|
Goatman Sacks posted:gently caress West Virginia and everyone that lives there. Hey gently caress you buddy!! West Virginia is a legitimately beautiful and unique state, and tons of awesome people live there. I've never done so and I wouldn't, but it's really a pretty neat place and when I was there last there actually was quite a bit of awareness that something needs to be done about the coal industry. The problem is that there has to be something to replace it, whether it is new industries or new welfare. Coal workers vote for their immediate interest and that of their family, in other words they vote to keep food on the table. It's hard to blame someone for rejecting something that might be good for the world but bad for their families. Tim Kaine made a pretty good point similar to this one at one of his recent rallies I attended. If coal is to go, then there must be alternatives for employment and the economic survival of places like West Virginia. Many people (not all, obviously) know that the coal companies have been loving them real dirty for a long time, but there have to be alternatives.
|
#
?
Oct 25, 2016 05:35
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 13, 2024 02:24 |
|
|
GalacticAcid posted:I actually would be interested in knowing the three books that most influenced posters' politics, whether ideology or practice. The Hitchhikers Guide To The Galaxy Lord of the Flies Six By Seuss
|
|
#
?
Oct 25, 2016 05:35
|
|
|
citybeatnik posted:My disagreement with you with this is not that you're wrong (yes I think it's silly) but as I've mentioned previously the law in my state is an outright ban of photography within 100 feet of a polling location. Which is different than just snapping a picture of your ballot. I am 99% if someone bothered to challenge that it wouldn't hold up.
|
|
#
?
Oct 25, 2016 05:39
|
|
|
eviltastic posted:A lot of people whose parents paid for their expenses through college? The reason there are so many weirdly prevalent prejudices people have about that area is because so many haven't ever had to do it. I mean, maybe there is somebody out there who has waited tables and can still be a complete poo poo to their server, but I doubt there are many. i dont think there's necessarily a dichotomy between "pampered rich kid" and "my first job was working the fry vat at wendy's". young men with toxic masculine fathers who live in rural or suburban areas might be encouraged to go into real man jobs like farming, construction, forestry, mechanic... there's tons of blue collar entry level jobs that don't involve working in the service sector. you could even go into the army, wash out or do a short term, and come out thinking you've gotten into real work without ever getting that perspective that the service sector provides
|
|
#
?
Oct 25, 2016 05:41
|
|
|
Goatman Sacks posted:gently caress West Virginia and everyone that lives there. This is really stupid.
|
|
#
?
Oct 25, 2016 05:40
|
|
|
Kro-Bar posted:Lawyers are expensive. Especially when you don't have a job. It is an incredibly stupid plan, especially with how much attention is paid to elections also if they were determined to get their employees to vote R or be fired, why wouldn't they just order them to take a photo anyhow? Literally nothing about those laws protects employees from awful employers.
|
|
#
?
Oct 25, 2016 05:41
|
|
|
GalacticAcid posted:I actually would be interested in knowing the three books that most influenced posters' politics, whether ideology or practice. Catch 22 by Joseph Heller The General Theory of Employment, Interest, and Money by Keynes A Theory of Justice by John Rawls (if you've never read Rawls, seriously seriously check him out)
|
|
#
?
Oct 25, 2016 05:43
|
|
|
eviltastic posted:Life experience, particularly interacting with people from dramatically different backgrounds, had such a huge impact that books are kind of a rounding error. Getting out into the real world pulled me way left. Not all people have such positive responses to the kinds of life experience you're talking about, and lots of people actively avoid them! There's also tons of lovely people I went to HS with who I worked service sector poo poo jobs with who post memes making GBS threads on fast food workers. Life experience without examination or education is just as likely to entrench people in regressive viewpoints.
|
|
#
?
Oct 25, 2016 05:44
|
|
|
Where I live (Denmark) you can leave the booth and exchange your ballot in case you fill it out incorrectly or similar. Does that not exist in the us? That seems to solve the problem of photographing the filled out ballot.
|
|
#
?
Oct 25, 2016 05:44
|
|
|
ErIog posted:Not all people have such positive responses to the kinds of life experience you're talking about, and lots of people actively avoid them! yeah - working in service won't necessarily lead to social understanding. a lot of people are just loving dumb and lack introspection or curiosity altogether
|
|
#
?
Oct 25, 2016 05:48
|
|
|
NFX posted:Where I live (Denmark) you can leave the booth and exchange your ballot in case you fill it out incorrectly or similar. Does that not exist in the us? That seems to solve the problem of photographing the filled out ballot. I think it comes down to the individual state in the USA for stuff like this.
|
|
#
?
Oct 25, 2016 05:49
|
|
|
GalacticAcid posted:I actually would be interested in knowing the three books that most influenced posters' politics, whether ideology or practice. Does the Illuminatus! Trilogy count as one book?
|
|
#
?
Oct 25, 2016 05:50
|
|
|
NFX posted:Where I live (Denmark) you can leave the booth and exchange your ballot in case you fill it out incorrectly or similar. Does that not exist in the us? That seems to solve the problem of photographing the filled out ballot. In Ohio you're allowed to get up to two new ballots if you make an error. I think other states aren't as lenient.
|
|
#
?
Oct 25, 2016 05:51
|
|
|
uPen posted:I mean yeah it's ridiculous but the ad did have a photoshopped dramatization of him shaking Trump's hand. I love that being fictionally associated with Trump is grounds for someone to sue for defamation. Play posted:Catch 22 by Joseph Heller I liked Catch-22 until I joined the military and then it stopped being loving funny.  Eugene V. Dabs posted:It is an incredibly stupid plan, especially with how much attention is paid to elections Or just fire them for not quite fitting into the workplace culture or for whatever if its an at will state.
|
|
#
?
Oct 25, 2016 05:52
|
|
|
I have never read an overtly political book.
|
|
#
?
Oct 25, 2016 05:53
|
|
|
Play posted:The General Theory of Employment, Interest, and Money by Keynes If you're going to bother to read Keynes then you should also probably read Smith's Wealth of Nations or Theory of Moral Sentiments. The way regressive economists like Russ Roberts twist Adam Smith is absolutely astounding. Similar to how Jesus would be called a hippie liberal by the right wing if there ever were a second coming, the same would happen to Adam Smith. Right wing economic ideas trace their roots back Darwin moreso than any of the economic greats. ErIog fucked around with this message at 05:57 on Oct 25, 2016 |
|
#
?
Oct 25, 2016 05:54
|
|
|
GalacticAcid posted:I actually would be interested in knowing the three books that most influenced posters' politics, whether ideology or practice. Take This Job and Ship It Breakfast of Champions The Mars trilogy
|
|
#
?
Oct 25, 2016 05:57
|
|
|
ErIog posted:If you're going to bother to read Keynes then you should also probably read Smith's Wealth of Nations or Theory of Moral Sentiments. You're a champ if you can get through those though. Like his buddy Hume Adam Smith was brilliant, verbose, and desperately in need of an editor. Those books would never be published without changes today and for good reason.
|
|
#
?
Oct 25, 2016 05:57
|
|
|
ErIog posted:If you're going to bother to read Keynes then you should also probably read Smith's Wealth of Nations or Theory of Moral Sentiments. Though much like the Bible, Wealth of Nations is very...cumbersome to read. As for me, I can't really trace my philosophy to a single collection of books. Maybe Where the Wild Things Are as an illustration of the failures of Libertarianism (no man is an island, even if he is a god king to a race of monsters).
|
|
#
?
Oct 25, 2016 05:58
|
|
|
ErIog posted:If you're going to bother to read Keynes then you should also probably read Smith's Wealth of Nations or Theory of Moral Sentiments. I was listing the three books that have had an enduring effect on my political and social opinions, not the only three books I've ever read. But of course Adam Smith was one-of-a-kind, a genius who explained something that seems glaringly obvious today but that's primarily because of him. And it is a real shame the lessons that people have taken from him and the way his words have been distorted. He was actually a reasonable and compassionate fellow, and had quite a few radical (for his time) social and economic views. edit: also everyone is correct about the writing, it is drat hard to read. A single sentence can take the same amount of time to read and understand as a whole page of someone else's writing. Play fucked around with this message at 06:04 on Oct 25, 2016 |
|
#
?
Oct 25, 2016 06:00
|
|
|
Ogmius815 posted:You're a champ if you can get through those though. Like his buddy Hume Adam Smith was brilliant, verbose, and desperately in need of an editor. Those books would never be published without changes today and for good reason. I'm with you on Theory of Moral Sentiments, but I feel like Wealth of Nations isn't too bad and it's popular enough to where there's lots of annotated versions and companions. Also, like I said, if they're down for reading Keynes then they'd probably be also down for reading Wealth of Nations despite it not being modern verbiage. Play posted:I was listing the three books that have had an enduring effect on my political and social opinions, not the only three books I've ever read. But of course Adam Smith was one-of-a-kind, a genius who explained something that seems glaringly obvious today but that's primarily because of him. And it is a real shame the lessons that people have taken from him and the way his words have been distorted. He was actually a reasonable and compassionate fellow, and had quite a few radical (for his time) social and economic views. I wasn't making GBS threads on your recommendations. I was just adding to them, and I agree with your post here. ErIog fucked around with this message at 06:05 on Oct 25, 2016 |
|
#
?
Oct 25, 2016 06:01
|
|
|
GalacticAcid posted:I actually would be interested in knowing the three books that most influenced posters' politics, whether ideology or practice. I don't know, I read for pleasure mainly. Dune probably had a big impact, and oddly enough, the 'A Song of Ice and Fire' series, more commonly known for the HBO show Game of Thrones, or perhaps Vonnegut or Hemingway. I've of course read overtly political and economic books, the latest being 'Between the World and Me' or 'What's the Matter with Kansas' but I'd say I was well down the road by that point so it'd be hard to say that they influenced me since I sought them out. A very healthy dose of cynicism for religion and government in those books and in general human constructs. A quote that always sticks out in my mind from God Emperor of Dune is quote:“Scratch a conservative and you find someone who prefers the past over any future. Scratch a liberal and find a closet aristocrat. It’s true! Liberal governments always develop into aristocracies. The bureaucracies betray the true intent of people who form such governments. Right from the first, the little people who formed the governments which promised to equalize the social burdens found themselves suddenly in the hands of bureaucratic aristocracies. Of course, all bureaucracies follow this pattern, but what a hypocrisy to find this even under a communized banner. Boon fucked around with this message at 06:24 on Oct 25, 2016 |
|
#
?
Oct 25, 2016 06:03
|
|
|
GalacticAcid posted:I actually would be interested in knowing the three books that most influenced posters' politics, whether ideology or practice. Combat in the Erogenous Zone by Ingrid Bengis Finding Darwin's God by Kenneth Miller The Drunkard's Walk by Leonard Mlodinow
|
|
#
?
Oct 25, 2016 06:05
|
|
|
Evil Fluffy posted:I've been reading about it elsewhere and it's royally hosed up. The Feds know it is too. Someone started a class action lawsuit in California and the government immediately forgave his outstanding debt and are asking for the class action to be dismissed. since that specific person no longer has reason to sue. Another person was being told to repay because the government couldn't find its copy of their signing papers with the bonus. Honestly, reading about it is a good way to ruin your day because it's just so insanely hosed up. She did.
|
|
#
?
Oct 25, 2016 06:06
|
|
|
GalacticAcid posted:I actually would be interested in knowing the three books that most influenced posters' politics, whether ideology or practice. New Jim Crow/Slavery by Another Name/Medical Apartheid Liberty and Justice for Some / The Divide and I guess Rawls/Singer/Marx, although those are mostly second hand.
|
|
#
?
Oct 25, 2016 06:07
|
|
|
GalacticAcid posted:I actually would be interested in knowing the three books that most influenced posters' politics, whether ideology or practice. Tribal Nation: The Making of Soviet Turkmenistan by Adrienne Edgar Unholy Trinity: The IMF, World Bank and WTO by Richard Peet Kafka's The Trial, I think, was marginally more important to me I'd recommend the Edgar to anyone in who is interested in race, ethnic politics, Central Asia, the USSR or nation-building. I think it's a remarkable piece of scholarship. e:changed my mind on the last book stone cold fucked around with this message at 06:10 on Oct 25, 2016 |
|
#
?
Oct 25, 2016 06:07
|
|
|
Admiral Ray posted:
This makes me wonder about how military service affects people's perception of The Good Soldier Švejk
|
|
#
?
Oct 25, 2016 06:09
|
|
|
War and Peace is cool and good. It also counts for at least 3 books.
|
|
#
?
Oct 25, 2016 06:08
|
|
|
Rated PG-34 posted:War and Peace is cool and good. It also counts for at least 3 books. Do the English versions keep the French?
|
|
#
?
Oct 25, 2016 06:10
|
|
|
stone cold posted:Tribal Nation: The Making of Soviet Turkmenistan by Adrienne Edgar Read The Castle if you liked The trial, holy hell.
|
|
#
?
Oct 25, 2016 06:12
|
|
|
OddObserver posted:Do the English versions keep the French? The translation I read did; luckily, my French isn't that bad.
|
|
#
?
Oct 25, 2016 06:13
|
|
|
OddObserver posted:Do the English versions keep the French? Depends entirely on the translation (and sometimes the editor if a classic translation has the French re-inserted). It's apparently a whole to-do in the Russian literature translation scene.
|
|
#
?
Oct 25, 2016 06:15
|
|
|
Mr. Pool posted:Read The Castle if you liked The trial, holy hell. Oh, I have, I think they're both quite brilliant. I like his short works too-In the Penal Colony is just amazing-but I deeply regret not knowing German. Having to rely on translation is always so off-putting when you just know you're losing the nuance of the original language.
|
|
#
?
Oct 25, 2016 06:18
|
|
|
GalacticAcid posted:I actually would be interested in knowing the three books that most influenced posters' politics, whether ideology or practice. I'll credit 'Lies and the Lying Liars Who Tell Them' with turning me into a solid liberal in high school.
|
|
#
?
Oct 25, 2016 06:23
|
|
|
Play posted:Hey gently caress you buddy!! West Virginia is a legitimately beautiful and unique state, and tons of awesome people live there. I've never done so and I wouldn't, but it's really a pretty neat place and when I was there last there actually was quite a bit of awareness that something needs to be done about the coal industry. The problem is that there has to be something to replace it, whether it is new industries or new welfare. Coal workers vote for their immediate interest and that of their family, in other words they vote to keep food on the table. It's hard to blame someone for rejecting something that might be good for the world but bad for their families. Another West Virginia native here, and it breaks my heart to see how WV's politicians have either been asleep at the wheel or actively looting the state for so long. It isn't just old gunfuckers watching mines wind down; there is a strain of libertarian idiocy in the younger, politically active population who believe if they yell "jobs" loud enough and cut enough regulations that the state's infrastructure will magically heal itself. When Republicans finally got control of the state after decades, they looted the education budget and passed conceal carry laws... and legalized raw milk, and immediately got sick after chugging it in celebration. WV's politicos are so lovely that the Democrats have not conjured anyone as liberal as Robert C. Byrd, who was an actual loving klansman. The democratic nominee and likely future governor, Jim Justice, is another huckster businessman who is a climate change skeptic. And not a one of them have come up with a plan for the state's industry more robust than "let more carpetbaggers frack our water tables to hell" or "hope Chinese businessmen want to invest in sundown towns with guttering schools and 19th-century infrastructure." I love my state but I wish the people in charge of it would stop punching it in the face.
|
|
#
?
Oct 25, 2016 06:24
|
|
|
stone cold posted:Oh, I have, I think they're both quite brilliant. I like his short works too-In the Penal Colony is just amazing-but I deeply regret not knowing German. Having to rely on translation is always so off-putting when you just know you're losing the nuance of the original language. Yeah I took a whole course that was just a study and comparison of The Castle and Thus Spoke Zarathustra, and our Prof tried to fill us in on as much of the German wordplay as he could for us non-speakers. Although he repeatedly begged us to learn German if only to read Kafka's works in the original German, because according to him thats enough of a reason =D
|
|
#
?
Oct 25, 2016 06:29
|
|
|
Built 4 Cuban Linux posted:I'll credit 'Lies and the Lying Liars Who Tell Them' with turning me into a solid liberal in high school. I read "Why Not Me?" a satirical book about comedian and social gadfly Al Franken's fictional run for president. And yet now he is a respected senator and for all I know might actually run one day.... sugoi....
|
|
#
?
Oct 25, 2016 06:32
|
|
|
If this is true, I really want this to be exposed in a big way to the nation before the 8th. https://twitter.com/TheRickWilson/status/790736275355557888 https://twitter.com/TheRickWilson/status/790737025972391936 Charlz Guybon fucked around with this message at 06:37 on Oct 25, 2016 |
|
#
?
Oct 25, 2016 06:33
|
|
|
Did anyone mention The Prince yet? It's still a great primer on realpolitik, and additionally the history of it is quite telling. It had virtually no influence during Machiavelli's time but later on it was condemned by the Catholic church. The argument was the book was evil because Machiavelli spoke poorly of the church, but I think the real reason was that the Church would look very poorly within the framework of realpolitik. Additionally, Machiavelli backed up all his arguments with detailed historical examples. Feel free to ignore anyone who claims The Prince is satire.
|
|
#
?
Oct 25, 2016 06:38
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 13, 2024 02:24 |
|
|
Play posted:Hey gently caress you buddy!! West Virginia is a legitimately beautiful and unique state, and tons of awesome people live there. I've never done so and I wouldn't, but it's really a pretty neat place and when I was there last there actually was quite a bit of awareness that something needs to be done about the coal industry. The problem is that there has to be something to replace it, whether it is new industries or new welfare. Coal workers vote for their immediate interest and that of their family, in other words they vote to keep food on the table. It's hard to blame someone for rejecting something that might be good for the world but bad for their families. I'm tired of being told I'm a latte-sipping, ivory tower elitist liberal rear end in a top hat by the same people who turn right around and say trite poo poo like "yeah there's quite a lot of awareness something needs to be done about the coal industry  How about we do this about the coal industry: we stop buying your coal, and leave you to twist in the wind? Kilroy fucked around with this message at 06:45 on Oct 25, 2016 |
|
#
?
Oct 25, 2016 06:40
|
|