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Northjayhawk posted:This was probably lost in jury selection. This is a clear and obvious case of jury nullification. I mean nullification makes sense here if your goal is to make armed revolution by white guys legal but if you can't even assemble a group of twelve people without eleven of them being for armed revolution then poo poo is more hosed up in america than anyone has really noticed
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Oct 28, 2016 01:02
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Jonas Albrecht posted:This is super frustrating. I worry it's only going to empower these militia dildos to do more dumb and terrible poo poo. Let's be honest here, any outcome to this trial would have done that.
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Oct 28, 2016 01:02
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Telsa Cola posted:Which is dumb and you should not be able to affect legal consquencences based on no backing. Let's just go ahead and keep our constitutional prohibition against double jeopardy even though the outcome of this one case sucked. Thanks in advance.
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Oct 28, 2016 01:04
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Jazerus posted:I mean nullification makes sense here if your goal is to make armed revolution by white guys legal It could have just been tremendous bad luck.
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Oct 28, 2016 01:05
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If you're a white progressive this is probably the closest thing to knowing what the rodney king verdict felt like to black people.
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Oct 28, 2016 01:05
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TheScott2K posted:No, an acquittal should be an acquittal. Acquitted defendants need to be able to go on with their lives, not deal with years-long campaigns by shitbird prosecutors trying to appeal their way to a win. An acquittal should have some further backing more than "We felt like being nice today". Im not saying that double jeopardy rule is dumb, I just dont understand why a jury is allowed to make a decision and then just not have to show any proof that they were reasonable and sane individuals while making it.
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Oct 28, 2016 01:04
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Jazerus posted:I mean nullification makes sense here if your goal is to make armed revolution by white guys legal Its 6 in this federal court. If Oregon brings a case, it'll be more difficult to find 12 for nullification.
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Oct 28, 2016 01:05
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TheScott2K posted:Finnicum should have just gone quietly, huh? No no, you have it backwards, the rest of them should have gone out like Finnicum.
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Oct 28, 2016 01:06
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OPB.org is getting hammered right now, but their coverage of the trial has been really good.
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Oct 28, 2016 01:07
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Telsa Cola posted:An acquittal should have some further backing more than "We felt like being nice today". They were acquitted of conspiracy charges. That's it. Any vandalism or theft, threats, assault, etc can still be brought to trial against them.
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Oct 28, 2016 01:07
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Oct 28, 2016 01:06
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Trump's gonna come out and praise these people as heroes soon huh?
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Oct 28, 2016 01:08
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Kro-Bar posted:Goddamn it, God, why couldn't you have gotten this one thing right?! yeah no. Dexo fucked around with this message at 01:13 on Oct 28, 2016 |
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Oct 28, 2016 01:07
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Northjayhawk posted:This was probably lost in jury selection. This is a clear and obvious case of jury nullification. It's the most classic use of it actually.
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Oct 28, 2016 01:08
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SeANMcBAY posted:Trump's gonna come out and praise these people as heroes soon huh? Only after pulling them up on stage with him to receive their endorsement.
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Oct 28, 2016 01:08
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well well well which one of you fuckers did it?
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Oct 28, 2016 01:08
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..Just got the news about the Bundy Boys. What in the everloving gently caress???   Night10194 posted:How the hell did they get off for that? And it's all completely unnecessary. I don't know whether to puke from disgust or feel upset or numb because of how unsurprising it is, as another poster said. Is there any way to formally protest this ruling? Like with megaphones and poo poo? e: Talk about an October Surprise, gently caress.
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Oct 28, 2016 01:08
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Yes. Get a megaphone and protest. Protesting does not have a large barrier to entry.
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Oct 28, 2016 01:10
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protesting protips: be white and don't mention race, or else you'll get teargassed
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Oct 28, 2016 01:10
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Senf posted:well well well  Well gently caress me sideways. I'm literally shocked.
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Oct 28, 2016 01:11
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FactsAreUseless posted:OPB.org is getting hammered right now, but their coverage of the trial has been really good. Yeah, if you can still get their podcast, "This Land is Our Land", one of the episodes dove pretty deep into the difficulty in prosecuting a conspiracy case. It also didn't help that many of the prosecution witness testimony was self-defeating: where FWS employees said they weren't actually prevented from going to work (by the Bundys) and that the local Sheriff didn't feel like he was threatened by the occupiers.
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Oct 28, 2016 01:12
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Its kinda funny (or sad) that the prosecution got tricked. When they heard that there was one holdout and the 5 were saying the 6th was "biased", they probably thought, oh we got one nut in the pool, if we get him out, we'll get our conviction. lol, turns out it was the other way around. There were 5 nuts and 1 guy refusing to let them walk.
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Oct 28, 2016 01:12
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CrazyLittle posted:They were acquitted of conspiracy charges. That's it. Any vandalism or theft, threats, assault, etc can still be brought to trial against them. Okay, I guess Im pretty furious right now and not thinking clearly. Are there any charges for archaeological stuff on the docket still? Those can be pretty nasty.
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Oct 28, 2016 01:12
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CrazyLittle posted:Yeah, if you can still get their podcast, "This Land is Our Land", one of the episodes dove pretty deep into the difficulty in prosecuting a conspiracy case. It also didn't help that many of the prosecution witness testimony was self-defeating: where FWS employees said they weren't actually prevented from going to work (by the Bundys) and that the local Sheriff didn't feel like he was threatened by the occupiers.
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Oct 28, 2016 01:12
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Maybe David Fry will finally get the help he needs. 
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Oct 28, 2016 01:12
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I'm speechless. Ya'llqueda got off. But at least I early voted straight D in florida. gently caress you, rick scott and pam bondi.
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Oct 28, 2016 01:13
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Telsa Cola posted:Okay, I guess Im pretty furious right now and not thinking clearly. Are there any charges for archaeological stuff on the docket still? Those can be pretty nasty. Those would probably be state charges, if pressed at all. This was strictly the federal trial for conspiracy to impede FWS employees from working, with a sub-charge of using a firearm in the commission of the conspiracy. So if they weren't a coordinated effort to stop FWS from working, then it didn't matter if they had guns or not.
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Oct 28, 2016 01:13
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A Winner is Jew posted:If you're a white progressive this is probably the closest thing to knowing what the rodney king verdict felt like to black people.  I want to cry.
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Oct 28, 2016 01:15
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Long story short: it's not that important what actually happened, that's not how our court system works. poo poo is complicated.
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Oct 28, 2016 01:13
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Telsa Cola posted:An acquittal should have some further backing more than "We felt like being nice today". Because that's the entire point of juries. One last democratic check on the three branches of government before we lock someone up. The whole point is to err on the side of letting guilty people go.
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Oct 28, 2016 01:15
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I discovered why I got an absentee ballot I didn't apply for: It's for the last resident of my apartment. I've lived here for 6 years. What the hell do I do with this thing, just return it to the county clerk and say there's been a mistake?
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Oct 28, 2016 01:14
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oh, they were ONLY tried for conspiracy? Thats it? Well, this isn't so bad then, thats actually one of the more difficult charges to prove. (well its not difficult, but everything else is a slam-dunk) There should still be a wide variety of state and federal crimes to indict them for. Maybe it was a smart bit of strategy to only try them for a few of the possible crimes at a time, in case something went haywire at trial they still had other charges as backup.
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Oct 28, 2016 01:16
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Night10194 posted:I discovered why I got an absentee ballot I didn't apply for: It's for the last resident of my apartment. Yeah do that.
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Oct 28, 2016 01:15
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I lost my faith in the Feds fighting white terrorists using the courts after the justice department looked into Ferguson and all we got was a report that said "yeah they're pretty racist."
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Oct 28, 2016 01:16
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Night10194 posted:I discovered why I got an absentee ballot I didn't apply for: It's for the last resident of my apartment.  but for voting.
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Oct 28, 2016 01:15
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Sinteres posted:
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Oct 28, 2016 01:18
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Wasn't one of the charges possession of a firearm on federal land/facilities? There was video evidence of them carrying guns!
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Oct 28, 2016 01:18
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Telsa Cola posted:An acquittal should have some further backing more than "We felt like being nice today". Playing devil's advocate (as someone with no legal background), any justification they offer would have to be accepted or you're kind of throwing out the importance of the jury, so their justification is irrelevant. If you would argue that the jury must defend their verdict, then that is an unfair burden since the jurors are extremely unlikely to have the legal background to adequately do that in what would be essentially a second trial. Yes this verdict is lovely and bad, but saying fundamental parts of the jury system and presumption of innocence are faulty because of it isn't a good look. If anything the fault here is in jury selection.
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Oct 28, 2016 01:17
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Northjayhawk posted:oh, they were ONLY tried for conspiracy? Thats it?
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Oct 28, 2016 01:17
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Endorph posted:that'd be voter fraud It wasn't a serious suggestion.
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Oct 28, 2016 01:18
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