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Kibbles n Shits posted:Horse economy. Go on, friend.
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Oct 29, 2016 00:49
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| # ? May 15, 2024 21:54 |
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Anyone playing this on a mac yet? I finally got a new computer that could handle games, and I see it's on steam/app store (though I see horrible reviews in the App store). Just wondering if there are issues for the Mac port.
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Oct 29, 2016 00:49
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Lady Naga posted:Go on, friend. Build Horsemen with production-boosting policies, sell them, use the gold to buy other stuff Bonus: Do it as Scythia!
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Oct 29, 2016 00:50
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Brannock posted:Build Horsemen with production-boosting policies, sell them, use the gold to buy other stuff If my math is right, unless you're Scythia you don't actually make a profit doing this and in the end produce what you want equally fast by selling horses or by producing the thing directly, though the horse economy allows you to have several cities work on a project jointly.
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Oct 29, 2016 00:52
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MMM Whatchya Say posted:The best pillage move is to bring your workers in and strip resources off the map for quick cash. Real salt the earth stuff, except you're actually taking the salt out.
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Oct 29, 2016 00:57
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Devorum posted:Am I just unlucky, or is the AI extremely aggressive in this game? Understanding Diplomacy is tricky, and some of the settings are just plain bad. You are rated based on your relations and actions with each civ individually, and you need that number to be higher and higher to have better relationships with them. Each Civ has 2 agendas, one set based on the civ and the other random from a pool that could be anything from "likes it when you murder barbarians" to "hates anyone who makes wars upon or has suzerain status with city states." There are also a host of common modifiers - how you get along with their friends, for example, of do you have any trade routes with them that they profit from? have you made any deals that are beneficial to them? If you can get these modifiers, some of which you will know and some of which you won't based upon your spy level with them. Some of them you will see as unknown, others you won't see at all without a certain level of openness, and others you won't see ever under any circumstances. Managing them liking you can be a pain. It gets worse, because many of those invisible modifiers are based on where you sit on the civ chart in relationship to them - some people like it when you out-tech them, others hate it, and that's true for everything you get rated on (military strength, Economic Strength, policies, etc.) They all like it when you share their government and religion (Pantheons don't seem to count as having a religion for this). They all dislike it to varying degrees when you do not. Some people think it makes you backwards, and others think it makes you a xeno-demo-scum that must be cleansed no matter how much they liked you when you were both economic republics or whatever. So, yes, them changing their government type or you changing yours can go from friends to war. Same for religion. Finally, they all relate themselves to you in terms of military and economic strength. If you're weak, and they think they can take you in a fight, they'll declare war even if you're super best friends. So to have diplomatic relations count, you need to have a decent standing military. This is made even more stupid by them getting a large amount of free units throughout the game, so unless you're dumping a large amount of production into your military you're going to go war with the people around you. When you beat them (because they're attacking your archer fortified city with scouts/warriors and you just kill 2 units each turn) they still hate you for having warred with them (even though they started it) so now you have to get out of your diplomatic hole before you can start diplomatic relations with them again. Some of them will care about agreements and won't break them without actual provocation or them expiring, others will accept an alliance to move their units up against your cities for a sneak attack. Economy works the same way, except you get it in deals in the late game. If you're economy is weak or you've given out too many deals that they got the good side on they'll start demanding them and use war as a threat to your economy. Finally they all hate it when they can't plant another city between your borders and theirs, or if you have a good spot they want to put a city on, or any other way in which you are blocking their expansion. This will piss them off to no end, and it just seems to ramp up as a negative modifier, so don't ever really expect peace with nearby civs. If you want to play the diplomacy game without constant early war you need to play on a bigger map with less civs, or do the humanly thing and kill your neighbors while you're all just barbarians wearing furs so that there isn't anyone to get jealous of you for 12-1400 years.
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Oct 29, 2016 01:09
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I've yet to establish a trade route that didn't have a blank box for what the other party would be getting out the route.
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Oct 29, 2016 01:12
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Supposedly you can buy and sell corps and armies for pure profit.
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Oct 29, 2016 01:16
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Duey posted:If I don't have a religion of my own is there any point in building holy sites? Also, I conquered France which had founded Catholicism, but now I can't adopt Catholicism and spread it as though it were my own? You have to found a holy site to get a great prophet, which is how you make a religion. If all the Great Prophets are taken, you can get proslytized by some other guy and receive all their non-founder benefits (special building, usually produces some combo of 5 faith + one other thing). Certain buildings in faith districts allow you to purchase units with faith, always great people and sometimes other types of units depending on the beliefs of the religion. Not sure if the religion dies with its founder or not. As for making peace, it's a weird button near the top of the diplomacy panel that only appears after a certain number of turns since war was declared. Kind of a pain to see some times.
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Oct 29, 2016 01:16
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They should make the AI have two values. One is how much it likes you and is affected by agendas and stuff, and another that's how willing to coexist with you, that's based on things like relative strength, expansion needs, trade relationships, etc. That way you could have an AI that doesn't want to go to war, because it needs those sweet deals, but it hates your guts so it's still going to spam you with spies and missionaries. Or vice versa, where the AI likes you, but you're sitting on some nice iron and forgot to build a military, so it'll write you a nice letter of apology as it sends the tanks in. As it is, I think there's just too many variables that are all affecting a single axis of behavior, and that's going to make the AI seem even more irrational than it even is. Also, it would probably help if they fleshed out war declarations even more. A declared war should have a goal, instead of every war always being TOTAL CONQUEST. That way, you can get an AI willing to leverage a slight advantage to risk a 'raiding war' just hoping to get some sweet pillage, instead of getting embroiled in an all-out war to the death that it's not even going to try to wage properly, let alone win.
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Oct 29, 2016 01:24
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Sanctum posted:Do you get yields or are you just removing a bonus tile in someone's territory to cripple them? You get the yields if you've captured the cities there. You can still give them back at the end of the war to refund your warmonger points. I don't know if it works if you don't take the cities, I do that anyway
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Oct 29, 2016 01:23
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Peas and Rice posted:Is something similar true for even trying to offer peace? I decided to just say gently caress it and beat the poo poo out of Germany, I've captured two of his cities and I want to see if he'll take peace, but there seems to be no option for doing so (and the math grid about how much he hates me is like -50 for warmongering and +5 for a big treasury, so,) You can denounce anyone, any time. You don't need a reason. However, you can't denounce people who denounce you. Or rather, you don't need to. Think of it more of as a state between the two civs that is worse than peace but not outright war. The entire point of denouncing is that it enables the declaration of formal war, and either civ can start a formal war 5 turns after the denouncement. It doesn't matter who denounced who. As for peace offers, if the button isn't there I think it's because the AI isn't willing to take a peace deal. I've never seen the AI reject a peace deal once the button appears (unless you ask for too much, but they will always at least take white peace). Geight posted:I've yet to establish a trade route that didn't have a blank box for what the other party would be getting out the route. I think by default the target city gets nothing unless they have some sort of special ability that makes them get a profit from trade routes. I think a wonder does that and maybe also a couple of city states.
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Oct 29, 2016 01:45
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I think Egypt does too
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Oct 29, 2016 01:47
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Well that escalated quickly. Mostly wiped out Scythia, because they were pissing me off with raining apostles and missionaries all over the place - killed every apostle and missionary I could find in the process, too. Left them with 2 BS cities because I'm a nice guy and wanted to see if that would help with the war weariness vs. wiping them out and never having the chance for them to cede cities. A dozen or so turns later, I found this scene near one of my cities. Count 'em, twelve Jesuses (Jesusi?) back from the dead and terrorizing my people - and that's just in what I could see.  Scythia drat near won a religious victory with the zombie Jesus crew. I had to put everything I had into creating my Radical Islamic Terrorists to suicide bomb their apostles until I could finally turn the tide and win the war of attrition. That took even longer than the war that took them from 10 cities to 2. Guys, I just created ISIS by not finishing what I started.
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Oct 29, 2016 02:02
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I think if you totally annihilate a civ then their cities are effectively ceded to you.
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Oct 29, 2016 02:03
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Something you can do is get some Apostles with the theological combat bonus and have them sleep on a holy site. The AI loves to suicide its apostles into it, and despite there being no indication of this anywhere a sleeping apostle on a holy site will heal. If you're ever in danger of losing an apostle you can stack a military unit on a wounded apostle and they can't hit it anymore.
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Oct 29, 2016 03:20
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Is there an obvious indicator like Civ 5's global happiness that shows how many cities you can build without causing issues? Amenities seem to be city-specific.
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Oct 29, 2016 03:48
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momtartin posted:Anyone playing this on a mac yet? I finally got a new computer that could handle games, and I see it's on steam/app store (though I see horrible reviews in the App store). Just wondering if there are issues for the Mac port. I've been playing since the 24th, when it dropped on the Steam store, and haven't run into a single issue., on a recent-model Macbook Pro.
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Oct 29, 2016 03:53
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Honestly as long as you have some faith left for an inquisition and a city left it really shouldn't be a big problem. Inquisitors are loving amazing is something I have recently learned in my domination-victory game.
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Oct 29, 2016 03:55
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Magil Zeal posted:Something you can do is get some Apostles with the theological combat bonus and have them sleep on a holy site. The AI loves to suicide its apostles into it, and despite there being no indication of this anywhere a sleeping apostle on a holy site will heal. If you're ever in danger of losing an apostle you can stack a military unit on a wounded apostle and they can't hit it anymore. That's assuming you can even promote them with the combat bonus. There's a bug where around halfway in the game you can no longer promote your apostles. I think building Mont St Michel has something to do with it. reignofevil posted:Honestly as long as you have some faith left for an inquisition and a city left it really shouldn't be a big problem. Yeah I'm gonna have to try that one out. The documentation on inquisitions is pretty thin, but seeing how ineffective my missionaries now are in converting the solidly-Scythian religion it makes more sense to try addition by subtraction.
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Oct 29, 2016 04:06
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Am I missing something with Inquisitors? They only work in your territory and the one I built seemed weaker than the invading Apostle.
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Oct 29, 2016 04:13
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I miss naming cities most of all.
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Oct 29, 2016 04:13
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In my experience they would take a city that I had never even touched with my missionaries (and was otherwise very much worshipping a different religion) and they flipped the entire city to my religion instantly. This was on prince tho. YMMV
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Oct 29, 2016 04:17
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Geight posted:Am I missing something with Inquisitors? They only work in your territory and the one I built seemed weaker than the invading Apostle. I think they're weak at religious combat, but really good at cutting religions out of your cities.
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Oct 29, 2016 04:33
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Man going wide as America is really strong. I had archeologists and film studios in all 8 of my cities and reached something like 800 tourism by turn 250. I won a culture victory on turn 270 on Immortal against great people and wonder spammer AIs too, Kongo + Brazil + France. That +100% tourism bonus in the modern era is some absurd poo poo.
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Oct 29, 2016 05:02
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Mr Burglar Man posted:I think they're weak at religious combat, but really good at cutting religions out of your cities. They're just as strong if they are in your territory (or maybe if they are in territory of their religion - not sure), but they don't get any promotions like Apostles, so certain Apostles will crush Inquisitors. Also, if you are having a ton of invading religious units, consider switching to some the policies for bonus theological combat strength.
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Oct 29, 2016 05:02
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cheetah7071 posted:If my math is right, unless you're Scythia you don't actually make a profit doing this and in the end produce what you want equally fast by selling horses or by producing the thing directly, though the horse economy allows you to have several cities work on a project jointly. This is correct, with the caveat that being a Merchant Republic makes it profitable because you're getting an additional discount on buying things with the gold. Either way though, it's very good for shuffling production around between cities. Make and sell a bunch of horses in your capital to spend the gold on troops/settlers/builders/buildings elsewhere in places with less production to save time. As Scythia, it basically says "double production time for everything everywhere (except districts and wonders)".
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Oct 29, 2016 05:09
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Is there really any gameplay mechanic to ward off constantly pumping out settlers and settling in bumfuck nowhere besides the opportunity cost of those hammers and the hammer cost increasing per settler?
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Oct 29, 2016 05:44
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comedyblissoption posted:Is there really any gameplay mechanic to ward off constantly pumping out settlers and settling in bumfuck nowhere besides the opportunity cost of those hammers and the hammer cost increasing per settler? Tedium. You can't set a city to build gold/science/etc. forever now.
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Oct 29, 2016 05:58
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Tried for a religous victory, comp was making dozens of apostles a turn every turn by turn 95ish they literally coated the entire map, they only had 4 cities get the feeling they need to adjust their boosts.
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Oct 29, 2016 06:52
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I just realized the late-game settler is driving an RV!  Whatever other issues this game has, art team deserves props.
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Oct 29, 2016 07:19
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Where is the "Discuss" option on the diplomacy screen? I can't find it anywhere and it's infuriating to not be able to tell the other Civs to stop settling cities right on my boarder. I tried googling this and I can't find anything. 
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Oct 29, 2016 07:28
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AVeryLargeRadish posted:Where is the "Discuss" option on the diplomacy screen? I can't find it anywhere and it's infuriating to not be able to tell the other Civs to stop settling cities right on my boarder. I tried googling this and I can't find anything. I think it only shows up if the civ in question is diplomatically amicable to you. Or that's my best guess, anyways. Sometimes it's there on the diplo screen, sometimes it's not.
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Oct 29, 2016 07:32
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Man. Don't mess with Scythia. Healing units for kills on top of double cavalry units? That's crazy. I wonder if they'll ever go for Attilla this generation. Because Scythia is basically hitting all his high points--focus on cavalry hordes, strong warmonger in the early game. Only thing they don't have is his ability to burn down cities twice as fast.
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Oct 29, 2016 07:56
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MMM Whatchya Say posted:you can settle weak cities that aren't going anywhere just to grab resources or fill out space Just to build on this good point, if you don't fill up space, the AI will as soon as it gets Cartography and use their cities checkerboarding your empire's core to buy an army and launch an attack, like America did to me.
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Oct 29, 2016 08:01
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The White Dragon posted:Just to build on this good point, if you don't fill up space, the AI will as soon as it gets Cartography and use their cities checkerboarding your empire's core to buy an army and launch an attack, like America did to me. And the great thing about this is you get extreme warmongering penalties for exterminating these cities. So if you'r trying to play peacefully, at best you just occupy these cities and deal with them being way below efficiency and eating up district space.
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Oct 29, 2016 08:10
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Is this also the thread for older versions? Cause I decided to pick up IV too and now I'm getting stomped, no idea what my tech/build priorities should be in order to catch up with the AI.
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Oct 29, 2016 08:14
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Thank you Monty for turning the 2 scouts that I got from tribal villages into builders so i could steal them off you the next turn. It really helped develop my new city after ancient era rushing you to death.
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Oct 29, 2016 08:49
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The Shortest Path posted:This is correct, with the caveat that being a Merchant Republic makes it profitable because you're getting an additional discount on buying things with the gold. No, Merchant Republics get less gold for deleting units. e: Wait doesn't this mean the devs foresaw deleting units being exploitable for Merchant Republics and did something to prevent that? But didn't do a drat thing about Scythia?? And apparently it's fine as long as you don't actually make a profit, even if it allows you to basically transfer production to another city? It's better if you're not yet a Merchant Republic but will be soon though. But as said later on in the game corps/armies make it profitable for everyone. Presumably corps are supposed to sell for double price and armies for triple, but they actually sell for 4x and 9x, I'm guessing because the game's accidentally doing the multiplication twice. That means it's actually profitable to buy units, merge them into armies and then sell them, so if you're willing to exploit bugs you have infinite money after unlocking armies. ThirdEmperor posted:Is this also the thread for older versions? Cause I decided to pick up IV too and now I'm getting stomped, no idea what my tech/build priorities should be in order to catch up with the AI. Resources are more powerful in IV than in later versions, your first priority should be to get food resources improved. Wrt buildings granaries are effectively +100% growth so you want those asap too. Bronze working is a crucial early tech since it unlocks chopping and slavery which really help you get your economy off the ground. For small cities with granaries whipping is extremely cost efficient, you get 30 hammers per pop and it costs maybe half that in food to grow back. Get some cottages going early too. You want roughly twice as many workers as you have cities. Keep expanding until you drop to maybe 30% science rate at break even (or as close to 0% as you feel comfortable doing really, but you can really screw over your tech if you don't know what you're doing). A bit later on Currency is a very important tech both for the trade routes in every city and the ability to build wealth, letting you get your science slider back up. Staltran fucked around with this message at 10:01 on Oct 29, 2016 |
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Oct 29, 2016 09:43
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Thanks. First time through I tried to keep city upkeep down and hold Science at 90%, I imagine that might have had something to do with getting boxed in and slowly assimilated by the Germans.
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Oct 29, 2016 10:19
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