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If you want a legit autopsy it's this: people wanted to break the system because they were frustrated that cost of living kept rising (including but not limited to healthcare costs) and wages were somewhere between stagnant and declining. No matter what happens that poo poo is not going to change in the next two years because the gop is fundamentally unable to enact the structural change required to stop it. Highlight this poo poo, run on it, and embrace it. Clinton is dead and gone, so take advantage of that poo poo instead of mourning it. Don't worry about tammy loving duckworth or keith loving ellison or whoever being the next Obama or Bernie because Obama and Bernie came up organically and you can't manufacture that. Take the time to shut up and listen to poor rural whites, because they have plenty of grievances that line up with poor minorities and the gop/trump are already putting them on mute. Sit down, talk to rural poor whites, validate their concerns (because their concerns are loving valid), and talk about how liberal/socialist policies can help them in their specific situation. Are you going to sweep rural poor whites? Hell no. But if you pick off 15% of them your face won't be used to wipe the loving floor in WI, PA, and MI like it was last night. You'll win governorships, senate seats, house races, state legislature seats, and alderman spots, and your Obamas and Bernies will bubble up naturally. Don't force this poo poo, because forced is what brought us HRC and organic is what brought us Obama and Bernie. I'd also say don't prop up a couple who is under FBI investigation and is known to make choices that are legally okay but optically terrible, but Obama is Mr. Clean, the Clintons are dead and gone, and there won't be another player with that much internal power until you win the presidency again lmao.
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Nov 10, 2016 05:39
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Necc0 posted:a campaign doesn't get second chances what's funny is that the clinton campaign from 2008 basically got a second chance. and they made some of the same old mistakes while also making new and interesting ones. Oh, our chief strategist in 2008 was an incompetent moron? I guess next time we don't have a chief strategist, and we just have a committee of consultants headed up by some data fetishist who worships at the feet of a goddamn supercomputer running a flawed simulation model.
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Nov 10, 2016 05:39
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Loser candidate. Low energy. Couldn't rally the young people.
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Nov 10, 2016 05:42
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A GIANT PARSNIP posted:If you want a legit autopsy it's this: people wanted to break the system because they were frustrated that cost of living kept rising (including but not limited to healthcare costs) and wages were somewhere between stagnant and declining. No matter what happens that poo poo is not going to change in the next two years because the gop is fundamentally unable to enact the structural change required to stop it. Highlight this poo poo, run on it, and embrace it. Clinton is dead and gone, so take advantage of that poo poo instead of mourning it. I want to bold this because it is 100% right and the point of what many of us are saying when we talk about grabbing rural whites. People keep acting like we're talking about grabbing literally the entire demographic. We're not. We're talking about selling our policies effectively to grab enough share to make an actual difference in voting.
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Nov 10, 2016 05:44
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A GIANT PARSNIP posted:If you want a legit autopsy it's this: people wanted to break the system because they were frustrated that cost of living kept rising (including but not limited to healthcare costs) and wages were somewhere between stagnant and declining. No matter what happens that poo poo is not going to change in the next two years because the gop is fundamentally unable to enact the structural change required to stop it. Highlight this poo poo, run on it, and embrace it. Clinton is dead and gone, so take advantage of that poo poo instead of mourning it. maybe economic populism from the left might actually work nowadays
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Nov 10, 2016 05:45
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the 2020 democratic primary will probably be between Tim Kaine and Gavin Newsom 
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Nov 10, 2016 05:45
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A GIANT PARSNIP posted:If you want a legit autopsy it's this: people wanted to break the system because they were frustrated that cost of living kept rising (including but not limited to healthcare costs) and wages were somewhere between stagnant and declining. No matter what happens that poo poo is not going to change in the next two years because the gop is fundamentally unable to enact the structural change required to stop it. Highlight this poo poo, run on it, and embrace it. Clinton is dead and gone, so take advantage of that poo poo instead of mourning it. this, listen to the working class. writing an entire section of the population off is a terrible idea.
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Nov 10, 2016 05:47
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I'm thinking it might be the economy, stupid?
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Nov 10, 2016 05:50
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Furthermore, it's antithetical to the ideals of the American republic, let alone as the founding fathers intended it. It's literally un-American
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Nov 10, 2016 05:49
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At the end of the day, Clinton didn't reach out to anyone but DNC attendees and New Yorkers, while Trump was all over the place, which is why he has support from all kinds of groups he's supposedly going to deport
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Nov 10, 2016 05:50
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HannibalBarca posted:You've got to be loving kidding me. I wish Thundercracker posted:Did the DNC not just ..... arggh.. just not pay attention to loving anything? "Trump will turn them out for us" and "Disenfranchisement is overstated" The polls showed this. To bad all the polls were completely loving wrong lmao. Oh Snapple! posted:VS I can't remember if we've interacted poorly in the past but you seem like you worked hard and I'm sorry that work was directed so incompetently. Iv had a lot of hate throne my way by bernie friends angry about how huge of a gently caress up this was but I even though I feel bitter at times I'll never return that hate. To me everyone on the left is an ally and I hope we work together. One of the big problems with discourse on the left is the automatic assumption of malice. God help us all we need to be united now in unfucking things more than ever.
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Nov 10, 2016 05:52
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mrmcd posted:The rust belt was just as lovely economically in 2012. Republicans put up someone who came off like everyone's rear end in a top hat boss, sang his praises about what a skilled technocrat he was, and told people to hold their nose and vote for him. and instead they voted for the sleazy boss that tells you, if you sell out your solidarity to fellow members of the working class, i can make you rich someone post that political cartoon of the boss going to a bunch of workers of different races telling them they work harder than others
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Nov 10, 2016 05:55
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let us make accelerationist orangeade from these oranges. all indications are that trump will be an unmitigated disaster, and we're getting bush era trickle down economics. trump will welch on the working class like he always does. he cant help it now is a good time to start organising for 2018. i dont see why you should accept that it'll be another landslide like 2010 and 2014, why not like 2006?
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Nov 10, 2016 05:58
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Mrit posted:gently caress weak willed centrists. Never again. 
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Nov 10, 2016 05:57
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Venom Snake posted:I wish Neoliberals aren't leftists dude. They're merely the Blue-painted version of neoconversatives, with some disgusting levels of patronizing thrown in if you happen to not be white
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Nov 10, 2016 05:59
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Mrit posted:Back in 2006, I was angry. Angry at the Republicans, angry at the weakness of the Dems. I was hard left, and wanted to destroy the current government. Let's try my man. For real.
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Nov 10, 2016 05:59
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Bro Dad posted:the 2020 democratic primary will probably be between Tim Kaine and Gavin Newsom Yea and in november 2012 we were asking which of christie, rubio, bush, or paul would be the 2016 nominee. Stop loving focusing on which messenger you hope will be closest to Obama and try adjusting the loving message. Trump is an idiot but even he was able to grasp that there's a populist economic message that people are dying to hear. There's a 0% chance that trump and the gop are actually gonna fix anything that made rural whites so frustrated to begin with. You can write them off as racist idiots or you can engage them and realize that yes some are indeed racist idiots but there's also many that are just frustrated with their lot in life and are looking for things to get better, just like most loving people. The poor rural whites of Oklahoma and West Virginia were once the vanguard of American Socialism and many of them loving died at the barrels of US Army guns fighting for American Socialism, but somewhere along the way we've all forgotten about that poo poo and decided that every single one of them are racist idiots who have no value.
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Nov 10, 2016 06:00
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I'm not sure I agree that Obama walks away from this irrelevant or giving up. What is he supposed to do? Enact martial law and ignore the results of the election? He remains incredibly popular, he is young, and he's not tied in with the DNC people that everyone seems to hate for the last 10 years.
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Nov 10, 2016 06:02
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Bro Dad posted:the 2020 democratic primary will probably be between Tim Kaine and Gavin Newsom You're way of thinking is the reason the Dems lost the election dude
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Nov 10, 2016 06:03
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how are we actually supposed to appeal to working class whites? like we keep telling them the rich and their shills in washington are ruining everything and they don't listen because it must be the mexicans or we're taxing the rich too muchor something? IDGI
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Nov 10, 2016 06:03
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Kithkar posted:Am I insane or is this actually not a bad choice at all, given everything that's happened? Give Bernie the DNC and let him push the party to the left, but Franken could actually be a good choice for 2020. He's pretty liberal, and isn't seen as a Hillaryman so adopting the Bernie platform wouldn't look disingenuous, he can counter Trump being Trump by being genuinely engaging and funny, and he's from the rust belt and knows their issues intimately. The best part about Bernie for chair is it's frankly something we can actually work towards. Contact the committee members for your state and yell at them about it until the new pick. It's probably a longshot but it'll feel good to be trying to accomplish SOMETHING.
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Nov 10, 2016 06:04
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Pomp posted:how are we actually supposed to appeal to working class whites? do what bernie sanders did. not rocket science.
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Nov 10, 2016 06:04
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:If Democrats are going to swing hard to the left, then they may want to consider courting Rocky Anderson as a 2020 nominee. i like the cut of ur jib
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Nov 10, 2016 06:05
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Pomp posted:how are we actually supposed to appeal to working class whites? You just need the same proportion which voted for Obama in 2012 to vote Dem in 2020 It's not a hopeless cause
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Nov 10, 2016 06:04
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Pomp posted:how are we actually supposed to appeal to working class whites? Not sure but I heard awhile back some guy by the name of Barry Hussein won the lily white states of Iowa and Ohio by appealing to working class whites.
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Nov 10, 2016 06:05
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reignonyourparade posted:The best part about Bernie for chair is it's frankly something we can actually work towards. Contact the committee members for your state and yell at them about it until the new pick. It's probably a longshot but it'll feel good to be trying to accomplish SOMETHING. plus it's a good goal to start getting organized around so there can be cadres ready for 2018
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Nov 10, 2016 06:05
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Necc0 posted:another thing i just remembered: why the gently caress weren't they going through the wikileaks site and posting highlights of things they were proud of? it was clear wikilieaks wasn't reading all of that and just releasing their shockers amidst tens of thousands of emails so there was plenty of material to choose from. that seemed obvious to me just a month or two into that whole circus They played that entire situation on the defensive and given the stakes, my gut says that they're more worried about what else might be found. If you've got nothing else to worry about, I would think you don't spend all of your time parrying blows. You throw counters. Likewise, I'd think if someone asks for your emails and you delete a shitload of them first, you're likely really worried about what's in them, even if nothing incriminating happens to be in those particular emails. People who have nothing to worry about don't live in fear and her campaign lived in fear of these discoveries perpetually. My guess is that's more chalked up to arrogance and incompetence than actual deception, but perception is reality with these things and if you and your almighty brain trust can't see why people view scorching your poo poo between when it's asked for and when you hand it over as shady, you were hosed from the beginning anyway.
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Nov 10, 2016 06:08
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Yudo posted:do what bernie sanders did. not rocket science. i voted bernie in the primary because "lmao nobody could possibly lose to trump socialism now" and whelp How loved would Bernie be after the full force of the right wing propaganda machine and Trump's constant poo poo came out? Would the minority vote actually come out for an old white dude? idk lol
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Nov 10, 2016 06:08
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exquisite tea posted:Not sure but I heard awhile back some guy by the name of Barry Hussein won the lily white states of Iowa and Ohio by appealing to working class whites. scoop if true
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Nov 10, 2016 06:10
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Pomp posted:i voted bernie in the primary because "lmao nobody could possibly lose to trump socialism now" and whelp Knowing what we know now about the makeup of the 2016 electorate, Sanders might have been the perfect match to defeat Trump lmao.
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Nov 10, 2016 06:09
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pls stop talking about how obama is the "coolest motherfucker alive," while roasting hillary for being a neoliberal corporate warhawk in the same loving sentence, like do you even hear yourself? wtf man. he's certainly slick, and retained his humanity cause he was barely in washington before he got the top job, but please, stop calling him "cool," im sure there are plenty of legless pakistani kids who'd really appreciate it.
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Nov 10, 2016 06:10
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Pomp posted:how are we actually supposed to appeal to working class whites? Do you not know what its like to work or something. Are your parents paying for college. Sanders basically said 'i know things suck, we all know that, bush and obama both couldn't fix it, so lets try somethig new' and he got a bunch of support. Trump had the exact same campaign platform at the end of the day and clutched this election. Are you really saying that its impossible to reach the lower class.
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Nov 10, 2016 06:10
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exquisite tea posted:Knowing what we know now about the makeup of the 2016 electorate, Sanders might have been the perfect match to defeat Trump lmao. Southern Democrats Matter Too
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Nov 10, 2016 06:10
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Pomp posted:i voted bernie in the primary because "lmao nobody could possibly lose to trump socialism now" and whelp It's not like they came out for Clinton either, and Bernie would have being a far more acceptable choice than Trump for a desperate white working class
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Nov 10, 2016 06:12
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exquisite tea posted:Knowing what we know now about the makeup of the 2016 electorate, Sanders might have been the perfect match to defeat Trump lmao. the one time we could have had socialism vs fascism in america
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Nov 10, 2016 06:12
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cargo cult posted:pls stop talking about how obama is the "coolest motherfucker alive," while roasting hillary for being a neoliberal corporate warhawk in the same loving sentence, like do you even hear yourself? wtf man. he's certainly slick, and retained his humanity cause he was barely in washington before he got the top job, but please, stop calling him "cool," im sure there are plenty of legless pakistani kids who'd really appreciate it. I think you'll find that would only be silly of them if they were calling him Cool and Good (tm). He is not good, but absolutely is ridiculously loving cool.
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Nov 10, 2016 06:11
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Typo posted:It's not like they came out for Clinton either, and Bernie would have being a far more acceptable choice than Trump for a desperate white working class Plus you know another 20% of youths showing up and what have you.
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Nov 10, 2016 06:12
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Pomp posted:i voted bernie in the primary because "lmao nobody could possibly lose to trump socialism now" and whelp Honestly, what red-baity, blame-Bernie-for-literal-mass-shootings could the Republicans have done that the Hillary campaign didn't already do? Bernie was bullet proof on the socialism thing because he embraced it, which was the smartest thing he could have done in spite of the fact that he is decidedly not a socialist.
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Nov 10, 2016 06:12
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cargo cult posted:im sure there are plenty of legless pakistani kids who'd really appreciate it. They don't vote
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Nov 10, 2016 06:13
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Zythrst posted:Plus you know another 20% of youths showing up and what have you. NO NO NO Southern Democrats Matter
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Nov 10, 2016 06:14
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