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Like, handwringing about loving guns in the middle of the biggest live performance of the Resistible Rise of Arturo Ui when minorities are saying they're scared enough to say gently caress it and arm up might not be the smartest thing, no matter how illiberal you think it is. Purity tests and all that.
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Nov 10, 2016 20:54
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sit on my Facebook posted:The democratic party from top to bottom is responsible for this. They're bad at winning elections, the only reason we've had the presidency for these eight years is 1) Bush was Bush and 2) Obama's generationally unique charisma and savvy. The first step in fixing the problems we just elected is a complete shake down of the DNC Again, Dems lost the vote because people didn't believe in them, and because the DNC never spoke to them or actually cared. We're about to see a new system of who-versus-who.
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Nov 10, 2016 20:54
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Tatsuta Age posted:Out of the "ten women you know", statistically, somewhere between 4 and 6 of them voted for Trump, by the by. Yeah, but that doesn't fit into my narrative of a singular group that I can freely attack without worry that someone could say something nasty to me in return
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Nov 10, 2016 20:54
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HorseRenoir posted:gently caress this. don't pretend like white dem voters had no agency in any of this. they knew what was at stake and what would happen to minorities if trump got elected, and they just didn't care. that's it. You misunderstand me, I'm including the voters in that blanket condemnation.
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Nov 10, 2016 20:56
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Terrific Accident posted:You seriously come off like a crazy person. Please do not buy a gun for the love of god. You are the product of a racist educational system that didn't teach you about things like this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenwood,_Tulsa https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Summer http://withoutsanctuary.org/ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emmett_Till https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dylann_Roof And forget this is part of the America that was "Great" that they would like to return to. Squashing Machine posted:And you're a paranoid fanatic who throws accusations essentially at random and selectively dismisses real evidence in favor of something that makes you feel good. Guns will not save you. There's real evidence for you above. But continue telling black people how to react to a threat you will never face. How progressive of you.
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Nov 10, 2016 20:56
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Squashing Machine posted:The blame rests with the DNC and the Clinton campaign, who failed hilariously at doing the barest of work to get those people out to the polls. The only explanation that makes sense is that voting against something in absence of some choice perceived as positive just plain isn't enough to get people to go to the polls. All the anti-Trump ads only convinced people that this election doesn't deserve their time. Which has horrible consequences, but is an insight into sociology that can't be overlooked.
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Nov 10, 2016 20:56
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Tatsuta Age posted:Can't wait to see the Art of the Deal on this one! Simple. Move the embassy to Jerusalem, but also make a new embassy in Ramallah. Everybody wins, everybody's happy.
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Nov 10, 2016 20:56
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chumbler posted:Yes, nonviters bear no responsibility at all. Clearly it is the party's fault. It's the party's job to convince people that voting is worth time in transit and in line. It's what we donate money for and hire expensive professionals to do. They failed at their only job.
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Nov 10, 2016 20:57
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Agnosticnixie posted:Like, handwringing about loving guns in the middle of the biggest live performance of the Resistible Rise of Arturo Ui when minorities are saying they're scared enough to say gently caress it and arm up might not be the smartest thing, no matter how illiberal you think it is. No its okay if we get lynched to further their talking points when sitting down at dinner with their deplorable racist relatives they refuse to call out.
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Nov 10, 2016 20:57
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greatn posted:Simple. Move the embassy to Jerusalem, but also make a new embassy in Ramallah. Everybody wins, everybody's happy. OIC wants Jerusalem to be Palestine's capital
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Nov 10, 2016 20:58
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Agnosticnixie posted:Like, handwringing about loving guns in the middle of the biggest live performance of the Resistible Rise of Arturo Ui when minorities are saying they're scared enough to say gently caress it and arm up might not be the smartest thing, no matter how illiberal you think it is. That is one thing I desperately hope the upcoming purge of the Democratic Party allows. Driving out the ancient corpses lurking in the DNP who feel it is ABSOLUTELY IMPERATIVE to endlessly tilt at the gun control windmill no matter the costs.
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Nov 10, 2016 20:59
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Squashing Machine posted:It's the party's job to convince people that voting is worth time in transit and in line. It's what we donate money for and hire expensive professionals to do. They failed at their only job. It is the voters' job to exercise their god damned right to vote. It isn't the party's job to hold their hand while they do it. Trump won, and it is in large part non-voters' fault. Period.
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Nov 10, 2016 21:00
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Shadokin posted:Over 1 million less Republican votes the 2012. Little over 5000 less then 2008. Democrats over 9 million votes since 2008. HRC was a terrible loving candidate and liberals convinced themselves she wasn't and then spent 16 months screaming at and shouting down anyone who pointed this out if you want to blame someone blame the party elites who decided January 20 2013 Hillary would be the nominee and then pressured everyone else out of the race except for the millenial pied piper from brooklyn icantfindaname fucked around with this message at 21:01 on Nov 10, 2016 |
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Nov 10, 2016 20:59
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negromancer posted:No its okay if we get lynched to further their talking points when sitting down at dinner with their deplorable racist relatives they refuse to call out. Reposting for emphasis Panzeh posted:Guns in the hands of the proletariat are good.
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Nov 10, 2016 21:00
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WhiskeyJuvenile posted:OIC wants Jerusalem to be Palestine's capital Even easier, make the Jerusalem embassy a duplex, Palestinians get one half.
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Nov 10, 2016 20:59
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chumbler posted:Yes, nonviters bear no responsibility at all. Clearly it is the party's fault. I mean, we have known that people don't turn up unless you tell them for ages. Sure, the non-voters will have to live with the conscience of contributing to this, but the leadership royally hosed up in their primary role to lead people to the polls. I think there's a subtle line between responsibility and guilt.
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Nov 10, 2016 21:01
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negromancer posted:You are the product of a racist educational system that didn't teach you about things like this All of these examples happened before the rise of the militarized police, or are objectively indistinguishable to declaring that you would have personally stopped the Sandy Hook massacre or the attempted assassination of Gabby Giffords. It is "good guy with a gun" rhetoric wrapped in a tarp.
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Nov 10, 2016 21:00
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HorseRenoir posted:gently caress this. don't pretend like white dem voters had no agency in any of this. they knew what was at stake and what would happen to minorities if trump got elected, and they just didn't care. that's it. You realize it was also minority voters that also stayed home right?
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Nov 10, 2016 21:00
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Squashing Machine posted:All of these examples happened before the rise of the militarized police, or are objectively indistinguishable to declaring that you would have personally stopped the Sandy Hook massacre or the attempted assassination of Gabby Giffords. It is "good guy with a gun" rhetoric wrapped in a tarp. A key facet you seem to missing here is that armed resistance against state violence is actually good
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Nov 10, 2016 21:01
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sit on my Facebook posted:The white supremacists can't and shouldn't be helped. gently caress 'em. However, regardless of whether you want to admit it or not, white supremacists are not the reason Trump is president, he's president in spite of them. The democrats have to become the American Labour party if they want to survive in any capacity beyond minority opposition. We can build a party that's racially inclusive, respects women, and genuinely advocates for the working class. These things are not mutually exclusive. Slapfighting about who's last racist is not going to help anything. Let's talk about organizing or communities instead maybe? Be the change you wanna see? How does this work when the other party will just change to what you said plus more and by the way, <a racism>. Trump just made poo poo up to garner votes from white people and also engaged in racism, boasted about sexual assault and called one of his accusers ugly, claimed he would nuke the terrorists and turn NATO into a protection racket, and so on. And 50% of voters still voted for him. What policy proposals are better than fantasy? Maybe we should play realpolitik and throw racial, gender and sexual minorities under the bus to get back into power, but what proposals do you use when your opponent is saying he'll start trade wars? I don't agree with playing realpolitik in this case, but I can't even figure out how it could be done even if I wanted to.
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Nov 10, 2016 21:02
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negromancer posted:No its okay if we get lynched to further their talking points when sitting down at dinner with their deplorable racist relatives they refuse to call out. What makes you think this isn't happening? I've called out family and coworkers in one on one and group settings. Repeatedly. I've tried to explain some historical events and the long and unending oppression in terms White people can understand. I don't think a single one spent a single second reflecting on this. The most common response is laughter. They often don't believe it's that big of an issue because The perceived SJW nonsense.
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Nov 10, 2016 21:01
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sit on my Facebook posted:A key facet you seem to missing here is that armed resistance against state violence is actually good And that state controls weapons that no number of citizens with conventional firearms would ever stand a chance against.
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Nov 10, 2016 21:02
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Liquid Communism posted:That is one thing I desperately hope the upcoming purge of the Democratic Party allows. Driving out the ancient corpses lurking in the DNP who feel it is ABSOLUTELY IMPERATIVE to endlessly tilt at the gun control windmill no matter the costs. Ancient corpses such as black lives matter
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Nov 10, 2016 21:02
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Grognan posted:You realize it was also minority voters that also stayed home right? Can we just blame "Democrats?" I'm a Democrat, I voted...and I still feel like I hosed up somehow. I mean, the obvious party for blame here is the loving Trumpists, but that's pointless. They'll get their's once they lose health insurance and their jobs. When they turn to blame the Democrats...oh shocker, there aren't any.
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Nov 10, 2016 21:03
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I wouldn't want to be living in a red/red/red state right now. Will there by further exodus from these states to urban centres in blue states? Also the GOP didn't win, the DNC lost. It's an important distinction.
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Nov 10, 2016 21:04
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Mister Adequate posted:Oh I agree, but frankly? I think the answer is simple rank misogyny, and so do 9/10s of the women I know personally. People suddenly found that concerns about corruption and collusion were of the utmost loving importance when it was Clinton on the ballot, whereas anyone else can be far worse and have it overlooked. you and your friends are idiots
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Nov 10, 2016 21:03
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fadam posted:voting for their own best interests. an assumption that has little bearing in reality
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Nov 10, 2016 21:03
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Blame doesn't have to go to a single person or entity, folks. There's a lot to spread around.
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Nov 10, 2016 21:04
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sit on my Facebook posted:You misunderstand me, I'm including the voters in that blanket condemnation. my point is that eventually the buck has to stop with the voters. you can blame the DNC all you want but at the end of the day, a majority of white Dem voters saw what was coming and who would be affected, and decided they didn't care enough to fill out a single bubble on a sheet of paper. the most devastating thing about this election to me is the feeling that truly no one gives a poo poo about me, not even so-called "allies" who are so wishy-washy with their support that they can let white supremacy take over the country and not even bat an eye
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Nov 10, 2016 21:03
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Squashing Machine posted:All of these examples happened before the rise of the militarized police, or are objectively indistinguishable to declaring that you would have personally stopped the Sandy Hook massacre or the attempted assassination of Gabby Giffords. It is "good guy with a gun" rhetoric wrapped in a tarp. Dylann Roof happened last year, fuckface. And you called black people being afraid of racial violence a "paranoid delusion", when there's plenty of evidence otherwise. No one is pushing a "good guy with a gun" narrative. We're pushing the "I want to be able to prevent being dragged out of my home and lynched" narrative. Grognan posted:You realize it was also minority voters that also stayed home right? If by stayed home you mean "were not able to vote due to voter ID laws and voter suppression", then yes. Everyone trying their damnedest not to blame the 50+ million terrible loving white people. It's like Cirque du Soleil up in here.
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Nov 10, 2016 21:05
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sit on my Facebook posted:The democratic party from top to bottom is responsible for this. They're bad at winning elections, the only reason we've had the presidency for these eight years is 1) Bush was Bush and 2) Obama's generationally unique charisma and savvy. The first step in fixing the problems we just elected is a complete shake down of the DNC There are literally tens of millions of registered Democrats to choose from and Obama was, rather famously, a political neophyte with a thin resume (much like our current President-Elect) so if you want another Obama the pool of potential candidates isn't even limited on that front. It would be absolutely trivial to find a similarly charismatic, savvy Democrat to bring large swaths of the country together and mobilize the millions to get out and vote if that was an actual priority for the DNC, but it wasn't. It was Her Turn, and that was the end of the matter.
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Nov 10, 2016 21:05
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chumbler posted:It is the voters' job to exercise their god damned right to vote. It isn't the party's job to hold their hand while they do it. Trump won, and it is in large part non-voters' fault. Period. People are naturally passive when it comes to politics. The GOP knows this, and their agents keep their voters constantly mobilized. Their party gets how things work. Hillary couldn't be bothered to do anything really to get her supporters out there. You can talk about the moral guilt of the non-voters in permitting Trump's victory, but the structural issue of why it technically happened is the DNC.
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Nov 10, 2016 21:05
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chumbler posted:Turns out a lot of democrats don't give a poo poo about trying to maintain social progress. Nah, I think it's just a lot of people don't like being ostracized
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Nov 10, 2016 21:05
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negromancer posted:Dylann Roof happened last year, fuckface. Yeah, and Dylann Roof falls under my "or" category. But keep on throwing out random insults, it's definitely helping your case.
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Nov 10, 2016 21:06
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HorseRenoir posted:my point is that eventually the buck has to stop with the voters. you can blame the DNC all you want but at the end of the day, a majority of white Dem voters saw what was coming and who would be affected, and decided they didn't care enough to fill out a single bubble on a sheet of paper. Because they know at the end of the day its a win-win and they don't really care enough about minorities to make the slimmest of sacrifices, like standing in line for a bit and voting.
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Nov 10, 2016 21:06
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Squashing Machine posted:All of these examples happened before the rise of the militarized police, or are objectively indistinguishable to declaring that you would have personally stopped the Sandy Hook massacre or the attempted assassination of Gabby Giffords. It is "good guy with a gun" rhetoric wrapped in a tarp. Your analogies aren't even close. We have evidence of it working in the past, and working in the present by other, actual violent organizations that are hostile to the police.
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Nov 10, 2016 21:06
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MickeyFinn posted:How does this work when the other party will just change to what you said plus more and by the way, <a racism>. Trump just made poo poo up to garner votes from white people and also engaged in racism, boasted about sexual assault and called one of his accusers ugly, claimed he would nuke the terrorists and turn NATO into a protection racket, and so on. And 50% of voters still voted for him. What policy proposals are better than fantasy? Maybe we should play realpolitik and throw racial, gender and sexual minorities under the bus to get back into power, but what proposals do you use when your opponent is saying he'll start trade wars? I don't agree with playing realpolitik in this case, but I can't even figure out how it could be done even if I wanted to. I genuinely don't know either man I'm just trying to stay positive about the future because we glimpsed the void and it swallowed us loving whole. We either figure out how to combat this stuff or we live in a Kafka-esque nightmare for the next decade.
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Nov 10, 2016 21:06
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My Linux Rig posted:Nah, I think it's just a lot of people don't like being ostracized but enough about people voting against Trump
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Nov 10, 2016 21:06
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You can't win on just saying the other guy is bad. If Hillary had Obama's numbers (or even 90% of them) she would have won. The issue is that at a certain point voting out of obligation isn't going to work because just enough people will stay home to swing it and we are seeing the fruits of that attitude today. People that threw minorities under the bus are bad and bear that shame but the party is an organization that exists to get votes. It's their job to get people there otherwise why even have them? They should have been doing a better job in the Rust Belt instead of wasting time in the south in a fit of hubris where Hillary thought she would wipe out Trump in a Reagan-esque wave. That part is on them. Eggplant Squire fucked around with this message at 21:08 on Nov 10, 2016 |
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Nov 10, 2016 21:06
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A Wizard of Goatse posted:It would be absolutely trivial to find a similarly charismatic, savvy Democrat to bring large swaths of the country together and mobilize the millions to get out and vote if that was an actual priority for the DNC, but it wasn't. It was Her Turn, and that was the end of the matter. So you're mad the DNC didn't rig the primary harder?
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