Peel posted:

Lastly when declaring that people shouldn't be angry or contemptuous of Trump or his supporters, recall that the Republican response to Obama was to immediately melt down about the socialist usurper, and this reaction delivered them the House, the Senate and ultimately the presidency. Perhaps a hard line against Trump, rather than increasing his support, would reduce it by demoralising his softer supporters and hardening opposition, particularly in the wake of his inevitable bungling. The exhortations not to oppose Trumpists are both based on an unsafe assumption and asking something inhuman of people in the firing line of the most repulsive figure to ever assume the presidency.

Sheng-ji Yang posted:

https://twitter.com/nytimes/status/796831076886970368

jesus christ

Full Fascism Now

Pick posted:

Clinton was between a rock and a hard place on appealing to women. Feminism is very divided, enough that I would say even "2nd wave" and "3rd wave" are not distinguishing enough to properly communicate the magnitude of the difference. The first type is primarily grounded in economics. For example, things we take for granted now but needed to fight for: bank accounts without a male co-signer, can't be fired for pregnancy, can't be denied services on the basis of sex. The second is grounded on social behavior. For example, cat-calling, media representation, marketing/body image. I genuinely think Clinton cared more about the former, but campaigned heavily on the latter. Women who are older and who are poor care more about the former, in my experience--and in many cases it is justified, because a person's first priority is food on the table. That is why Taylor Swift weighing in would not do anything to change a Trump-voting woman's mind.

Pick posted:

Oh, and to be honest, there's an equivalent "deplorables" attitude towards second-wave feminists that has driven a lot of them into FYGM territory. People tend to think "political correctness" is a white men v. everybody proposition, and that is a huge oversimplification. A lot of older, 50-something white women do not like being chastised by tattooed, pierced, poly millennial women with undercuts. Whether it's justified or not, knowing as many older women as I do, I am confident this phenomenon is very real. Progressivism can't take women for granted either, and can't condescend to them. A lot of people are pissed at the idea they have to be in lock-step with the loudest voice in the room.

Dapper_Swindler posted:

whats the difference between 2nd and 3rd. because i know nutjobs like Dworkins started damaging feminism pretty bad.

Sheng-ji Yang posted:

https://twitter.com/nytimes/status/796831076886970368

jesus christ

Full Fascism Now

guts and bolts posted:

gently caress Donald Trump, and goddamn it I cannot understand what leads someone to vote for him given his history and personality and qualifications and Trumpness, but taking a hard line against Trump is possible without permanently alienating the people who put him in office; I'm not advocating that we take it easy on ol' Don, but to dismiss his win as a victory of white nationalism and bigotry is short-sighted and a good way to just keep losing

For as much as some people are talking about how Clinton didn't lose because of identity politics or whatever, it has to also be acknowledged that Trump didn't win because of loving sexism/racism, he won because Hillary loving sucked and lost white voters by a 21-point margin

The fact that his numbers were equal to or lesser than polling numbers in previous elections just makes me believe even more that Trump wasn't voted in because people like him or believe in him - he's just a colossal "gently caress You" to the Left, express delivered by those who see themselves as Not-Left, and Hillary generated so little support and enthusiasm that everybody else just stayed home

quote:

Now that I've recovered from my election night hangover and blues, I'm just writing to strongly suggest that the Progressive Caucus take an active role in bridging the the enthusiasm chasm to the working class. It is ridiculous that our party can have such poor engagement with what should be their core constituency. The DNC needs to clean house.

I recently moved into your district prior to this election from the Milwaukee/Ozaukee area of Wisconsin and can tell you that Bernie Sanders captured the heart of the working class in that area. I have never seen so much open support for progressive ideals, even in my conservative workplace, than I did during the Democratic primaries.

My coworkers were crushed when Bernie Sanders lost the nomination, and truly believed he had been systematically cheated by a corrupt establishment. All break room political issue discourse died. Yard signs came down, Bernie bumper stickers went away and nothing replaced them.

I can't believe how much money the HRC campaign spent to campaign for Donald Trump by airing ad after ad showing his engagement with the working class and contrasting it with 'hip' media and social messaging with rich celebrities and actors. She insisted that America is already great in a time when plant after plant is being totally closed or bought out and 'restructured' (i.e. fire the most expensive 10-20% of the rank and file and replace them with new, desperate blood) while the owners laugh all the way to the bank. The prior CEO of my old company literally held a company wide meeting where he thanked us all for "earning him his reward" (Literally said this, it was about 2 million dollars) after reneging on 1k to 10k bonus promises to the blue collar in the sprint to the sale of the company. HOW DOES THE DNC LOSE THESE VOTERS?

Let's find out:

People hate working manufacturing jobs in toxic environments. Put yourself in the shoes of a 30 year old blue collar worker working overtime because his wife's pregnant and they are finally going to start a family. He sees his coworkers injured and missing work, people getting written up for specious reasons and fired as scapegoats for management failures, and experiences no significant opportunity or advancement in role or income. He's making barely enough to consider attaining his trice compromised personal goals while praying he doesn't step on a proverbial land mine and arbitrarily lose it all.

These are people without the mobility to market their limited skills to the national market. They are 'stuck' in their community and have to pray for the middle management to double their personal income by fleeing the state to get a 1/50 shot at moving up the ladder for half that manager's old salary. Their only alternatives are making great sacrifices to earn a near useless online degree and hope they can lie enough about how their rote manufacturing job applies on their resumes to land something better.

My coworkers slowly went from joking supporting Donald Trump to actually supporting him as it became increasingly clear to them that HRC and the DNC had no intention of seriously addressing the single most important issue in their lives: Earning enough money to be self sufficient and finally start or fully support their families. They may not seriously believe DJT will be able to improve their lot but trying something is a lot better than pretending the problem doesn't exist or worse is created and actively supported by the policies of their nominee.

Ken Bone asked the most important question for them. They are smart enough to extrapolate the existing trends to more than just the coal industry and environmental regulation. Ken Bone was asking for an assurance that the bleeding would be staunched and workers protected when their government or market forces seriously hurt their livelihoods.

DJT spent the entire two minutes directly appealing to people who have seen their companies bought out, restructured and seen their coworkers lives ruined. He counter-argues HRC's case of America already being great and spends the whole question speaking directly to them. He acknowledges their grievances and sounds like he will fight for them with specific relief.

HRC's answer to them feels like out of touch rambling about global chess games and big interests and ends on a poorly structured 'we've got to do something', please visit my website. It may be unfair but the working class voter I know would have heard this answer as we're not doing dick for you as the financial elite, foreign interests and environment are more important than your livelihood. Even platitudes suggesting that the government would directly support transitions of HS degree blue collar to the BS+ high tech solar jobs is better than what she said. Instead, she gave a policy driven big picture answer to a visceral fear driven question regarding income security.

I'm probably just one voice of many. I strongly feel that in the absence of serious change in the party structure we haven't a prayer of being a majority party in the next twenty years, especially if DJT actually follows through with even the smallest degree of his promise to support the white working class.

Pick posted:

2nd wave: pay us equally, stop raping us
3rd wave: burlesque is empowering, anything lena dunham does

Zikan posted:

you gotta remember that for the white working class vote, obama portrayed himself in 2012 as saving the auto industry (i.e. thousands of jobs in the rust belt) vs. a chariticure of gordan geeko / i.e. economic populism vs a technocrat

imagine if hillary had invested in ads like this one from the steelworkers instead of "Trump's crazy lol" *ukalele & glockenspiel music*

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h7oxlTfqYk0

Dapper_Swindler posted:

well where do the sex negative ones fit in, because see them on twitter alot.

Zikan posted:

you gotta remember that for the white working class vote, obama portrayed himself in 2012 as saving the auto industry (i.e. thousands of jobs in the rust belt) vs. a chariticure of gordan geeko / i.e. economic populism vs a technocrat

imagine if hillary had invested in ads like this one from the steelworkers instead of "Trump's crazy lol" *ukalele & glockenspiel music*

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h7oxlTfqYk0

GlyphGryph posted:

Yes, exactly, the Republicans melted down and *still* didn't attack their own base (at least as far as I could remember) or the voters they needed to swing things - they attacked the guy they wanted to defeat.

Attacking, opposing, and delegitimizing Trump is fine and desireable. Being contemptous of his supporters is just going to make them cling to him harder.

Pick posted:

2nd wave: pay us equally, stop raping us
3rd wave: burlesque is empowering, anything lena dunham does

mastershakeman posted:

considering that two straight white Christian men were just elected in recommending the Democrats find some of those are their candidates

Pick posted:

Oh, and to be honest, there's an equivalent "deplorables" attitude towards second-wave feminists that has driven a lot of them into FYGM territory. People tend to think "political correctness" is a white men v. everybody proposition, and that is a huge oversimplification. A lot of older, 50-something white women do not like being chastised by tattooed, pierced, poly millennial women with undercuts. Whether it's justified or not, knowing as many older women as I do, I am confident this phenomenon is very real. Progressivism can't take women for granted either, and can't condescend to them. A lot of people are pissed at the idea they have to be in lock-step with the loudest voice in the room.

Pener Kropoopkin posted:

Zach rules

https://www.facebook.com/madeinrussianfederation/videos/711103479043344/

quote:

Schale, who briefly advised a group dedicated to urging Vice President Joe Biden to enter the Democratic race last year, couldn't help but wonder what could have been.

"Biden-world is gonna need collective therapy," he said.

Condiv posted:

Zikan posted:

*lights the sherrod brown signal*

Sheng-ji Yang posted:

https://twitter.com/nytimes/status/796831076886970368

jesus christ

Full Fascism Now

Peel posted:

Lastly when declaring that people shouldn't be angry or contemptuous of Trump or his supporters, recall that the Republican response to Obama was to immediately melt down about the socialist usurper, and this reaction delivered them the House, the Senate and ultimately the presidency.

Fullhouse posted:

turns out Smug Liberal syndrome is real and alienating and we need to bring that thread back

HannibalBarca posted:

He'll need to survive 2018 first

Condiv posted:

crazy cloud posted:

for real tho all hetero sex is rape because there's an underlying power dynamic of male supremacy that makes uncoerced consent impossible welp lmao cya

mastershakeman posted:

where can I order a bunch of these

mastershakeman posted:

nice. real nice

Oh Snapple! posted:

Someone in this forum once joked that American feminism is about putting women in a position to oppress the underclass and I sometimes fear that this was not only not a joke for a chunk of feminists, but applies to other social movements as well.

Mormon Star Wars posted:

DNC throws Muslims under the bus consistently for the last year and a half and then wonders why so many in Michigan voted third party. Hmmmmmm.