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EvilJoven posted:Imagine what's going to happen when entire logistics, accounting and legal departments are replaced by a tiny handful of people inputting data into a couple of servers racked up in the corner of some data center somewhere. It's worth pointing out that there's no reason that data entry has to occur in North America either.
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# ? Nov 10, 2016 17:15 |
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# ? Jun 9, 2024 21:03 |
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I wouldn't be surprised if "knowledge workers" are some of the first to go. Every tech company I have ever worked for is trying to increase machine learning and code automation. Those programmers are already creating the code that will put them out of jobs, "like captured partisans digging their own mass grave," in the words of Stewart Lee. Oh well, guess they should have unionized when they had the chance. peter banana fucked around with this message at 17:18 on Nov 10, 2016 |
# ? Nov 10, 2016 17:15 |
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Jan posted:This is the real fundamental problem. Lots of rural jobs have simply been deprecated out of existence, and it's far easier for the people who once held these jobs to blame it on what they don't know (i.e.: immigrants and intellectual elites in their ivory tower) than to understand that these jobs aren't necessary anymore. So of course, Trump promising to bring back all those jobs (nevermind the lack of viability for these jobs in the first place). Rural people don't want to live condo to cubicle. As backwards as you think they are, they feel just as strongly. Their contempt isn't towards minorities, it's towards city people which I think is completely justified if your post is at all representative.
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# ? Nov 10, 2016 17:20 |
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Postess with the Mostest posted:Rural people don't want to live condo to cubicle. How do rural people want to live, Ikantski?
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# ? Nov 10, 2016 17:24 |
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Why do we need mincome if we have mortgages and helocs
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# ? Nov 10, 2016 17:23 |
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infernal machines posted:How do rural people want to live, Ikantski? They want to be free-range.
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# ? Nov 10, 2016 17:28 |
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There's nothing wrong with resenting the people you aren't for telling you that the way you're living is wrong, even when they are correct.
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# ? Nov 10, 2016 17:29 |
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infernal machines posted:How do rural people want to live, Ikantski? Broadly, I'd say they seem happy to trade income and amenities for outdoorsy nature stuff and elbow room.
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# ? Nov 10, 2016 17:33 |
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I think it's been said before in the thread but somehow the gradual streamlining and loss of jobs through technological advancement follows the viewpoint that "these people are just going to need to find work and be unable to" rather than "these people don't need to work anymore because machines have their share covered now". The current system's endpoint is everyone except for the capitalists becoming redundant and it's crazy that that's just tacitly accepted. One saving grace of rural areas is that agriculture is a job that will never become obsolete or redundant (but may become outcompeted if a large enough entity seems profit to be made in simply producing the wheat, canola, etc. for their own products themselves, margins are thin enough as it is and haven't improved much for farmers in decades).
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# ? Nov 10, 2016 17:34 |
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Postess with the Mostest posted:Rural people don't want to live condo to cubicle. As backwards as you think they are, they feel just as strongly. Their contempt isn't towards minorities, it's towards city people which I think is completely justified if your post is at all representative. Yes, the city people who embody things like "allowing men into women's bathrooms", "blacks running amok in the streets", "muslim terorrists killing hundreds" or "those gays marrying and spreading AIDS like wildfire". The rural way of life is slowly dying, it's not that way of life that is backwards, it's the "us vs them" reaction to that way of life dying out and all the ugliness that comes with it. What I was describing in my post isn't contempt or backwardsness, but rather the impossibility of sitting the two solitudes of city and rural life at the same table to try and work things out. Why do you think it's so impossible to form a government that appeals to both? Because any attempt to favour one "side" inevitably leads to the other feeling neglected.
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# ? Nov 10, 2016 17:38 |
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TheKingofSprings posted:
You could adopt a system where everyone gets paid a minimum livable income from the proceeds of the machine doing the work that used to be theirs.
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# ? Nov 10, 2016 17:39 |
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TheKingofSprings posted:One saving grace of rural areas is that agriculture is a job that will never become obsolete or redundant Dude tractors already drive themselves thanks to not needing to be approved by Transport Canada. Career farmers and everyone else at the lower levels of agriculture are suffering so much from automation and economy of scale driving down wages for every aspect of the industry it's frightening. Except for the upper levels of the white collar corporate aspects of agriculture. Holy gently caress is there ever a lot of money flowing to the top. I should know, I'm a computer janitor for a big Ag entity.
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# ? Nov 10, 2016 17:40 |
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Postess with the Mostest posted:Broadly, I'd say they seem happy to trade income and amenities for outdoorsy nature stuff and elbow room. I'd agree, based on my personal experience. Is anyone preventing them from doing that?
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# ? Nov 10, 2016 17:40 |
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Jesus christ is every single person in this thread an IT weenie
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# ? Nov 10, 2016 17:40 |
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EvilJoven posted:Dude tractors already drive themselves thanks to not needing to be approved by Transport Canada. Career farmers and everyone else at the lower levels of agriculture are suffering so much from automation and economy of scale driving down wages for every aspect of the industry it's frightening. I'm currently reading through documentation on self driving haul trucks. It is happening.
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# ? Nov 10, 2016 17:41 |
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a fleshy snood posted:Jesus christ is every single person in this thread an IT weenie These limp wristed it weenies!
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# ? Nov 10, 2016 17:44 |
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TheKingofSprings posted:I think it's been said before in the thread but somehow the gradual streamlining and loss of jobs through technological advancement follows the viewpoint that "these people are just going to need to find work and be unable to" rather than "these people don't need to work anymore because machines have their share covered now". The movie Interstellar had automated GPS tractors, these are aren't some future looking thing. They are real and exist today, agriculture is just as vulnerable. The first to go will be truck drivers, which employs millions.
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# ? Nov 10, 2016 17:46 |
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TheKingofSprings posted:I think it's been said before in the thread but somehow the gradual streamlining and loss of jobs through technological advancement follows the viewpoint that "these people are just going to need to find work and be unable to" rather than "these people don't need to work anymore because machines have their share covered now". In agriculture they have giant picking machines that pick, clean and sort all at the same time that just need a couple people walking in front to clear the produce of bugs and poo poo.
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# ? Nov 10, 2016 17:46 |
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Gary Doer seems to think that Trump will be a positive force for trade at the very least. BUILD THAT PIPELINE MR. TRUMP http://winnipeg.ctvnews.ca/trump-to-exceed-expectations-of-canadians-doer-1.3153536 quote:As many Americans come to grips with the outcome of the election, several Canadians ponder how the change in leadership will impact them.
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# ? Nov 10, 2016 17:50 |
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We're gonna build a pipeline and it's gonna go through Shoal Lake and one day it's going to rupture and ruin the fresh water drinking supply for most people in the entire loving province. All for oil that is not profitable to extract without massively subsidies. gently caress this gay earth.
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# ? Nov 10, 2016 17:51 |
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cowofwar posted:Almost no jobs will become obsolete or redundant, they will all become highly automated and employ 90% fewer people. This is how they harvested tomatoes in Leamington, ON in the 2000s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8OApv_9o6SM&t=228s
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# ? Nov 10, 2016 17:52 |
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TheKingofSprings posted:One saving grace of rural areas is that agriculture is a job that will never become obsolete or redundant (but may become outcompeted if a large enough entity seems profit to be made in simply producing the wheat, canola, etc. for their own products themselves, margins are thin enough as it is and haven't improved much for farmers in decades). I am pretty sure that urban agriculture of all kinds is a thing that is being actively researched and worked on. It might not supplant rural agriculture as much as complement it, but expect an increasing amount of rooftop high density hydroponic farms accounting for a significant portion of production.
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# ? Nov 10, 2016 17:56 |
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The thing about that video is all that by now all the equipment you see being driven by an operator is either already autonomous or just a few years away from being so.
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# ? Nov 10, 2016 17:57 |
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TheKingofSprings posted:I think it's been said before in the thread but somehow the gradual streamlining and loss of jobs through technological advancement follows the viewpoint that "these people are just going to need to find work and be unable to" rather than "these people don't need to work anymore because machines have their share covered now". There Is No Alternative has been the accepted narrative non-stop, hard since the end of the cold war ("We won, it's over, deal with it commies") and the horrors of technocratic state socialism were thrown in the face of every left movement, from anarchism to mild social democracy, with a smattering of fascist propaganda dusted off to propagate a black legend about these ideologies that have no effective ties to the bolsheviks ("Did you know the anarchists burned a few churches in Spain, the poor, poor, oppressed, misunderstood catholic church"). On top of this they can essentially walk over any semblance of it because the nominal left leadership is collaborating with it, and because its main supports have essentially been drowned. It's not even the received wisdom of traditional left voters going far-right, at least as far as polls in France show, most of them are either still voting left or gave up on voting altogether. Agnosticnixie fucked around with this message at 18:01 on Nov 10, 2016 |
# ? Nov 10, 2016 17:58 |
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Risky Bisquick posted:The movie Interstellar had automated GPS tractors, these are aren't some future looking thing. They are real and exist today, agriculture is just as vulnerable. I drive a GPS tractor for a summer job so I'm pretty aware of that. They're still not currently perfect and if they gently caress up you are liable to have your tractor drive onto the highway and kill someone or cause a collision resulting in several hundred thousand dollars in damage. Eventually the driver may become completely supplanted by a machine but I really hope there's at least enough sane regulation to keep someone at the wheel as a precaution. Jan posted:I am pretty sure that urban agriculture of all kinds is a thing that is being actively researched and worked on. It might not supplant rural agriculture as much as complement it, but expect an increasing amount of rooftop high density hydroponic farms accounting for a significant portion of production. The margins on those tomatoes are tiny and with so little surface area to grow urban production has a pretty hard limit on the amount of money to be made from it. Until we start breeding 20 foot tall tomato trees to compensate and agriculture goes up uP UP
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# ? Nov 10, 2016 18:00 |
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EvilJoven posted:The thing about that video is all that by now all the equipment you see being driven by an operator is either already autonomous or just a few years away from being so. The GPS combines from the movie Interstellar are being rolled out right now.
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# ? Nov 10, 2016 18:00 |
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Risky Bisquick posted:The GPS combines from the movie Interstellar are being rolled out right now. GPS systems in tractors and combines can lose and have trouble finding signals due to shifts in the satellite and other factors, and we are within a decade or two of somebody loving up (looking at you China) and having a collision cause a debris cascade that will gently caress up the systems we've come to depend on.
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# ? Nov 10, 2016 18:04 |
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EvilJoven posted:GG left, you lose again. The continued pressures of globalism and immigration will ensure that rural culture will continue to disappear - as it should. Trump is an unfortunate side effect of the last vestiges of a dying history mounting whatever defense they can of this - but it too will pass, gracefully or not so; people like that - and the people who defend people like that - are on the wrong side of history.
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# ? Nov 10, 2016 18:03 |
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infernal machines posted:I'd agree, based on my personal experience. Is anyone preventing them from doing that? There is a perception that Hydro One, Wynne and the people who keep electing her are making their life harder.
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# ? Nov 10, 2016 18:05 |
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VkanknGePhc These are roaming about already at a few of BHP's mining sites. The one thing they're garbage at is driving about when it's foggy but other than that when conditions are perfect they're better than humans.
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# ? Nov 10, 2016 18:15 |
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Postess with the Mostest posted:There is a perception that Hydro One, Wynne and the people who keep electing her are making their life harder. No doubt they are, but do you believe the fact that it costs more to provide basic infrastructure to low density distributed communities is a conspiracy against rural peoples, or a byproduct of physical reality? Isn't this a trade-off that falls into the "income and amenities" category? If it does cost more to provide services to lower density areas, how much should that be offset by increasing fees/taxes/etc. on high-density urban communities? Should we expect urban populations to subsidize rural ones (more than they do already)?
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# ? Nov 10, 2016 18:18 |
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JawKnee posted:The continued pressures of globalism and immigration will ensure that rural culture will continue to disappear - as it should. Trump is an unfortunate side effect of the last vestiges of a dying history mounting whatever defense they can of this - but it too will pass, gracefully or not so; people like that - and the people who defend people like that - are on the wrong side of history. You blame Trump's election on the vestiges of rural society? It wasn't just rurals that elected Trump. That being said, there are enough rurals left that if you keep antagonizing them and pushing them away, allowing the right to capitalize on your desire for division, you will only make it harder for the left to regain traction in our society. Same with the people living in the suburbs you demonize. Same with the out of work assembly line workers you demonize. Same with the white collar cubicle drones you demonize. There is a limited amount of time before it's too late. If we don't change things there will be nothing left but war, famine, and death. Don't play chicken with the course of humanity because it's easier to blame the state of our society on whatever group you aren't a member of you've decided to lay all the ills of mankind on that day. We band together or we fall. Choose to find a way to help us come together or die on your soap box, screaming at the masses for being shitlords.
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# ? Nov 10, 2016 18:18 |
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EvilJoven posted:You blame Trump's election on the vestiges of rural society? you're right, I'm included suburban voters in that statement. But you want to know why Trump won? This is why: quote:That being said, there are enough rurals left that if you keep antagonizing them and pushing them away, allowing the right to capitalize on your desire for division, you will only make it harder for the left to regain traction in our society. quote:Same with the people living in the suburbs you demonize. quote:There is a limited amount of time before it's too late. If we don't change things there will be nothing left but war, famine, and death. Don't play chicken with the course of humanity because it's easier to blame the state of our society on whatever group you aren't a member of you've decided to lay all the ills of mankind on that day. quote:We band together or we fall. Choose to find a way to help us come together or die on your soap box, screaming at the masses for being shitlords.
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# ? Nov 10, 2016 18:42 |
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The NSDAP wasn't a rural party. Thinking it's just going to go away when your precious pristine country side is devoid of terrible people is bullshit liberal nonsense and why this poo poo keeps happening like clockwork every time capitalism shits the bed.
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# ? Nov 10, 2016 18:49 |
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Here's my reason why we should not ignore rural life: it is our breadbasket. Without agriculture, we starve. Literally starve. It's like bees. Even if you are afraid of them for getting stung, without them we die. Every time we kill a pollenating insect, we tempt the fate of our own survival. Every time we ignore a coalition of people this important, we limit ourselves. I grew up in rural county. They're not a huge ball of racism across the board. (Mine, for example, was a huge ball of homophobia instead.) It is also important how their different issues are affected across rural groups. Rural kids, for example, are probably the most inclined to pro-environmentalist thought of all people in Canada. After all, living in the bush means they have the most practical use for it. The issues around wind power in southern Ontario is mostly generational; those who attended grade school anytime after the Whole Earth Catalogue was out or if they watched enough TVOKids growing up have all be told that windmills are cool and why didn't we have them years ago? Those that are constantly complaining about the winmillls are usually older, but they do have some actual complaints about who exactly should be taking care of them when there is damage or things go wrong. The fact that the responsibility is shared between agriculture, power generation, and industrial safety standards creates a lot of confusion; not to mention the looming spectre of agriculture being eventually replaced with agribusiness. It's really bad that we're letting the fiscal conservatives run roughshod all over these guys. They're able to take some of the most effective environmentalism to be found out there and snuff it out be fanning the flames of Othering. It's tragic. Especially because the "economics" they replace environmentalism with is an extremely poor subsitute.
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# ? Nov 10, 2016 18:52 |
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A reminder, as ever, that the NDP was founded in large part by farmers. Edit: from the Prairies.
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# ? Nov 10, 2016 18:58 |
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The funny thing is I don't even really disagree with EvilJoven about a key thing - moving forward rather than pointing blame is the important thing for Dems to do in the states. But looking at turnout numbers it's really easy to draw the conclusion that the Dems both ran the wrong candidate, and the wrong message in middle-america. But the key thing here is that Trump winning isn't going to bring back factory jobs to the rust belt, or give your 13 out of work uneducated cousins a steady paying gig anywhere. This is a billionaire business man who is, if nothing else, a firm product of globalism, and one who absolutely has and will continue to take advantage of it. I don't think racism won the day in the states - Wisconsin, Ohio, and Michigan all went for Obama previously - I think lies won the day.
JawKnee fucked around with this message at 19:04 on Nov 10, 2016 |
# ? Nov 10, 2016 19:01 |
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Also the so often seen demonized in this thread, gun owning hunting aficionados are quite often the ones spearheading the conservation of wetlands, inland waters, and forests. And yet instead of trying to convince them of the benefits of joining the left they're written off and vilified as nothing but racist gun toting simpletons and end up being courted and scooped up by the right.
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# ? Nov 10, 2016 19:06 |
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TheKingofSprings posted:They're still not currently perfect and if they gently caress up you are liable to have your tractor drive onto the highway and kill someone or cause a collision resulting in several hundred thousand dollars in damage. Eventually the driver may become completely supplanted by a machine but I really hope there's at least enough sane regulation to keep someone at the wheel as a precaution. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MwC_Hzm5Z9s I've seen the prototypes, they work great, and I suspect that cabless tractor will be on the market by 2020, certainly by 2030. The big Precision Ag companies are all working on this stuff, using cameras and Lidar to fix all the issues drivers are expected to handle now (nor is requiring a driver working now, since you've got interns and 17 year olds operating them now, and everyone is loving around on their iPads while they do so). For all the hype about driverless cars, I'm betting you'll see driverless ag equipment at work first.
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# ? Nov 10, 2016 19:07 |
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# ? Jun 9, 2024 21:03 |
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Half of my close family lives in the country 10 minutes on the outskirts of my hometown and most of them have or are obtaining university degrees, so this rural bogeyman is weird to me. Hell, the definition of rural apparently includes myself based on what people in the thread have said when the discussion came up a few days ago. PittTheElder posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MwC_Hzm5Z9s I agree with that wholeheartedly, especially since the bulk of agricultural production is on privately owned land. I also think that you can expect at least a couple of news articles about a tractor driving itself 5 miles down a highway accidentally due to some kind of engineering flaws or failures showing themselves (if I was to guess at a possibility something like dust blocking the camera view after a few hours of operation is a definite possibility).
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# ? Nov 10, 2016 19:11 |