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Lurdiak posted:I've got a theory, it involves not derailing good ongoings with events so that the cool hero can organically grow and develop a loyal fanbase. That's crazy. You're crazy. Stop being so crazy!
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Oct 20, 2016 07:29
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Onmi posted:That's crazy. You're crazy. Stop being so crazy! I can't, because I'm being taken over by.... THE CRAZENING! CONTINUED IN ISSUE ONE OF "HEROES CRAZENED", IN STORES NEXT WEEK.
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Oct 20, 2016 07:38
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Lurdiak posted:I can't, because I'm being taken over by.... THE CRAZENING! CONTINUED IN ISSUE ONE OF "HEROES CRAZENED", IN STORES NEXT WEEK. Note: The actual Crazening will feature very little of Luridak.
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Oct 20, 2016 07:43
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Have these been announced as ongoing or just the event books?
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Oct 20, 2016 08:41
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Civil War 2 is such crap Why is Civil War 2 such crap I think I picked a lovely time to try following comics more seriously. Or at least Marvel comics. Pureauthor fucked around with this message at 08:49 on Oct 20, 2016 |
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Oct 20, 2016 08:44
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there are some really good comics by marvel going right now civil war 2 just isn't one of them
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Oct 20, 2016 08:47
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Has there been any sort of reaction from Marvel regarding reader responses towards CW2? This thread tells me that it ain't selling well, but has any of that been acknowledged by the company or is it all just the usual doubling-down, no-you-don't-get-it-people-actually-love-it PR-speak?
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Oct 20, 2016 09:30
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BrianWilly posted:Has there been any sort of reaction from Marvel regarding reader responses towards CW2? This thread tells me that it ain't selling well, but has any of that been acknowledged by the company or is it all just the usual doubling-down, no-you-don't-get-it-people-actually-love-it PR-speak? It's selling well enough for an event. Well... a little under, but Brian. I think you need to understand "Angry Fans = Good"    And, to a degree, you can see this currently. Let's take Riri Williams for example. You've got the racists who are mad she's black, you've got the sexists who are mad she's a woman, you've got the traditionalists who are mad that they've killed Tony Stark and replaced him period (Same thing happened with Hal Jordan), Then you've got the people bitching that she's sexualized, that she's not black enough, that this is Marvel simply trying to placate an audience, you've got the people complaining that Marvel chose a name for the character (Riri) which is ghetto for Retard. You've the people laughing that her hero name, Ironheart, is the name of an Ironman porn parody. And then, in the very loving tiny minority, you have people who are content and fine with this change. Marvel, is happy, because it's better than apathy, and when fans get angry, they buy books right? That's how it used to work. But the new audience, who came in because Marvel is doing something new and interesting to them, don't want to be made angry. And the old audience, has largely grown apathetic and given up, or they're still mad and buying comics. So Marvel is trying the old strategy, which used to be "Piss of the fans and rake in the dough if sales are down." on the new fans, and don't get that the new fans don't want this. Champions was the major example of this, it was supposed to be their new spearhead, and compared to what it should have done? it did poorly. And then the previews for issue 2 show Hulk and Nova fighting! So the book that's selling itself on "Heroes fighting Heroes are dumb lets change things." Is going to open its second issue on at least two of the team members not getting along and fighting. Marvel doesn't know any better. And they wont know any better until something shakes up Marvel corporate. This is the most lukewarm relaunch since Nu52. It's like how they decided in 2015 "We're going to make Ironman the face of Marvel, our top superhero." and they failed (Spiderman and anything Wolverine is in still outsells Tony to an absurd degree) And this year it's "Let's turn Carol Danvers into our Wonder Woman and an A-List heroine." And as of right now it's a loving failure on all levels. And lets be clear, Marvel doing new things with characters and inventing new characters, is not the reason for their sales slump. It is entirely because they are treating their new fans, like old fans, and the old fans finally hit that point where anger became apathy. And until Marvel realizes this has happened, and that part of the benefit of bringing in new readers is to then make those readers want to stay... this is not going to change. Like Pure in this thread. Wants to try Marvel books, runs into this Civil War nonsense, which doesn't have the decency to just gently caress itself about, it has to gently caress everything else about. And we're following this up with Death of X and Inhumans vs X-Men, and these events will "Sell" to a degree that event comics sell, but they wont do well. So... long story short, no. Marvel has investigated Marvel and found that Marvel is doing well and Civil War II is a good and cool event. Bendis's interviews on this subject is basically "Shut the gently caress up this is nuanced and you don't know where it's going." EDIT: Also I can't tell if these image links are broken because my net is currently throttled apologies if they are.
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Oct 20, 2016 09:55
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I know some people think I have it out for the guy, but this kinda thinking is definitely in line with what Quesada always believed about comics. He reignited Marvel vs DC because he thinks fanboy flame wars boost sales, he loved Civil War and Avengers Disassembled because it made fans angry and thus interested, etc... He's far from the only guy who thinks comics work this way, but he's probably one of the biggest sources of this kind of "conventional wisdom" in current Marvel. His largely successful run as EIC was full of controversies that generated massive sales. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z_YEPx1Jrfw&t=27s But the new, younger, female audience Marvel's been building carefully these last few years doesn't know they're supposed to get mad and buy more stuff, apparently. And I hope the message eventually reaches corporate.
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Oct 20, 2016 10:13
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How much do the companies rely on big events for their sales?
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Oct 20, 2016 12:29
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SomeJazzyRat posted:Goddamn it, are they going to give every OG X-Men a title? The thing that segment of Marvel needs more than anything is less books, not more. People spent the last few years in fear that Marvel wants to kill off the X-Men line and every book that was cancelled fed into this view. Now they start a bunch of new ones and it's not right either. Whatever they do, someone will complain. 
Decius fucked around with this message at 13:00 on Oct 20, 2016 |
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Oct 20, 2016 12:56
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Wheat Loaf posted:How much do the companies rely on big events for their sales? Not an easy question. Events always sell better. Like... Civil War II is still doing 200k in the shops let alone online. It is doing well for a comic, but bad for an event. Like the list always pretty much reads like... Event, Batman, Superman, JLA, Avengers, Spiderman, Whatever Logan is doing. It used to be X-Men but Marvel has... lack of more appealing term? Completely skullfucked that brand in an effort to gently caress over Fox. X-Men always used to be in the top 10, and now we're lucky if it sells. During a few periods Green Lantern was also up there. During Ron Marz's run on the book, it actually beat JLA and Batman as the best selling DC book, which was hilarious because, you ask people now and they say Marz killed the series. And he didn't it was Winnick and Raab who just murdered it right then and there. Which... sorry to segue, is proof that you can make a character who wasn't a best selling A-Lister into one. Because at the time Marz was writing it was only beaten by Superman, Batman and Morrison's JLA and Kyle Rayner was on the JLA. Marvel's goal of "Let's make Iron Man the front runner of Marvel" and "Lets make Carol Danvers an A-List star." are not impossible dreams to achieve. They are very doable. They just have no loving idea how to do it. Okay so... the top sales these days. Let's use September 2016 cause it's recent.  And now lets look a year ago, to when Secret Wars Issue 5 was out.  That is almost 80,000 less. Again, physical, Digital we don't know. But consider that Secret Wars was basically the best selling comic every month of 2015 it was out. So lets go earlier than this to 2012 and look at Avengers vs X-Men #5 which was a truly poo poo event  So yeah. Civil War II, is under performing, and event comics, usually bring a boost to sales. And typically top the charts for the months they're out. But lets be clear, Civil War II did not start out doing poo poo, it started out doing almost 400,000 physical sales. Issue 2 was a 177 thousand basically. In comparison, Secret Wars did 527,678 for its issue 1. and its issue 2 did 210,807, and it essentially sat in that 200,000 range.
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Oct 20, 2016 13:01
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Heh yeah, Marvel publishing three books with "X-Men" in the title and assigning their top writers and artists to it! That'll totally gently caress over Fox! Anyway, keep in mind all of those comics with an asterisk are fully returnable, so they were likely ordered way more than they'll actually end up selling, and the Diamond sales charts are sales to stores, not through to readers.
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Oct 20, 2016 13:43
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Endless Mike posted:Heh yeah, Marvel publishing three books with "X-Men" in the title and assigning their top writers and artists to it! That'll totally gently caress over Fox! We aren't comparing their sales to DC sales, we're comparing their sales to themselves. And yeah, X-Men sells like poo poo now. This is the absolute worst the brand has been in decades at least. You'd think they'd at least have maintained their sales like every other comic seems to do but somehow X-Men seems to have sold like complete poo poo. I'm sure it's all being made up for in digital. And... no actually your right, legitimately not taking the piss. You are correct. Never attribute to malice what can be equally attributed to sheer stupidity. X-men isn't doing badly because Marvel wants the movie rights back and are willing to kill the comic to get them. X-Men is doing badly because marvel is incompetent and managed to turn one of their hottest franchises into untouchable dog poo poo.
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Oct 20, 2016 13:54
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Besides Civil War 2, Marvel is still pretty awesome. Infamous Iron Man is off to a good start, and we still have another Iron Man, another Thor, and an Avengers book with Waid and Del Mundo coming down the pipes.
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Oct 20, 2016 15:55
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Huh.
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Oct 20, 2016 16:17
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Resurroion continues to be a mysterious event.
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Oct 20, 2016 16:20
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Read USG and PWakaH today. Scott is just SO PISSED about being in Canada!
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Oct 20, 2016 16:24
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I like that it has more New Mutants panels that Generation X panels.
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Oct 20, 2016 16:25
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Waffleman_ posted:Read USG and PWakaH today. Black Squirrels? Milk in Bags? Blatant displays of Hockey equipment? It's too bad that was it for A-force and Mockingbird, both ended on fairly downer notes. With luck, this version of Bobbi will make it into an Avengers title or something else. I love how Leth is showing Patsy being a goof but still maintaining her fighting skills. When she goes up against Felicia it will be pretty interesting. Also Shogo is not forgotten! Dazzler may be one of the new X-men solo books, even though she had a series, what? 35 years ago? I'd but the hell out of a book with Jubilee, Pixie, Dani and Hope. Poor Hope, I'm the only one who liked vs Avengers Vs X-men.
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Oct 20, 2016 16:48
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The X-Men rumor said as many as 18 new titles and I am 100% for it. Give them a shot in the arm, it's time to make the X-Men great again.
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Oct 20, 2016 17:02
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Endless Mike posted:Huh. Cannonball looking super pumped to be on that cover.
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Oct 20, 2016 18:12
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Are we guessing a mishmash of old "young x-men" teams, or a new generation to tell stories about for a year or two and then forget about?
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Oct 20, 2016 18:15
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Can't blame him. He's been doing just fine with the Avengers.
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Oct 20, 2016 18:16
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Lobok posted:Cannonball looking super pumped to be on that cover. He learned to fly from Stardust the Super-Wizard.
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Oct 20, 2016 18:40
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Nobby posted:Are we guessing a mishmash of old "young x-men" teams, or a new generation to tell stories about for a year or two and then forget about? I think and hope it's the former. Make Gen-X the high-school / coming of age book and use it to give C and D lister mutants a chance to have some screen time. We really don't need new mutants, but seeing the New Mutants do stuff is always welcome.
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Oct 20, 2016 18:43
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Where's Cannonball been since SW?
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Oct 20, 2016 18:44
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Rhyno posted:Where's Cannonball been since SW? Hanging out with Roberto.
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Oct 20, 2016 18:47
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Codependent Poster posted:Hanging out with Roberto. Has he been in New Avengers? I fell off the book after #3.
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Oct 20, 2016 18:49
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Rhyno posted:Has he been in New Avengers? I fell off the book after #3. Yes, and New Avengers is so good. But yeah, Roberto called him, and Sam took a break from his girl and kid to go be nigh invulnerable while blastin' with his buddy. Warlock too.
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Oct 20, 2016 18:51
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Codependent Poster posted:Yes, and New Avengers is so good. I'll get around to catching up eventually. There's too many good books to keep up on everything.
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Oct 20, 2016 18:55
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Endless Mike posted:Huh. I feel like they are just releasing all these books to shame me for being Unlimited only.
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Oct 20, 2016 19:32
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Rick posted:I feel like they are just releasing all these books to shame me for being Unlimited only. Nah, but the time they hit Unlimited you'll know which ones to skip.
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Oct 20, 2016 19:54
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We don't have any X-Factor / Excalibur / X-Force secondary titles anymore. Merging the New Mutants / X-Force / Generation X era characters into a new secondary book called Generation X works for me. It certainly beats the current X-Men / Adjective X-Men / Other Adjective X-Men / Multiple Word Title X-Men offerings we currently have. Making Generation X another book about teenagers seems wrong since Generation X is a term most commonly used for people that are now aged 35-50. I'm sure if they wanted to do a new book for millennial mutants it'll be called Netflix-men & Chill / #XOLO / X-SquadGoals.
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Oct 20, 2016 20:04
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Endless Mike posted:Huh. All of those new(er) mutants and no Rockslide. It's like Marvel doesn't want my money 
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Oct 20, 2016 20:10
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Heathen posted:We don't have any X-Factor / Excalibur / X-Force secondary titles anymore. Merging the New Mutants / X-Force / Generation X era characters into a new secondary book called Generation X works for me. It certainly beats the current X-Men / Adjective X-Men / Other Adjective X-Men / Multiple Word Title X-Men offerings we currently have. Making Generation X another book about teenagers seems wrong since Generation X is a term most commonly used for people that are now aged 35-50. These books are 6 months+ away, they have plenty of time to announce more books.
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Oct 20, 2016 20:12
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Onmi posted:The thing is, X-Men have always been so prolific as to basically be their own mini-franchise of marvel. Then Marvel got the bright idea to "Bring them more into the Marvel Universe." loving up their niche. Soon, it will be Maggott's time to shine! Endless Mike posted:Huh. SOLD. Endless Mike posted:I like that it has more New Mutants panels that Generation X panels. I don't. But maybe it will be good anyway.
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Oct 20, 2016 21:50
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Endless Mike posted:Huh. I will buy this solely because the Deer Girl is on the cover.
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Oct 20, 2016 22:38
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drat it I forgot what thread this was again SORRY
WickedHate fucked around with this message at 23:28 on Oct 20, 2016 |
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Oct 20, 2016 23:26
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TwoPair posted:All of those new(er) mutants and no Rockslide. It's like Marvel doesn't want my money It's just panel snippets. It doesn't mean Rockslide's not going to be in the book. They just stuck together random collages that might or might not have to do with the book (see also Weapon X and how Iceman has both young/old Bobby on it)
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Oct 21, 2016 01:09
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