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Nov 4, 2016 06:46
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Niwrad posted:I'm interested to see how they handle the offseason. I don't understand why people are so down on giving Fowler a long-term deal. Sure his days in CF might not last much longer but you can slot him into one of the corner outfield slots in a year or two. He has enough pop in the bat. Fowler is going to get paid, he made a huge impact with the Cubs this year. As much as I'd like to see him back, I understand the argument not to spend on him. Almora is waiting in the wings as a young, controllable CF for the foreseeable future, and while he doesn't have quite as much pop in his bat as of now he's got plenty of growing room. Meanwhile the Cubs are going to have a bit of a scramble come next off season, as they'll be losing 3/5ths of their starting rotation to FA (assuming they pick up Hammel's 2017 option, which is almost guaranteed) and will have to shell out another big ace contract if they want to keep Arrieta. There's also the question of emptying the wallet for one of the Chapman/Melancon/Jansen trio this off season. It's less of a big deal now that the Cubs have managed to win and the desperation levels have fallen, but it's still very possible. I think there's just too much cash needed to sure up the pitching over the next two years to go throwing the amount Fowler deserves his way.
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Nov 4, 2016 06:47
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Super Jay Mann posted:Wait I'm dumb I misread what the conversation was about. Well actually it started off with Zwabu asking if starting 3 games with an ace had ever worked out and gotten 3 wins, and that definitely did work out in the end for Arizona so it's at least half an example of what he's looking for. Just a different ace came into the last game later on and ended up with the official win, it isn't like Schilling was bad at all in that series.
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Nov 4, 2016 07:02
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Bumgarner in the 2016 playoffs: 14 innings (9 in the wildcard game)
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Nov 4, 2016 07:05
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How did I miss this thread all day? I've been in such a haze. Anyways that was in my humble goon Cubs opinion the greatest game 7 of the WS of all time. Great series all around. Now please pay Dexter Fowler the entire Illinois state budget next season (negative a billion).
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Nov 4, 2016 07:12
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My non-baseball friend is glad Sosa is finally getting a ring.Popete posted:Now please pay Dexter Fowler the entire Illinois state budget next season (negative a billion). Oh so what the Orioles wanted to pay him
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Nov 4, 2016 07:16
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The way Fowler has played (a full 1.4 WAR above any other year) you have to think he'll be demanding a contract that pays him through his age 35 or 36 season for I would assume an AAV above what he got this year so you're probably going to need a contract along the lines of 5/95 or 6/110 at minimum and that also assumes he doesn't try for Heyward or Cespedes money and look for 20M+ AAV. As far as the 2017 rotation, I already assume Arrieta is gone. As long as he doesn't tryhard himself into some injury and is at least at ~4 WAR form with similar postseason success thanks to salary inflation we could be looking at the first 40M AAV contract going to Jake since I don't really see any other true aces on the market for the post-2017 offseason. That may be a reason to open the wallet for him since the TV money/new channel or whatever will be right around the corner and the plaza across the street should be finished by then for more revenue, but I forsee the 2018-2021 Cubs being a team that will lean a lot harder on their bats and their positional defense versus having multiple dominant starters. I think if the Cubs pay for a closer this year it'll be either Chapman or Melancon since neither can get a QO. Give Hammel 10M for the year and see if he has anything left, ride Lackey into the sunset and maybe try to resign Cahill cheap again and see if you can stretch him and Zastryzny out into capable #4 and #5 starters for the future. CubsWoo fucked around with this message at 07:20 on Nov 4, 2016 |
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Nov 4, 2016 07:18
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Sydin posted:Fowler is going to get paid, he made a huge impact with the Cubs this year. As much as I'd like to see him back, I understand the argument not to spend on him. Almora is waiting in the wings as a young, controllable CF for the foreseeable future, and while he doesn't have quite as much pop in his bat as of now he's got plenty of growing room. Meanwhile the Cubs are going to have a bit of a scramble come next off season, as they'll be losing 3/5ths of their starting rotation to FA (assuming they pick up Hammel's 2017 option, which is almost guaranteed) and will have to shell out another big ace contract if they want to keep Arrieta. There's also the question of emptying the wallet for one of the Chapman/Melancon/Jansen trio this off season. It's less of a big deal now that the Cubs have managed to win and the desperation levels have fallen, but it's still very possible. I think there's just too much cash needed to sure up the pitching over the next two years to go throwing the amount Fowler deserves his way. On the other hand, their window is now and I'm not sure I'd feel terribly confident with Almora starting in CF everyday. You're talking about a huge offensive dropoff and leaving the Cubs without a guy who can get on base at the top of the lineup. Fowler is already making $13m and if that jumps to $20m, I don't think that's a huge issue. I just think he's so important to what they do. It's weird but the Cubs actually have a bunch of money coming off the books this year. $18 or so million from Ross, Coghlan, Wood, and Cahill. Plus whatever they were picking up on Chapman and Smith. And they also have $12 million they were still paying Edwin Jackson this year. They could also free up another $10 million by trading Hammel. I don't know what they'll do but they shouldn't be cash-strapped. They should have around $30-40 million off the books this year and only real need is a Fowler replacement and bullpen. Maybe they're saving up for another big starter but couldn't they just use the $26 million they're currently paying Arrieta and Lackey to either bring Arrieta back or find another top of the rotation guy?
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Nov 4, 2016 07:18
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You can't count all that money coming off this year because you have to assume that Grimm, Rondon, Strop and Jake will all get raises in arbitration and Szczur, Montgomery, Baez, Schwarber, Russell, La Stella, Hendricks and Bryant are all pre-arb and a few of those will probably also get a pay bump. I suppose in an ideal world you give Fowler 5/100 or thereabouts and guarantee him through the end of the 2021 season when the team probably blows up since everyone on the 25-man not named Almora, Contreras or Heyward is entering free agency but I do think decisions need to be made about whether or not you start trading pieces because there is going to be a huge logjam in the dugout. Assuming the Cubs carry 12 pitchers, who gets left out? Contreras (2 options) Montero (Can refuse options) Baez (2 options) Bryant (3 options) La Stella (2 options, but are you trying your luck with that again? Also he's essentially untradeable) Rizzo (Can refuse options) Russell (3 options) Zobrist (Can refuse options) Almora Jr (2 options) Heyward (Can refuse options) Soler (1 option) Szczur (0 options) Schwarber (2 options) That's 13 position players so you're fine if you don't bring back Coghlan or Fowler - but if you do you've got to send 1 or 2 of the above to Iowa in their place. This also assumes other 40-man talents like Mune, Candelario, Villanueva and Federowicz don't edge out anyone currently on the 25-man. If Fowler's back I guess Almora heads to Iowa, but given how he was used in the postseason I have a feeling Soler is being looked at as winter meetings trade bait for some kind of cost controlled pitching or as part of a package deal. As far as the pitching goes - assuming Hammel is bought out(but I think they take him for 10M) : Lester (Can refuse options) Hendricks (3 options) Arrieta (Can refuse options) Lackey (Can refuse options) Montgomery (0 options) Edwards (1 option) Grimm (Can refuse options) Rondon (0 options) Strop (0 options) ------------------------WS 25-man ends here Zastryzny (3 options) Patton (1 option) Pena (3 options) Beeler (1 option) Brooks (1 option) Buchanan (1 option, can refuse an outright) Concepcion (1 option) Mullee (2 options) Patton (1 option) Pena (1 option) Rosscup (1 option, must clear waivers) Acevedo (3 options) Johnson (2 options) CubsWoo fucked around with this message at 07:55 on Nov 4, 2016 |
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Nov 4, 2016 07:27
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Also why does it feel like Rich Hill is the best starter of this free agent class and how much is he going to get paid for an age 37 season where his 110 innings of work this year was his second largest workload in his 12 year career and I don't know if you would pencil him in for more than that. Beyond Hill you maybe have Cashner as a reclamation project and Hellickson who is good but the Phils are almost guaranteed to slap a QO on him. Maybe Nova too? CubsWoo fucked around with this message at 08:12 on Nov 4, 2016 |
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Nov 4, 2016 08:00
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TMMadman posted:Bumgarner in the 2016 playoffs: 14 innings (9 in the wildcard game) Not his fault he couldn't also be the closer. 
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Nov 4, 2016 08:14
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CubsWoo posted:Also why does it feel like Rich Hill is the best starter of this free agent class and how much is he going to get paid for an age 37 season where his 110 innings of work this year was his second largest workload in his 12 year career and I don't know if you would pencil him in for more than that. Don't know what the gently caress you're talking about Bartolo is a FA and that's ace quality pitching + home run power ripe for the taking  Niwrad posted:On the other hand, their window is now and I'm not sure I'd feel terribly confident with Almora starting in CF everyday. You're talking about a huge offensive dropoff and leaving the Cubs without a guy who can get on base at the top of the lineup. Fowler is already making $13m and if that jumps to $20m, I don't think that's a huge issue. I just think he's so important to what they do. No way the Cubs don't pick up Hammel's option. $10m for a solid back of the rotation starter who pitches like an ace for the first half of the season? Yes please. Again, I'm not adverse to picking up Fowler. I'm just saying I imagine the organization is going to place a higher priority on arms than bats. The bullpen is going to need work, and we've got one more year before some big decisions need to be made about the rotation. Also if the Cubs go all in on Fowler than the might as well package Almora in a trade for some pitching because he's got nothing left to learn in AAA and would be position blocked by Dex.
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Nov 4, 2016 08:18
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https://np.reddit.com/r/HighQualityGifs/comments/5appou/been_a_long_time_fan_kent_long_time_fan/ The .gifv is over 100MB so I'm going to link where it came from instead of it potentially autoplaying CubsWoo fucked around with this message at 08:21 on Nov 4, 2016 |
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Nov 4, 2016 08:19
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Sydin posted:No way the Cubs don't pick up Hammel's option. $10m for a solid back of the rotation starter who pitches like an ace for the first half of the season? Yes please. They'll definitely pick up Hammel's option, I just think he'll be traded. As mentioned, the free agent pitching market is garbage and you'd probably get more for someone like Hammel than normal. Theo has never been someone who spends big bucks on bullpen arms which is why I don't see it likely he gives up $20m or whatever for Chapman/Jensen. As for Almora, I don't think you need to rush him into a starting CF spot. He's only 22 years old. And I'd disagree about him having nothing left to learn at AAA. While he hit for a decent average in Iowa, his walk rate is still abysmal. I still think he's a year or two away from being an everyday player. And if you want him at the ML level, he'll still get decent playing time. Dexter isn't playing all 162, Schwarber isn't playing against lefties (or playing late with a lead), and Heyward needs days off. He'd still probably get 350 plate appearances as a backup.
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Nov 4, 2016 09:26
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Kevlar v2.0 posted:This one? I don't see the "oh my god" part, but it was in the 10th at 3rd base. someone turn this into an avatar and figure out a good title, because I want this Kevlar v2.0 posted:Found it! Or this one Or one of bryant collapsing, smiling after tossing the final out to rizzo
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Nov 4, 2016 09:28
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CubsWoo posted:The way Fowler has played (a full 1.4 WAR above any other year) you have to think he'll be demanding a contract that pays him through his age 35 or 36 season for I would assume an AAV above what he got this year so you're probably going to need a contract along the lines of 5/95 or 6/110 at minimum and that also assumes he doesn't try for Heyward or Cespedes money and look for 20M+ AAV. I don't know if any of the concern about money is warranted given that a winning team (better yet, a dynasty  ) is a goldmine. Anyways, I don't know about Cahill as a starter (again.) Maybe, and Z probably, but don't leave out Montgomery! Sure, that would weaken the bullpen but I still think he's more valuable as a starter.Abel Wingnut posted:anyone know where i can watch the game again? i swear i'm going to watch it like every month til the day i die How about the condensed game? http://m.mlb.com/video/v1211075283?game_pk=487637
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Nov 4, 2016 09:49
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Someone please get a parade picture of Kawasaki
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Nov 4, 2016 13:52
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Grittybeard posted:Depends on how you feel about pitching before they lowered the mound. Found this, which says 12 pitchers have done it with the last being Mickey Lolich in 1968, which was the year before the mound was lowered. Lolich didn't start game 1, 4 and 7, if memory serves. Gibson won games 1 & 4 that series and pitched a complete Game in 7, losing on an error from Curt Flood in CF I'm pretty sure. Gibson was the last pitcher to successfully start and win games 1, 4 & 7 in a world series, 1967. For what it's worth, Bob Gibson pitched in 3 World Series, pitched in 3 games apiece, averaging 9 innings in each game. He pitched 3 complete games at 9 innings apiece in 1967 and 1968 and pitched 8 innings in Game 2, 10 innings in Game 5 and 9 in Game 7. In his World Series career he was 7-2 with a 1.89 ERA. He was the '64 and '67 World Series MVP and would have been the MVP in '68 had they won Game 7. There's a reason they call them the "Gibson Rules".
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Nov 4, 2016 13:52
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And, in response, the Ricketts gave him 1 million loving dollars. I guess my praise of their development of the team was the wrong approach.
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Nov 4, 2016 13:58
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Angels fans, what can you tell me about Victor Alcantara? Cam 
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Nov 4, 2016 14:03
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Yeah, Theo's in kind of a conundrum here in a year or two with the pitching staff. The core of the offense is there and we're fine that way. It's so good that we can even have a guy like Heyward who was statistically the 3rd-worst offensive player in all of baseball and still be ok. I hope after the WS he sees the advantages of having a lockdown bullpen. What I wouldn't give for Cleveland's pen. I know there's not much in the FA market, but do we have enough in the farm to not completely deplete it but still trade for maybe some high-potential but yet unproven guys who could turn into dominant relievers? We've got a little bit of a foundation already. Montgomery can be a very good piece, but it sounds like he'll be in the rotation if Hammel doesn't come back. Edwards is already a strong piece, we all know Strop can be, and if Rondon ever sees a proctologist to get his head out of his rear end, he can be a big part of it too.
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Nov 4, 2016 14:22
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Niwrad posted:I'm interested to see how they handle the offseason. I don't understand why people are so down on giving Fowler a long-term deal. Sure his days in CF might not last much longer but you can slot him into one of the corner outfield slots in a year or two. He has enough pop in the bat. probably because they have this young kid named Schwarber who literally cannot stand anywhere other than left field and Heyward who is on a long term deal.
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Nov 4, 2016 14:45
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Regarding QOs, isn't there a decent chance that they are changed in this new CBA? Also given the returns the Yankees got for Miller and Chapman, I can definitely see a team (maybe the Yankees???!!!) deciding to just say "gently caress it" on losing the draft pick since you can trade the guy for multiple top-end prospects later if you have to. Inspector_666 fucked around with this message at 14:55 on Nov 4, 2016 |
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Nov 4, 2016 14:53
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This article I thought nailed what's bugged me all season and what lead to me wanting the Indians to win--the whole "false underdog" thing http://deadspin.com/the-cubs-dont-have-to-pretend-to-be-lovable-losers-anym-1788534327 quote:Rooting for the Cubs to win the World Series isn’t—has never been—rooting for Charlie Brown to finally kick the football; it’s rooting for the Death Star to finally blow up the Rebel base. Congratulations! The Rebellion is in ashes now. You did it!
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Nov 4, 2016 15:15
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Inspector_666 posted:Regarding QOs, isn't there a decent chance that they are changed in this new CBA? It sounds like changing the QO is the players' number 1 priority after all the usual stuff (major league minimums and super 2 qualifications, for starters). What's weird is that the QO is a much bigger gambit for teams than arbitration and it potentially hurts teams less than the old A/B compensation system but for some reason it's hurting players more than the old system.
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Nov 4, 2016 15:18
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The only change they really need to make to the QO is to make it work like RFA does in the NBA: Once the team offers it, it has to always be out there for the player to accept if the team wants to retain the benefits they get from it, but the team can also rescind it if they want to (at which point they cannot offer it to that player again).
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Nov 4, 2016 15:31
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MLB.com has a parade feed up.
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Nov 4, 2016 15:45
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Nevermind.
tadashi fucked around with this message at 15:58 on Nov 4, 2016 |
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Nov 4, 2016 15:51
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Should we move parade/rally talk to another thread?
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Nov 4, 2016 16:02
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Waffles Inc. posted:This article I thought nailed what's bugged me all season and what lead to me wanting the Indians to win--the whole "false underdog" thing This is such a strawman though: nobody thought the Cubs were underdogs (just look at the Vegas lines). What people thought is that they had been historically completely inept, which is of course true, and that winning would be a huge accomplishment for a pretty crap franchise, which is also true. I'm not even a Cubs fan, but this line of thinking is nonsense.
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Nov 4, 2016 16:02
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https://twitter.com/johnsheldon99/status/794554265305948160 Ha
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Nov 4, 2016 16:04
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Shwarber, Russell, and Fowler are all on MLBN now and they're all adorable.
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Nov 4, 2016 16:08
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Popero posted:This is such a strawman though: nobody thought the Cubs were underdogs (just look at the Vegas lines). What people thought is that they had been historically completely inept, which is of course true, and that winning would be a huge accomplishment for a pretty crap franchise, which is also true. I'm not even a Cubs fan, but this line of thinking is nonsense. To make this argument: quote:this is baloney! The Cubs aren’t, and never have been, the little guy. Not in Major League Baseball, and not even in their own town. They’re a big, strong, abundantly advantaged organization, blessed with avenues to success that genuinely burdened organizations like the friggin’ Tampa Bay Rays will never have. Is to not understand how the Cubs were run for 30-something years. Under the Tribune ownership and then especially under Zell, the people with the purse strings thought they knew more about how to run a baseball team than the baseball management people they hired. It's how they chased off one of the best GM in the team's history (Green) and then kept the team cannibalizing itself at the end. The team only focused on player development or only focused on signing free agents. They could have spent a lot more on free agents than they did in the 90s and a lot more on player development than they did in the early 2000s. We were lucky that Jim Hendry's knack for finding talent worked for the team for a while (and that goes back to MacPhail's era).
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Nov 4, 2016 16:12
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Inspector_666 posted:Shwarber, Russell, and Fowler are all on MLBN now and they're all adorable. Addy's kid 
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Nov 4, 2016 16:13
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tadashi posted:Should we move parade/rally talk to another thread? I don't know that there's a whole lot of news to talk about but if you want to create a gameday thread for it I'm sure there will be plenty of activity. e: I put an off-season schedule in the OP for anyone wondering about dates. IcePhoenix fucked around with this message at 16:22 on Nov 4, 2016 |
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Nov 4, 2016 16:19
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There are crazy people jumping in a mud pit in Grant Park. Wtf people pull it together
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Nov 4, 2016 16:29
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Some real quality reporting there
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Nov 4, 2016 16:36
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Good shot of String Bean hopefully on Tinder.
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Nov 4, 2016 16:37
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Virigoth posted:There are crazy people jumping in a mud pit in Grant Park. Wtf people pull it together He did get $75 for it.
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Nov 4, 2016 16:39
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Been meaning to ask: how long has that Go Cubs Go song been around? I went to a bunch of games there during the 90s and don't remember it at all.
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Nov 4, 2016 16:47
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