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Kilroy posted:I don't think you understand: putting the Democratic party in the hands of popular progressives is how the Democratic party (maybe) reestablishes itself in national politics. It might not even work but the Clintons are dead - totally dead and anyone subscribing to Third Way stuff is going to have an increasingly hard time justifying themselves in the face of "Bernie Sanders would have won" (even if that statement can't be made with the surety some think it can). No I understand this. I don't think it happens in any way that effectively takes over a branch of government any time soon. Like 2024 any time soon.
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Nov 10, 2016 06:58
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Flopsy posted:Ya wanna know what'll help? The fact that Trump can't make good on a lot of his stupid campaign promises. And I can promise you that's not going to do him any favors when re-Election come sup. He's going to call for a lot of insane bullshit that will not pass go, or he was lying as he often does and has no intentions of toeing the line and has his own agenda. Who loving knows? He can drat well make good on his campaign promises to stack the SCOTUS with regressive strict constitiutionalists, so there's likely to be a 6-3 conservative court by the end of Trump's term
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Nov 10, 2016 06:57
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Like a lot of the 'economic concerns/bernie was right' crowd are correct we need politicians who we can trust and believe in You can't be that if you say you'll work with Trump
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Nov 10, 2016 06:59
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Admiral Ray posted:UBI will get cratered as soon as someone mentions all those fake social security numbers that illegals use to siphon benefits Mexico. Alternatively UBI is used to Trojan Horse in more rigorous security, e.g. fingerprint recognition, retinal scanning, etc.
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Nov 10, 2016 07:00
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Fojar38 posted:You have to keep in mind that Republicans aren't as unified as they seem. They appeared to be unified when they had evil Obama to rally against but they have no focus now which means factionalism. Do you think Trump will blame failures on Paul Ryan? Please say yes. I'm worried they'll just blame Obama until 2024.
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Nov 10, 2016 07:00
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Well this just ruined my night. 
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Nov 10, 2016 06:59
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Lessail posted:Like a lot of the 'economic concerns/bernie was right' crowd are correct we need politicians who we can trust and believe in So Sanders is out, Warren is out. Who is left after the purges?
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Nov 10, 2016 07:00
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negromancer posted:Lol why the gently caress would white people talk about a thing that inherently benefits them and risk getting that poo poo taken away? You're not wrong about why so many of them don't want to talk about it, but also even if they did it's not like there's a risk it would get taken away just because they stopped being quiet about it. It's not like the existence of white privilege is a secret it's just impolite to bring it up and make us confront the fact that we've had it easy in a lot of ways, big and small. Also I'd give them up but I know saying that doesn't really mean much. I'm not even going to claim it's some kind of 100% selfless uber leftism, I'd personally like to be in a world where I'm not inherently likely to be treated better than my partner for no good goddamn reason.
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Nov 10, 2016 07:01
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Admiral Ray posted:The GOP doesn't have to go through with it; Trump's AG does. If he tells his DEA to avoid pot, then neat. I'm not sure it'll happen. I agree that it's a terrible idea for the GOP but so is Trump. Yeah that's the thing. Trump and his inner circle may not care about politics, but not every member of Congress is a tea party moron. Enough of them understand how far they can go and still hope to get elected, although the threat of getting primaried might scared them in the other direction like it's been doing since 2010. Especially with "states rights" stuff like drugs and the minimum wage.
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Nov 10, 2016 07:01
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Fansy posted:Do you think Trump will blame failures on Paul Ryan? Please say yes. I'm worried they'll just blame Obama until 2024. They're still blaming Bill Clinton for things, of course they're going to blame Obama for everything
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Nov 10, 2016 07:01
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Fansy posted:Do you think Trump will blame failures on Paul Ryan? Please say yes. I'm worried they'll just blame Obama until 2024. Oh they'll keep blaming him but nobody will believe it after a few months of Trump in office, and it won't help GOP factionalism because they themselves never believed it.
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Nov 10, 2016 07:02
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Crowsbeak posted:It does gain traction with the young , as does ending nationwide pot prohibition. It's only ever going to gain traction with a small slice of the electorate. You're gonna have a huge portion who don't want to give a bailout to whippersnappers, and then another sizeable chunk of people who are gonna say "yo I just got done paying off $100,000 in student loan debt, this is bullshit" Flopsy posted:Did you miss the part where I said it's okay to grieve? My main point is don't give up. I'm not saying you don't get to be sad man by all means do what you gotta do. But don't act like this is the end of the line. Small comfort to the people who are inevitably going to be murdered by emboldened bigots.
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Nov 10, 2016 07:02
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Luigi Thirty posted:They're still blaming Bill Clinton for things, of course they're going to blame Obama for everything That's the worst part of this. loving Republican assholes are going to cleanse the Obama legacy. It'll be like he was never even President. 
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Nov 10, 2016 07:02
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Sir Tonk posted:The VA wait/death story was a pretty big deal and I doubt they can voucherize a system that supports that many people with serious health issues and bad attitudes without another media shitstorm. It's in his 100 day plan dude and no GOP leadership has said anything about it. They're far more worried about Trump's proposed term limits. Like, who's going to stop him? loving Flynn?
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Nov 10, 2016 07:02
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Trabisnikof posted:So Sanders is out, Warren is out. Who is left after the purges? There is nobody because they'll all be like loving JEB
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Nov 10, 2016 07:02
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Lightning Knight posted:That's the worst part of this. loving Republican assholes are going to cleanse the Obama legacy. It'll be like he was never even President. Actually there will be Ken Burns style documentaries on the life and career of Barack Obama for a long, long time.
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Nov 10, 2016 07:04
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The Ninth Layer posted:Like real talk we have a fair shot at the presidency in 2020. Maybe the Senate if 2018 isn't a total bloodbath. We'll be lucky if the Supreme Court is up for grabs in any form by then. I just have no faith that for example our R-led House and Senate won't try to pass "voter reform" laws that eliminate early and mail-in voting and require some archaic voter ID law, and then we have to fight against that and gerrymandering and the right-wing lies machine. Also an additional benefit to the total politicization of our institutions (e.g., FBI, stonewalling Obama judicial appointees including Garland) is that there is less holding back the Dems from just impeaching the Justices they don't like as soon as they are able, and removing them from office. I mean a lot of the sanctity and continuity of the Supreme Court rests on decorum and precedent, not law, and we have at least one party that has thrown decorum and precedent right out the window. I think the Democrats are better off joining in, at this point.
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Nov 10, 2016 07:04
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Lightning Knight posted:That's the worst part of this. loving Republican assholes are going to cleanse the Obama legacy. It'll be like he was never even President. If he fucks up a lot it'll just make people remember Obama that much more fondly. Dubya and his administration blamed everything on Bill Clinton for years but that never stopped people from loving him.
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Nov 10, 2016 07:06
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PKJC posted:You're not wrong about why so many of them don't want to talk about it, but also even if they did it's not like there's a risk it would get taken away just because they stopped being quiet about it. It's not like the existence of white privilege is a secret it's just impolite to bring it up and make us confront the fact that we've had it easy in a lot of ways, big and small. Part of why white privilege exists is the fact that most white people deny its existence. There's no need to get rid of something that you say doesn't exist in the first place. And the white liberals know it exists and know they benefit, that's why they do all of their "outreach" to racist white people so half assed and lazy, if at all. They don't really want to get rid of it, because that would require sacrifice on their part, and they aren't even willing to sacrifice a Thanksgiving dinner with their racist nana.
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Nov 10, 2016 07:07
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Lightning Knight posted:That's the worst part of this. loving Republican assholes are going to cleanse the Obama legacy. It'll be like he was never even President. Atreyu!!!
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Nov 10, 2016 07:07
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I wonder how sustainable these swings in Congress will be now that we're at the point of one party abolishing the minimum wage and then the other pushing it to $15/hr when they take over. The business community is going to lose their minds if this starts to happen every 4-12 years. The Dems will eventually get to the point where they have a lock on the Presidency, assuming they're able to get the rust belt back in the safe zone. Texas went more for Hillary than we did for Obama by a significant amount and that trend will continue in four years. Hell, if Trump keeps up his anti-immigrant stuff then Texas shift could be accelerated (assuming the state Dems ever get this poo poo together) to going blue in four years. All the cities are even more blue than ten years ago and the rural areas aren't increasing in population.
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Nov 10, 2016 07:07
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negromancer posted:Part of why white privilege exists is the fact that most white people deny its existence. There's no need to get rid of something that you say doesn't exist in the first place. https://twitter.com/voyahora/status/796582427699318785
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Nov 10, 2016 07:08
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Ugh and gently caress the smug rear end in a top hat goons who are pretending this poo poo isn't happening   
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Nov 10, 2016 07:08
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Sir Tonk posted:I've been dealing with the VA for ten years now and while yes the people going there for doctors are not typically Democrats, they are very in tune with their level of care and that they aren't paying anything for it. They may bitch about long waits and overworked doctors, but they will lose their loving minds if they ever have to pay for anything and that will trickle down to their children immediately (if you have a relative that's a disabled vet, you know what I'm talking about) who will then complain to their congressman. The VA wait/death story was a pretty big deal and I doubt they can voucherize a system that supports that many people with serious health issues and bad attitudes without another media shitstorm. The VA wait/death story was a big deal because Obama was President. Those mealy mouthed motherfuckers out there don't actually care about us and fewer and fewer people even know any veterans. If the Republicans do it the only prominent politician that'll bring it up is Tammy Duckworth.
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Nov 10, 2016 07:08
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Lessail posted:Look, we both know how this is going down
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Nov 10, 2016 07:08
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Crowsbeak posted:When has that ever stopped the GOP? They haven't controlled all three branches in over ten years and not every member is willing to risk his reelection chances on ideological purity tests. Way more than ever before are, but I don't think there's enough.
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Nov 10, 2016 07:09
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Kilroy posted:Do we? Progressives were already ascendant in the party before this election and the perception, right or wrong, is that establishment Dems hosed them out of the nomination and that they would have won if they'd gotten their guy in. I think progressives will ultimately come out of this energized, and the DLC crew will come out of this totally discredited. It remains to be seen how that sorts itself out - we'll see how the Democratic primaries in 2018 go, and I suspect we'll start seeing the shake-ups very early next year. I have no idea how you can be optimistic anymore. Kudos to you
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Nov 10, 2016 07:10
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Kilroy posted:Do we? Progressives were already ascendant in the party before this election and the perception, right or wrong, is that establishment Dems hosed them out of the nomination and that they would have won if they'd gotten their guy in. I think progressives will ultimately come out of this energized, and the DLC crew will come out of this totally discredited. It remains to be seen how that sorts itself out - we'll see how the Democratic primaries in 2018 go, and I suspect we'll start seeing the shake-ups very early next year. Without an actual ideology progressive will continue to eat their own like the people in this thread declaring Warren purgable due to her willingness to "work with Trump"
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Nov 10, 2016 07:12
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Kilroy posted:Do we? Progressives were already ascendant in the party before this election and the perception, right or wrong, is that establishment Dems hosed them out of the nomination and that they would have won if they'd gotten their guy in. I think progressives will ultimately come out of this energized, and the DLC crew will come out of this totally discredited. It remains to be seen how that sorts itself out - we'll see how the Democratic primaries in 2018 go, and I suspect we'll start seeing the shake-ups very early next year. Like I said, I hope you are right. Thank you for at least making the case that we may have a chance, it's made me feel a little better.
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Nov 10, 2016 07:12
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https://twitter.com/brianstelter/status/796591796222644224 If anyone was celebrating the death of Gawker, go gently caress yourselves. This is the logical conclusion.
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Nov 10, 2016 07:12
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Sir Tonk posted:I wonder how sustainable these swings in Congress will be now that we're at the point of one party abolishing the minimum wage and then the other pushing it to $15/hr when they take over. The business community is going to lose their minds if this starts to happen every 4-12 years. yeah, for all the doomsaying about the dems being done forever trump's victory was almost entirely on the back of low dem turnout, not some massive realignment in the electorate. if dems can figure out how to get their people to actually vote then they're golden. i'd like to believe that the sheer awfulness of the trump administration will finally cause dem voters to give a poo poo but who knows
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Nov 10, 2016 07:11
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Lessail posted:Who cares about the press after this election? No matter who runs, they'll try to paint you as just as bad. What actually is just as bad is giving up quickly and telling Trump to lead away Society functions because people believe that it should exist. The Congressional Dems are doing what they can to maintain that reality. As much as we'd love for them to do what McConnell did to Obama a few years ago, it wouldn't be good for the country.
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Nov 10, 2016 07:11
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Trabisnikof posted:Without an actual ideology progressive will continue to eat their own like the people in this thread declaring Warren purgable due to her willingness to "work with Trump" Maybe she should've stuck up for those she claimed to represent during the election
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Nov 10, 2016 07:13
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Sir Tonk posted:Society functions because people believe that it should exist. The Congressional Dems are doing what they can to maintain that reality. As much as we'd love for them to do what McConnell did to Obama a few years ago, it wouldn't be good for the country. Trump is President-Elect ffs
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Nov 10, 2016 07:14
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iospace posted:https://twitter.com/brianstelter/status/796591796222644224 I want to be sympathetic and I know that's really bad but They reap what they sowed. They deserve every second Trump spends making GBS threads on them because he's their candidate.
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Nov 10, 2016 07:13
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Lightning Knight posted:That's the worst part of this. loving Republican assholes are going to cleanse the Obama legacy. It'll be like he was never even President. You're insane and should be ignored.
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Nov 10, 2016 07:14
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Lessail posted:Maybe she should've stuck up for those she claimed to represent during the election Maybe she is by doing her job as a Senator and not taking her ball and going home because we lost. The idea that some on the left have that Democrats wouldn't get murdered by the media if they made a big stand is insane. If a Democratic Senator said they refuse to work with Trump, the media would treat it as if that senator was the first person to suggest there might not be a peaceful transfer of power. No you want your "progressives" to take a meaningless stand that only can hurt them but shows some sort of weird solidarity. As if Warren is a faker but would be totally real if only she flipped off Trump.
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Nov 10, 2016 07:16
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fosborb posted:It's in his 100 day plan dude and no GOP leadership has said anything about it. They're far more worried about Trump's proposed term limits. If Flynn becomes SecDef or head of the VA all bets are off. That dude is a loving psychopath and a moron.
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Nov 10, 2016 07:15
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Trabisnikof posted:Maybe she is by doing her job as a Senator and not taking her ball and going home because we lost. The media will crucify them no matter what as this election loving showed
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Nov 10, 2016 07:16
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Sir Tonk posted:You're insane and should be ignored. I mean their stated goals are to repeal Obamacare and all of his executive orders. I don't mean people literally won't remember Obama but his legislative legacy is going down the drain.
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Nov 10, 2016 07:16
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