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Handsome Ralph posted:It's really annoying getting the denouncement notification and then watching the game load another screen that just lets you say goodbye (till you research a specific tech). Wait. What?
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Oct 31, 2016 16:59
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Rexides posted:Wait. What? I'm pretty sure (and I might be wrong), that until you reach a certain point in research, when you get denounced, all you can do is say goodbye. Whereas in V, you could tell them to either to eat poo poo or sorry that they feel that way from the get go.
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Oct 31, 2016 17:01
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But what is it?
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Oct 31, 2016 17:02
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The diplomacy screens really exemplify how puzzling my reaction to this game is. The preset animations I have to click through and watch for each notification, only for it to then load a second screen for meaningful interactions, is just mindbogglingly dumb and annoying to behold. But it exists along some really great decisions- the side bar that lets you flick between the diplomacy screens without returning to the map, as well as all of the available detail that exists on the diplomacy screen. I'd still like an infoaddict style 'global political allignment' web, but it's miles ahead of Civ V.
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Oct 31, 2016 17:03
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John F Bennett posted:But what is it? I can't remember to be totally honest. JVNO posted:The diplomacy screens really exemplify how puzzling my reaction to this game is. The preset animations I have to click through and watch for each notification, only for it to then load a second screen for meaningful interactions, is just mindbogglingly dumb and annoying to behold. Agreed. If they gave me the choice to scale down or eliminate animations for every diplomatic interaction I have with other civs, it'd make me quite happy.
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Oct 31, 2016 17:05
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It's 2 page late but I'll just lmao at that guy claiming that Great People are bad.
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Oct 31, 2016 17:17
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Handsome Ralph posted:I can't remember to be totally honest. You can completely eliminate animations. It's in the options. Diplomacy is much faster with them off. Edit: if I recall, it's in the Advanced Options for graphics.
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Oct 31, 2016 17:17
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homullus posted:You can completely eliminate animations. It's in the options. Diplomacy is much faster with them off. Oh awesome, I'm do that and see how it goes for me now. Thanks!
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Oct 31, 2016 17:19
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turboraton posted:It's 2 page late but I'll just lmao at that guy claiming that Great People are bad. I think Hildegarde von Bingen is useless if you're Kongo, since she needs a holy site to do her thing.
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Oct 31, 2016 17:20
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Handsome Ralph posted:I'm optimistic that they will fix things with a few patches but I'm going to avoid playing until the first patch hits and see what they improve. I know Civ V had it's share of issues at launch, but I feel like the AI at least, while not great, was still a little more predictable (and wouldn't lose their poo poo over wars they asked you to join, etc.) Still, this one is a massive improvement over V in that going wide isn't punished which allows for actual variety in your play, Civ V's global happiness was an albatross on any other mechanics in the game. The main issue right now with VI is that building a squad of archers and taking a couple cities seems to always be the right play in the first 100 turns, but it opens up quite a bit after that I think. Also Scythia but yeah don't play as Scythia unless you're punching above your normal skill level. homullus posted:The main problem I have is that the AI never seems to tech up on Prince and I am not interested in higher difficulty levels.
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Oct 31, 2016 17:22
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As a lifelong Bad Civ Player, I can confidently say that King in VI is more than reasonable for average players.
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Oct 31, 2016 17:26
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PirateBob posted:What's it like to start in an advanced era? I've never tried it in any civ game. The first thing you'll miss is the Ancient Era wars without the warmongering penalty. Because taking a City-State in this game is equivalent to stealing a worker from a City-State in Civ5. You're pretty much reliant on getting your Casus Belli quick if you wan't to go on the warpath without the whole world hating on you. You always starting with 2 Setters, Scouts and ranged, and the first city you found will spawn a Worker and anti-cav.
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Oct 31, 2016 17:28
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wyoak posted:I remember Civ V's AI being an unredeemable mess at launch, at least partly because it was pretty good in BTS so the contrast was glaring. VI's definitely needs tweaking but it's not worse than vanilla V's (I never played the expansions, maybe I'll fire up BNW to see what's up). The warmongering penalty should definitely be reduced globally and agendas are way too quick to kick in (I get it Kongo). There are some good ideas, I like Cassus Belli and agendas could theoretically give leaders the individual personalities they've been lacking since BTS, but basically the diplomacy game at this point is "delay the amount of time until someone pulls a 'surprise' war on you". Agendas being slower to start or ramping up so they matter more later would be a huge help. Cleopatra is basically impossible to deal with and is regularly denouncing me before turn 25, she'll get like a -20 modifier just for you existing if you find her in the early game.
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Oct 31, 2016 17:32
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wyoak posted:Still, this one is a massive improvement over V in that going wide isn't punished which allows for actual variety in your play, Civ V's global happiness was an albatross on any other mechanics in the game. I completely agree with you on this, and it's the one thing that makes me the most optimistic for VI once it gets some fixes. I also like the Cassus Belli feature and again, makes me optimistic for what the future holds. I'd recommend giving the expansions for V a shot, they really helped improve and fix the vanilla game greatly. It's not perfect, but BNW contends with BTS in terms of best Civ expansion in my opinion.
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Oct 31, 2016 17:34
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wyoak posted:King really isn't that much harder than Prince, why are you opposed to it? It's not so much that I am bad at Civ as I am uninterested in doing the things necessary to win at high levels -- I play at the highest level I can while still building a civilization as I think it "should be," which is to say not ignoring any aspect of a civilization. Above all, I love having the edge in technology, but engaging with all the subsystems while still being "pressed" occasionally by the AI. If I have to go all in on religion or conquest or whatever to win, neglecting some other piece, then it's not a level I want to play at. Maybe you're right, that King is the level I should be at, but Create Game defaults to Prince and I already have to change the game to Quick and Shuffle, so there's also an element of  I'll give King a try after I knock out a few more of the civ-specific achievements.
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Oct 31, 2016 17:37
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Hamlet442 posted:I've had AI beat me to them before and take a goody hut. I'm not sure if they get a bonus or it's more just taking it away from you. I had Saladin take a hut I was about to, them found a pantheon, so I checked and turns out he got a relic out of it. Then 5 turns later I found the Ark of the Covenant somewhere in the desolate snow fields.
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Oct 31, 2016 17:40
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prefect posted:This was exactly the first one I was thinking of. None of mine played any music I guess because I had turned the main Music slider to 0% lol
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Oct 31, 2016 17:45
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Efexeye posted:As a lifelong Bad Civ Player, I can confidently say that King in VI is more than reasonable for average players. I was doing a co-op game with a friend on Prince and we thought we were falling way behind since tech and civic-wise there were two civs one or two eras ahead of us for half the game (Peter kept on messaging me every 5 turns telling me how backward I was because of his agenda). But by the industrial era they really started to stagnate for some unknown reason. By the time we were rolling with AT Crews and Mechanized Infantry they were still milling around shuffling all their spearmen and catapults around for no reason. Also none of the AIs seemed to be making any kind of push towards a victory
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Oct 31, 2016 18:07
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turboraton posted:It's 2 page late but I'll just lmao at that guy claiming that Great People are bad. Thanks for your compelling counterargument. Remind me again how an early great scientist that gives discounts to 1-2 techs is better than Civ V great scientists that let you build an academy early on and get thousands of beakers over the course of the game, or pick any random free tech often to advance an era over what would have otherwise taken 10-20 turns of research. Or Civ V great merchants that effectively give you more cash than many Civ VI merchants and free influence to boot (envoys). Great Engineers? Some are good, the tile appeal ones suck. If those numbers are right, the wonder-building ones may or may not give enough production to rush-build Petra, which is what most Civ V players cared about. But the main point is you could choose between two reasonably powerful uses instead of potentially getting stuck with a weak one. I've barely paid any attention to culture as it seems like it's not worth the effort and the system is less coherent than in Civ V (which was cobbled together piecemeal itself). I do prefer not having to spam archaelogists and wait 10-20 turns for them to do their thing, but the cultural monument option was kind of cool. Precambrian Video Games fucked around with this message at 18:26 on Oct 31, 2016 |
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Oct 31, 2016 18:23
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Yeah why can't we have these things from that other game with its own balance and design?!??
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Oct 31, 2016 18:26
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prefect posted:I think Hildegarde von Bingen is useless if you're Kongo, since she needs a holy site to do her thing. Does she need a holy site district, or a holy city? The former is just a district and even the Kongo can build those (and should to get faith to buy great people). The latter is a holy site that a Great Prophet was burned in to create a religion and obviously is off-limits to the Kongolese.
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Oct 31, 2016 18:30
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wyoak posted:I remember Civ V's AI being an unredeemable mess at launch, at least partly because it was pretty good in BTS so the contrast was glaring. VI's definitely needs tweaking but it's not worse than vanilla V's (I never played the expansions, maybe I'll fire up BNW to see what's up). The warmongering penalty should definitely be reduced globally and agendas are way too quick to kick in (I get it Kongo). There are some good ideas, I like Cassus Belli and agendas could theoretically give leaders the individual personalities they've been lacking since BTS, but basically the diplomacy game at this point is "delay the amount of time until someone pulls a 'surprise' war on you". The Civ VI AI barely bothers to upgrade its units and mostly runs away instead of actually fighting even when it has good odds, which is a marked step down from Civ V - at least post-expansions, I don't remember if it was much worse at launch. wyoak posted:Still, this one is a massive improvement over V in that going wide isn't punished which allows for actual variety in your play, Civ V's global happiness was an albatross on any other mechanics in the game. The main issue right now with VI is that building a squad of archers and taking a couple cities seems to always be the right play in the first 100 turns, but it opens up quite a bit after that I think. Also Scythia but yeah don't play as Scythia unless you're punching above your normal skill level. Magil Zeal posted:This is how it should be ("tall" being competitive with a large empire is a dumb idea that needed to die), but district building costs don't really scale with a large empire. More cities means more trade routes and more overlapping factory zones which nicely counteracts any district scaling. I would call this a gain rather than a loss. But they really should bring back some sort of production automation for those who get sick of managing a dozen+ cities. City governors were a thing in past Civ games and I don't see why they shouldn't return. I'm not sure if I follow how removing most penalties for building cities everywhere encourages variety in play, since it makes spamming cities everywhere the optimal strategy. The only real reason you have to ask yourself whether you want to build a new city now is a) can you defend it? (usually a minor concern) and b) can you be bothered to pour resources into it and get it productive before the game ends? Zigmidge posted:Yeah why can't we have these things from that other game with its own balance and design?!?? Yeah bro stop talking about that other game that this is a direct sequel to and shares many mechanics and probably a lot of the code base with. 
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Oct 31, 2016 18:36
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The fact is that going by beaker or hammer count between games is in no ways a reasonable comparison. Rushing wonders doesn't necessarily mean anything because of the power level variance between wonders in 5 and 6, and beaker count doesn't mean anything when all the techs in 6 can get 50% discounts. All you're doing is comparing bellyfeel on how powerful you think you are, which is determined by the context of like 8 other mechanics. Like, you would have to take into account that you get a fuckton more great people in 6 than in 5. In a recent game I would get three of them on the same turn every dozen turns
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Oct 31, 2016 18:40
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And also pushing for great people in V required opportunity costs in using specialists (which meant pushing food) to generate GPP, while in VI almost all +GPP sources are automatic and don't require a citizen, plus you can purchase them with both faith and gold
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Oct 31, 2016 18:43
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Trip reports on three civs so far: Russia: Tundra is king. Get the tundra pantheon and get +1 more faith from adjacent tundra. Then you can get +100% adjacency bonus, and those bonuses multiply if you build districts next to your holy sites (they're still tundra I think...). Basically I was drowning in faith the entire game, and tundra forests are surprisingly good resources with Peter's unique ability. His unique ability would allow me to catch up after focusing faith but I played this game on Prince before moving to King for the others so I was never really behind, the AI must not be good at micromanaging production / actions to influence eurekas. I was going for a religious victory and having fun battling with my apostles when I won a surprise culture victory, it turns out he generates a lot of great artists / writers / musicians with all those Lavras, I couldn't use the ones I was getting. Germany: Highlight is the Hansa, which craps out insane hammers. Every single one of my cities had a commercial / industrial hub system as close to mines as I could, with the double adjacency bonus I had tons of hammers. This meant I was short on science / culture but with all the production I just built a bunch of campuses and cultural sites. Had more fun interacting with unique city states (full housing for cities away from water? Yes please) than conquering them so I didn't use that, or the u-boat, but I definitely felt the extra district when I was catching up on science and culture. Ultimately won a space victory and was impressed by how much production they pumped out. Kongolese: Definitely my most fun game. I conquered Japan after they got feisty alone on our home continent. He attacked right when I got iron working for the unique unit and so I chased his army down through the rainforests like vengeful spirits. Once I conquered him I realized that as the Kongolese his holy site just... disappeared. Meaning I had zero religion and no civs nearby. Spent the entire game without any religious followers in any city, an atheist paradise! This meant I couldn't make use of the free Apostles from Mbanzas, which is a shame because Mbanzas loving rule. If you've played long enough you know how important neighborhoods get if you grow your cities big enough, but these always get a flat +5 housing, keep the jungle / forest for adjacency, and give free food and gold. I built about 10 of them over my huge continent - spanning empire. Extra resources from relics / sculptures / artifacts didn't come up much until I got archaeology, at which point my tourism went crazy and I was able to win an easy cultural victory. Overall three very fun games! Thinking I might try to do a religious victory next.
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Oct 31, 2016 18:44
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If you start at a later era, do the cities you found start with a bunch of buildings already built?
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Oct 31, 2016 18:49
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Alkydere posted:Does she need a holy site district, or a holy city? The former is just a district and even the Kongo can build those (and should to get faith to buy great people). The latter is a holy site that a Great Prophet was burned in to create a religion and obviously is off-limits to the Kongolese. Um, no they can't. Literally the first line in Mvemba's ability is that they can't build Holy Sites, and faith is thus actually sort of difficult to get in good quantity.
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Oct 31, 2016 18:56
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I went wide as heck and I became friends with the city-state that makes district bonuses spread to 9 tiles instead of 6 and then I built Big Ben from scratch in two turns. That was fun.
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Oct 31, 2016 19:02
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I guess the AI just compares numbers when it declares war on you. Brazil - who share my religion - just declared a holy war on me. They're genuinely using slingers and I've got modern armour and helicopters. They were down in about 5 turns. Why can't the AI upgrade their units? And why is it that when you build a wonder it doesn't loving tell you what it does?! I hate that I have to go to the civilopedia every time. I started it 30 turns ago, give me a reminder. Taear fucked around with this message at 19:05 on Oct 31, 2016 |
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Oct 31, 2016 19:03
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Taear posted:I guess the AI just compares numbers when it declares war on you. Brazil - who share my religion - just declared a holy war on me. They're genuinely using slingers and I've got modern armour and helicopters. I originally thought it was strategic resources (which are stupid, to be fair) but now I think it's just that they either never have any money or they have no real impetus to spend their money on upgrades. Is there any news on when the game might be moddable yet?
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Oct 31, 2016 19:05
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Gort posted:I originally thought it was strategic resources (which are stupid, to be fair) but now I think it's just that they either never have any money or they have no real impetus to spend their money on upgrades. As I posted earlier my map has 3 squares of oil on it. Three. There's maybe 6 aluminium. I've played 40 hours now and so far I've had one game where I discovered a resource and was actually near to it. There's definitely something up with the calculation.
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Oct 31, 2016 19:07
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Gully Foyle posted:Um, no they can't. Literally the first line in Mvemba's ability is that they can't build Holy Sites, and faith is thus actually sort of difficult to get in good quantity. Oh, I thought they just couldn't get Great Prophets. I haven't played with them so I didn't know. Taear posted:As I posted earlier my map has 3 squares of oil on it. Three. There's maybe 6 aluminium. I've played 40 hours now and so far I've had one game where I discovered a resource and was actually near to it. There's definitely something up with the calculation. My last game as Sparta I had 3 iron, 2 horses, 1 niter and 1 coal. So it really does come down to luck. Of course outside of some incredibly aggressive barb-farming for early game culture as Gorgo I really wasn't that war-like as I focused on tourism victory. Alkydere fucked around with this message at 19:16 on Oct 31, 2016 |
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Oct 31, 2016 19:14
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Does disabling religious victory also remove religions? I don't want to get a religious victory out of the blue, but I'm not about to deal with apostle spam all game when I have saladin as an early neighbor again. I'm converting that motherfucker, and if he converts the rest of the world well.... 
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Oct 31, 2016 19:17
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Alkydere posted:Oh, I thought they just couldn't get Great Prophets. I haven't played with them so I didn't know. The early ones are fine. Not abundant, but you can usually get some if you hustle. Uranium and Oil, though...
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Oct 31, 2016 19:19
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They seem to really like quantity over quality when it comes to armies, and it should be the opposite. Especially on higher difficulties when they have that small strength bonus an equally teched army could be way more of a challenge, but good luck finding an AI that actually pulls it off. I've seen it once, Germany declared on me and we both had mech infantry and attack helicopters and all that stuff, and it made the war much more tense. If I hadn't had a really solid choke point things could have been a lot scarier. They need to make them focus much more on upgrades (let them do it for free if that's what it takes) and have them combine into armies and corps regularly (which they do somewhat already). I think they also need to make them extremely pillage happy, because the AI is never going to be that great at taking cities. If they're pillaging everything they step on then at least they're doing some damage. As it stands war is just an experience farm that comes to you.
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Oct 31, 2016 19:22
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eXXon posted:I'm not sure if I follow how removing most penalties for building cities everywhere encourages variety in play, since it makes spamming cities everywhere the optimal strategy. The only real reason you have to ask yourself whether you want to build a new city now is a) can you defend it? (usually a minor concern) and b) can you be bothered to pour resources into it and get it productive before the game ends? I'm not sure if the issue with the CPU upgrading units is it being dumb or if it's related to the scarcity of resources - it seems ok at doing catapults into bombards and beyond, but it definitely has trouble with melee units and chariots. I'm going to try some later-era starts and see if the CPU is better at them, it might help out the AI if the archer-rush and unit upgrade issues are mitigated.
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Oct 31, 2016 19:24
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This is a huge change from the previous ones. I am finding it a bit of a mess to keep track of everything. Same kind of poo poo pisses me off, but maybe I just don't know how to deal with it. I guess I just wish I could line up the next move for a unit at the end of a turn so I don't have to revisit it later.
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Oct 31, 2016 19:28
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eXXon posted:Thanks for your compelling counterargument. Remind me again how an early great scientist that gives discounts to 1-2 techs is better than Civ V great scientists that let you build an academy early on and get thousands of beakers over the course of the game, or pick any random free tech often to advance an era over what would have otherwise taken 10-20 turns of research. Or Civ V great merchants that effectively give you more cash than many Civ VI merchants and free influence to boot (envoys). Friend if you don't know about the monster that is having 25+ Trading Routes thanks to Great People I don't know what to tell you. The Great People mechanics are a serious improvement over Civ5 as they are way more interactive, an actual challenge to get a lot of them and they offer way more variety than Civ5 ever did.
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Oct 31, 2016 19:29
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This game needs a reroll button in the menu, I'm tired of having to set poo poo up manually each time the game decides to spawn me in a terrible start location.
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Oct 31, 2016 19:32
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William Henry Hairytaint posted:They need to make them focus much more on upgrades (let them do it for free if that's what it takes) and have them combine into armies and corps regularly (which they do somewhat already). I think they also need to make them extremely pillage happy, because the AI is never going to be that great at taking cities. If they're pillaging everything they step on then at least they're doing some damage. As it stands war is just an experience farm that comes to you. The AI definitely makes loads of corps. Of course they're of spearmen and horsemen and slingers but they exist.
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Oct 31, 2016 19:35
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