to beat the aliens, and it's difficult because my soldiers keep on dying! The tone of the gameplay matches the tone of the story, the goals are the same, it works really well! Build a Civilization That Will Stand the Test of Time, the Civ narrator tells you, and the gameplay drives you toward literally doing this and you get a kick out of all the historical narratives that it generates along the way, when you recapture a city you settled or spread your religion or whatever. Then there's the interesting contrast between what the character wants to do and what you want to do - Shadow of the Colossus is the best example here. The protag wants to kill the Colossi to revive his friend. You want to kill them because there's literally nothing else to do in the game. I mean, there's sight-seeing the vast empty land and hunting lizards, but if you want the selling point of the game, you gotta go kill things. Then you slowly realize that these things....probably deserve to live, and it's a bad idea to kill them. But there's still nothing else to do - no minigames or sidequests - and the protag wants to go on. So you go on. And the ending hits like a train. Mind you this isn't always the best narrative path because it can lead to games where you just don't play - or get angry at. (Spec Ops the Line) But that's something you just can't do with other mediums, I don't think. It's cool.
|
|
#
?
Oct 19, 2016 22:37
|
|
|
Red Bones posted:In my opinion the most important thing in making a game with a narrative is lining up what the story wants the characters to do and what the gameplay wants you, the person controlling the character(s), to do. Even in a game with a very sparse narrative framework like X-Com or Civ, what story you are given lines up nicely with what the game is driving you to want as a player. The aliens are invading, and this will be a difficult fight for survival. I want to beat the aliens, and it's difficult because my soldiers keep on dying! The tone of the gameplay matches the tone of the story, the goals are the same, it works really well! Build a Civilization That Will Stand the Test of Time, the Civ narrator tells you, and the gameplay drives you toward literally doing this and you get a kick out of all the historical narratives that it generates along the way, when you recapture a city you settled or spread your religion or whatever. Ludonarrative dissonance! But yeah it was an issue with B:I because it did require to shoot all the mans most of the time even though there were plenty of times where it should have been possible to get around the bad guys. Sometimes in shootmans, you have to shoot the bad guys because they're trying to stop you from doing your thing; that's just part of video games in general. All those poor monsters I've destroyed in JRPGs... But in a narrative-driven game where you are supposed to be vaguely heroic, bad guy slaughter should probably be optional most of the time like in many other modern shooters. Unless they're nazis.
|
|
#
?
Oct 19, 2016 22:43
|
|
|
I look forward to the day when I can finally get a video of my bird trying to wrest the wiimote control stick away from me while yelling "Yoshiiiiii!!" so I can display my true gamer pet.
|
|
#
?
Oct 19, 2016 22:43
|
|
|
Wamdoodle posted:I loved that game, it was so goofy. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KGwo7SSqU3w
|
|
#
?
Oct 19, 2016 22:51
|
|
|
I remember playing a dumb flash game that was called "You're trapped in an art game" or something like that and it was just the main character waking up and being confused about why he was being forced to only move to the right until he moves up the stairs of his building and off the roof to his death because it was an art game. It got a chuckle out of me.
|
|
#
?
Oct 19, 2016 22:51
|
|
|
I played NFS The Run for the dumbest possible reason (surprising a friend for an LP) and the only time I really felt like I was having fun was in the avalanche blasting level where it's just you going down a hill while avalanches keep going down on you. The game was begging for more dumb movie stunts like that but instead 99% of it is just you driving on bland roads either gaining places or doing badly tested time trials. It also thinks way too much of its two main characters, a man who kicks dogs and a woman who goes "this one's dangerous" and "get your head in the game" every other mission.
|
|
#
?
Oct 19, 2016 22:57
|
|
|
Writing is also a problem in open world games because the main storyline is usually based around important and urgent objectives that don't make sense for the character to ignore when the player wants to do side missions. RPGs do it too, I suppose.
|
|
#
?
Oct 19, 2016 23:13
|
|
|
Help Im Alive posted:Is there a list of games that the internet hasn't decided is bad after 3 months Umm, Zelda games?
|
|
#
?
Oct 19, 2016 23:16
|
|
|
Mordja posted:That man wants to gently caress that dinosaur. Lizard Wizard wants to gently caress a dinosaur?
|
|
#
?
Oct 19, 2016 23:19
|
|
|
Great Joe posted:I played NFS The Run for the dumbest possible reason (surprising a friend for an LP) and the only time I really felt like I was having fun was in the avalanche blasting level where it's just you going down a hill while avalanches keep going down on you. The game was begging for more dumb movie stunts like that but instead 99% of it is just you driving on bland roads either gaining places or doing badly tested time trials. It also thinks way too much of its two main characters, a man who kicks dogs and a woman who goes "this one's dangerous" and "get your head in the game" every other mission. And they're not even ever dangerous, loving lying-rear end mad men lady
|
|
#
?
Oct 19, 2016 23:20
|
|
|
Lobok posted:Writing is also a problem in open world games because the main storyline is usually based around important and urgent objectives that don't make sense for the character to ignore when the player wants to do side missions. RPGs do it too, I suppose. RPGs definitely do it. SMTIV:A. "Oh no there's a time limit we have to find this sword before these other demons do" no sorry I am gonna beat up demons over here so I can find some LEDs and turn them in for a reward.
|
|
#
?
Oct 19, 2016 23:24
|
|
|
Lobok posted:Writing is also a problem in open world games because the main storyline is usually based around important and urgent objectives that don't make sense for the character to ignore when the player wants to do side missions. RPGs do it too, I suppose. Fallout 4 was real bad about this. "Hmmm well I have a missing son, who is the only family I have remaining, but gently caress em! I'm gonna help this town get its water supply running first." Red Bones posted:Contrast this with, say, Bioshock: Infinite. What does the game's narrative ask you to do? Rescue Elizabeth and take her away from the floating city. What does the gameplay tell you to do? Shoot all the people. I can't remember if you can even run through a combat arena in Infinite without killing all the people within it first. To be fair, a lot of action movies the plot is basically "Save so-and-so" and you still end up blasting your way through. And there are times in bioshock infinite where you can skip past people and not kill everybody. And when you first show up you're peaceful and the people are too, and then they turn on you and you have to defend yourself. I mean its not perfect obviously, but there's way worse contradictions in other games. Way worse. One of my pet peeves is when your character does super badass stuff in a cutscene that the game can't remotely approach letting you do. Its like they're advertising a better game that you're not playing.
|
|
#
?
Oct 19, 2016 23:24
|
|
|
While we're talking about impactful gameplay elements conveying the story - that thing at the ending of Brothers: A Tale of Two Sons was just brilliant.
|
|
#
?
Oct 19, 2016 23:35
|
|
|
Black Lodge Palpek posted:While we're talking about impactful gameplay elements conveying the story - that thing at the ending of Brothers: A Tale of Two Sons was just brilliant. I remember this. It was so powerful that I felt a feel.
|
|
#
?
Oct 19, 2016 23:37
|
|
|
That game's control scheme hurt my brain. And it took me a while to figure out the ultimate, thematically-climactic puzzle because I'm a dummy. Zero out of four stars
|
|
#
?
Oct 19, 2016 23:38
|
|
|
corn in the bible posted:Lizard Wizard wants to gently caress a dinosaur? Nonsense. That's highly unrealistic.
|
|
#
?
Oct 19, 2016 23:39
|
|
|
Morrowind kinda got over some of the problems with open-world narratives by having one of the early quest givers say outright, "Go gently caress around for a while, join random guilds, then come back and we'll continue this main quest thing you're on"
|
|
#
?
Oct 19, 2016 23:40
|
|
|
Jay Rust posted:Morrowind kinda got over some of the problems with open-world narratives by having one of the early quest givers say outright, "Go gently caress around for a while, join random guilds, then come back and we'll continue this main quest thing you're on" Yeah Morrowind handled it very well, in a way more games with ample side content should. They don't present the threat as so imminent like it always is in Bioware games or even later Elder Scrolls titles. The Blight isn't rampaging over the countryside with an unstoppable army. There aren't gates to Oblivion opening up everywhere and spewing an unending tide of Daedra. A rogue agent isn't trying to summon up a army of unstoppable kill bots that will wipe the galaxy of sentient life. It's just "Daggoth Ur has got some plans and will do something someday". It's not an immediate crisis. The Ghostgate is just the way it's been for a long time. Civilization is not facing imminent peril. The enemies plans are not clear or even known to be fully in motion. It's ok to take some time. Same reason why it felt comfortable to explore in Fallout 3 and New Vegas.
|
|
#
?
Oct 19, 2016 23:54
|
|
|
I never saw the problem in Bioshock's Infinite combat since the game repeats over and over how the main character is an inherently violent person even if they wish they weren't. It's hinted multiple times by the plot, repeated multiple times by characters and even part of the game's half-assed core themes. It's not even subtle yet people insist that the combat was out of place.
|
|
#
?
Oct 19, 2016 23:59
|
|
|
NFS The Run has 6 tiers of cars, bigger number is more fast. You start the cannonball run in a tier 4 car.
|
|
#
?
Oct 20, 2016 00:03
|
|
|
Black Lodge Palpek posted:While we're talking about impactful gameplay elements conveying the story - that thing at the ending of Brothers: A Tale of Two Sons was just brilliant. That's a good feels game
|
|
#
?
Oct 20, 2016 00:08
|
|
|
corn in the bible posted:Lizard Wizard wants to gently caress a dinosaur? The plot thickens...
|
|
#
?
Oct 20, 2016 00:10
|
|
|
Important: has a video game ever made you cry
|
|
#
?
Oct 20, 2016 00:13
|
|
|
Help Im Alive posted:Important: has a video game ever made you cry The MGS3 salute made me tear up, as did the MGS4 final boss.
|
|
#
?
Oct 20, 2016 00:17
|
|
|
The Walking Dead season one finale 
|
|
#
?
Oct 20, 2016 00:18
|
|
|
Jay Rust posted:Morrowind kinda got over some of the problems with open-world narratives by having one of the early quest givers say outright, "Go gently caress around for a while, join random guilds, then come back and we'll continue this main quest thing you're on" I'm finishing up Arkham Knight and every now and then the main storyline objective waits for you in a sense by having Batman rely on other characters working on something and having Batman meet up with them soon-ish with the latest developments. But the Catwoman/Riddler side missions are never not funny because she's got a bomb locked around her neck and all she can do is chill and wait for Batman to come back and help her get it off. I think Saint's Row 2 is still my gold standard for writing in an open world and lack of ludonarrative dissonance. The main character is an immature, gleeful psycho who wants to build up a gang - everything you do or would want to in the game fits with that!
|
|
#
?
Oct 20, 2016 00:19
|
|
|
Lizard Wizard posted:Nonsense. That's highly unrealistic. You could say it's almost unreal. Edit: I don't even think Yoshi is in that video. Wait no there he is at 2:18. Now that was a Yoshi built to last. Viewtiful Jew fucked around with this message at 01:01 on Oct 20, 2016 |
|
#
?
Oct 20, 2016 00:57
|
|
|
Lobok posted:Writing is also a problem in open world games because the main storyline is usually based around important and urgent objectives that don't make sense for the character to ignore when the player wants to do side missions. RPGs do it too, I suppose. "This meteor is about to hit the planet!! Anyway, who wants to go chocobo racing for a month?"
|
|
#
?
Oct 20, 2016 01:28
|
|
|
Help Im Alive posted:Important: has a video game ever made you cry  Um! No!?I cry easily. I even cried during an unexpected moment in Mass Effect 3 of all things. When the Illusive Man is paragonned into realizing the error of all his ways. He just wanted to help!!! I guess him sincerely realizing he was a monster far too late really hit me outta nowhere. The end tune of Transistor made me cry, too. Bastion's "good end" made me cry a lot, especially when they give up on attacking The Kid.
|
|
#
?
Oct 20, 2016 01:30
|
|
|
https://twitter.com/YourFriendMario/status/788863875039039488 Okay this is closer to being good
|
|
#
?
Oct 20, 2016 01:34
|
|
|
Looks like my thread title came... eerily true!!! https://twitter.com/NintendoAmerica/status/788900063833493504
|
|
#
?
Oct 20, 2016 01:35
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 29, 2024 10:01 |
|
|
No it's really not.
|
|
#
?
Oct 20, 2016 01:36
|
|
