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Psion posted:My hope is that they add enough infamies such that your bonuses will let you go from 0-100 in a single 1D jewelry store. I did the work an assuming every level above 25 is another 10% xp bonus, if you let the alarm sound for max xp, with a 4-people crew all using team boosts, after finding all gage packages, and a 25% stealth bonus, you'd only need to be Infamy MDXL. 23336413 = 8000 * 15 * (1 + 0.45 + (2.05+(0.1*x)) + 0.3 + 0.05 + 0.24) * 1.25 ? e: what a terrible way to start a page
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Oct 25, 2016 19:56
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What a fantastic way to start a new page, you mean. Infamy 1540, here we come.
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Oct 25, 2016 20:02
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shut up blegum posted:Lol just did infamy and now I'm waiting for all the unlocks after 1 Ukrainian job. Like 30 levels worth of unlocks after 1 heist. And thus the lesson is learned - let someone else host your first post-infamy heist. Psion posted:More skillpoints could be an approach to soften 1D, but it'd also soften every other difficulty. I'm not sure it would. (I agree with the rest of your statement, mind, just not that part.) Extra skill points might make it easier to squeeze in QoL things on a super-tight 1D build, but the effect isn't going to be that huge until you get to wild levels (ie being able to max out 5-6 trees). Pubstove cheaters who just give themselves aced everything still die just as fast and only kill marginally quicker than someone who's using a good 120 point build.
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Oct 25, 2016 20:21
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Tempest_56 posted:And thus the lesson is learned - let someone else host your first post-infamy heist. What? No, I meant I completed Ukrainian job and gained so much exp that it took forever for the game to tell me which guns etc I unlocked.
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Oct 25, 2016 20:24
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shut up blegum posted:What? No, I meant I completed Ukrainian job and gained so much exp that it took forever for the game to tell me which guns etc I unlocked. And if someone else would have hosted it could have been skipped instead of forcing you to wait.
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Oct 25, 2016 20:26
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Yeah, you only need to sit at the reward screen for as long as it takes for the host's XP and cash to be counted up. If someone at a high level had hosted the game they could have slammed enter and forced the lobby to the card drop screen, allowing you to skip all those unlock messages. Tapping spacebar helps but you have to do it for every separate count. For example, if you have gained a few levels you will need to tap once for every level. You will need one tap for every subcategory of cash that's counted. Dr Cheeto fucked around with this message at 20:38 on Oct 25, 2016 |
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Oct 25, 2016 20:33
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Tempest_56 posted:And thus the lesson is learned - let someone else host your first post-infamy heist. We literally do not need more skill points. Part of why the rebalance is so hosed is because the skills update, aside from introducing variety, made it really easy to take extremely powerful skills like Swan Song, Berserker, Specialized Killing etc without really sacrificing anything so now we get a game where things have so much HP you need to take 3 trees worth of damage boosts to feel useful unless you shell out cash for a gimmick DLC.
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Oct 25, 2016 20:36
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Explosionface posted:And if someone else would have hosted it could have been skipped instead of forcing you to wait. Ah OK, didn't know that. Will think about this next time 
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Oct 25, 2016 20:40
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Or you could be like me and host then just exit to main menu the moment the XP count begins because who cares, they're pubs, you can find three more.
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Oct 25, 2016 20:52
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shut up blegum posted:Ah OK, didn't know that. Will think about this next time Right. Obviously not a big deal, just a convenience thing if you don't want to wait. I usually just wait it out because I'm typically alone during my first few post-infamy heists.
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Oct 25, 2016 21:22
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Psion posted:Yeah, you might've missed it but shields have 75% DR against snipers and slugs - yes, the two things which penetrate them - and with the new huge shield HP pools, it really makes things bad. The DR isn't new, but interacting with 4x the HP sure is. Bring HE, not slugs.
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Oct 25, 2016 21:58
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Explosionface posted:Right. Obviously not a big deal, just a convenience thing if you don't want to wait. I usually just wait it out because I'm typically alone during my first few post-infamy heists. Also, if you quit out of the game without picking a card (or crash out), do not despair. You get whatever you would have gotten from the card screen the moment you finish the heist. The card picking screen is just smoke and mirrors.
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Oct 25, 2016 22:53
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We have some new halloween achievements. The question I have at this point is whether they're related to the re-release of No Mercy, or to a new, separate safehouse halloween map (OVK have confirmed the old safehouse nightmare will remain and will not be changed).
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Oct 25, 2016 22:54
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UnknownMercenary posted:We literally do not need more skill points. Part of why the rebalance is so hosed is because the skills update, aside from introducing variety, made it really easy to take extremely powerful skills like Swan Song, Berserker, Specialized Killing etc without really sacrificing anything so now we get a game where things have so much HP you need to take 3 trees worth of damage boosts to feel useful unless you shell out cash for a gimmick DLC. Oh, I don't think we need more for a second. But at this point I can go Anarchist+ICTV+Specalized Killing+Frenzy+weapon tree of choice and depending on that weapon tree still get Inspire (or drat close to it). Is it really going to change the lower difficulties significantly if I also grab drill skills or jokers? I'm already a near invincible wall of beef that one-hits anything besides a taser or dozer. A handful of skill points (by Psion's numbers you'd be around infamy 150 before you'd be able to ace a top-tier skill or infamy 75-100 just to get the drill skills, so we're talking hundreds of hours of gameplay here) aren't going to have a serious impact at that point. Any 'softening' is going to be pretty minor compared to more important poo poo like map knowledge or aiming skill.
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Oct 25, 2016 23:43
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Uh, no, not by my numbers. If you thought I was approving of 1/2 extra skillpoints every 25 infamies or whatever, let me be clear: hell no. I didn't dispute Crabtree's progression because I figured it was more important to discuss the end-state he came up with - that is, a total of 128 skillpoints, so, let me clarify that. I would argue immediately that it's poo poo balance to demand a player infamy a couple dozen times in order to effectively compete on 1D. I can buy demanding infamy up to V, due to how that system has worked since the original infamy update, but no more than that. But quite simply: Fixing the root problem is the only way to go forward, the root problem is not having 120 skillpoints - remember the skill rebalance was originally only going to give us 104.  I've seen a tremendous number of absolutely lovely - I mean immensely, disturbingly lovely ideas - on how to make 1D "harder" that aren't cops being gigantic walls of HP and flat damage per shot and that's not going to be easy for Overkill to navigate, but they did it with the skill rebalance so I think they can do it here. Fix the problems introduced with this dumb scaling, add fun and well thought out challenges to raise the difficulty to whatever bar it needs to be raised to. like medics. medics are a really good special overall. more things like that. less things like stupid hitpoint values and 75% DR to anything, ever. Psion fucked around with this message at 23:59 on Oct 25, 2016 |
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Oct 25, 2016 23:46
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Psion posted:Uh, no, not by my numbers. If you thought I was approving of 1/2 extra skillpoints every 25 infamies or whatever, let me be clear: hell no. I didn't dispute Crabtree's progression because I figured it was more important to discuss the end-state he came up with - that is, a total of 128 skillpoints, so, let me clarify that. If you can't make enemies bullet sponges (which is a really lovely way of increasing the difficulty), or increasing accuracy/damage (which makes the difficulty just feel bullshit and arbitrary, after a point), then the one of the only things you have left is to increase the time spent on the map by adding additional challenges, which is harder to do than just make enemies "more tougher." The other is limit player resources, so cops don't drop bullet boxes? All consumables are 50% less effective? What additional levers of game play to we have left to tweak? Less skill points? And I'm not just throwing up my hands and saying it's impossible - adding challenge to a game is a legitimately interesting convergence of a number of factors, which at the end of the day, has to remain fun to the end user.
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Oct 26, 2016 00:12
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I expected health buffs across the board but nowhere to this amount. They could stand to reduce the health. An idea that was floated to me was to have softer total health increases as difficulty scales up, but make headshots to kill the same, and that's probably the best idea I've heard. I've also seen suggestions to reduce cop damage and/or accuracy, while also reducing the damage grace period as a way to buff cops. I'm also not terribly happy with the Bulldozer changes. I don't mind them running but it's way too erratic, and I'd at least like to be able to stun them when I break the faceplates. They come too often in much greater numbers than in PD:TH to just make them work entirely like they did like PD:TH dozers.
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Oct 26, 2016 00:15
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Psion posted:I've seen a tremendous number of absolutely lovely - I mean immensely, disturbingly lovely ideas - on how to make 1D "harder" that aren't cops being gigantic walls of HP and flat damage per shot and that's not going to be easy for Overkill to navigate, but they did it with the skill rebalance so I think they can do it here. Fix the problems introduced with this dumb scaling, add fun and well thought out challenges to raise the difficulty to whatever bar it needs to be raised to. UnknownMercenary posted:I expected health buffs across the board but nowhere to this amount. They could stand to reduce the health. An idea that was floated to me was to have softer total health increases as difficulty scales up, but make headshots to kill the same, and that's probably the best idea I've heard. I'd love to hear some more about this- I think we're on the same page regarding enemy health and headshots. 1D enemies should have somewhat more health so that accuracy and ammo conservation are more of an issue, but not so much more that weaponsets are massively restricted. I'm not sure that I'm a fan of just reducing enemy damage and accuracy so much as fixing it so it works properly. Right now normal Zeal enemies on 1D have the same damage at all ranges up to 60m, with almost no accuracy falloff, which is just plain nuts. Other 1D damage and accuracy may be similarly borked-the guy who found this stuff is going to try and get the other units tonight. Reducing the damage grace period wouldn't really help or hinder things- a part of the problem is that the damage grace permits repeated damage at the same value. Given that these zeal enemies do the same damage at all practical ranges...well, you can see the effect. On Bulldozers: I'm a fan of both running and a lack of stun (if there were an enemy that should be stun-resistant, it's them). I'd love to hear more about what you mean by their running being erratic. For me the big problem with them now is that spawn changes have really messed with their role in the game. Non-scripted Bulldozers exclusively spawn in pairs, and that group seems to spawn too often (the full spawngroup list hasn't been identified yet, but it looks like there are probably multiple "Spawn two dozers" entries, along with several "4 shields" entries). It's a really bizzare choice of an enemy that, I agree, should be relatively uncommon and a big deal. On the other hand, I would note that even in PD:TH, the high level strat for bulldozers was to burn them down with high damage immediately, so I'm not sure how different that aspect of their role really is. I'd like to hear some of these lovely 1D difficulty increase ideas  Also, from coyote: 
Discendo Vox fucked around with this message at 00:52 on Oct 26, 2016 |
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Oct 26, 2016 00:50
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Psion posted:Uh, no, not by my numbers. If you thought I was approving of 1/2 extra skillpoints every 25 infamies or whatever, let me be clear: hell no. I didn't dispute Crabtree's progression because I figured it was more important to discuss the end-state he came up with - that is, a total of 128 skillpoints, so, let me clarify that. Okay, my bad, I was totally misreading what you were saying then, but I think you're missing my point a little too. Changing the number of skill points available is a bad idea, for the reasons folks have cited and then some. My contention is merely that a few more points isn't going to make a huge difference in most situations - looking at skill points isn't the issue for balance here. Drewjitsu posted:The other is limit player resources, so cops don't drop bullet boxes? All consumables are 50% less effective? What additional levers of game play to we have left to tweak? Less skill points? This is the way I'd go. Overkill already has by giving players a single down. Cops vs. heisters is an attrition battle in many ways - even a group of specials isn't that strong against players. But there's infinite cops, and player resources are limited. Halve the charges you get out of deployables, halve the value of ammo pickups, lengthen armor regen time. Suddenly the heisters have to be much more aware of ammo and health and we get situations where teams are scraping their way out. Start out strong, but at the end you're scrambling to the van with no deployables left, half the team black & white and twenty bullets between everyone. Add in a few enemy ability tweaks (cops already spawn flashbangs, let 'em spawn molotov fire patches or HE grenades too; increase firing rate/target acquisition speed), some mild HP/damage buffs (1D being 2x or 3x Overkill rather than 4x or 5x) and we'd be on target for some hard poo poo without the current problems.
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Oct 26, 2016 00:52
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I would just like to say that Medics are Fun and Good but they need to stop reviving people through walls or while doing other animations like climbing, because it is kind of dumb in the same way long-range tasers are.
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Oct 26, 2016 00:54
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Tempest_56 posted:Add in a few enemy ability tweaks (cops already spawn flashbangs, let 'em spawn molotov fire patches or HE grenades too; increase firing rate/target acquisition speed), some mild HP/damage buffs (1D being 2x or 3x Overkill rather than 4x or 5x) and we'd be on target for some hard poo poo without the current problems. Ironically, the big revamp of enemy squad "tactics" that came with 1D had only one major effect; only a small set of spawn groups can use flashbangs or smoke grenades. Coupled with the AI pathing/enemy limit problems that have made most of the other tactics changes irrelevant, the net effect is players actually see way, way fewer flash or smoke grenades.
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Oct 26, 2016 00:54
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For any console players here, there is a way to speed up the xp circle. Tap Y button on Xbox and I would guess triangle on PS4 when the circle starts filling up.
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Oct 26, 2016 01:21
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swims posted:For any console players here, there is a way to speed up the xp circle. Tap Y button on Xbox and I would guess triangle on PS4 when the circle starts filling up. pc players can do the same thing by holding space
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Oct 26, 2016 01:33
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Psion posted:More skillpoints could be an approach to soften 1D, but it'd also soften every other difficulty. I'd rather see them back down from effectively locking you into very specific skillsets so you had more of your current 120 to allocate outside of essentials rather than giving you 128. Change the flat damage of Zeal enemies, redo the headshot and health multipliers to be less absurd, stop spawning 10 shields at all times - there's any number of things they could do to soften 1D and/or reduce the stark gap between Overkill and Mayhem that aren't just throwing more skills at you. Personally I think that second one - reducing that gap - is more important, really. To be honest, if you're getting the hang of 1D even now, the lower difficulties are already too easy for you. This has been the case with old school deathwish and even general OVERKILL difficulties making the lower ones pointless outside of learning a heist. But I'm not going to disagree with you that extra points aren't the best solution or reward for more infamy, but at the same time, if its just a few extra points to squeeze in a few more QoL or tasty skills for a build, it wouldn't be the worst thing either. But as better paths that there are to take in adjusting 1D into an actually well crafted difficulty like Deathwish, I was also asking the likelihood of Jules and co. would implement it as a quick fix like appeasement - much as that is asking anyone to take out their Swedish Crystal Balls and divine the next update. Crabtree fucked around with this message at 01:48 on Oct 26, 2016 |
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Oct 26, 2016 01:40
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Discendo Vox posted:On Bulldozers: I'm a fan of both running and a lack of stun (if there were an enemy that should be stun-resistant, it's them). I'd love to hear more about what you mean by their running being erratic. For me the big problem with them now is that spawn changes have really messed with their role in the game. Non-scripted Bulldozers exclusively spawn in pairs, and that group seems to spawn too often (the full spawngroup list hasn't been identified yet, but it looks like there are probably multiple "Spawn two dozers" entries, along with several "4 shields" entries). It's a really bizzare choice of an enemy that, I agree, should be relatively uncommon and a big deal. On the other hand, I would note that even in PD:TH, the high level strat for bulldozers was to burn them down with high damage immediately, so I'm not sure how different that aspect of their role really is. There's a lot of stops and starts to their movement that looks totally silly. They don't appear to use their speed to close the distance, sometimes they will just stand still far away while you have their aggro, or they will run erratically across map geometry while trying to path to you instead of beelining towards you. They also don't slow down their movement; sometimes they'll just speed away or around you and it looks really loving dumb. When it works properly it's loving terrifying; nothing is scarier than a Saiga dozer running at you at full speed firing his shotgun and downing 2 of your teammates. A lot of my gripes with bulldozers at the moment would probably be fixed with a health adjustment to everything else.
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Oct 26, 2016 02:08
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Crabtree posted:I was also asking the likelihood of Jules and co. would implement it as a quick fix like appeasement - much as that is asking anyone to take out their Swedish Crystal Balls and divine the next update. If they add more skillpoints as a quick fix, it's staying forever - I think it highly unlikely they could walk that back. They couldn't even walk back the literally brand new and completely different skilltrees to 104. so, as far as quick fixes go, it's pretty low on my list because if it isn't part of a reasoned, permanent solution - and by definition an appeasement quick fix isn't - then it's a bad one. to answer your question specifically I consider it fairly unlikely. I'm in no way a fan of Jules' balancing logic, because I think he started from a bad premise and made worse choices, but I don't think he's unaware of what a skillpoint tweak would be. then again you never know  if this were an early access title where we expected routine balance tweaks, that's one thing, but I'm a little tired of them tossing the game balance out the window once a year, so consider me the grumpy old man yelling at Almir to get off my lawn, I guess Psion fucked around with this message at 02:20 on Oct 26, 2016 |
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Oct 26, 2016 02:15
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https://twitter.com/RafaCornejo77/status/791036292540817408
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Oct 26, 2016 02:19
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Tempest_56 posted:Cops vs. heisters is an attrition battle in many ways - even a group of specials isn't that strong against players. But there's infinite cops, and player resources are limited. Halve the charges you get out of deployables, halve the value of ammo pickups, lengthen armor regen time. Suddenly the heisters have to be much more aware of ammo and health and we get situations where teams are scraping their way out. Start out strong, but at the end you're scrambling to the van with no deployables left, half the team black & white and twenty bullets between everyone. Or you just game the system and trade teammates from custody each assault break. Wow, what an exciting new meta!
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Oct 26, 2016 02:54
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Psion posted:If they add more skillpoints as a quick fix, it's staying forever - I think it highly unlikely they could walk that back. They couldn't even walk back the literally brand new and completely different skilltrees to 104. so, as far as quick fixes go, it's pretty low on my list because if it isn't part of a reasoned, permanent solution - and by definition an appeasement quick fix isn't - then it's a bad one. to answer your question specifically I consider it fairly unlikely. I'm in no way a fan of Jules' balancing logic, because I think he started from a bad premise and made worse choices, but I don't think he's unaware of what a skillpoint tweak would be. then again you never know Its okay, man. At least we aren't in KF2's situation where it still feels like they're just going to be wandering the desert of dumb ideas for the rest of the game's life. What do have is developers that are apparently deathly afraid of the idea of meta and will do everything they can think of to combat it, despite this always coming about as people learn and understand how a game actually works.
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Oct 26, 2016 03:10
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LuciferMorningstar posted:Or you just game the system and trade teammates from custody each assault break. Wow, what an exciting new meta! That's a hellishly risky meta and you know it. Mis-time things and you're spending ~10m down a player or two, which is really goddamn tough on top difficulties. (I'm sure you're going to come back and claim to solo entire 1D assault waves, in which case congrats in being the top 0.01% of players.) Besides, if that becomes A Thing for cheating the system, it's pretty trivial to just take away the positive benefits (like the ammo refill) of getting out of custody. Or make 1 Down truly one down and disable trading. I mean, this is all design fanfiction and so pointless but that 'exciting new meta' is both high risk and easily nerfed.
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Oct 26, 2016 03:24
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Tempest_56 posted:That's a hellishly risky meta and you know it. Mis-time things and you're spending ~10m down a player or two, which is really goddamn tough on top difficulties. (I'm sure you're going to come back and claim to solo entire 1D assault waves, in which case congrats in being the top 0.01% of players.) Well, I guess it depends on how else you're balancing top difficulties. My assumption is that you're reducing cop health and damage by some amount and replacing that with lower resources, in which case being down a player or two is less significant. You're also neglecting to consider weapons like the crossbow and javelins, for which you can recover ammo. I'm not saying this wouldn't work, mind you. I just don't see how it necessarily generates outcomes that are better than the status quo. I also don't understand how this allows you to balance around heists of various length. I probably don't care much about resource reductions on a short heist like Biker 2, but longer heists would probably be more difficult. Maybe that's a desirable outcome, as one might think that longer heists should be harder.
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Oct 26, 2016 03:52
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To be honest having only one down with the original death wish numbers would have been enough of a difficulty increase, especially factoring in running dozers and medics. And maybe something else like removing hit indicators I don't know. Remember that Death Wish wasn't a well designed difficulty either, and only became managable because of new tools like health regen, poison, tasers, and sniper rifles.
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Oct 26, 2016 04:32
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Coolguye posted:pc players can do the same thing by holding space Raising awareness for pc players but yes this is why it was my mission to find it on xbox
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Oct 26, 2016 05:40
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I hardly ever play non-stealth 1D, but here is my opinion anyway Last night I played a really fun game of OVK Rats. Me + 3 pubbies were cooking and running out of ammo, it was very frantic, everybody had only a couple of bullets left. We were all holed up upstairs, trying to kill whatever what was coming at us. Sometimes we'd dash downstairs and try to pick up some extra bullets, but I melee'd a ton of guys just because I couldn't shoot them anymore. By the time we got to the van with our bags (during an assault, because there was literally no ammo left) it really felt great. It felt like we'd just made it and it was loads of fun.
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Oct 26, 2016 07:36
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i only have about 5 trophies left for my safehouse and i'm really sad because i'm only at 20/36 upgrades at least give me enough to finish off the main floor so i look maximum swank during defenses, game  in somewhat related news, i am basically assuredly going to try to find a way to cheat Robbedacop out because I have fewer than 10k kills and i'm rapidly running out of other things to do aside from Ultimate Heister and that one. when I finish Ultimate Heister, Robbedacop is getting cheated. gently caress grinding kills, this isn't loving everquest. Coolguye fucked around with this message at 08:30 on Oct 26, 2016 |
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Oct 26, 2016 08:26
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If Trump played Payday 2, who would be his heister of choice?
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Oct 26, 2016 08:34
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he would refuse to play unless they put him into the game
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Oct 26, 2016 08:35
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trump tried to heist the white house but he accidentally set the difficulty to one down
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Oct 26, 2016 08:38
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Coolguye posted:in somewhat related news, i am basically assuredly going to try to find a way to cheat Robbedacop out because I have fewer than 10k kills and i'm rapidly running out of other things to do aside from Ultimate Heister and that one. when I finish Ultimate Heister, Robbedacop is getting cheated. gently caress grinding kills, this isn't loving everquest. You could just not get the achievement
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Oct 26, 2016 08:39
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| # ? May 30, 2024 19:44 |
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 Goons critique my build. I'm running a shotgun build built around Aced Frenzy/Berserker, conceal for Sneaky Bastard/Low Blow, and Overkill + Specialized Killing Aced for more damage with the Anarchist perk deck. This works very well for Mayhem and Death Wish but could it be a viable build for One Down? Or should I just go medieval on the Zeals? Da build: http://pd2skills.com/#/v3/mACEf:eaDEFLr:ggJKLnOPr:fMOPr:ibcdea::w40-27-5-2-28-12:s32-34-15-43-1-6-10-38:a3 A previous thing I had was forgoing the Specialized Killing skill and acing Bullseye and Nine Lives for extra survival.
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Oct 26, 2016 08:45
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