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Bel_Canto posted:someone's already made threats of violence against a gay Episcopalian priest in new jersey. i'm sure there are more threats to clergy that i don't know about. everyone, please pray for the safety of clergy, pastors, and houses of worship: lots of people are going to need them
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Nov 10, 2016 20:17
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Hey skinhead antifa do god's work bashing nazis and I will hear nothing against them
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Nov 10, 2016 20:35
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Mo Tzu posted:Hey skinhead antifa do god's work bashing nazis and I will hear nothing against them
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Nov 10, 2016 20:57
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:The answer to your question is in the article. No worries, I ain't even trying any longer HEY GAL posted:they were, as tias will probably remind us, the original skinheads as well Naw, traditional skinheads were black, but mostly cared about dancing and football. The formation of specifically antifascist skinhead milieus only happened in the 80s after neo-nazism started co-opting the traditional style.
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Nov 10, 2016 22:35
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There's some surprising depth to skindheadism, apparently
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Nov 10, 2016 22:40
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JcDent posted:There's some surprising depth to skindheadism, apparently It gets around. For instance, Red and Anarchist Skin Heads (RASH  ) was formed after black SHARP members killed a gay man back in the late eighties. Today there are tons of active fraction, including a large gay/lesbian skinhead scene  Just don't ask me about shoelaces, I'll be fine /shakes
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Nov 10, 2016 22:43
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Well, I don't know if skins are relevant in Lithuaniania. If you're bald, you might belong to either the slav-squatting, phone-stealing kind or be a nationalist metalhead. It's sad that nationalism is kinda pervasive in the metal scene. OTOH, I don't listen to music or go to concerts, so whatever.
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Nov 10, 2016 22:55
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Mo Tzu posted:Hey skinhead antifa do god's work bashing nazis and I will hear nothing against them is it ok if i'm praying for you 
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Nov 10, 2016 23:01
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that's cool. i have no problem with people praying for me if they so desire
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Nov 10, 2016 23:08
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Could I ask your prayers, for tam-nonlinear? She committed suicide yesterday in despair over the upcoming loss of her health care. (The details are from Elizabeth Bear -- matociquala -- Twitter.) http://tam-nonlinear.tumblr.com/
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Nov 10, 2016 23:33
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Traditionally the following combination of prayers is said for the dead around here: Our Father, which art in heaven, hallowed be thy name; thy kingdom come; thy will be done, in earth as it is in heaven. Give us this day our daily bread. And forgive us our trespasses, as we forgive them that trespass against us. And lead us not into temptation; but deliver us from evil. Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with thee; blessed art thou amongst women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb, Jesus. Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners, now and at the hour of our death. Amen. O Lord, give her eternal rest, and may the Eternal Light shine for her. Lord, let her rest in peace. Amen. I fear that she won't be the last. I pray for you all 
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Nov 11, 2016 00:09
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it's what they wanted http://www.khou.com/news/local/texas/texas-state-police-looking-into-trump-vigilante-fliers-found-on-campus/350672996
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Nov 11, 2016 00:14
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System Metternich posted:Traditionally the following combination of prayers is said for the dead around here: I was introduced to St. Gertrude's prayer last Sunday, which is: quote:Eternal Father, I offer Thee the Most Precious Blood of Thy Divine Son, Jesus, in union with the masses said throughout the world today, for all the holy souls in purgatory, for sinners everywhere, for sinners in the universal church, those in my own home and within my family. Amen. Which is used specifically to pray for redemption of both the dead and the living. Catholicism: Not even death will save you from our prayerful intentions.
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Nov 11, 2016 01:00
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Yo Christian goons. I can't believe I had to do it but somebody claimed that Trump was somehow a Christian choice and I had say something. Please seek these people out, because even if big name evangelicals came out against Trump there are still some people who think that God is just behind anyone with an (R) after their name. Please point out... literally almost anything that Jesus is recorded as saying. It's one thing to talk about a guy like Romney or Bush not really getting the message of the Gospels. It's quite another to pick fights with the Pope and be in more-or-less open defiance of the book you can find in just about every house in America. Now of course there are lots of people who feel the ends justify the means on abortion - don't give anyone the satisfaction of saying the word, just play this for them and point out that Trump might not be such a great friend: https://my.mixtape.moe/qwdohl.webm I think that we as Christians have dropped the ball on this one. Any possible association of Trump with Jesus needed to be shot down, and maybe I personally didn't just because I didn't think anyone seriously believed it. Or maybe I didn't feel like I was a good enough Christian to go seeking out that conversation. Well they do and that needs to be fixed. And you don't need to be a good Christian or even a Christian at all to go to the Jesus wikiquote page.
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Nov 11, 2016 01:50
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twerking on the railroad posted:Any possible association of Trump with Jesus needed to be shot down, and maybe I personally didn't just because I didn't think anyone seriously believed it. https://www.amazon.com/Holy-Reich-Conceptions-Christianity-1919-1945/dp/0521603528
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Nov 11, 2016 02:07
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please pray for the soul of Leonard Cohen, one of the great religious songwriters of our age. may his memory be a blessing
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Nov 11, 2016 03:53
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twerking on the railroad posted:I think that we as Christians have dropped the ball on this one. Any possible association of Trump with Jesus needed to be shot down, and maybe I personally didn't just because I didn't think anyone seriously believed it. Or maybe I didn't feel like I was a good enough Christian to go seeking out that conversation. Well they do and that needs to be fixed. And you don't need to be a good Christian or even a Christian at all to go to the Jesus wikiquote page. I am with you here in the fullness of spirit. Donald Trump does not come in the name of the Lord. His message is anti-gospel and unChristlike, and Jesus does not let me ignore that.
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Nov 11, 2016 04:33
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Bel_Canto posted:please pray for the soul of Leonard Cohen, one of the great religious songwriters of our age. may his memory be a blessing What the gently caress, 2016? Imma be down in the catacombs till 2018. Send Mass cards and gin.
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Nov 11, 2016 04:49
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Arsenic Lupin posted:Could I ask your prayers, for tam-nonlinear? She committed suicide yesterday in despair over the upcoming loss of her health care. (The details are from Elizabeth Bear -- matociquala -- Twitter.) http://tam-nonlinear.tumblr.com/ Saddened that the gospel didn't reach this individual. twerking on the railroad posted:Yo Christian goons. I can't believe I had to do it but somebody claimed that Trump was somehow a Christian choice and I had say something. Please seek these people out, because even if big name evangelicals came out against Trump there are still some people who think that God is just behind anyone with an (R) after their name. Please point out... literally almost anything that Jesus is recorded as saying. It's one thing to talk about a guy like Romney or Bush not really getting the message of the Gospels. It's quite another to pick fights with the Pope and be in more-or-less open defiance of the book you can find in just about every house in America. I do it literally every single day. Just this afternoon I went on a tirade against my own brother, my only sibling, after he reposted a racist video from Uncle Sam's Misguided Children. 24 years ago my father, a Lutheran pastor, named him Christian, and I said the following towards the end of the discussion: "seriously this stuff is garbage and antithetical to your given first name. Jesus Christ." And I'm not sorry about it at all. I love taking right-wing CINOs' faith to task. Gives me kind of an Elijah feeling, mocking their appeals to the free market, as if somehow those policies would ever hope to parallel what charity alone will never cover. I'm very often alone in doing so. Other left-minded friends of mine (pretty much exclusively atheists or agnostics) either unfriend those types of people or stay silent out of fear or "tolerance". My coworker today wanted to deactivate Facebook to get away from it all but ended up not doing so because it was tied to her Spotify account. Pathetic. Running away is the furthest thing from my mind. You're probably going to find my phrasing terrible or inexcusable, but I think the silver lining of a trump presidency is that whiny SJWs will finally be forced to stand up for themselves and acknowledge that there are very real colorblind "economic anxieties" that have nothing to do with your swim-suit zone or your skin tone's melanin count. They need to help me get those CINOs to realize what "whatever you do for the least of my brothers you do for me" really means on a group, macro level. They need to be reminded that if they really believe the whole Bible is inerrant, how to reconcile James chapter 5 with their worldview. It's high time to be strong as hell while also being as kind as Christ.
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Nov 11, 2016 06:50
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Jedi Knight Luigi posted:I think the silver lining of a trump presidency is that whiny SJWs will finally be forced to stand up for themselves and acknowledge that there are very real colorblind "economic anxieties" that have nothing to do with your swim-suit zone or your skin tone's melanin count. HEY GUNS fucked around with this message at 12:13 on Nov 11, 2016 |
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Nov 11, 2016 07:23
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Jedi Knight Luigi posted:Running away is the furthest thing from my mind. You're probably going to find my phrasing terrible or inexcusable, but I think the silver lining of a trump presidency is that whiny SJWs will finally be forced to stand up for themselves and acknowledge that there are very real colorblind "economic anxieties" that have nothing to do with your swim-suit zone or your skin tone's melanin count. They need to help me get those CINOs to realize what "whatever you do for the least of my brothers you do for me" really means on a group, macro level. I don't think I fully understood what you are saying. Could you please expand? My English might be failing me here. Also, what's a CINO.
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Nov 11, 2016 07:29
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JcDent posted:I don't think I fully understood what you are saying. Could you please expand? My English might be failing me here. "INO" usually means "in name only." He's saying that their faith isn't real because he finds it distasteful. I also find it distasteful, but to get from there to it being fake seems awfully facile to me.
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Nov 11, 2016 07:35
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Jedi Knight Luigi posted:I'm very often alone in doing so. Other left-minded friends of mine (pretty much exclusively atheists or agnostics) either unfriend those types of people or stay silent out of fear or "tolerance". My coworker today wanted to deactivate Facebook to get away from it all but ended up not doing so because it was tied to her Spotify account. Pathetic. HEY GUNS fucked around with this message at 11:37 on Nov 11, 2016 |
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Nov 11, 2016 11:06
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Jedi Knight Luigi posted:Saddened that the gospel didn't reach this individual. That is not how suicide and suicidal ideation work. This person was sick, suicidiality is a symptom even us Christians can have. This stressor, combined with other factors led to the suicide, not a lack of faith. Don't you dare make someone reading this thread think they don't love God if they struggle with suicidal ideation.
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Nov 11, 2016 11:16
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Thirteen Orphans posted:That is not how suicide and suicidal ideation work. This person was sick, suicidiality is a symptom even us Christians can have. This stressor, combined with other factors led to the suicide, not a lack of faith. as far as i know, the orthodox position (or a orthodox position I was exposed to) is that demons tempt you to do it. Coming under attack doesn't mean you're a bad person, or irreligious.
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Nov 11, 2016 11:20
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HEY GAL posted:catholic doctrine has reflected this, right? that if you commit suicide while the balance of your mind is disturbed it's as if a disease killed you. I was the Catholic representative at an interfaith conference and the question of suicide popped up. I joked, "well I've got a cleric and a theologian staring me down, so here's what I got:" and I said that if a suicide happened it is usually because someone is sick, and it was the sickness that caused the act, thus the person had no agency. The priest in the audience, very conservative, said, "I would say that suicide is so against our nature it is impossible to commit suicide with full agency." Clearly saying suicide is never a sin we can be culpable of. Thirteen Orphans fucked around with this message at 11:34 on Nov 11, 2016 |
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Nov 11, 2016 11:25
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Jedi Knight Luigi posted:And I'm not sorry about it at all. I love taking right-wing CINOs' faith to task. Gives me kind of an Elijah feeling, mocking their appeals to the free market, as if somehow those policies would ever hope to parallel what charity alone will never cover. Well sometimes people stay silent to avoid adding another voice to the screaming cacophony of opinions. I have sympathy for that view. I'm only wading in at all because this is beyond the point of opinions. It's a simple fact that if you look at Jesus' words you would have to get very creative indeed to interpret any support for a man like Trump. I can accept someone voting for Trump or anyone else for personal, worldly reasons, because we all can have our own opinions. If you vote saying that it's a Christian choice though, by definition you need Christ to back you up on that and not hold.. scorn for your choice as you see in Jesus' words. I am not a preacher, nor even a particularly good Christian, and I certainly don't want to delude myself into a righteous feeling. I can read, and I care. That's it.
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Nov 11, 2016 11:33
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Lots of Orthodox hagiographies mention people who were saved from suicidal thoughts by the intercession of saints, and the narrative there is usually that the sufferer felt some "outside force" speaking to them or manipulating them. To say whether or not traditionalist Orthodox people "really do" hear/feel those things when they are suicidal would go into questions of culturebound syndromes or comparative mental health, which is fascinating but insanely complicated to think about, but that is the way suicide is traditionally framed.
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Nov 11, 2016 11:33
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I read an insanely interesting article recently that touched on early modern attitudes towards and superstitions about suicidequote:Lutherans rejected the category of mortal sin. Distinguishing between greater and lesser sins was beside the point since all sin was the expression of human nature utterly corrupted by the fall and would result in damnation unless God forgave the sinner. The suicide died unrepentant in the act of sinning, so it was likely that he or she died an unjustified sinner outside the state of grace. Unlike the Catholic Church, however, the Lutheran Church made no definite pronouncements on the fate of believers to be able to be able to resist diabolical temptations to suicide, but Lutherans placed greater emphasis on the power of Satan. "I do not agree," Luther wrote, "that those who kill themselves are simply damned, for this reason, that they do not do it gladly, but are rather overpowered by the power of the devil, like one who is murdered in the woods by a robber." Describing suicides more as Satan's victims than willing accomplices, Luther held out the possibility that God had forgiven them and they might yet be saved. God's judgment in these matters was inscrutable. Luther did not want his lenient views on suicide to become public knowledge, however. "Common people should not be told [that suicides do not necessarily go to hell], so that Satan is not given the chance of causing a bloodbath, and I approve of the strict observance of those political ceremonies by which [the body] is dragged through the threshold, etc." Here Luther was endorsing the rites of desecration to which bodies of suicides were traditionally subjected by secular authorities (hence "political ceremonies"), but he viewed such measures as a means of deterrence rather than as a statement of the suicide's spiritual status. Lutherans did refuse to bury suicides in graveyards; however, they regarded funeral ceremonies an aid for the living rather than for the dead, who were beyond human help. Lutherans no longer consecrated cemeteries, a rite they abolished along with all other sacramentals. Therefore, exclusion from the graveyard did not constitute a denial of the "means of grace" as it did for Catholics; rather, it was an honor punishment and measure of church discipline. So it used to be the Catholic position that suicide was giving in to diabolical temptation, whereas Lutherans believed that those commiting suicide were in fact possessed. In Catholic areas at least, people tried to combat suicidal urges by religious means: quote:After the Catholic miller "S. A." from Hilpoltstein in Bavaria unsuccessfully tried to cut the throat of his five-year-old son in 1724 [the article is actually about "suicides by proxy", i.e. suicidal people murdering others, mostly children and often their own, in the hope of being executed], he was cured of his mental distress by going on a pilgrimage to the nearby Jesuit shrine of Heilig Kreuz in Bergen, near Neuburg an der Donau. The cure was not permanent, however. Twenty one years later he cut the throat of his nine-year-old daughter. "It was a gift from God," he told his interrogators, that he had killed his child and not himself, "for in the contrary case he would have gone to the devil with body and soul." The Silesian Catholic peasant Hans-Christian Henatschel cut the throat of his nine week-old baby in 1762, after praying to the saints and engaging in a Friday fast failed to stave off his suicidal urges. The attitude expressed by "S. A." there was not uncommon; in 1554, a Flemish scholar wrote that suicide was in fact worse than murder, because while the latter only destroyed a body, the former destroyed both body and soul. This was reprinted almost verbatim two centuries later by the (Protestant) Zedler Encyclopedia, which shows just how prevalent this belief was. The article also mentions some of the superstitions people had about suicide victims. quote:In both Catholic and Protestant regions the disposal of the suicide's remains was the responsibility of secular authorities, a task they conferred upon the dishonorable professions of executioner and skinner. In Bavaria the executioner or skinner buried suicides "at a secluded place where neither man nor beast treads"; other options were cremation, disposal in a river, or burial beneath the gallows. In Augsburg suicides of both confessions were nailed into a barrel and cast in the river Lech. In Wiirttemberg the executioner or skinner buried the suicide either in a desolate location or, if the suicide had a particularly bad reputation in life, underneath the gallows. In Schleswig and Holstein the executioner buried suicides in a field or with animal carrion. The transport of the body to the burial site sometimes involved additional apotropaic measures designed to prevent the suicide's return as a malicious revenant. To prevent the suicide from finding his or her way home, the body was removed through a hole dug underneath the threshold rather than through the door, a procedure ecclesiastical and secular authorities tolerated though they did not officially authorize it. In Nuremberg the bodies of suicides were lowered out of windows. The religious ban on suicide wasn't absolute, however: as early as the 12th century, Catholic theologians postulated that those who were driven to suicide by madness couldn't and shouldn't be judged. The Lutheran churches continued this policy. In the Early Modern Era, both ecclesiastical and temporal authorities would research a suicide and try to find out whether the victim had been of sound mind or not. If the latter case was present, the victims could yet be buried properly, though even then stuff like funeral processions or the ringing of bells was mostly left out. Many of the deeply superstitious laity of both denominations were appalled by this, however, and we have lots of reports of riots breaking out after a suicide victim being buried in this manner. By now, the Catholic position is much simpler: The Catechism posted:2280 Everyone is responsible for his life before God who has given it to him. Sorry for busting out a historian's ramblings on a topic as delicate as this, but I just wanted to share this ridiculously cool article with you 
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Nov 11, 2016 14:34
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That brings up something I was wondering about a while ago. When did suicide 'officially' become a grave sin in the Christian faith? The Bible doesn't seem to say much on the subject one way or the other, and I remember reading about an early Christian sect that actually viewed suicide as akin to martyrdom.
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Nov 11, 2016 17:55
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Samuel Clemens posted:That brings up something I was wondering about a while ago. When did suicide 'officially' become a grave sin in the Christian faith? The Bible doesn't seem to say much on the subject one way or the other, and I remember reading about an early Christian sect that actually viewed suicide as akin to martyrdom. While the Bible doesn't say much, don't forget that the most prominent suicide in there is by none other than Judas Iscariot, who isn't exactly presented as a role model. The sect you're speaking of would be the Donatists (and their more radical offshoot, the Circumcellions); maybe it's their attitude towards suicide that moved St Augustine to wholly denounce suicide as a sin in the early 5th century. The case wasn't entirely clear-cut before; Jewish religious law was always uneasy with suicide, and they were/are, in theory at least, buried in a separated part of the graveyard. There are examples of Jews who chose suicide to escape dishonour, though, with Samson or King Saul being prominent examples. Romans and Greeks were pretty relaxed concerning suicide, though Aristotle and possibly Plato as well opposed it. I've also read that in Athens, suicide without the explicit permission of the state was disallowed as well; the victims would be buried outside of the city in this case. Greco-Roman stories abound with honourable soldiers and officers falling on their own sword than conceding defeat to the enemy, though. Early Christianity too regarded suicide as a possibly virtuous act - Eusebius writes of two young Christian women in Antioch who killed themselves to avoid being raped by a roving band of soldiers. Augustine comes back to this example and says that they should rather have suffered the rape than kill themselves. For Augustine, purity is a state of mind which may survive even a horrible experience like rape, whereas suicide is a direct violation of the fifth Commandment; a sin that, by design, cannot be confessed and repented and which consequently cannot be forgiven (though Augustine makes an exception: when God personally orders you to commit suicide, then it's cool  ) Augustine was super important in this regard (as in virtually everything else), and by the sixth century suicide starts to become a secular crime as well.
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Nov 11, 2016 19:49
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Voluntary martyrdom (i.e., you hear the Romans are coming to your city to persecute Christians, so you go confront them and turn yourself in while probably making a big public display of your faith) was condemned by the early church fathers. We have secular sources that inform us that voluntary martyrdom was certainly existent in the early church; Gnaeus Arrius Antonius, while proconsul to Asia ca. AD 78, was rather shocked at Christians just voluntarily turning themselves in to be martyred. He is recorded as responding to voluntary martyrs with ""If you want to die, you wretches, you can use ropes or precipices."" The reason for the early church fathers gave for avoiding voluntary martyrdom is that you would be culpable in assisting in your own murder, a mortal sin. Modern Catholics would call it voluntary cooperation with evil, I suppose. This would be extended later by other early church fathers, with Peter of Alexandria having the strongest view against voluntary martyrdom, saying that Christians should flee from cities where persecution is happening or use bribery to survive, just so that they did not share in culpability for sin with their murderers. Also I seriously didn't know suicide by proxy was a thing. That's...certainly horrifying.
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Nov 11, 2016 21:48
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However, sacrificing yourself to save others is ok
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Nov 11, 2016 21:51
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Hey Jedi knight Luigi "sjws" are aware of poverty you jackass. Guess what, the bathing suit area is a cause of emotional and physical distress for many people and the few advances we've had in getting Medicare and Medicaid to cover procedures is going to be rolled back by these fuckheads, which will limit people's access to medical transition which will affect their mental and physical health. Oh and I think you mentioned your homophobia before? Guess what, LGBT protections with respect to housing and employment are sparse at best and rely on the few federal regulations that are now going bye bye. Not to mention getting a passport is going to be harder, which restricts people like me's ability to move between borders which is a human rights violation but this is only a man who thinks electric shocks make you not gay or trans. He clearly doesn't give two shits about human rights. So now if you're trans and want a job you have to pass as cis, have had all your documents updated, wipe all traces of who you were off the Internet, and keep your mouth shut. But, if you noticed, access to transition related healthcare is no longer going to be covered by the federal government which impedes many people from being able to pass as cis. Essentially mike pencil dick just made a machine that takes people already vulnerable and takes away what little they had to keep them impoverished, imprisoned (because sex work, drug dealing, stealing, and other crimes become the only way a person can eat and live when they're denied access to the economy), and ultimately in the closet. I've seen people suicidal because of this. I've seen people consider detransitioning because of this. I've seen people despair because they have no idea how to get out of this cycle and just had the last hope they had for progress thrown away by a country motivated by hate. And you have the gall to act like "bathing suit" issues are somehow separate from poverty? Take it from someone much smarter, more empathetic, and more experienced than you; that poo poo's connected. Race and poverty, gender and poverty (and not just transgender; look into single mother families and the bullshit this country does to keep them impoverished for daring to not have a man in the house), sexuality and poverty, these things are loving connected you arrogant piece of garbage. Read a book for God's sake and stop acting like you're not at all part of the problem mister gay sex is a sin.
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Nov 11, 2016 21:52
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What problems will arguing on the internet solve
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Nov 11, 2016 22:21
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Smoking Crow posted:What problems will arguing on the internet solve it beats de facto telling people to shut up when they're opening up their heart about the bad things they face
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Nov 11, 2016 22:27
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Maintaining your capacity for fury is healthy when your friends are dying and the thing that's killing them is trying to make itself the new normal.
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Nov 11, 2016 22:27
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Smoking Crow posted:What problems will arguing on the internet solve the problem of me not arguing on the internet also the problem of me feeling good about myself
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Nov 11, 2016 22:36
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Tias posted:Found it! Getting in late with my response, but was totally just teasing you. If I'd wanted to be mean I'd have called you a swamp Swede.  I'm also not seriously thinking about moving abroad. As morbid of a thought as it is, I'm a Protestant cis white dude. Things are gonna be poo poo here (and in Europe which already has far-right nationalist parties in power) but it's going to be way worse for any type of minority. I feel like I'm better off staying here and working for political change and to protect victimized minorities than moving abroad. I do private tutoring on the side, several of my students are Muslim and have been asking me for months if Trump was going to win and I said no! Nothing to worry about, look at all the polls. Now they're all terrified and I feel kinda lovely for being so wrong.
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Nov 12, 2016 00:06
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Mo Tzu posted:Oh and I think you mentioned your homophobia before? Guess what, LGBT protections with respect to housing and employment are sparse at best and rely on the few federal regulations that are now going bye bye. the us state that luigi and i reside in has had these protections since the 1980s i am very very concerned about what could happen over the next 2-8 years to many people i know. my queer friends, immigrant friends, muslim (and other non-christian) friends, and I'm even concerned about myself because I belong to certain demographics that are generally invisible and misunderstood in our country. but i must strongly disagree with your call to disregard facts, demonize an Other, and call for murder. i cannot see how this is acceptable in any way
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Nov 12, 2016 00:26
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