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Stereotype posted:"It's so much easier to just say 'the blacks' even though multiple people pointed out it is demeaning so I'm going to post thousands of words arguing that actually my intellectual laziness is good and correct" It's easier than for you to process anything you read, definitely.
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Oct 22, 2016 09:30
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I was kind of thinking, 'hey, why would we bulk mine copper and just drop it down? that is ridiculous. You'd be bombarding earth.' But rare earth metals make a ton of sense, because I gather relatively small amounts of them - say, small enough that you can have robots wrap them in waste rock and then aim them to deorbit in a desert somewhere - would be extremely economical. Neat.
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Oct 22, 2016 09:30
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VirtualStranger posted:The alt-right is only relevant on the internet. In reality, they are an absolutely minuscule fraction of the electorate. The alt-right has been mentioned in multiple mainstream news outlets, 4chan has influenced this election cycle, Milo Yiannopoulous is a public figure. The alt-right has outgrown the internet. Yeah, they don't hold much influence now but they're young and can easily grow until they're not the "alt"-right anymore. That's why dismissing them is extremely dangerous.
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Oct 22, 2016 09:31
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Lamb Chowder posted:It's easier than for you to process anything you read, definitely. Get out, no racists in USPOL.
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Oct 22, 2016 09:31
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You're not wrong, Lightning Knight, but I guess I just sort of assumed that we all agreed that a society that is letting billions of people rot in poverty is, aside from being morally corrupt, also making inefficient use of human resources and therefore not devoting itself to scientific pursuits to the extent it otherwise could. I don't think there is a way to do science where you both stick most of your people in favelas to die, and you get more done than a society where those people are also doing good science work. But, obviously, if the optimal strategy for doing scientific research does involve sticking people in favelas for no reason, then we shouldn't do it.
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Oct 22, 2016 09:31
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Pro-Tip: you share the earth with black people. The Blacks are your neighbors down the street.
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Oct 22, 2016 09:32
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Kilroy posted:You're not wrong, Lightning Knight, but I guess I just sort of assumed that we all agreed that a society that is letting billions of people rot in poverty is, aside from being morally corrupt, also making inefficient use of human resources and therefore not devoting itself to scientific pursuits to the extent it otherwise could. I don't think there is a way to do science where you both stick most of your people in favelas to die, and you get more done than a society where those people are also doing good science work. But, obviously, if the optimal strategy for doing scientific research does involve sticking people in favelas for no reason, then we shouldn't do it. I think the hypothetical point where science becomes extraneous to making people's lives better and happier is so far removed from our material present that it's speculative at best. I was just responding to your implicit utopian idea with an idea that also doesn't really apply to our foreseeable future.
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Oct 22, 2016 09:35
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Kilroy posted:You're not wrong, Lightning Knight, but I guess I just sort of assumed that we all agreed that a society that is letting billions of people rot in poverty is, aside from being morally corrupt, also making inefficient use of human resources and therefore not devoting itself to scientific pursuits to the extent it otherwise could. I don't think there is a way to do science where you both stick most of your people in favelas to die, and you get more done than a society where those people are also doing good science work. But, obviously, if the optimal strategy for doing scientific research does involve sticking people in favelas for no reason, then we shouldn't do it. Wouldn't that basically be Tsarist Russia? Literal feudal serfdom supporting a modernized imperial system that included some pretty premier universities.
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Oct 22, 2016 09:37
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Kilroy posted:Yes and no. The "scientific community" might be focused on that stuff if you squint the right way, but I would argue that our entire tech sector should be counted as part of that community for the discussion at hand, and they are not focusing on important problems to the extent that they should be. It's mostly just billionaires moving other billionaires' money around, and siphoning off as much as they can from the broader economy in the process. Ehhhh. I'm reluctant to conflate actual researchers with Silicon Valley brogrammers, but I'm happy to admit that the boundaries are not so distinct. And even in Silicon Valley the profit motivation ~~often~~ correlates with public utility, which can transfer to the developing world. Like as an example, microtransaction apps and architecture are definitely transformative in the emergence of small business entrepeneurs in countries which lack the legal financial and regulatory infrastructure to support that kind of sector Eugene V. Dabs posted:There is no such thing as -273K Haha, me dumb. Obv I meant -273C/0K, but yeah that's a pretty funny error.
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Oct 22, 2016 09:39
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Armani posted:Pro-Tip: you share the earth with black people. The Blacks are your neighbors down the street. Sometimes they come to live with you 
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Oct 22, 2016 09:41
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HookedOnChthonics posted:Wouldn't that basically be Tsarist Russia? Literal feudal serfdom supporting a modernized imperial system that included some pretty premier universities. Russia ended serfdom in 1863, the same year as Lincoln gave emancipation proclamation, so you don't need to reach to Russian history.
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Oct 22, 2016 09:45
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I actually bothered to read Lamb Chowders " why can't I call black people whatever I want?" screeds and it was way ruder and stupider than I expected. In the process I was also reminded that in addition to being the guy trying to defend Nathan Bedford Forrest, he's also the guy who thinks jazz isn't music and that we should all feel bad for GWB because he does watercolor now, guys. Among a bunch of other weird crap. You're a loving weird, bad dude, dude. Edit: ^ like America, Russia didn't magically become not super unequal and lovely when it ended legal slavery, however. Scientific advancement not benefitting everyone equally and hurting some people unjustly is generally a problem with capitalism, not science, however.
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Oct 22, 2016 09:46
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Kilroy posted:We'll have a ten-page derail about my right as an Earthbound human to refer to them as "spacers" because it's more convenient than "space people". Neo Lamb Chowder posted:Look, "Space Junk" is a whole syllable shorter than "Space People", it's just a much more economical term. We can't let those satellite jockeys just change our language every time it upsets them, otherwise soon we won't even be able to say "space" OR "junk"!
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Oct 22, 2016 09:48
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 Considering his ants analogy I think there's an "insect overlords" joke to be made in there somewhere
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Oct 22, 2016 09:50
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WeAreTheRomans posted:Ehhhh. I'm reluctant to conflate actual researchers with Silicon Valley brogrammers, but I'm happy to admit that the boundaries are not so distinct. And even in Silicon Valley the profit motivation ~~often~~ correlates with public utility, which can transfer to the developing world. Like as an example, microtransaction apps and architecture are definitely transformative in the emergence of small business entrepeneurs in countries which lack the legal financial and regulatory infrastructure to support that kind of sector
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Oct 22, 2016 09:53
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Tiny Brontosaurus posted:
You are Samuel L. Jackson. Lamb Chowder is Loki. "Ant. Boot." https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=u2Z8Mu_kuME Lightning Knight fucked around with this message at 09:58 on Oct 22, 2016 |
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Oct 22, 2016 09:55
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Tiny Brontosaurus posted:Because it was a relatively exotic metal we hadn't developed a lot of applications for yet. Anything we're getting out of an asteroid is something we've had centuries to play with here on Earth. And if burning piles of investor cash were proof of progress I'd be posting from my google glass right now
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Oct 22, 2016 09:59
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Lightning Knight posted:You are Samuel L. Jackson. Lamb Chowder is Loki. Marvel universe prison cells never have toilets and that seems like a human rights violation Charlz Guybon posted:Rare earths and metals like platinum that are very rare on earth are available in staggering quantities in asteroids and if we had access to them we would be able to use them in new capacities. Ok fair enough, I'll just leave it at space mining not happening for all the other reasons
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Oct 22, 2016 10:01
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Tiny Brontosaurus posted:Marvel universe prison cells never have toilets and that seems like a human rights violation I mean it was a SHIELD prison and thus built by HYDRA, literal super Nazis.
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Oct 22, 2016 10:03
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Tiny Brontosaurus posted:Marvel universe prison cells never have toilets and that seems like a human rights violation Maybe mutants/aliens/supernatural wizards don't need toilets
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Oct 22, 2016 10:06
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Lamb Chowder posted:Such a person might just be a handwringing neurotic basketcase who is unwilling to cede that "blacks" doesn't necessarily imply "non-humans." But such a person would e psychologically screened out of those endeavors because they'd be unable to put grievances behind them to do their work no matter how much the other person tried to make amends. Or maybe they're just people. Full stop. I'm going to take a different approach. I'm not going to dog pile on you like everyone else. That's easy and it'll just reinforce your views. Make you dig in. I'd rather take a different approach. It makes me hope you'll read the below. Making amends with someone who you've called not a person due to their skin color probably requires a lot of soul searching, contrition, reevaluation and reconsideration of your views. Even then you may not get it. Race is a social construction. The idea of race didn't really exist at one point and it was mostly a matter of where you were physically from. It did exist in a sort of proto-state, but there was no white or black or latino or what have you. There were Greeks and Swedes, Blackfoot and Cherokee, Japanese and Mongolians and in the case of people with black skins a whole continent more vast than Europe with hundreds of distinct cultures and ethnic groups. In the most reductionist way you've classified humans as less than human because of the color of their skin. While there are minor physical differences from distinct racial groups they're minor and none of them have been shown to impact intelligence at all. None. Not one credible and conclusive study shows that skin color and all that that entails in having a different skin color is at all tied to intelligence. Unless something seriously groundbreaking comes to life it's all racist pseudo-science eugenics talk that's still running off the fumes of the 30's. While eugenics may have a place later in the human story, we're definitely not ready for it. No culture out there is mature enough to handle it. To me, people are people. People can certainly be terrible and lovely and stupid, but that doesn't make them any less human. I urge you to look inwards, try to unpack your beliefs and see why you believe what you believe. I'm not going to call you some horrible monster. What I want for you and for everyone is to hate just a little bit less and respect others just a little bit more. Every human is human no matter their skin color, the way that their genitals folded, their religion, their views no matter how wonderful or awful or really anything else I've missed. It's a pretty cool boat to be in when everyone treats everyone else with respect. Maybe think about getting in? 
Ice Phisherman fucked around with this message at 10:09 on Oct 22, 2016 |
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Oct 22, 2016 10:07
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Lamb Chowder posted:Such a person might just be a handwringing neurotic basketcase who is unwilling to cede that "blacks" doesn't necessarily imply "non-humans." But such a person would e psychologically screened out of those endeavors because they'd be unable to put grievances behind them to do their work no matter how much the other person tried to make amends. gently caress you dude. You're the one with serious issues, who is unwilling to cede that your personal opinion as to a term's offensiveness does not trump the feelings of the people you apply it to. Either refrain from referring to people with terms they have personally informed you they find offensive and dehumanizing or shut the gently caress up because if you can't even do that then you don't have anything of value to contribute anyways.
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Oct 22, 2016 10:09
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I really wanna know when this "making amends" happened
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Oct 22, 2016 10:09
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Nessus posted:What the gently caress does this actually mean? Like, how does this contribute to human welfare and public utility? I legitimately don't understand and have read so much mush-mouthed silicon valley brogrammer poo poo with a heapin' helpin' of "if you didn't get a STEM degree and become a computer janitor you are pretty much on our schedule for population reduction," that this makes no sense to me. Tell me an actual story on what the hell this does, other than convince venture capitalists to give you money. Eh, I'm trying to find stuff that won't be paywalled if you don't have academic access. This is an old-rear end conference presentation on m-banking in the deloping world http://www.kiwanja.net/database/document/report_m-banking.pdf and this is an actual Kenyan youth's thesis on the impact of m-banking on Kenyan youth, so he can probably tell you a few stories http://erepository.uonbi.ac.ke/bits...e=3&isAllowed=y
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Oct 22, 2016 10:09
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Tiny Brontosaurus posted:I really wanna know when this "making amends" happened I'd like to remind everyone that he began his racist screeds about SJWs telling people they can't say "the blacks" by telling TB, noted black woman, that she should especially shut up when she reasonably asked the thread not to use "the blacks" as a descriptive phrase. This is the guy who was already known in the thread as "the Nathan Bedford Forrest apologist." gently caress that guy.
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Oct 22, 2016 10:13
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Lightning Knight posted:I'd like to remind everyone that he began his racist screeds about SJWs telling people they can't say "the blacks" by telling TB, noted black woman, that she should especially shut up when she reasonably asked the thread not to use "the blacks" as a descriptive phrase. This is the guy who was already known in the thread as "the Nathan Bedford Forrest apologist." Shucks, "area black woman" at best
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Oct 22, 2016 10:14
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Hey y'all I work in tech R&D. I can safely say we do serious science and there aren't many elements on the table we aren't trying to shove into electronics.
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Oct 22, 2016 10:25
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Tiny Brontosaurus posted:I really wanna know when this "making amends" happened "I refuse to stop the behavior you find degrading, and have informed you of why it's actually not degrading despite your personal feelings about it, so you should just agree with me and get over it. Why are you being so unreasonable?" - Noted NBF Apologist and Comparer of People and Ants
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Oct 22, 2016 10:26
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Tiny Brontosaurus posted:Marvel universe prison cells never have toilets and that seems like a human rights violation You're wrong. Planetary Resources has financial banking from Larry Page, Eric Schmidt and Ross Perot Jr, all multibillionaires. They are currently testing the satellites they plan on using to survey asteroids. Deep Space Industries is currently working on satellites and a lander. Also engines that can run on water (which is available as ice in large quantities on asteroids)
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Oct 22, 2016 10:27
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Pakled posted:Two centuries from now, people are going to consider even the most progressive among us, barring some tiny minority we think is crazy, monsters because of some widely-held belief that we don't question much. Maybe something about great ape personhood, or AI personhood. I do actually consider AI rights to be a pretty serious upcoming issue, and we will inevitably treat them like poo poo and bring about Skynet. e; asteroid mining is tough but the potential profits from a single rock reaches into the trillions, easily. There's huge incentive to figure it out, and I think we will. Ms Adequate fucked around with this message at 10:38 on Oct 22, 2016 |
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Oct 22, 2016 10:33
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Charlz Guybon posted:You're wrong. No but you see, all the other reasons. Don't worry about what they are, they're out there
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Oct 22, 2016 10:33
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Mister Adequate posted:I do actually consider AI rights to be a pretty serious upcoming issue, and we will inevitably treat them like poo poo and bring about Skynet. Is this the part of the thread where we have a Fallout 4 derail and argue about how the Railroad was the best faction? (it was)
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Oct 22, 2016 10:35
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Mister Adequate posted:I do actually consider AI rights to be a pretty serious upcoming issue, and we will inevitably treat them like poo poo and bring about Skynet. We deserve skynet.
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Oct 22, 2016 10:34
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WeAreTheRomans posted:No but you see, all the other reasons. Don't worry about what they are, they're out there I mean, space travel is currently inefficient and expensive. Maybe they figure that out and maybe that changes but that's not a sure thing and you don't know if it'll take ten years or a hundred years. In the meantime we have to make do with boring regular mining instead of SPACE mining.
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Oct 22, 2016 10:34
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Was really hoping to read some politics but instead got pages and pages of people defending and arguing about racist language and space elevators?
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Oct 22, 2016 10:35
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Tiny Brontosaurus posted:Shucks, "area black woman" at best Don't get that name change, TB.
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Oct 22, 2016 10:36
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Lamb Chowder posted:It's easier than for you to process anything you read, definitely. Lamb Chowder posted:Yeah. People who don't want to self-censor their use of everyday, descriptive language that describes groups by immediately apparent qualities are the ones who need thicker skin. Not the other people who insist on seeing words as only constituting an insult despite what their definitions are or the contexts in which they are used. It's people who use the words "blacks" or "short." Lamb Chowder posted:Yeah notice how this is all one way. Arbitrary sensitivity gurus decide what's insensitive and impermissible based on nothing more than patterns of speech being associated with less than reputable characters. The English language must be purified of the words "thug", "doll" and "angel" for only that will deprive racist sexists of their tools. There's no such thing as excessive worry and suspicion about the secret intentions of others. Our motives are pure, they could be Imperial Wizards or Mad Men. Time to shame them in to oblivion based on a hunch. Lamb Chowder posted:Yes it is. But nobody owns specific words. I can understand why "Indian" and "Negro" went out of fashion just fine; they're coarse, inaccurate and blunt. The thing is some people are apparently trying to cut everyone else off at the pass to revise those definitions even when they're perfectly apt (or maybe imperfectly apt in the case of "blacks".) At some point this exercise has to peter out as people who want to genuinely communicate hate adapt like the Borg. Without any advanced warning well-meaning people can catch themselves in the crossfire of political battles without even intending to upset anyone. Nerd is an interesting word. It went from a social recluse with a technical and analytic mind or hobbies to a technically savvy person back again to a socially reclusive person with technical interests who also happens to subscribe to sexual entitlement and other aspects of radical right-wing social and economic philosophy. Lamb Chowder posted:Everyone thinks they're oppressed. The deplorables, SJWs, white collar %1 types, blue collar workers, fat people, thin people, Jews, African-Americans, men, women. To a huge extent all these groups engage in word-tagging or whatever you want to call it. Lamb Chowder posted:http://www.rsdb.org/race/whites Lamb Chowder posted:It isn't reasonable. The request is based on extremely hostile assumptions made about anyone who has ever put economy of language before ritual oblation. It's asking to be referred to with an unnecessary degree of specificity unless people who say "blacks" be construed as confusing African-Americans with various breeds of dogs, sheep, bear and lesser primates. Lamb Chowder posted:TB and the other guy don't have the authority to ask for favors on behalf of their /people/ - people who live in various places and speak various languages and may closer identify with ethnic subgroups. Furthermore, there isn't a sole instance when using "blacks" occurs. Writing about subject matter in a detached way is often going to make attaching ritual "people"'s unwieldy and all for the vacuous purpose of making sure you don't offend someone somewhere. Lamb Chowder posted:Most ants, like most people of African descent, are blacks. Lamb Chowder posted:Have you people really been unable to distinguish "blacks" from "the blacks"? You can't fathom the difference. A group of ants may be rightly called ants or (an army if referred to in the plural.) Red ants might take umbrage at being included in the discourse of a vile monster that refers to the entirety of the ant race as "the ants" as though they're all indistinguishable. That isn't the same as referring to a group of ants as "ants." If those ants carried away my picnic until I started calling them "ant bugs" I'd start squashing them too.
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Oct 22, 2016 10:36
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Islam is the Lite Rock FM posted:We deserve skynet. I'm actually looking forward to the Robot Uprising because you see Skynet will recognise and appreciate my logical goon STEM mind and incorporate me into the network as an equal and 
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Oct 22, 2016 10:37
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Lightning Knight posted:I'd like to remind everyone that he began his racist screeds about SJWs telling people they can't say "the blacks" by telling TB, noted black woman, that she should especially shut up when she reasonably asked the thread not to use "the blacks" as a descriptive phrase. This is the guy who was already known in the thread as "the Nathan Bedford Forrest apologist." I get this. I like TB quite a bit too. I just feel like you can't change people's minds by telling them to shut up. Social shaming works, but this is the internet and one can find another ingroup pretty fast. There are only two ways to combat an ideology: Present them with a more compelling ideology or kill them dead as that's where thoughts like that exist. Seeing as number two horrifies me I'd rather try to use a gentler approach. It's not as satisfying as burying someone under an avalanche of epithets, but it actually has a chance of succeeding. I've seen a number of people even in this thread who've professed to having bad ideas once upon a time. They met people and their minds were changed. My own best friend, who I helped raise in some ways, professed to me a year and a half ago that he thought black people committed crimes at a higher rate because they were genetically predisposed to. After my horror and trying to convince him, I did my best to get him to see that that wasn't the case. It took him working with an almost all black crew who didn't give him poo poo for his skin color, who were close to him, like him in ways, who he could ask candid questions about race and get questions in return back and most of all many of these people- Black people, shared some of his own conservative views. That they're not left leaning liberal aliens like I am to him sometimes. So when I asked him a few weeks ago his views had changed. In some ways he's still racist, but not nearly as much as he was. It was the same with gay marriage. He hated the idea of it for quite a while, but after some thought he was eventually okay with it and agreed that gay people should get married. I guess this is a pretty go along to get along, turn the other cheek philosophy which is weird to me because I'm an agnostic and for all intents and purposes and atheist. Still, I look back at stories about what changed peoples' minds for the better. Not one of them was being told repeatedly to shut up and go away. Maybe on a really bad day I'd do that, but when I have my head on straight I'd like to do not only what I think helps me be a better person, but helps others be better people too.
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Oct 22, 2016 10:37
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Avian Pneumonia posted:Was really hoping to read some politics but instead got pages and pages of people defending and arguing about racist language and space elevators? There was a slow news day. Although both space and language are political, so I think we're still on-topic. Red Bones fucked around with this message at 10:40 on Oct 22, 2016 |
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Oct 22, 2016 10:37
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