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Supraluminal posted:Yes, let's only help the people we like, people who think like us and talk like us. Real Americans. All those undesirable types can get hosed. Classic progressive ideals on display. Like people who want to live below sea level and insist the government pay a shitload of money on levies and oh also welfare programs because the local economy sucks, oh yeah and also please let me pass laws making gay people illegal and shooting a local cop in self-defense a hate crime... How about we just voluntarily relocate the sane people who want the hell out of there, and who ever is left can take care of their own levies, until they eventually drown? boner confessor posted:please don't air your abusive childhood grievances in this thread masquerading as worthless opinions about the welfare state tia Quite frankly it sounds to me like you're the one with the issues growing up in red America, if you think there is anything there worth saving.
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Oct 25, 2016 07:28
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Snollygoster posted:
Bro. I live in Wisconsin. I feel your pain.  Re: "my boss demands I take a picture of my Trump ballot or I'm fired," I'd argue that's a function of employers being far too powerful in this country and there not being enough strong union representation and labor protection laws and enforcement, more so than a problem of needing to restrict people from being able or post pictures of their ballots to Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram. Edit: we should 100% utilize resources to help poor people who don't vote for left-wing parties. Them not voting for left-wing parties or taking it into their own hands to organize left-wing parties in their State just makes that harder because of how our government is designed. Nobody should be left behind because they vote for assholes and/or are assholes. It's our job to prevent them from hurting others, not to punish them economically for wrongthink. Lightning Knight fucked around with this message at 07:31 on Oct 25, 2016 |
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Oct 25, 2016 07:28
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Kilroy posted:Well then don't make assumptions about where someone must have grown up, like yeah of course people who grow up in red states all loving love it or something or are at least sympathetic to it, or whatever. i didn't make any assumptions about where you grew up? and you grew up in a blue state anyway? you're not making much sense, you're so angry at the existence of republican voters that you've descended into incoherency. i suggest a break from internet
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Oct 25, 2016 07:30
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Nessus posted:Plus you may get the converse, the equivalent of Republicans pulling a HB2 thing on the national level somehow... though as long as the President is a Democrat they probably wouldn't have the stones to try. But after seeing what's happened in state houses I would in no way be shocked to see them ram-rod some kind of "Repeal Social Security" thing on technicalities the next time there's an R president.
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Oct 25, 2016 07:31
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boner confessor posted:i didn't make any assumptions about where you grew up? and you grew up in a blue state anyway? boner confessor posted:lmao that you have zero perspective on what red states are actually like
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Oct 25, 2016 07:31
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go to bed, kilroy
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Oct 25, 2016 07:32
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KOTEX GOD OF BLOOD posted:I've frequently read that this one is bullshit. I'd certainly hope so.
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Oct 25, 2016 07:35
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On Terra Firma posted:If he's already done it then there isn't anything we can do about it. I don't hope he did things, but if he did them then I want them to come to light. Wishing for that isn't ghoulish at all, it's actually a very good thing for the country to prevent someone like that from holding public office. No I agree, if someone's done awful poo poo I would like to see it exposed and prosecuted and for them to face consequences, but I think it's pretty safe to say that even if Donald Trump didn't actually molest kids that he's still not going to be taking office. On the other hand he's already got one suit for underaged rape being brought against so at this point it seems more like a "when" and not an "if." SomeMathGuy posted:You know who I am watching with ghoulish delight? The spineless GOP stoogies who doubled back on condemnations when they thought the heat was off. They deserve to die on this hill. On that I completely agree.
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Oct 25, 2016 07:35
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Kilroy posted:They're going to do that anyway, and any attempts by Democrats to appease them not to would just be interpreted as weakness, and embolden them.  probably knows the score on this front. I do wonder how long that's gonna hold, though. If the Republicans do disintegrate and regenerate somehow, they'd have to have at least some period of not being complete screaming assholes, right?
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Oct 25, 2016 07:36
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Nessus posted:If the Republicans do disintegrate and regenerate somehow, they'd have to have at least some period of not being complete screaming assholes, right? What does your heart tell you?
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Oct 25, 2016 07:37
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Kilroy posted:If you have to spend twice as much in resources to do the same amount of good in a place as you could somewhere else, because of political considerations, then past a certain point if you insist on trying to do the same amount of good in both places then all you're really doing is loving over the people who live "somewhere else" (where you can do more good). Resources are limited and spending them wisely is a good thing. This is a false dilemma. Financial resources are really not the limiting factor for social programs in the US right now. Even though the economy is gradually improving, we could benefit from some profligate deficit spending for a good while yet. Well-designed public assistance programs - like plain ol' cash transfers - are very effective forms of stimulus anyway; we should be ramping them up for everyone who needs them. I'm not even going to get into the idea that we should evacuate rural areas/red states and abandon the holdouts or whatever. It's ridiculous on its face in my opinion, so I don't know how to have a constructive discussion about it. Probably better to shop it around in the rural poverty thread, though I don't think it'll get a good reception there.
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Oct 25, 2016 07:51
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Kilroy where at in eastern Washington?
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Oct 25, 2016 07:53
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Nessus posted:Fortunately, But, with any luck either a new party will emerge that won't listen to them and they'll have to split their vote between the center-right party and the Constitution Party or the Real America Party or whatever bullshit party is the equivalent of the Greens on the hard right in America. It's also possible that the GOPe will hold onto their party, but they'll have to resign themselves to being in the electoral wilderness for the next decade at least, and I don't think they want to do it.
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Oct 25, 2016 07:54
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aside from the casual sociopathy, punishing people who dont vote for you (as well as punishing anyone nearby) is a really, as it turns out, loving awful way to increase your vote share and convince people you're worth voting for very much a making GBS threads on the floor as you're getting kicked out of the party kind of bad, petty idea
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Oct 25, 2016 07:54
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KOTEX GOD OF BLOOD posted:I've frequently read that this one is bullshit. It's highly suspect because it was reported that people other than the alleged victim were pushing this story out into the public. As for this new story about cocaine parties, I'm sure all those here salivating about a witness/victim were also eager to watch Hannity's interview with Rovin about the also totally legitimate stories of Clinton's personal fixer who arranged sex trysts for Hillary with both men and women.
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Oct 25, 2016 07:55
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How reputable is the Daily Beast?
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Oct 25, 2016 07:56
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Man that reminds me, whatever happened to that gay prostitute who said he used to have sex and do cocaine with Obama? That was very scandalous as well!
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Oct 25, 2016 07:57
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BetterToRuleInHell posted:Man that reminds me, whatever happened to that gay prostitute who said he used to have sex and do cocaine with Obama? That was very scandalous as well! That rentboys name? Merrick Garland
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Oct 25, 2016 07:59
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boner confessor posted:aside from the casual sociopathy, punishing people who dont vote for you (as well as punishing anyone nearby) is a really, as it turns out, loving awful way to increase your vote share and convince people you're worth voting for
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Oct 25, 2016 08:01
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they say d&d is full of leftists but nobodys mentioned marx & engels communist manifesto yet? been red since i read it back in highschool during the first clinton administration not sure if i read kerouac's on the road at an impressionable age or its really as great as they say, but its gotta be one or the other if not both and the classic of changes is the only book i know of thats older than the written word`
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Oct 25, 2016 08:02
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Books Locke's Second Treastie on Government Thucydides Peloponnesian Wars The Battle Cry of Freedom by McPherson
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Oct 25, 2016 08:03
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Supraluminal posted:This is a false dilemma. Financial resources are really not the limiting factor for social programs in the US right now. Even though the economy is gradually improving, we could benefit from some profligate deficit spending for a good while yet. Well-designed public assistance programs - like plain ol' cash transfers - are very effective forms of stimulus anyway; we should be ramping them up for everyone who needs them. It's easy to say that since it will never happen, but I would support that, and yeah direct payments are generally the most efficient way to help people out. I wasn't talking about evacuating and my example was not that great, instead just make it really easy for people who don't want to be there, to not be there, and the rest can try to live in whatever conservative Real-America paradise they think would be the result. I would say I don't want to hear them complain when things don't work out, but in fact I really really do want to hear them complain. Islam is the Lite Rock FM posted:Kilroy where at in eastern Washington?
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Oct 25, 2016 08:05
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boner confessor posted:aside from the casual sociopathy, punishing people who dont vote for you (as well as punishing anyone nearby) is a really, as it turns out, loving awful way to increase your vote share and convince people you're worth voting for
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Oct 25, 2016 08:07
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Tom Guycot posted:Trick question, theres no reason to like idaho. Potatoes.
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Oct 25, 2016 08:07
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So Pullman? Are you actually Ryan Leaf?
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Oct 25, 2016 08:08
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I'm that kid who read A People's History and Lies My Teacher Told Me in high school and thought he was woke as gently caress. Ps. I'm actually the worst.
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Oct 25, 2016 08:09
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Themagicalgoat posted:Discipline and Punish Hell yeah Taran Wanderer  Such an underrated book.GalacticAcid posted:I actually would be interested in knowing the three books that most influenced posters' politics, whether ideology or practice. A Wizard of Earthsea, Ursula K. Le Guin Politics and the English Language, George Orwell The Truth (with Jokes), Al Franken
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Oct 25, 2016 08:11
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BetterToRuleInHell posted:It's highly suspect because it was reported that people other than the alleged victim were pushing this story out into the public. You're bad at evaluating sources/evidence. There's enough independent bits of confirmation in that Daily Beast story that it seems plausible based on the fact that there's multiple sources and past reporting connected to the claims. I'm not saying it's 100% confirmed, but that it deserves more investigation. The claims from the guy who was also responsible for Bill Clinton Endorsed By Alien and Hillary Names Bigfoot as Running Mate I think maybe should be taken a little less seriously. These are not the same thing at all. ErIog fucked around with this message at 08:19 on Oct 25, 2016 |
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Oct 25, 2016 08:14
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BetterToRuleInHell posted:As for this new story about cocaine parties, I'm sure all those here salivating about a witness/victim were also eager to watch Hannity's interview with Rovin about the also totally legitimate stories of Clinton's personal fixer who arranged sex trysts for Hillary with both men and women. Islam is the Lite Rock FM posted:So Pullman? Are you actually Ryan Leaf?
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Oct 25, 2016 08:15
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mrbradlymrmartin posted:they say d&d is full of leftists but nobodys mentioned marx & engels communist manifesto yet? been red since i read it back in highschool during the first clinton administration In terms of Communist thought, though I appreciate Marx greatly, I always thought Lenin's 1917 pamphlet Imperialism, the Highest Stage of Capitalism was the more enjoyable read. He's quite good at summing up the work of Hobson and building on it, and I do so like a parsimonious theory! It may be that the translations I've read of Marx vs. Lenin had varying levels of competency, but I've always thought Marx was considerably drier. Plus, I do like how Lenin very nicely plugs the holes in Marx's theories.
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Oct 25, 2016 08:18
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Kilroy posted:If we can muster the political will to do direct cash transfers to individuals without the states loving around with it or having the option to divert it to tax benefits for JOB CREATORS or whatever the gently caress, count me in. Well there's no political will to turn the coastal megalopoli into liberal walled city-states surrounded by 24/7 Hunger Games either. And there are various forms of cash transfer already in effect at the federal level, like the EITC. Pretty sure Clinton has talked about beefing that up, and it actually gets a degree of bipartisan support (or has historically anyway). I said I didn't want to get into the rural depopulation discussion, but I will pop this NYT article in here. Gives a pretty good overview of why geographic sorting of the type you're describing is actually making matters worse, politically speaking. In the super-long-term maybe we can reform our government to rebalance the way we determine representation in Congress and reform (or get rid of) the Electoral College, but sorting is happening now, with the political systems we have today, not the ones we might aspire to.
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Oct 25, 2016 08:21
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I know but it's more entertaining than listening to you blabber on about the liberal version of FYGM.
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Oct 25, 2016 08:21
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Supraluminal posted:Well there's no political will to turn the coastal megalopoli into liberal walled city-states surrounded by 24/7 Hunger Games either. And there are various forms of cash transfer already in effect at the federal level, like the EITC. Pretty sure Clinton has talked about beefing that up, and it actually gets a degree of bipartisan support (or has historically anyway).  gently caress this poo poo.How about blaming the people doing the hating and the antagonizing for once? Is that too unAmerican? lol "this town used to be loving garbage BUT LOOK WE THREW ON A FRESH COAT OF PAINT AND MADE SOME CRAFT BEERS" this is a really bad article friend Islam is the Lite Rock FM posted:I know but it's more entertaining than listening to you blabber on about the liberal version of FYGM. Kilroy fucked around with this message at 08:37 on Oct 25, 2016 |
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Oct 25, 2016 08:33
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Kilroy posted:The title "Go Midwest, Young Hipster" is dumb and not a little infuriating, as though the current state of things is because of us selfish and liberal millennials who insist on living in a place where we're not actively hated and antagonized. "Oh, these poor rural areas are degrading because they've made it absolutely toxic for anyone who isn't over 55 and white to live there - why don't these selfish youngsters try to make them better by living there anyway?" Consider looking beneath the obnoxious surface/framing of the article to the mechanical point it's making. You don't have to like it, but it has political consequences that are loving up our country's ability to govern itself. This isn't a question of assigning blame. At least, I find the question of who to blame to be much less interesting than the question of what the hell do we do to fix the problem? If you just need a shoulder to cry on, yeah, we hear you. It sucks that there are a lot of people with regressive ideas out there, and it's extra-frustrating when they act in ways that we perceive to be self-defeating. I tear my hear out about it sometimes too.
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Oct 25, 2016 08:45
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Na saying "these guys don't like liberals so they get no help transitioning into the present" is liberal FYGM. Guess what? Part of being an American means you don't get to agree with everyone and that's ok. The vast, vast majority of people in this country just want food, a roof, someone to bang, and whatever else supports that. They'll vote the way they think helps that. The GOP has done a mighty fine job convincing people to vote against their interest. You blabbering on about only helping areas that vote your way reeks of the stereotypical liberal urbanite that huffs their own farts. Your mindset offers zero help in fixing problems that arise due to rural poverty. You offer nothing convincing people to vote for themselves and not against.
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Oct 25, 2016 08:49
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ErIog posted:You're bad at evaluating sources/evidence. There's enough independent bits of confirmation in that Daily Beast story that it seems plausible based on the fact that there's multiple sources and past reporting connected to the claims. I'm not saying it's 100% confirmed, but that it deserves more investigation. The claims in the Daily Beast article come from two men who admit to having sex with underage girls. What's their credibility? Any more or less than a person who admits to being the liaison for Hillary's bisexual affairs? Kilroy posted:If the townspeople ignore the boy who cries wolf every day for 30 years, that doesn't mean they also have to ignore the little girl who screams that the inn is burning down when the inn is, in fact, visibly on fire and burning down. The Daily Beast article offers no evidence other than accounts from two men who admit to having sex with underage girls. There is nothing damning in that article.
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Oct 25, 2016 08:51
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Mister Adequate posted:I feel an incredible amount of anger over people like Chick so violently and disgustingly twisting religion in this sort of way. I'm an atheist, but I have a great belief in the value and importance of redemption and that pretty much everyone should, if they wish to attempt it, have the right to try and redeem themselves if circumstances allow it. It isn't up to me to dictate what that takes for any given individual, but I can surely say it's something that takes a huge amount of reflection, effort, and hard work. It isn't something that everyone gets a chance at, and even if you do it, not everyone will forgive you, and that is part of it all. My dad molested me when I was a kid and I doubt I could have ever forgiven him; but had he not drank himself to death, I could not in good conscience say he shouldn't have been allowed to try to appreciate the depths of what he did, and to try and find some way to redeem himself and make up for it. I think this is a good post that should get more attention.
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Oct 25, 2016 08:53
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vorebane posted:I think this is a good post that should get more attention. Hey, I'd like to tell you about this thing called sola fide... 
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Oct 25, 2016 09:07
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Islam is the Lite Rock FM posted:Na saying "these guys don't like liberals so they get no help transitioning into the present" is liberal FYGM. I mean I know I came on pretty strong with the hot takes, but for all the talk of "it's a tough, complex issue" some of you are really trying your hardest to make it sound stupidly easy and simple. And by the way in light of your later posts it's now really weird to me that you wanted to know where I'm from in WA. Like, was it an attempt to let me know that I'm not from a really deep-red-enough part of the state (I am) and should therefore shut my mouth?
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Oct 25, 2016 09:07
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No one else for Robert Tressell's The ragged trousered philanthropists?
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Oct 25, 2016 09:08
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