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I think I need to watch a movie about the meaning of retirement before I can get all the quips about Hawkeye's retirement.
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Oct 24, 2016 13:55
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Logan
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Oct 24, 2016 14:13
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well why not posted:Also, imagine seeing CW without knowing about or seeing Ant-Man. Hey, here's Paul Rudd in this superhero movie and he has superpowers and seems to know the Falcon for some reason? Guess you should've done your homework! Detective Dog Dick posted:Falcon very clearly indicates that he knows a guy. Looking at it from this perspective, I guess this explains why Falcon's line was in all of the trailers. Not that anyone who is even casually aware of the Avengers franchise would have been able to escape all the ads for Ant Man anyway.
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Oct 24, 2016 14:23
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Empire Strikes Back is objectively the worst film because it requires me to do homework. Who is this Darth Vader guy and why should I care that he is Luke's father? Get your poo poo together Lucas.
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Oct 24, 2016 14:47
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Thats such a weird complaint to bring up. "Imagine if this person just SHOWS UP in a movie claiming to be a friend of the main character?!?! Hah? What shennanigans! How DARE they let someone just SHOW UP in a movie like that?!!!!"
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Oct 24, 2016 14:50
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I mean to be fair they could've done it a lot better, for example they could've had Ant-Man's intro scene in Civil War feature a bunch of cheesy and endearing comedic beats where he's Really Just Stoked To Be Here Man, immediately letting you know what kind of guy he is and what he'll be narratively bringing to the table in the upcoming confrontation
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Oct 24, 2016 14:54
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Detective Dog Dick posted:Falcon very clearly indicates that he knows a guy. I want to see more movies do this. Maybe a heist movie where one main character says he "knows a guy" and then he brings along a ventriloquist or a pediatrician. Bedshaped posted:I thought Lady Deathstrike was the red haired lady from The Wolverine like the red haired lady from the cartoon... drat the X Men movie series is awful There's only one redhead of any importance in the X-men movies and it's Jean.
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Oct 24, 2016 15:27
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Jenny Angel posted:I mean to be fair they could've done it a lot better, for example they could've had Ant-Man's intro scene in Civil War feature a bunch of cheesy and endearing comedic beats where he's Really Just Stoked To Be Here Man, immediately letting you know what kind of guy he is and what he'll be narratively bringing to the table in the upcoming confrontation What you described is more or less what happened though
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Oct 24, 2016 15:34
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TheKingofSprings posted:What you described is more or less what happened though [in a stage whisper] Yup
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Oct 24, 2016 15:34
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TheKingofSprings posted:What you described is more or less what happened though  I do t just want to emoji quote and run but
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Oct 24, 2016 15:39
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Burkion posted:It was, and the fact that Tony doesn't know himself is ludicrous. It was Hydra files that went up along side SHIELD. This is more what I mean, I didn't mind Tony not knowing by then even if that's stupid (and honestly Winter Soldier was long enough ago that I forgot myself), it was just stupid that it was unknown to him for basically the entire movie,* and again would have been a way more olausible thing that would cause them to switch sides compared to Wanda being grounded for a month. Like forgetting the Civil War comics, EVERYTHING in the previous movies would have Cap on the folks should be reigned in side and Iron Man on the total freedom to do whatever side. That information breaking gives Cap a personal interest in NOT letting the govt use the accord to order the Avengers to bring Bucky in even if it's against how he rolls in the other flicks, and Iron Man a personal reason to really really want that even though it's also against his overall ideals. It wouldn't even really change the movie much beyond making both characters' behavior seem more reasonable since they both have an overriding personal motivation that makes both of them right and wrong at the same time, which would have been cool. I liked the movie a lot overall but revealing that so late was so transparently a cheap way to enact a final brawl between them so we could end with Cap's Very Special Lesson letter instead of having them clealry remain friends or enemies. Instead they have space from each other, Black Panther will perfect the memory replacement stuff Stark was playing with as we see in the ending, and by the time the next movie happens they'll all be best buds. So unlike Winter Soldier they didn't even pretend to have it conclude in a way that would actually need to change the status quo of the world despite all the game changing stuff that happens in the flick itself. *Hanging out with Iron Man this whole time we have: Black Widow: Superpower - Encyclopedic knowledge of all black ops/secret agent/special forces actions ever taken anywhere in history. Vision: Superpower - Literally Digital Information Processing Jesus.
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Oct 24, 2016 15:48
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But Tony and Steve were very clearly friends at the end. 
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Oct 24, 2016 15:52
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Neo Rasa posted:I liked the movie a lot overall but revealing that so late was so transparently a cheap way to enact a final brawl between them so we could end with Cap's Very Special Lesson letter instead of having them clealry remain friends or enemies.
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Oct 24, 2016 16:01
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Drifter posted:But Tony and Steve were very clearly friends at the end. Pretty much, but I think that was weak given the dramatic bomb they drop like 15 minutes before the movie ends after the naturenof the struggle they just had. When Tony allows the prison break to happen at the very end though, did he do that because they're froends or because he just didn't want to feel responsible for their imprisonment? The movie flaots this idea earlier in (from Stark himself) as to how it sort of doesn't matter why anything's done as long as it's a good thing but again it's like they tried to fit all the actual character development into the film's closing closing moments where we see all of this come to a head. Neo Rasa fucked around with this message at 16:15 on Oct 24, 2016 |
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Oct 24, 2016 16:08
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Steve's best friend is Bucky, but he's also the kind of guy to be ok with his other good friend literally trying to murder him, I guess.
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Oct 24, 2016 16:13
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Drifter posted:Thats such a weird complaint to bring up. "Imagine if this person just SHOWS UP in a movie claiming to be a friend of the main character?!?! Hah? What shennanigans! How DARE they let someone just SHOW UP in a movie like that?!!!!" I'm mostly fooling around, but yeah I actually do think it's unusual to introduce a character in the third act of a film.
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Oct 24, 2016 16:18
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I wish I actually cared about Steve and Bucky. Maybe I am not remembering details but we're just told THEY ARE BFF'S FIVE-EVER! He was in the first movie and drops from a plane. Oh wait, was Bucky the guy who stood up for him when he was going to get pummeled in the alleyway?
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Oct 24, 2016 16:22
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Vintersorg posted:I wish I actually cared about Steve and Bucky. Maybe I am not remembering details but we're just told THEY ARE BFF'S FIVE-EVER! He was in the first movie and drops from a plane. Yes. Also it shows how drat bland this stuff is when he actually got dropped from a train.
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Oct 24, 2016 16:24
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Does Cap value Bucky so much because they're BFFs for life or because Bucky is now Cap's only living link to his pre-modern life?
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Oct 24, 2016 16:46
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Probably both to be honest, it doesn't help that letting Bucky fall is arguably Steve's biggest personal failing in the first movie and to learn that failing to hold onto his best friend led to said best friend becoming the Winter Soldier, which is not a pleasant existence I imagine. Winter Soldier also shows off his own personal nightmare from Avengers 2 as well to an extent, Steve doesn't know how to put down his weapons and stop fighting is what that scene is meant to show, the Winter Soldier is a weapon who literally cannot choose to stop fighting so long as someone somewhere knows his activation code.
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Oct 24, 2016 16:55
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Lord_Magmar posted:Winter Soldier also shows off his own personal nightmare from Avengers 2 as well to an extent, Steve doesn't know how to put down his weapons and stop fighting is what that scene is meant to show, the Winter Soldier is a weapon who literally cannot choose to stop fighting so long as someone somewhere knows his activation code. I also took Steve's nightmare to mean that everything Steve Rogers once was and might have been, he sacrificed to become Captain America. Being that super-soldier, being Captain America is the only sense of self Steve has left. Bucky has an involuntary form of the same deal going on, but also represents the one link Steve has to a shy, sickly kid from Brooklyn. Stark's comment in Avengers 2 is telling: "Isn't that the reason why we fight? So we can end the fight and go home?" Steve doesn't have an answer to that, because he has no home. He has nothing except the fight.
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Oct 24, 2016 17:13
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Neo Rasa posted:Does Cap value Bucky so much because they're BFFs for life or because Bucky is now Cap's only living link to his pre-modern life? I would have to say the latter. I thought it was very smart of Civil War killing Peg at the beginning. Bucky is now it. He's all that's left. Which is why Cap's immediate "it's all good Tony, I don't take you trying to execute my best friend personally" turn is so ridiculously laughable. Moreso then the much maligned Martha Moment.
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Oct 24, 2016 17:40
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Megaman's Jockstrap posted:Which is why Cap's immediate "it's all good Tony, I don't take you trying to execute my best friend personally" turn is so ridiculously laughable. He doesn't say anything like that. His message was pretty much "I hosed up by not telling you about your parents but I stand by everything else I did. I trust Bucky and I might even be able to trust you again if you'll meet me halfway." quote:Tony, I'm glad you're back at the compound. I don't like the idea of you rattling around a mansion by yourself. We all need family. The Avengers are yours, maybe more so than mine. I've been on my own since I was 18. I never really fit in anywhere, even in the army. My faith's in people, I guess. Individuals. And I'm happy to say that, for the most part, they haven't let me down. Which is why I can't let them down either. Locks can be replaced, but maybe they shouldn't. I know I hurt you, Tony. I guess I thought by not telling you about your parents I was sparing you, but I can see now that I was really sparing myself, and I'm sorry. Hopefully one day you can understand. I wish we agreed on the Accords, I really do. I know you're doing what you believe in, and that's all any of us can do. That's all any of us should... So no matter what, I promise you, if you need us - if you need me - I'll be there. When he says "And I'm happy to say that, for the most part, they haven't let me down. Which is why I can't let them down either" he's obviously talking about Bucky but he's also talking about Tony as well.
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Oct 24, 2016 18:02
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I have faith in individuals and they've never let me down. Except that time where they tried to summarily execute my brainwashed best friend for something he doesn't remember doing. I had to physically beat you into submission after you cut m friend's arm off with a scalpel laser, Tony. But that's all water under the bridge, I believe in individuals, this isn't ridiculous at all.
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Oct 24, 2016 18:11
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The movie would be so much better without the airport fight (and the bit just before where Sharon Carter gives them their gear) and the letter ending.
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Oct 24, 2016 18:15
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Megaman's Jockstrap posted:I have faith in individuals and they've never let me down. Except that time where they tried to summarily execute my brainwashed best friend for something he doesn't remember doing. I had to physically beat you into submission after you cut m friend's arm off with a scalpel laser, Tony. But that's all water under the bridge, I believe in individuals, this isn't ridiculous at all. Yep, once again that's totally not what's in the film at all but you be you, I guess. If you're so determined to hate on the film that you're willing to invent poo poo then go for it.
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Oct 24, 2016 18:16
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Megaman's Jockstrap posted:I have faith in individuals and they've never let me down. Except that time where they tried to summarily execute my brainwashed best friend for something he doesn't remember doing. I had to physically beat you into submission after you cut m friend's arm off with a scalpel laser, Tony. But that's all water under the bridge, I believe in individuals, this isn't ridiculous at all. It's possible that Steve is capable of recognizing that Tony was being emotional at the moment. Like, maybe Captain America understands that a dude finding out his parent's killer is standing right next to him and his friend knew and hid the truth from him is going to react poorly to that.
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Oct 24, 2016 18:17
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Also Steve probably blames himself for Tony's reaction, and for not saving Bucky way back when which lead to the Winter Soldier being created. He's genuinely not hung up about the fight in the bunker but Megaman's Jockstrap's brain just can;t get over that point. BUT HE FOUGHT HIS FRIEND, HE SHOULD BE MAD AT HIMMMMMMMMMM.
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Oct 24, 2016 18:21
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Guy Goodbody posted:It's possible that Steve is capable of recognizing that Tony was being emotional at the moment. Like, maybe Captain America understands that a dude finding out his parent's killer is standing right next to him and his friend knew and hid the truth from him is going to react poorly to that. Then Captain America takes attempted murder laughably lightly, enough to be mocked. I don't hate the movie btw. I just felt that entire resolution was extremely stupid.
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Oct 24, 2016 18:21
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Snowglobe of Doom posted:Yep, once again that's totally not what's in the film at all but you be you, I guess. If you're so determined to hate on the film that you're willing to invent poo poo then go for it. Er... all of that stuff does happen in the film tho? I like the film a lot but the Tony stuff is definitely bad (although I agree with my fellow Guy up there that Steve is the kind of person who can forgive Tony anyway)
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Oct 24, 2016 18:21
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Guy Goodbody posted:It's possible that Steve is capable of recognizing that Tony was being emotional at the moment. Like, maybe Captain America understands that a dude finding out his parent's killer is standing right next to him and his friend knew and hid the truth from him is going to react poorly to that.
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Oct 24, 2016 18:21
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Guy A. Person posted:Er... all of that stuff does happen in the film tho? Steve's reaction to that stuff doesn't happen the way Megaman's Jockstrap's headcanon demands it should, though.
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Oct 24, 2016 18:22
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Halloween Jack posted:Steve's agenda in the film is to fight for Tony's right to have weapons, and to do whatever he wants with them (unless Steve doesn't like it). So he stops Tony from killing his best friend, but he doesn't take it personally. No, that's wrong. Steve's agenda is to be able to keep doing superhero stuff without answering to a larger organization that might turn out be secret fascists like SHIELD.
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Oct 24, 2016 18:24
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Snowglobe of Doom posted:Steve's reaction to that stuff doesn't happen the way Megaman's Jockstrap's headcanon demands it should, though. Yeah no poo poo, that's his point though. He is ridiculously accepting of Tony trying to revenge murder his brainwashed best friend, while he himself has to beat Tony into submission to prevent that from happening. I don't think that's a weird thing to find issue with EDIT: "prevent that from happened". English is my first language, I swear Guy A. Person fucked around with this message at 18:30 on Oct 24, 2016 |
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Oct 24, 2016 18:26
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Snowglobe of Doom posted:Steve's reaction to that stuff doesn't happen the way Megaman's Jockstrap's headcanon demands it should, though. It isn't a matter of "headcanon". "I have faith in the individual, people have never let me down, oh btw my comrade and friend of half a decade just tried to murder my other best friend and last link to my past with missiles and lasers and I had to punch him to get him to stop but we cool" is extremely choppy. Bucky matters a lot to Steve, to the point of obsession. The movie demonstrates this in a bunch of ways. Having him lightly dismiss his attempted murder with some finger-wagging and "but we're still friends" is about as much of an about-face as "Martha" flipping Batman. I'm fine with both, ultimately, but at least BvS had the good sense to make it a dramatic moment and not hurriedly shove it at the audience on it's way out the door.
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Oct 24, 2016 18:29
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Guy A. Person posted:Yeah no poo poo, that's his point though. He is ridiculously accepting of Tony trying to revenge murder his brainwashed best friend, while he himself has to beat Tony into submission to prevent that from happened. I don't think that's a weird thing to find issue with He doesn't say he accepts it. His letter very carefully doesn't bring it up the fight but he does say he doesn't regret standing by Bucky and "hopefully one day you can understand". Megaman's Jockstrap posted:It isn't a matter of "headcanon". "I have faith in the individual, people have never let me down, oh btw my comrade and friend of half a decade just tried to murder my other best friend and last link to my past with missiles and lasers and I had to punch him to get him to stop but we cool" is extremely choppy. Once again: all this is your interpretation that you're forcing onto the film and I don't agree with it. He doesn't say "people have never let me down", he doesn't say "we cool", he doesn't say "but we're still friends". I actually posted the text of the letter just a few posts ago, if you're struggling to comprehend it then maybe point out which words you don't understand and we can help you figure it out?
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Oct 24, 2016 18:33
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Guy Goodbody posted:No, that's wrong. Steve's agenda is to be able to keep doing superhero stuff without answering to a larger organization that might turn out be secret fascists like SHIELD. quote:Rhodey: Sorry, Steve, that... that is dangerously arrogant. This is the United Nations we're talking about. It's not the World Security Council, it's not S.H.I.E.L.D., it's not Hydra.
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Oct 24, 2016 18:35
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Bucky murdered Tony's parents. I think it's OK to understand Tony freaking the gently caress out about that in the moment. I really doubt Tony is going to try to kill Bucky on sight in Avengers 3. I mean, what do you want Steve to have written, "You're a terrible person Tony and I won't help you fight Thanos because you were mean to my friend"
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Oct 24, 2016 18:36
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Guy Goodbody posted:Bucky murdered Tony's parents. I think it's OK to understand Tony freaking the gently caress out about that in the moment. I really doubt Tony is going to try to kill Bucky on sight in Avengers 3. Of course he won't try to kill Bucky. Cap wrote him a letter!
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Oct 24, 2016 18:38
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well why not posted:It's a pretty bad narrative choice. These movies are rife with that sort of issue. For something that's planned out on the decade-level, the individual plots aren't that congruent. I mean, at this point if you don't know that all the Marvel films are a cinematic universe, that's on you. It's like 80% the appeal of the things. Civil War was a fun season finale.
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Oct 24, 2016 18:43
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