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jaete posted:My original point was that if you say "communism" and in fact mean "Sweden", then you're dumb and don't know what words mean. That point stands
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# ? Nov 11, 2016 13:56 |
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# ? Jun 6, 2024 07:34 |
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furiouskoala posted:What's racist about it? The only good it'll do is giving some people their moral jollies. Refugees aren't going to help the economy. I don't care what race or color they are, we don't need to take on any refugees right now. Ah, I bask in the sociopathy. We were going to take less than a hundred thousand refugees, do you have any concept of how little money that would cost in the grand scheme of the American budget? Poor Americans weren't getting denied help because we wanted to save people from war - wars that we caused - they're not getting help because rich people are pricks.
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# ? Nov 11, 2016 13:56 |
Judakel posted:There is a way to know and I just explained it. No, they haven't held completely different position over the past 28 years. Even 36 years. Very good.
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# ? Nov 11, 2016 13:58 |
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furiouskoala posted:What's racist about it? The only good it'll do is giving some people their moral jollies. Refugees aren't going to help the economy. I don't care what race or color they are, we don't need to take on any refugees right now. this is untrue. they can work and they can bring unique experiences and perspectives that lead to new ideas that grow our economy. the issue is to make sure that the american people are taken care of too and we haven't been doing that. nafta was a terrible idea for example and dems supporting it have gained temporary power in exchange for loving over blue collar workers.
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# ? Nov 11, 2016 14:02 |
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jBrereton posted:"You see although the democrats and republicans have been playing chess, and the dems just lost, the democrats used their pieces more like checkers pieces so they would have won if they were playing that instead." You understood nothing of what I said. I was as clear as one can be, and you still missed it.
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# ? Nov 11, 2016 14:01 |
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Lightning Knight posted:Ah, I bask in the sociopathy. We were going to take less than a hundred thousand refugees, do you have any concept of how little money that would cost in the grand scheme of the American budget? Poor Americans weren't getting denied help because we wanted to save people from war - wars that we caused - they're not getting help because rich people are pricks. It doesn't matter what the reality is when it comes to voters, it's the perception of it.
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# ? Nov 11, 2016 14:01 |
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Bad Decision Dino posted:No, my answer is still communism. Eventually all jobs will be replaced by robots, and the only solution is that we all own the robots. Sweden only came up because people claimed that sharing the wealth created by the means of production will inevitably lead to a horrible USSR-murder state, and I disagreed. That none of this leads you to question the "common sense" about "commies" americans are all taught in school is going to make things harder for you in the long run, but at least you've realized that the liberal capitalist End of History stuff is just hubris. As Rosa said, Socialism or Barbarism. Try for the former before you get trapped in some insane system of rentism or destroy the planet or something. HorseLord fucked around with this message at 14:05 on Nov 11, 2016 |
# ? Nov 11, 2016 14:02 |
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furiouskoala posted:It doesn't matter what the reality is when it comes to voters, it's the perception of it. Oh good so you admit that in reality Syrian refugees aren't a problem and yet you still voted against them. So you're an rear end in a top hat. Literally "I don't care that they're running from a war we're responsible for, America first." I hope California secedes, gently caress America.
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# ? Nov 11, 2016 14:03 |
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Their flawed perception of reality doesn't absolve them of their bigotry and also p cool of you to be dismissive of people trying to escape a war zone our country is involved in.
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# ? Nov 11, 2016 14:05 |
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furiouskoala posted:It doesn't matter what the reality is when it comes to voters, it's the perception of it. Uh, yeah, but your perception is flawed, and you apparently are aware of it? In that case it's not a valid defense for your stance.
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# ? Nov 11, 2016 14:04 |
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Lightning Knight posted:Oh good so you admit that in reality Syrian refugees aren't a problem and yet you still voted against them. So you're an rear end in a top hat. California, where eugenics is from.
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# ? Nov 11, 2016 14:05 |
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Inferior Third Season posted:lol. Take a look at the Senate seats that are up for election in 2018. Democrats will be lucky if they only lose two or three. The Democrats had a good year in 2006 when they took poo poo seriously and forced the GOP to defend seats. Captured the House, the Senate, and the majority of governorships and statehouses. We need a fifty-state strategy again and I think we're going to get it. We should have been doing it all along.
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# ? Nov 11, 2016 14:05 |
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jaete posted:My original point was that if you say "communism" and in fact mean "Sweden", then you're dumb and don't know what words mean. That point stands Even Sweden isn't Sweden anymore. I mean even ignoring that fact that Sweden's particular golden age and the basis for its prosperity was directly bankrolled by Nazis and the devastation of a major world war, their particular socioeconomic arrangement--like many other presumed Scandinavian Edens--has been subject to the same neoliberal contractions as every other capitalist economy. Look I get that its not any fun to have the Marxist drive by and rain on everyone's parade but even if you don't think the answer is communism or anything like it I can't imagine how any serious look at political economy anywhere can proceed if no one acknowledges the fact that there actually is a crisis (and furthermore that the crisis has thus far been immune to all the usual sorts of intervention). If you want to make the case that this particular crisis thwarts a traditional Marxist analysis, I think you're insane but that's at least a point that starts in reality. Any plan for a future economic platform that isn't a big fat loving fairy tale has to start by coming to grips with the fact that 20% of the world's productive capacity is more than enough to provide for the abundance of goods for everyone. Just finding novel ways to expand the wage system doesn't even theoretically begin to address this absurdity.
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# ? Nov 11, 2016 14:05 |
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HorseLord posted:California, where eugenics is from. California, the sixth largest economy is from. The resulting war would obliterate this country, I don't see why you're not salivating at the prospect, tankie.
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# ? Nov 11, 2016 14:05 |
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PKJC posted:I have people in my own life for whom Pence is a nightmare, I'm not co-opting the problems of any posters. Also cool how people who want to keep shouting down this issue and other people who bring up minority grievances the last two days assume that we somehow are uniquely uneducated in regards to electoral strategy, or why we lost, or what the weaknesses of hillary as a candidate were, or any of the other things that we already knew because we paid attention to the election too. but no we need to stop talking about any minority issues right now and only talk about 2018 and how awful Hillary's campaign was and how she's such a narcissist (haha yeah look at who actually got elected). Maybe if the people who think it's so important to harp on voter strategy and tell anyone concerned about the harassment and violence that's already started ramping up 70 days before inauguration how we really should listen more to the people who want us dead, they should go start their own loving thread that's just about strategy and how to win the midterms, and maybe if they want they can make another one to just dump on hillary. friend. friend, please. calm down. you are not talking about minority issues, you are losing your mind swinging at phantoms. i am keenly aware of how unpalatable and ultimately useless it is to try and form a coalition with the aggressively intolerant, but you are using this reality as a shield to deflect much-deserved criticism of both hillary and how the modern democratic party operates in general. white supremacy and bigotry played an enormous role in this election. anybody who tries to deny that is a fool. however, that is not something that we can change. browbeating the stay-at-homes for passing a death sentence might make you feel better, but it will not advance The Cause any more than clinging to a spineless centrist as the great queer savior will. hillary clinton is not your friend. she is not your ally. she would dump us all in a flat second if it were politically expedient. we're simply fortunate that lipservice to queer rights and protections is currently fashionable - though i don't know for how much longer. if you care - really, truly care - about minority issues, then you cannot in good conscience hang your hopes on the dnc establishment. when they are not actively malicious, they're basically useless. they have done nothing to address the systemic issues that plague the country, favoring transient panaceas like wishy-washy acceptance of gay marriage for well-off white people. small comfort that is now that pence has the keys to the kingdom. they failed at the one thing we could reasonably expect them to do, and it is high time to admit to ourselves their utter inadequacy and look for alternatives that will not meekly pledge to work with fascists and bigots as long as they play nice. hillary was not a bad candidate because she was too charitable to minorities. she was a bad candidate because liberals categorically cannot deliver on the social change she pretends to rally behind, and people are starting to catch on and stay home. also emojis. but mostly that. a hillary victory is merely a postponement of an eventual sentence, because she and her ilk will never go the distance and put in place the protections and reforms necessary to truly keep minorities safe - which, i might add, coincides a great deal with halting the erosion of economic safety nets and aiming for increased stability for low income families in red states.
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# ? Nov 11, 2016 14:07 |
Judakel posted:You understood nothing of what I said. I was as clear as one can be, and you still missed it. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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# ? Nov 11, 2016 14:09 |
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HorseLord posted:California, where eugenics is from. Please go back to promoting Lysenkoism and other progressive sciences and let the world forget you.
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# ? Nov 11, 2016 14:08 |
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You guys need to chill out. In the last few days I've seen so many pathetic goon posts. Some of you need to get a loving grip, honestly. Whether it's about killing yourself, or starting a revolution or just plain insulting others because they have different opinions to you, you need to step away from the computer, go outside and breathe for a minute.
Zedsdeadbaby fucked around with this message at 14:10 on Nov 11, 2016 |
# ? Nov 11, 2016 14:08 |
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Lightning Knight posted:California, the sixth largest economy is from. I always thought its weird how the Something Awful word for someone who thinks undeclared drone wars, the suppression of multi-candidate democracy, or eugenics is bad is "tankie".
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# ? Nov 11, 2016 14:10 |
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Dazzling Addar posted:friend. friend, please. calm down. you are not talking about minority issues, you are losing your mind swinging at phantoms. i am keenly aware of how unpalatable and ultimately useless it is to try and form a coalition with the aggressively intolerant, but you are using this reality as a shield to deflect much-deserved criticism of both hillary and how the modern democratic party operates in general. white supremacy and bigotry played an enormous role in this election. anybody who tries to deny that is a fool. however, that is not something that we can change. browbeating the stay-at-homes for passing a death sentence might make you feel better, but it will not advance The Cause any more than clinging to a spineless centrist as the great queer savior will. hillary clinton is not your friend. she is not your ally. she would dump us all in a flat second if it were politically expedient. we're simply fortunate that lipservice to queer rights and protections is currently fashionable - though i don't know for how much longer. very much this i went into the general expecting hillary to make it, but then lose after 4 years of delaying the inevitable. we're in this mess because people are desperate. and the dems were showing they were never going to do anything with hillary talking about 8 more years of obama.
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# ? Nov 11, 2016 14:13 |
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spotlessd posted:Even Sweden isn't Sweden anymore. I mean even ignoring that fact that Sweden's particular golden age and the basis for its prosperity was directly bankrolled by Nazis and the devastation of a major world war, their particular socioeconomic arrangement--like many other presumed Scandinavian Edens--has been subject to the same neoliberal contractions as every other capitalist economy. You're right. Your failed ideology will solve the world when robots take over.
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# ? Nov 11, 2016 14:13 |
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steinrokkan posted:Uh, yeah, but your perception is flawed, and you apparently are aware of it? In that case it's not a valid defense for your stance. It wasn't really a list of my stances in the first place, just giving some insight into the minds of other people that voted for Trump. I don't care about the refugees myself one way or the other. Call me a sociopath if you want but foreign strangers aren't my concern, my friends and family are. Guns, trade deals, anti-globalism, and anti-moralism are what motivated me.
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# ? Nov 11, 2016 14:14 |
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Stop defending fake progressives. Also cool how you felt the need to emphasize "if I really, truly care". You do not know me, don't pretend you have any insight into my life.
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# ? Nov 11, 2016 14:15 |
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PKJC posted:Stop defending fake progressives. Also cool how you felt the need to emphasize "if I really, truly care". You do not know me, don't pretend you have any insight into my life. Lol, now "real progressives" are dictating to others who is allowed to be given the grace of their clemency.
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# ? Nov 11, 2016 14:16 |
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People willing to sit at home when faced with someone whose opening gambit was "mexicans are rapists" don't really care much about progress imo
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# ? Nov 11, 2016 14:19 |
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Non Serviam posted:You're right. Your failed ideology will solve the world when robots take over. Non Serviam posted:You're right. Marxism killed 100 million people in less than a century Let's check the source which originated this amazing claim, the "black book of communism": Well we know one day in New Mexico State Penitentiary 33 people died out of 1136, and there's 2220300 people in american prison, so that must mean 64482 people are dying every day, and america is over 87765 days old, which means no less than 5659,262,730 people have died in george washington's gulags so far. Seems legit.
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# ? Nov 11, 2016 14:19 |
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Non Serviam posted:You're right. Your failed ideology will solve the world when robots take over. What, as a society, is our obligation to those who are unable to contribute? I believe the only system that is equipped to deal with this situation is communism: we all own the means of production. If you disagree, please tell me how we can organize society so that we will not simply have to let those unable to contribute starve.
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# ? Nov 11, 2016 14:18 |
Bad Decision Dino posted:You have failed to answer the single essential question I have asked you several times now. Automation has rendered the working class of this country unable to earn a living wage. As technology progresses, more fields will continue to be made obsolete until we reach a point were the majority of people are unable to contribute to society, because a robot can do their job cheaper and better. I agree with your diagnosis but "install communism, problem solved" is too simple an answer. We will need universal health care and a guaranteed minimum income. Past that it's hard to say.
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# ? Nov 11, 2016 14:20 |
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PKJC posted:People willing to sit at home when faced with someone whose opening gambit was "mexicans are rapists" don't really care much about progress imo Clinton convinced millions of people not to vote for Trump, but didn't convince any of those to vote for her. That speaks as much about the incompetence of the Democrats as about the apathy and moral laxness of the electorate. Except only the former can be really changed.
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# ? Nov 11, 2016 14:21 |
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HorseLord posted:Let's check the source which originated this amazing claim, the "black book of communism": You are right, Juche is the light, now go suck Stalin's syphilitic cock.
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# ? Nov 11, 2016 14:22 |
As everyone knows, stuff like the holodomor and great famines of China were actually the actions of a malformed worker's state acting with the lingering principles of capitalism rather than any failures of communism, furthermo- *fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffart*
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# ? Nov 11, 2016 14:27 |
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PKJC posted:Stop defending fake progressives. Also cool how you felt the need to emphasize "if I really, truly care". You do not know me, don't pretend you have any insight into my life. buddy boy if you think that i am defending fake progressives after that exhausting screed against the inadequacy of democrat politicians to actually do jack and or poo poo to protect the disenfranchised i do not even know what to tell you. all of the folks sticking their thumbs up their butts and screaming "stdh.txt!!!" at instances of hate crimes and harassment can go have a pow-wow at the bottom of a gorge for all i care, but there is legitimate criticism of your beloved abuela that you refuse to entertain for reasons that at this point i simply don't know. wake up. the blue dogs have been failing us long before this election.
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# ? Nov 11, 2016 14:27 |
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:I agree with your diagnosis but "install communism, problem solved" is too simple an answer. We will need universal health care and a guaranteed minimum income. Past that it's hard to say.
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# ? Nov 11, 2016 14:28 |
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steinrokkan posted:Clinton convinced millions of people not to vote for Trump, but didn't convince any of those to vote for her. That speaks as much about the incompetence of the Democrats as about the apathy and moral laxness of the electorate. Except only the former can be really changed. Emphasis mine, your personal dislike of her as a candidate isn't evidence for that statement. I wanted someone else too but I'm not enough of an idiot to say no one wanted to vote for hillary on her merits and her record and she's the worst democrat to ever run.
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# ? Nov 11, 2016 14:28 |
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steinrokkan posted:You are right, Juche is the light, now go suck Stalin's syphilitic cock. Some guy: Communism killed one hundred million people Me: here is the name of the book which first made that claim, and an excerpt where the author admits that he did "no extensive investigation" and reveals that he assigned an entire country a death toll by multiplying the number 5 repeatedly until the answer was suitably big. Me: If you do the same to the USA it becomes clear how dishonest and bad this calculation is Steinrokken: checking sources is for people who suck dicks.
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# ? Nov 11, 2016 14:29 |
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:I agree with your diagnosis but "install communism, problem solved" is too simple an answer. We will need universal health care and a guaranteed minimum income. Past that it's hard to say. Okay fine but how? Who pays for this? Bad Decision Dino made a perfectly cogent, clear post explaining the fundamental problem that doesn't rely on any Marxist ideas and isn't tainted by any other political ideology so let's just start from there. I don't see how any kind of welfare state reforms address this. I mean this doesn't work on paper and the presumed issue with communism is that it doesn't work in practice. Just for the sake of argument lets take any solutions that offend liberal capitalist sensibilities off the table. If we want to leave this in the context of Democratic strategy that's fine as well. What sort of platform could grass roots types like us bring to the party that would begin to address his or her understanding of the problem?
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# ? Nov 11, 2016 14:32 |
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PKJC posted:Emphasis mine, your personal dislike of her as a candidate isn't evidence for that statement. I wanted someone else too but I'm not enough of an idiot to say no one wanted to vote for hillary on her merits and her record and she's the worst democrat to ever run. It is a fact on record that millions of past Democratic voters stayed at home. What other reason besides not being convinced by their own candidate is there. There is none. She brought in the bare minimum of loyal voters.
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# ? Nov 11, 2016 14:31 |
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Dazzling Addar posted:buddy boy if you think that i am defending fake progressives after that exhausting screed against the inadequacy of democrat politicians to actually do jack and or poo poo to protect the disenfranchised i do not even know what to tell you. all of the folks sticking their thumbs up their butts and screaming "stdh.txt!!!" at instances of hate crimes and harassment can go have a pow-wow at the bottom of a gorge for all i care, but there is legitimate criticism of your beloved abuela that you refuse to entertain for reasons that at this point i simply don't know. wake up. the blue dogs have been failing us long before this election. Beloved abuela? gently caress off. I want the Bernie/Warren wing in charge at a bare minimum. Even in a red state I had the loving sense and common decency to say no to fascism. You're welcome to argue blue dogs aren't progressive but I wasn't saying they are, I'm saying someone faced with a open bigot and avowed rapist who does not enthusiastically vote to shut that ideology down doesn't really give a drat about progress.
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# ? Nov 11, 2016 14:33 |
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HorseLord posted:Some guy: Communism killed one hundred million people It doesn't matter how many people precisely which Kim killed, you sociopath. The death accountancy on both sides is only done by morally bankrupt idiots who can't grasp the greater philosophical reality.
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# ? Nov 11, 2016 14:34 |
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# ? Jun 6, 2024 07:34 |
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PKJC posted:Beloved abuela? gently caress off. I want the Bernie/Warren wing in charge at a bare minimum. Even in a red state I had the loving sense and common decency to say no to fascism. You're welcome to argue blue dogs aren't progressive but I wasn't saying they are, I'm saying someone faced with a open bigot and avowed rapist who does not enthusiastically vote to shut that ideology down doesn't really give a drat about progress. so you would argue we should grow stronger and progress by.... locking out the over half of america that didn't vote for democrats that's our path to political relevancy? your idea of progress and progressiveness are very strange
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# ? Nov 11, 2016 14:36 |