|
"All publicity is good publicity" was Trump's philosophy long before The Apprentice and his 2016 campaign. "Frontline" kind of showed the evolution of this for those who aren't that familiar with his history when it didn't collide with mainstream politics. Trump is both a troll who knows what he's doing and a thin-skinned idiot who can also be trolled.
|
#
?
Oct 24, 2016 18:07
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 15, 2024 21:49 |
|
|
EL BROMANCE posted:He's either a smart guy pretending to be dumb, or a dumb guy pretending to be smart but he rides the line so hard it's honestly hard to tell. He truly is the American Boris.
|
|
#
?
Oct 24, 2016 18:24
|
|
|
Echo Chamber posted:Trump is both a troll who knows what he's doing and a thin-skinned idiot who can also be trolled. This is definitely true. If you look at his performance during each debate as a function of time, he always starts off by being on message, and manages to stay there a little longer each time (the first 30 minutes of the last debate was actually boring and full of policy), but then Hillary does what she always does which is criticize some aspect of his business or his monetary worth or just whatever she can say to try to bruise his ego, and he will completely fly off the handle and never be able to regain his composure. There is no way at all that is intentional. He just cannot help himself because he is so thin-skinned he cannot take any criticism. As for the main drug story, I actually experienced this from a doctor just the other day. I went to the ER early in the morning in pretty severe pain. They offered to put me on a morphine drip right away, but I find opioids make me nauseated and I new I'd be moved around a lot for tests so I refused. I spent the day with them running a million tests, and when they said it'd be probably 2-3 hours for the CT results to get back I figured the pain was bad enough that they could give me the painkillers and I could sleep most of the wait. When the surgeon finally came to talk to me he asked about my pain and I said that it was bad before but wasn't so bad in that moment because of the painkillers he gave me this look and rolled his eyes, then basically grilled me saying that I shouldn't have come into the ER because of pain or that my pain wasn't real or wasn't bad enough to come in. Completely ignoring that I'd been in the ER for about 7 hours before I let them give me anything. But then he gave me a morphine prescription (along with an anti-constipation prescription) and sent me on my way without a diagnosis. So you think I'm scamming drugs but also you're going to give me those drugs? I know it's a short segment, but I had wished he talked about how jaded doctors can be too and that it hurts everyone that people are addicted to painkillers, because it makes people without an addiction seem like they're just trying to get a fix.
|
|
#
?
Oct 24, 2016 18:35
|
|
|
tentish klown posted:He truly is the American Boris. The wonderful thing about Boris is he is also the American Boris as he was born in NY. He could run for president!
|
|
#
?
Oct 24, 2016 18:44
|
|
|
Ausmund posted:John doesn't seem to grasp that one of Trump's biggest strengths is not giving a gently caress about how the media perceives him(which in turn exposes how superficial and pointless it all is anyway), as evident on his segment on how he "bombed" at the charity dinner. Everything Trump does is completely intentional. He didn't make those comments at the dinner hoping to get laughs at all, it was to show his supporters how relentless he is. A lot of big time comedy talk shows like the Weekly Show refuse to acknowledge this. You couldn't be more wrong, Donald Trump would suck the dick of everyone in this thread to have the crowd at the dinner like him. That is the royalty of New York, the single defining goal of his life is to be accepted by those folks and accepted as one of them. The real money, the actual businessmen and elite. And they hate him because he's a crass loser. Nothing in his life means more than that. Nothing makes him angrier than being reminded he doesn't belong among them, being belittled by those in power. e: Also you have to be a loving moron to think Trump might be right. He took a whole lot of money and spent years turning it into much less money by being a loud, obnoxious gently caress up. Like if he took that money and quietly invested it in some boring options and then went off and just gardened around his yard for the rest of his life, he would be happier and worth more money. And the world would be a better place. Donald Trump is a failure on every conceivable level. Mulva fucked around with this message at 19:06 on Oct 24, 2016 |
|
#
?
Oct 24, 2016 18:52
|
|
|
Ausmund posted:No, he's a scumbag. I'm saying he's smart enough to know how to strategically handle it and get people on his side. He's an advertising mastermind. The whole pussy grab thing was a legit gently caress up, that's why he apologised for it... then strategically started blaming Clinton, which you're not "supposed" to do, which is exactly why he did it, to show that he has no shame and he can handle any poo poo that's thrown at him. And it works. quote:It's outside of all of that. Long ago, Trump figured out that empathy and human decency get you no where in life. In a bad situation? Say something to make it even worse, then, at least your still the one in control. Just own it, gently caress it. And if you stick with it, no matter what anyone tells you, it works. All publicity is good publicity. Crazy enough to work. People who say he's a good showman are kind of missing the point. He's a good freakshow. He says things that get a rise out of people for attention, and their attention is its own reward. It makes him feel good, and therefore a winner. The idea that discarding empathy and decency get you ahead is bullshit. He got ahead because he had a rich father and every advantage he could possibly have. His gratuitous lack of empathy didn't get him success, it got him attention, which he would feel is the same thing, but demonstrably is not. His political success is not a product of him being better in any meaningful respect, it's a symptom of the cancerous degradation of the Republican party. Trump didn't create his supporters with his brutal clear sighted cruelty. He was elevated by them. They already existed, possibly riled up by the Republicans for decades, but mainly because they represent a real human reaction to perceived insecurity. His addiction to attention was only beneficial in the political atmosphere that has defined itself by undermining the idea of compassion and mutual responsibility in order to cater to these people as they lose their perceived privilege. That atmosphere does not yet pervade the whole country, and so his ridiculous lack of decorum is still a liability. And because he's not right, and not smart, he's failing badly in this atmosphere where decency still matters. But we need to call it out, loudly and constantly, because the decorum of our political culture matters, and its collapse has consequences as we can see in the Republican party. And the Philippines, for that matter. Saying, "Maybe Trump is objectively right and everything is terrible," is wrong, dumb, and a self fulfilling prophecy if it's accepted.
|
|
#
?
Oct 24, 2016 19:01
|
|
|
I think people underestimate Trump enough that he could easily win and shatter everyone's worldview.Eiba posted:But we need to call it out, loudly and constantly, because the decorum of our political culture matters, and its collapse has consequences as we can see in the Republican party. And the Philippines, for that matter.
|
|
#
?
Oct 24, 2016 19:58
|
|
|
He's down 7-9 points, and Clinton has a better chance of winning Texas than Trump has of winning the election.
|
|
#
?
Oct 24, 2016 20:03
|
|
|
Scorchy posted:He's down 7-9 points, and Clinton has a better chance of winning Texas than Trump has of winning the election. Well you see, he has about as much chance of winning as a kicker has of missing a chip shot field goal, and since that happened twice last night, shattering the worldview that the NFC West is good, Trump will win.
|
|
#
?
Oct 24, 2016 20:19
|
|
|
Ausmund posted:I think people underestimate Trump enough that he could easily win and shatter everyone's worldview. Nah. quote:This has done nothing but fuel his campaign and give him all the coverage and exposure he's wanted. It's not working and it's time people start realizing it. He's had to take his name off his hotels because he's destroyed his branding. Like this isn't even a good troll because there's nothing in any aspect of reality that looks good for Donald Trump.
|
|
#
?
Oct 24, 2016 21:03
|
|
|
Ausmund posted:I think people underestimate Trump enough that he could easily win and shatter everyone's worldview. No, it has not fueled his campaign. When people treated it like a sideshow and a joke, when all his competitors were backstabbing each other because he couldn't possibly win, it fueled his primary campaign. When people took him seriously, his numbers tanked. The only reason he had any shot at anything in the general is that Clinton is (for a whole different set of reasons) also historically disliked. And even as she's hit with a whole mess of scandals and revelations, nothing can stop the nosedive in Trump's poll numbers. I don't know if apocalyptic nihilism is a more satisfying explanation to you on principle, or if you're just trolling, but what you're describing does not reflect what is clearly happening. And I mean, what do you suggest? Accept that Trump is right, nothing matters, and cruelty, selfishness, and petty tribal loyalties are all that drive us? Accept his behavior as natural and fine and go about our business as if he were any other candidate? Surely if we do that Trump will be vanquished...
|
|
#
?
Oct 24, 2016 21:09
|
|
|
Eiba posted:And I mean, what do you suggest? Accept that Trump is right, nothing matters, and cruelty, selfishness, and petty tribal loyalties are all that drive us? Accept his behavior as natural and fine and go about our business as if he were any other candidate? Surely if we do that Trump will be vanquished... Like, a year ago, I would agree with you. I thought he was a joke. But it's really not looking that way anymore.
|
|
#
?
Oct 24, 2016 21:39
|
|
|
Snowglobe of Doom posted:On the one hand I can't bring myself to believe that the poo poo Trump says is real and not some crazy made up persona designed to whip the libertarians/hard right into a frenzy which means it has to be fake but on the other hand I also can't believe that anyone could make up this stuff which means it has to be genuine. I genuinely can't tell what the gently caress is going on. Grinning Goblin posted:I have no idea what was screaming in the studio audience this week, but it sounded like some sort of bird, or maybe a monkey. Basically something you would hear in a tropical rainforest if it was trying to ward off some predator or potential rival for mating. coyo7e fucked around with this message at 22:39 on Oct 24, 2016 |
|
#
?
Oct 24, 2016 22:36
|
|
|
coyo7e posted:Hey look, we've got an MRA posting itt Why are you assuming the loud laugher was a woman? What if it was just Rich Evans? Now who's the sexist? 
|
|
#
?
Oct 24, 2016 23:43
|
|
|
Ausmund posted:I mean, I don't want it to be. But, like, what if it is? What if it turns out to be true? People are so afraid of even looking like they defend him they won't attempt to pinpoint an underlying cause that doesn't have anything to do with attacking his character. The rationale seems to be, "Trump is such a bad person! He can't be the president! He just can't!" Are you Scott Adams? You sound like Scott Adams. Protip: If someone ever has to ask you "Are you Scott Adams" you need to take a look at yourself, my man
|
|
#
?
Oct 25, 2016 02:28
|
|
|
What about if you're Adam Scott? Then you're dreamy and I love you
|
|
#
?
Oct 25, 2016 02:38
|
|
|
END ME SCOOB posted:Are you Scott Adams? You sound like Scott Adams. Careful, he may use his erotic hypnosis and make you absolutely flood your downstairs.
|
|
#
?
Oct 25, 2016 04:14
|
|
|
This whole election has been insane, and I'll be glad when it's finally over. Most of what Trump presents to the world is a farce, but that doesn't necessarily imply that behind the farce is something much smarter than what he presents. It's all confusing. Polls help you follow the process as it goes along, but they can be capricious and inaccurate, and we'll never really know what the result is until it finally happens and we can all go home and live the rest of our lives...assuming Trump doesn't follow through with his threat to contest the results and manage to extend things FURTHER. AAARGH  That guy they covered at the end of the episode is a real dork, but is Kwanzaa really that big of a holiday? I thought it was a thing that was invented in the 70s, but never really got much traction in the community at large.
|
|
#
?
Oct 25, 2016 05:00
|
|
|
Kwanzaa isn't really celebrated by most African Americans. But it's also a focal point for right-wing racists when they rail against multiculturalism and political correctness. If someone's railing against it rather than lightly poking fun at it, then they're probably an rear end in a top hat.
|
|
#
?
Oct 25, 2016 05:16
|
|
|
What the hell is Kwanzaa?Ausmund posted:I mean, I don't want it to be. But, like, what if it is? What if it turns out to be true? People are so afraid of even looking like they defend him they won't attempt to pinpoint an underlying cause that doesn't have anything to do with attacking his character. The rationale seems to be, "Trump is such a bad person! He can't be the president! He just can't!" Dude I don't know what alternate dimension you're from where the trump campaign isn't more of a joke than it's ever been, but it sounds horrifying. raditts fucked around with this message at 08:13 on Oct 25, 2016 |
|
#
?
Oct 25, 2016 08:10
|
|
|
Mulva posted:He's had to take his name off his hotels because he's destroyed his branding. Like this isn't even a good troll because there's nothing in any aspect of reality that looks good for Donald Trump. He doesn't own "his" hotels does he? I think he's just being paid to put his name on them. I don't see any possible way his ego would allow him to take his name off anything willingly.
|
|
#
?
Oct 25, 2016 09:56
|
|
|
Poor Miserable Gurgi posted:Careful, he may use his erotic hypnosis and
|
|
#
?
Oct 25, 2016 10:54
|
|
|
raditts posted:What the hell is Kwanzaa? Man, I've been giving these out for 600 years.
|
|
#
?
Oct 25, 2016 14:00
|
|
|
I love how they kept on finding clips of that guy saying "rashist"
|
|
#
?
Oct 25, 2016 14:11
|
|
|
Eiba posted:And I mean, what do you suggest? Accept that Trump is right, nothing matters, and cruelty, selfishness, and petty tribal loyalties are all that drive us? Accept his behavior as natural and fine and go about our business as if he were any other candidate? Surely if we do that Trump will be vanquished... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pADHLsECWxY Props to him willing to look into why regular people support them instead of dismissing them all as morons and racists. I really think this idea of giving Trump any credit at all is too much credit is dishonest and lazy.
|
|
#
?
Oct 26, 2016 01:50
|
|
|
Ausmund posted:Props to him willing to look into why regular people support them instead of dismissing them all as morons and racists. I really think this idea of giving Trump any credit at all is too much credit is dishonest and lazy. To counter that, there's this article which looks at the stats of Trump supporters and shows that they don't fit that narrative. http://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2016/10/15/13286498/donald-trump-voters-race-economic-anxiety I tried to see if Vox is biased and their stats can't be relied on, but trying to find whether a website is biased leads to a bunch of sites which they themselves appear to be biased, so it's bias all the way down.
|
|
#
?
Oct 26, 2016 02:53
|
|
|
Can we all just agree that Chris Matthews love of "Love, Actually" was the best part of the episode?
|
|
#
?
Oct 26, 2016 03:04
|
|
|
Ausmund posted:I mean, I don't want it to be. But, like, what if it is? What if it turns out to be true? People are so afraid of even looking like they defend him they won't attempt to pinpoint an underlying cause that doesn't have anything to do with attacking his character. The rationale seems to be, "Trump is such a bad person! He can't be the president! He just can't!" Ausmund posted:No, there's a lot more to it than that. Here's Michael Moore(who doesn't support him) getting into what I was trying to say. Understanding the motivations of Trump's voters is important. Trump isn't a joke, in any way, and even at like 10% or whatever it's terrifyingly plausibly for what it represents. Trump definitely has appeal, and it's important to look at what that appeal is, who he appeals to and so on. I was specifically contesting the idea that he's a Machiavellian calculator who is in any way in control of that appeal. One of his appeals is that he's "authentic". He gets that by obviously letting his id flow. The thing is letting his id flow also makes him do really dumb things that actually hurt his chances. This conversation started because John Oliver said, "How did he gently caress up this dinner so bad?" and you said two things about that- one that his doesn't-give-a-gently caress attitude about the media is a strength of his (which is true to an extent), and secondly that it's intentional (and he's smart for doing it). My response was trying to communicate three points- first that I didn't think it was intentional (or that he was smart for doing it), second I was disputing the actual success at this point in the election of that trait, and third I wanted to emphasize that calling out his transgressions is really important! Not dismissing him as a joke, but calling him out as an rear end. He was an rear end in a top hat in that dinner. He broke rules of etiquette. That's what outraged the people there, and that outrage is important. Without it Trump himself is normalized, and an important bulwark against people like him is removed. Examining the reasons people support Trump is important, but I would recommend for your own sanity examining why people oppose Trump. And we should be clear, there are a lot more people who oppose Trump than support him. Even among people who are going to vote for him, a historically large number of those people say they are voting against Clinton, rather than for Trump. Even Clinton with her low favorability overall, and up against Trump, has fairly average to high levels of people voting for her, rather than against Trump. In other words: Clinton of all people has more passionate supporters who believe in her than Trump does. Trump is disruptive and he does have his supporters, but in even larger numbers he has his detractors. Because bully and bombast and ignoring norms and eschewing empathy are gross. Even people who are holding their nose to vote for him think so. So I'll answer my own hypothetical you quoted twice: Trump is wrong. Decency matters. His behavior is not natural and fine in our political sphere. He feels its his strength, but it's not, its his weakness. And Jon Oliver was right to boggle at Trump not getting that.
|
|
#
?
Oct 26, 2016 04:25
|
|
|
I'm surprised Oliver hasn't brought up Brexit because it's incredibly relevant to what's going on. The left wing derided the right wing as stupid idiots who didn't know anything and believed everything they were told, and so they responded by voting for Brexit with great passion. Even if it wasn't what they truly wanted. People don't like to be looked down upon and have their opinion disregarded, especially when there's some validity and they're being made vague promises that won't be kept. To some relevancy, I looked through my review pile and put on a Trump 'documentary' I presumed was a left wing hit piece that I could nod along to, like you often see. Wasn't until about 10-15 minutes in I realized it was actually praising him, because all it is is clips of the guy talking at rallies and in debates. If it wasn't for the narrator, who barely comes on, saying something pro-trump there was no way I'd realize it was actually supposed to be a best of. It was a pretty hard watch for an hour, regardless of how I saw it.
|
|
#
?
Oct 26, 2016 06:41
|
|
|
Michael Moore has released Trumpland. Has anyone seen it?
|
|
#
?
Oct 26, 2016 06:58
|
|
|
The problem I have with that Michael Moore speech is that he didn't acknowledge that the problem that the Trump voters have are partly of their own making by repeatedly voting Republicans which were against their own interest as they are voting against themselves now by voting Trump. They keep repeatedly falling for the wedge issues like Abortion and Gun control ignoring or actively fighting against things that would benefit them like Universal Healthcare, inequality, progressive taxation or police reform. Trump is a monster of the GOP's own making based on the Tea parties that they help form in order to boost their base. Now they are so right wing they are Fascist. The democrats aren't perfect, but from the outside looking in I don't see why anybody would think voting Republican at any time was a good idea for the past 30 years.
|
|
#
?
Oct 26, 2016 09:24
|
|
|
oohhboy posted:The problem I have with that Michael Moore speech, is that he didn't acknowledge that the problem that the Trump voters have are partly of their own making. By repeatedly voting for Republicans who were against their interests, they are voting against themselves, now by voting Trump. They keep repeatedly falling for the wedge issues like abortion and gun control, ignoring, or actively fighting against things that would benefit them. Things like Universal Healthcare, inequality, progressive taxation or police reform. You're welcome.  Just watched the episode finally. Take the bet Donald. Second half seemed like a rehash of an old Vice episode, complete with the same archived footage. Opiates are bad, I mean, someone stole my Norco the other day. I need that stuff... for reasons. Anyways, a little off topic, but there's new research that suggests low dosages of synthetic opiates (specifically buprenorphine) are effective in the treatment of severe anxiety/depression. Personally, I'm impressed.
|
|
#
?
Oct 26, 2016 14:16
|
|
|
Alan_Shore posted:Michael Moore has released Trumpland. Has anyone seen it? I have a copy, haven't watched it, but heard bad things. It's basically him doing standup, which... doesn't sound good.
|
|
#
?
Oct 26, 2016 14:31
|
|
|
At least if he's standing up it'll be short.
|
|
#
?
Oct 26, 2016 14:39
|
|
|
You know he lost all the weight like 10 years ago right? Now he looks like he has cancer.
|
|
#
?
Oct 26, 2016 14:47
|
|
|
Eiba posted:But... it didn't work. At all. If anything it accelerated his plunge into certain defeat. You're giving him way more credit than he is due. Yep, if Trump had just invested the money his family gave him in a diverse fashion he'd be an actual billionaire Trump's outlook and him still being rich is just proof that it's really hard to fail completely if you're born wealthy, it's not an indication that he knows what he's doing
|
|
#
?
Oct 26, 2016 14:55
|
|
|
EL BROMANCE posted:I'm surprised Oliver hasn't brought up Brexit because it's incredibly relevant to what's going on. The left wing derided the right wing as stupid idiots who didn't know anything and believed everything they were told, and so they responded by voting for Brexit with great passion. Even if it wasn't what they truly wanted. People don't like to be looked down upon and have their opinion disregarded, especially when there's some validity and they're being made vague promises that won't be kept. Brexit really isn't relevant, though, for at least two reasons: 1. The demographics of the UK & US are incredibly different. The UK is far less diverse than the US, and Trump has severely offended just about everyone outside of his base (non-college educated white males). The US election would look very different if we were as white as the UK is. 2. The actual polling (what are you planning to vote for) for Brexit was far closer than the current race between Hillary and Trump is. When Trump talks about how nobody thought that Brexit would happen, that's a different question (what do you think will happen vs. what are you voting for). Almost all of the polls leading up to the vote were within the statistical margin of error. The bottom line is Trump lies or distorts the facts about literally everything, and he's done so his entire life. He was smart enough to tap into the anger and fears of white America, but not smart enough to do anything meaningful with it. It's like drilling for oil but not building a well once you find it. He had an (unearned) reputation as a strongman because of his time on The Apprentice which gave him a built-in reputation from the start. He's an insecure narcissist who listens to nobody but himself, only reads/watches news about himself, is incredibly thin skinned and pathologically does not know how to admit he was wrong or made a mistake. He barely has surface knowledge of any of his policies and without a prompter he's reduced to discussing things in extremely hyperbolic terms (very bad, so terrible what's happening, etc.) Nothing he's done during his campaign has expanded his base at all, and it's incredible that the GOP boogeywoman for the past 3 decades has a (very) slim but real chance of winning both the House and Senate because of how poorly Trump has run his campaign. What Trump tapped into isn't a joke, but the man himself very much is.
|
|
#
?
Oct 26, 2016 16:42
|
|
|
GobiasIndustries posted:What Trump tapped into isn't a joke, but the man himself very much is. This is a really great point. The man himself is a buffoon, which is why, especially early on, people would ironically support him because he was funny and can you imagine this blistering insane person could be president? Hilarious! I honestly find that position to be very aggravating because you should want someone competent doing such an important job, but the larger and scarier issue is that the group of people he represents aren't like him, but they are listening to the racist, fearmongering, hateful things he is saying and saying "finally, someone who says what I've been thinking!" It's giving legitimacy to these awful beliefs as okay to be mainstream. Even if (when) he doesn't win, it's too late because he was already a candidate. Hillary isn't going to get 90% of the vote. He's going to get some significant percentage such that people who think and say and act on racism and misogyny are going to be able to point to the other 40+% of people who obviously agree with them and think that it is acceptable. It's why yes it's fun to laugh at Trump the man, but let's not laugh at Trump the candidate because he represents something much more sinister than a whiny orange troll with tiny hands.
|
|
#
?
Oct 26, 2016 17:19
|
|
|
EL BROMANCE posted:I'm surprised Oliver hasn't brought up Brexit because it's incredibly relevant to what's going on. The left wing derided the right wing as stupid idiots who didn't know anything and believed everything they were told, and so they responded by voting for Brexit with great passion. Even if it wasn't what they truly wanted. People don't like to be looked down upon and have their opinion disregarded, especially when there's some validity and they're being made vague promises that won't be kept. Aside from what's already been said, the $64,000 question though, is what do you even say to people who are not only okay with their chosen candidate bragging about his bold sexual-assault-based strategy for approaching women and belittling, criminalizing approach to people of color, but actually praise it. It's not all just an issue of the rage of the disenfranchised right, there are some legit disgusting opinions baked all through that voting base and that is not something to be ignored. You're giving them way too much credit to believe otherwise. raditts fucked around with this message at 17:31 on Oct 26, 2016 |
|
#
?
Oct 26, 2016 17:27
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 15, 2024 21:49 |
|
|
Alan_Shore posted:Michael Moore has released Trumpland. Has anyone seen it? I saw it. It's like other duder said, it's him doing standup. It isn't AS bad as it sounds. Moore is a humorist...but he is no comedian.
|
|
#
?
Oct 26, 2016 18:50
|
|
