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Periodiko posted:This is the same logic that concluded Trump couldn't mobilize white voters. Obama was a great candidate, but he also had a great message that resonated broadly. Instead, we nominated a bad candidate with a bad message, and we're blaming dehumanized masses for the failure. Really? I didn't realize stronger together is a bad message. I didn't realize higher minimum wage, more paid leave, and free college were bad messages. Guess my understanding of progressivism is all wrong, clearly I don't hate immigrants enough. Ornedan posted:You, overall, voted for the only option that acknowledged the issue exists and is worth fixing. That Trump's solution is unrealistic bullshit might have mattered if the media did it's job and actually informed people. But the media didn't, so as far as those voters know it'll all be good. I do agree that the media is hugely responsible here, yes. They deserve what they get under Trump. Korelle posted:I agree. Jumping to "Bernie would have won" is a mistake. He didn't run for personal reasons though. And he's all the same neoliberal conservatism we keep railing against. I guess it's ok when it's a guy tho huh
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Nov 9, 2016 16:50
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Its not a Republican super majority in the Senate so Democrats still have the filibuster . Unless the Republicans get rid of that.
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Nov 9, 2016 16:51
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Hollismason posted:Its not a Republican super majority in the Senate so Democrats still have the filibuster . Unless the Republicans get rid of that. They don't need a supermajority to wipe the filibuster. That'll be gone come Congress coming back into session.
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Nov 9, 2016 16:50
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Hollismason posted:Its not a Republican super majority in the Senate so Democrats still have the filibuster . Unless the Republicans get rid of that. That's gone tomorrow.
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Nov 9, 2016 16:50
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Which they will assuredly.
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Nov 9, 2016 16:51
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Also this is probably the end of the Clintons forever. They've dominated American politics for nearly thirty years and just like that, poof.
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Nov 9, 2016 16:51
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Your Lizard Queen is about to speak. Cast her down. Say you knew all along. Its all her fault. Any chance this place will be a little more bipartisan or will it maintain the spread of a BLM campus meet?
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Nov 9, 2016 16:51
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nimh posted:Your Lizard Queen is about to speak. my dude, have you not been reading d&d this morning at all
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Nov 9, 2016 16:52
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nimh posted:Your Lizard Queen is about to speak. You're such a prick. Gosh excuse me for not entertaining such vaunted conservative ideals like "blue lives matter" or "build the wall."
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Nov 9, 2016 16:52
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Lightning Knight posted:You're such a prick. You're excused. Just be nicer to the people who bring them up next time!
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Nov 9, 2016 16:53
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gently caress. I guess the best we can hope for is a repeat of the Bush years. Dammit. gently caress it, let's organize.
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Nov 9, 2016 16:55
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Lmao Smith & Wesson's stock has fallen 10%
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Nov 9, 2016 16:55
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Does anyone have that Vince Mcmahon gif of the election results coming in? That was the only thing that put a smile on my face all night.
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Nov 9, 2016 16:56
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Jeff the Mediocre posted:gently caress. I guess the best we can hope for is a repeat of the Bush years. Behind who?
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Nov 9, 2016 16:56
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There goes half the forum on a Toxx bet So, your dude won - what's next, Trump voters? What were your reasons?
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Nov 9, 2016 16:57
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Periodiko posted:Here's a more interesting question: why did institutions like the media lose the trust of so many people in the first place. Be careful, you have to treat the public as human beings to find an answer. Lightning Knight posted:Look at how poorly minorities respond to Bernie, a candidate who dismisses BLM and has advocated for keeping Mexican immigrants out in the past. If the Dems run on that platform minorities start abandoning them in droves and white working class people will stifle all race issues with "no war but the class war." Like, after the primary that was taken as a validation of identity politics and as evidence that class politics don't have a place in the Democratic party. Yes, the Democratic platform did adopt many policies steeped in that, but the voting public generally doesn't take that very seriously because they perceive (often wrongly, I acknowledge this) that the platform is meaningless anyway. Hillary did not run a campaign based to any large degree on class consciousness, and frankly I'm not sure she could have even if she wanted to. I didn't personally mind that class took a back seat to race in this election because I knew that Hillary was pretty left-wing, that the DNC platform was very progressive already, and so on. But then we lost the election and welp. It seems like class has to fit into how the Democrats speak to the electorate, or they're going to keep losing. Do you see this as identity politics having to "make room", and if so do you think that's unfair or wrong (or maybe, that it just wouldn't work)?
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Nov 9, 2016 16:57
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FizFashizzle posted:Also this is probably the end of the Clintons forever. This is a good thing. I've grown to like Hillary over the course of the election as I've learned more about her (and how loving lovely this country is in its treatment of her as a person and a woman) but Bill sucks rear end and the coalition of neoliberals they built up that ran the DNC has been garbage since 2000. They should have been gone when Obama won and the writing was on the wall that people didn't want the same old poo poo. Armani posted:There goes half the forum on a Toxx bet I'm not gonna lie some of the really bullish Hillary fans from the primaries needed some reality. I got caught up in it as well I will admit.
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Nov 9, 2016 16:57
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sexy loving muskrat posted:Lmao Smith & Wesson's stock has fallen 10%
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Nov 9, 2016 16:57
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Korelle posted:I agree. Jumping to "Bernie would have won" is a mistake. Now let me tell you how Biden should have been the nominee...
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Nov 9, 2016 16:57
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Armani posted:There goes half the forum on a Toxx bet Mods don't want this forum any more dead, so they're offering an out by having folks donate their ban fee to RAINN. http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3797259
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Nov 9, 2016 16:58
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your message means nothing without charisma
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Nov 9, 2016 16:59
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Hollismason posted:Its not a Republican super majority in the Senate so Democrats still have the filibuster . The Democrats gleefully got rid of it a few years ago (to many liberal articles about how it was a good thing because the filibuster was bad anyway). The Republicans will now do the same (and liberal writers will say the opposite of what they said before).
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Nov 9, 2016 16:59
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In 2008 I thought President Obama was heralding a new age in which white men's control over government was not always absolute. Now I see however it was only an extraordinary outlier and the GOP will rule until the heat death of the universe.spacetoaster posted:The Democrats gleefully got rid of it a few years ago (to many liberal articles about how it was a good thing because the filibuster was bad anyway). The Republicans will now do the same (and liberal writers will say the opposite of what they said before). Yeah I can't wait until I start getting e-mail from the DNC headlined "Save the Fillibuster!!" 
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Nov 9, 2016 16:59
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Kilroy posted:It seems like class has to fit into how the Democrats speak to the electorate, or they're going to keep losing. Do you see this as identity politics having to "make room", and if so do you think that's unfair or wrong (or maybe, that it just wouldn't work)? I think the brogressive plan of emphasizing white working class grievances will fail because a) white liberals and progressives would jettison PoC and women's issues in a heartbeat if they could and b) white working class grievances include "gently caress Mexicans."
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Nov 9, 2016 16:59
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By the way I've said it like a billion times but there's going to be an expansion of the SCOTUS sometime in the next 20 years I bet. It might be from the Democrats gaining control of government and ramming it through, or it might be from the GOP anticipating this and beating them to the punch, but it's gonna happen.
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Nov 9, 2016 17:00
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Lightning Knight posted:Really? I didn't realize stronger together is a bad message. I didn't realize higher minimum wage, more paid leave, and free college were bad messages. Guess my understanding of progressivism is all wrong, clearly I don't hate immigrants enough. Earlier you said that Trump voters blamed immigrants and the Chinese for problems instead of white rich people. Hey: from their perspective, Hillary and Bill Clinton are the rich white people. Silicon Valley and New York finance are the rich white people. The Bushes are those rich white people. You're refusing to understand the reasons this happened, then condemning what happened for having nonsensical reasons. You don't need to convince rabid Klan-sympathizing racists to vote Democrat. You need to convince ignorant, poor white people who are voting against their own interests to vote Democrat. This is something that Democrats can do and have done, historically, and it's something they need to do if they want to win elections again. Or you can just accept that Michigan and Pennsylvania are now red states. How's that gonna work, you think?
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Nov 9, 2016 17:02
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Armani posted:There goes half the forum on a Toxx bet Nah, the toxx is out (just this once! lol).
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Nov 9, 2016 17:02
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Hello USPol. You might remember me from previous threads and only making dumb joke posts. Or you might not. Whatever. The point is politics isn't funny anymore and I need a break from it.
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Nov 9, 2016 17:04
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Kilroy posted:By the way I've said it like a billion times but there's going to be an expansion of the SCOTUS sometime in the next 20 years I bet. I could possibly see this passing if it comes in a president's second term and the expansion takes place during the next presidential term. That seems like a fine compromise.
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Nov 9, 2016 17:04
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I find myself comparing this election result to 1980 and Reagan vs Carter. The US population still wants to be lied to, especially the parts of it that will show up and vote. Of course voter suppression no doubt contributed to (but somehow that's not vote rigging) so the question becomes this. How could a hypothetical Bernie or Biden run triumph against the tsunami of lies that came about? That people referred to him as a 'Blue Collar Billionaire' is proof enough that reality had broken for many of the electorate. Do you really think that the media would not have acted in the same manner? Do you really think that there wouldn't be stories fabricated from whole cloth about how terrible they were? Do you not remember what happened the last time Biden ran? The big difference IMO between this and 2000 is that we mostly thought that W would be nothing of real note and congress didn't have the 'Freedom Caucus' in it. Nowadays though all bets are off.
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Nov 9, 2016 17:05
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Teddybear posted:Mods don't want this forum any more dead, so they're offering an out by having folks donate their ban fee to RAINN. This is cool and good. Radish posted:I'm not gonna lie some of the really bullish Hillary fans from the primaries needed some reality. I got caught up in it as well I will admit. what's bullish in this case? I have a blind spot because I live in Trump-heavy areas. I've never actually seen anyone be a 'Shillary' offline. Question is still open to the floor - I'm really curious about the reasons for voting for Trump, specifically, without the veneer of C-SPAM on it.
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Nov 9, 2016 17:04
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Lightning Knight posted:I think the brogressive plan of emphasizing white working class grievances will fail because a) white liberals and progressives would jettison PoC and women's issues in a heartbeat if they could and b) white working class grievances include "gently caress Mexicans." The great thing about "eat the rich" is that it resonates with poor people regardless of color.
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Nov 9, 2016 17:05
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Periodiko posted:Earlier you said that Trump voters blamed immigrants and the Chinese for problems instead of white rich people. Hey: from their perspective, Hillary and Bill Clinton are the rich white people. Silicon Valley and New York finance are the rich white people. The Bushes are those rich white people. Trump is also a rich white dude. Hm. What is the difference again? Was it hateful rhetoric against minorities? I legit think PA and MI are lost causes and the Dems are hosed for a generation dude. We're not gonna win mid terms and they'll have incumbent advantage in 2020. They're also going to rip the VRA into shreds. We're really hosed dude. Really really hosed.
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Nov 9, 2016 17:06
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FizFashizzle posted:Also this is probably the end of the Clintons forever. Trump destroyed the Bush family politically as well.
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Nov 9, 2016 17:08
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Hollismason posted:Its not a Republican super majority in the Senate so Democrats still have the filibuster . Unless the Republicans get rid of that. Remember when the democrats were talking about doing the same thing if they won?
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Nov 9, 2016 17:07
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ThePeavstenator posted:The great thing about "eat the rich" is that it resonates with poor people regardless of color. A poor white will cut off his toe if it means a poor black loses a foot.
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Nov 9, 2016 17:08
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Armani posted:This is cool and good. I mean the people who claimed Hillary was basically going to walk into the White House. Like I said I bought into it too eventually, it got pretty strong.
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Nov 9, 2016 17:08
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ThePeavstenator posted:The great thing about "eat the rich" is that it resonates with poor people regardless of color. This won't help you if minority voters stay home. They might not go R but they might not show up either. We take minority voters for granted too you know.
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Nov 9, 2016 17:08
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DARPA posted:Trump destroyed the Bush family politically as well. Nah there's plenty more bushes coming up the pipe.
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Nov 9, 2016 17:10
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Nelson Mandingo posted:While I am extremely disappointed in the Trump win, I actually am sort of proud of America honestly. Establishment, markets, wallstreet, and all the other monied interests were rooting for a Clinton win. She outspent him 15 to 1. And that didn't happen. Huh. You're absolutely right. e: which is funny because in the end trump will only serve to benefit the establishment as their puppet FourLeaf fucked around with this message at 17:17 on Nov 9, 2016 |
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Nov 9, 2016 17:10
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