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mike jones
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# ? Nov 11, 2016 18:11 |
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# ? May 11, 2024 16:43 |
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Penisaurus Sex posted:I grew up in the most blood red area of the most blood red state that went for Trump (southern coalfields of WV). Appalachia could have been America's Weed Belt.
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# ? Nov 11, 2016 18:10 |
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FistEnergy posted:Sure. I grabbed most of it from Thundercracker on page 50. Thanks buddy, for getting me to email too. Thank you so much! 😃
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# ? Nov 11, 2016 18:11 |
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TyrantWD posted:No, personality matters. If we run another milquetoast? Yeah, probably.
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# ? Nov 11, 2016 18:10 |
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Gene Hackman Fan posted:I really have to love the petitions circulating around regarding doing away with the electoral college or trying to convince electors to change their vote. Trying to flip EC delegates is literally rigging the electoral process. It's the dumbest loving thing to be doing right now.
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# ? Nov 11, 2016 18:13 |
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:Trying to flip EC delegates is literally rigging the electoral process. It's the dumbest loving thing to be doing right now. There would be riots and I would join them.
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# ? Nov 11, 2016 18:12 |
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The one bright spot in this mess is that we can finally quit pretending like 'political capital' is a thing. Holy gently caress that pissed me off more than anything else about Obama in 2009-10.
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# ? Nov 11, 2016 18:15 |
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Irony of ironies, it would have been infinitely easier for the Democrats to defend themselves after 2008 had they just passed free, universal single-payer health care, but too many dumbasses listened to the snakes in Washington who thought that what most Americans could agree with was an arcane market solution that didn't make much sense and wasn't easy to sell
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# ? Nov 11, 2016 18:13 |
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Rigging the process is all Democrats know, apparently.
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# ? Nov 11, 2016 18:14 |
Also remember that these people still don't have loving healthcare because instead of passing Medicare Part E: Medicare for Everyone, we passed PPACA a - a "complex solution to a complex problem" and we were shocked, Shocked! when the GOP found a loophole in that extremely complex law that allowed them to say gently caress you to giving healthcare to the poorest people who needed that care the most.Zoran posted:Irony of ironies, it would have been infinitely easier for the Democrats to defend themselves after 2008 had they just passed free, universal single-payer health care, but too many dumbasses listened to the snakes in Washington who thought that what most Americans could agree with was an arcane market solution that didn't make much sense and wasn't easy to sell loving lol that you posted this just as I was previewing my post.
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# ? Nov 11, 2016 18:16 |
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Penisaurus Sex posted:The one bright spot in this mess is that we can finally quit pretending like 'political capital' is a thing. The ACA was like jerking off 6 times in a row, which is why we couldn't do anything else.
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# ? Nov 11, 2016 18:17 |
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Strep Vote posted:Rigging the process is all Democrats know, apparently. I guess they think the electoral college are basically superdelegates?
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# ? Nov 11, 2016 18:17 |
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Penisaurus Sex posted:I grew up in the most blood red area of the most blood red state that went for Trump (southern coalfields of WV). What did Trump do other than promise to bring coal and steel back? Retraining people to work in the manufacturing jobs of the future does not appeal to anyone, and that's probably the only way out for these communities. Why do these voters vote so heavily for a Republican party that explicitly runs on all of the things that would hurt their communities even more? It's not like Berniecrats are dominating in rural America.
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# ? Nov 11, 2016 18:17 |
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Thoguh posted:I guess they think the electoral college are basically superdelegates? Well that's what the founders wanted them for, and we all know how much these people love Hamilton. TyrantWD posted:What did Trump do other than promise to bring coal and steel back? Retraining people to work in the manufacturing jobs of the future does not appeal to anyone, and that's probably the only way out for these communities. Why do these voters vote so heavily for a Republican party that explicitly runs on all of the things that would hurt their communities even more? It's not like Berniecrats are dominating in rural America. He was willing to do the bare minimum: he acknowledged that their lives sucked and that the system had hurt them.
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# ? Nov 11, 2016 18:20 |
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TyrantWD posted:What did Trump do other than promise to bring coal and steel back? Retraining people to work in the manufacturing jobs of the future does not appeal to anyone, and that's probably the only way out for these communities. Why do these voters vote so heavily for a Republican party that explicitly runs on all of the things that would hurt their communities even more? It's not like Berniecrats are dominating in rural America. Bernie won West Virginia bigly and Hillarymen said it's because the KKK loves him.
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# ? Nov 11, 2016 18:19 |
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TyrantWD posted:What did Trump do other than promise to bring coal and steel back? Retraining people to work in the manufacturing jobs of the future does not appeal to anyone, and that's probably the only way out for these communities. Why do these voters vote so heavily for a Republican party that explicitly runs on all of the things that would hurt their communities even more? It's not like Berniecrats are dominating in rural America. Berniecrats don't exist because the party's line for congressional funding had to be Clintonism or nothing. Now all they have is nothing.
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# ? Nov 11, 2016 18:19 |
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TyrantWD posted:What did Trump do other than promise to bring coal and steel back? Retraining people to work in the manufacturing jobs of the future does not appeal to anyone, and that's probably the only way out for these communities. Why do these voters vote so heavily for a Republican party that explicitly runs on all of the things that would hurt their communities even more? It's not like Berniecrats are dominating in rural America. nafta repeal, tpp trashed, ppaca repeal
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# ? Nov 11, 2016 18:19 |
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Al! posted:more importantly, you can promise to do those things regardless of whether you have the inclination or even ability to do them even now you've learned nothing
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# ? Nov 11, 2016 18:20 |
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MJ12 posted:Finally, to tie back to #2, there are tons of 'gun control' proposals which can reduce gun violence significantly and do not involve categorical bans of anything, which do not involve shoulder things that go up, and which do not involve anything scary like mass confiscation. Keeping guns away from domestic abusers and felons isn't 'gun control' in the sense that these guys are afraid of. So I think you can change the messaging on this. It's not about taking away guns. (AFAIK the three most effective ones are basically permit-to-purchase, firearms restraints on misdemeanor DV convictions, and regular audits of gun stores, none of which require categorical bans of firearms ownership). This is the sort of 'smart gun law' we should be advocating for. It's not about keeping you, Mr. Law Abiding Citizen, from buying a gun. It's about keeping That Shithead Who Beats His Wife from keeping a gun to shoot his wife with. It's about getting Those Motherfuckers Who Sell Guns To Gang Members And Nobody Cares out of business so gun stores which don't do that poo poo can compete. Permit to Purchase is probably the only one that needs some work to be sold. If you can keep people from being shot to death in greater numbers with a law that doesn't inconvenience gun owners much, why shouldn't we be advocating that? You can win over the gun control demos with the results. And sell it to them via people who actually have lots of experience with guns. The AWB was sold to the public on the backs of a lot of hunters and other gun owners who backed it. Learn from the strategies used on it, but don't get monofocused on trying to make the 1990s happen again. Look, you're right that there are a lot of reasonable gun control measures that could be taken, that most gun owners and voters would agree to in isolation. The problem is that the whole thing has gotten so loving divisive, ANY measure is instantly repulsive to pro-gun voters. Because they've seen the constant attempts to enact various bans and restrictions as this constant and insidious pressure from the left with a single ultimate focus of getting rid of all guns. Time and time again the argument is "look Australia got rid of all their guns, won't you just agree to this one step in that direction", which sounds a lot like "... rid of all ... guns ...". Everytime there's a shooting somewhere, gun owners sigh, and get ready for a week of hearing about how gun crazy Americans are and how like a whole hundred people die in mass shootings because of us. Furthermore, gun violence does not kill that many people on an objective basis, and the vast majority of those deaths are easily preventable in a different way: better mental health, improved economic conditions (lol if you think guns *cause* crime), encouraging the 'responsible' part of 'responsible gun ownership'. Doubling down on anything re: gun control only whips up the core base of urbanites who just can't understand why anyone would ever want or need a gun (which I understand, I was one once), and repels anyone who thinks any shade of otherwise. It's just not a winning solution. Both parties need to start casting the net a lot wider, instead of figuring out how to appeal to base harder than ever. I think the Republicans get this -- and by get this, I mean were totally loving destroyed internally by Trump hitting them like a bomb. FFS someone said "I'm proud to be gay" on stage at the RNC (a billionaire, sure) -- but I legit think that is a sign of a wider net, not one that they schemed and planned on, but one that they stumbled into. ^^ basically said it better than I could Mao Zedong Thot has issued a correction as of 18:29 on Nov 11, 2016 |
# ? Nov 11, 2016 18:20 |
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TyrantWD posted:What did Trump do other than promise to bring coal and steel back? Retraining people to work in the manufacturing jobs of the future does not appeal to anyone, and that's probably the only way out for these communities. Why do these voters vote so heavily for a Republican party that explicitly runs on all of the things that would hurt their communities even more? It's not like Berniecrats are dominating in rural America. I'm going to give you a little history lesson here: WV, in particular, has been a Democrat stronghold far longer than it has been a Republican one. If you investigate why it flipped, it flipped because the Democrats abandoned labor in the late '60's and early 70's and participated in a bipartisan restructuring of our economy to gently caress over labor. No one here is as stupid as people like to think. You can't skirt by on lies and bullshit and seeming inauthentic: Trump won the state, yes, but Bernie crushed Trump's vote numbers compared to each other's primaries and would've turned WV blue in a heartbeat.
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# ? Nov 11, 2016 18:21 |
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TyrantWD posted:What did Trump do other than promise to bring coal and steel back? Retraining people to work in the manufacturing jobs of the future does not appeal to anyone, and that's probably the only way out for these communities. Why do these voters vote so heavily for a Republican party that explicitly runs on all of the things that would hurt their communities even more? It's not like Berniecrats are dominating in rural America. Okay, you're trolling right? You don't actually believe these things, right?
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# ? Nov 11, 2016 18:20 |
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A GIANT PARSNIP posted:Also remember that these people still don't have loving healthcare because instead of passing Medicare Part E: Medicare for Everyone, we passed PPACA a - a "complex solution to a complex problem" and we were shocked, Shocked! when the GOP found a loophole in that extremely complex law that allowed them to say gently caress you to giving healthcare to the poorest people who needed that care the most. Privatized Medicare and HSAs for everyone! That's what blue collar Americans really need.
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# ? Nov 11, 2016 18:22 |
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TyrantWD posted:What did Trump do other than promise to bring coal and steel back? Retraining people to work in the manufacturing jobs of the future does not appeal to anyone, and that's probably the only way out for these communities. Why do these voters vote so heavily for a Republican party that explicitly runs on all of the things that would hurt their communities even more? It's not like Berniecrats are dominating in rural America. Because the Dems don't acknowledge that they exist. We've been over this like a dozen times.
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# ? Nov 11, 2016 18:20 |
TyrantWD posted:What did Trump do other than promise to bring coal and steel back? Retraining people to work in the manufacturing jobs of the future does not appeal to anyone, and that's probably the only way out for these communities. Why do these voters vote so heavily for a Republican party that explicitly runs on all of the things that would hurt their communities even more? It's not like Berniecrats are dominating in rural America. They vote heavily GOP because the Democratic Party "solution" is to ship the kids off to college and then to a position in a major city, and just wait for the parents to loving die. At least the GOP offers something that will make them feel really loving good. The GOP offers revenge.
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# ? Nov 11, 2016 18:22 |
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I thought it was hilarious that the Republicans nominated Trump but goddamn that process seems so good and smart in retrospect. They just put a whole bunch of candidates in the ring and made them fight it out until the best one emerged and when the winning one was completely unorthodox they just went with it and it won because it turned out the unorthodox really was the best idea for the electorate's mood. Anyone think policy wonks and party insiders could have figured that strategy out? The clean smart simplicity of it all in comparison to the pure goddamn poo poo that was the other side is inspiring.
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# ? Nov 11, 2016 18:23 |
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TyrantWD posted:Privatized Medicare and HSAs for everyone! That's what blue collar Americans really need. Yes the ACA sucks that what we said
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# ? Nov 11, 2016 18:24 |
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also lol at Venom's analogies in the OP. You want a WW2 analogy that makes sense? How about Munich 1938. The dems sold out their principles to avoid a bigger disaster...and then the big disaster happened anyway.
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# ? Nov 11, 2016 18:24 |
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lazorexplosion posted:I thought it was hilarious that the Republicans nominated Trump but goddamn that process seems so good and smart in retrospect. They just put a whole bunch of candidates in the ring and made them fight it out until the best one emerged and when the winning one was completely unorthodox they just went with it and it won because it turned out the unorthodox really was the best idea for the electorate's mood. Anyone thing policy wonks and party insiders could have figured that strategy out? The clean smart simplicity of it all in comparison to the pure goddamn poo poo that was the other side is inspiring. There's a really long effort post in here somewhere but my short take on it is the Democratic establishment is too far up its own rear end to understand that yes, people may have a different value system than them and place other things of more importance than their pet issues. They were also (and still are weirdly) pathologically obsessed with this election being a referendum on 'decency' in politics. Every liberal pundit dipshit is chasing that Edward R. Murrow dragon when they can turn to Trump and own him with logic and cold facts; in the process, they forgot that no one gives a poo poo about decency if they can't eat and feel like their life is garbage.
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# ? Nov 11, 2016 18:25 |
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TyrantWD posted:What did Trump do other than promise to bring coal and steel back? Retraining people to work in the manufacturing jobs of the future does not appeal to anyone, and that's probably the only way out for these communities. Why do these voters vote so heavily for a Republican party that explicitly runs on all of the things that would hurt their communities even more? It's not like Berniecrats are dominating in rural America. Because the Democrats didn't offer anything besides "Condolences on your new global economy. Would you like $100,000 of debt for an education, you backwoods racist?"
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# ? Nov 11, 2016 18:24 |
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Gene Hackman Fan posted:I really have to love the petitions circulating around regarding doing away with the electoral college or trying to convince electors to change their vote. I wonder how many of those people screamed bloody murder when the Sanders team was encouraging writing letters to superdelegates.
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# ? Nov 11, 2016 18:25 |
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Penisaurus Sex posted:The one bright spot in this mess is that we can finally quit pretending like 'political capital' is a thing.
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# ? Nov 11, 2016 18:26 |
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NumberLast posted:There would be riots and I would join them. The quickest way to legitimize a Trump presidency would be to literally rig the election and steal it from him exactly how he said it would be done.
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# ? Nov 11, 2016 18:27 |
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lazorexplosion posted:I thought it was hilarious that the Republicans nominated Trump but goddamn that process seems so good and smart in retrospect. They just put a whole bunch of candidates in the ring and made them fight it out until the best one emerged and when the winning one was completely unorthodox they just went with it and it won because it turned out the unorthodox really was the best idea for the electorate's mood. Anyone think policy wonks and party insiders could have figured that strategy out? The clean smart simplicity of it all in comparison to the pure goddamn poo poo that was the other side is inspiring. They did absolutely everything in their power to not figure it out, even with tens of millions of primary voters screaming it at them.
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# ? Nov 11, 2016 18:26 |
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here's a draft for the message on getting involved with the DNC. it's aimed toward sharing on fb so less "full communism now" then i would have done. I’ll probably add more and edit it but the civil war is loving on and we need to start fightingquote:
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# ? Nov 11, 2016 18:27 |
lazorexplosion posted:I thought it was hilarious that the Republicans nominated Trump but goddamn that process seems so good and smart in retrospect. They just put a whole bunch of candidates in the ring and made them fight it out until the best one emerged and when the winning one was completely unorthodox they just went with it and it won because it turned out the unorthodox really was the best idea for the electorate's mood. Anyone thing policy wonks and party insiders could have figured that strategy out? The clean smart simplicity of it all in comparison to the pure goddamn poo poo that was the other side is inspiring. Or he won the primary because there's a huge bastion of anger out there and he tapped right the gently caress into it. Believing anything else makes people think everything would be just fine if it wasn't for this really weird chain of events! Everything is not just fine. Millions and millions of voters are pissed the gently caress off, and they're right to be pissed the gently caress off because the capitalist class literally smashed their loving lives apart. The Democratic Party can do things to help these people and help the rest of the country. Give these people real loving jobs that clean up the dozens of messes we have.
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# ? Nov 11, 2016 18:27 |
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Pathos posted:Venom Snake -- I posted this ages ago but I really really want as close to a definitive answer as possible: Why did Hillary pick Tim Kaine? Of all people? I get that he's a nice guy but... why? Just why? It was so safe and establishment and loving why? Tim Kaine is an effective legislator is one answer. Another is she was trying to get the D.C. establishment which was having severe doubts about her on her side. As much as Tim Kaine represents whats wrong with the party he also represents someone who does actually have appeal to working class voters in VA. To bad he spent most of this election in outside of VA and the mid-Atlantic.
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# ? Nov 11, 2016 18:28 |
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SirPhoebos posted:also lol at Venom's analogies in the OP. Venom is not even old enough to have taken a college course on WW2, lmao. I feel kinda bad for ragging so much on the guy. He's woefully ignorant and it's not really his fault.
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# ? Nov 11, 2016 18:30 |
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Penisaurus Sex posted:I'm going to give you a little history lesson here: WV, in particular, has been a Democrat stronghold far longer than it has been a Republican one. If you investigate why it flipped, it flipped because the Democrats abandoned labor in the late '60's and early 70's and participated in a bipartisan restructuring of our economy to gently caress over labor. quote:No one here is as stupid as people like to think. You can't skirt by on lies and bullshit and seeming inauthentic: Trump won the state, yes, but Bernie crushed Trump's vote numbers compared to each other's primaries and would've turned WV blue in a heartbeat. NumberLast posted:Because the Dems don't acknowledge that they exist. We've been over this like a dozen times.
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# ? Nov 11, 2016 18:31 |
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:They did absolutely everything in their power to not figure it out, even with tens of millions of primary voters screaming it at them. Yeah, I'm with you on that. Trump emerged more due to the fact that unlike on the Democratic side there wasn't a single establishment figure for people to rally around against him. Instead you not only had the normal Jesus vs. Business options but you had like half a dozen of each. By the time the field narrowed it was to late because Trump had all the momentum.
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# ? Nov 11, 2016 18:31 |
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# ? May 11, 2024 16:43 |
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This thread is good and fills me with hope
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# ? Nov 11, 2016 18:31 |