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Pener Kropoopkin posted:Can we talk now about how the idea that "demographics are destiny" is basically unreconstructed race science? Liberals do really love race science 
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Nov 12, 2016 02:22
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hobbesmaster posted:And all you have to do to shut them up is say "president Donald Trump" I've been waiting to say "President Elect Donald J Trump" the second some loving third wayist says "bu-bu-bu-but the government can't own factories!"
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Nov 12, 2016 02:23
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https://twitter.com/simongerman600/status/797245073197060096 start allocating electoral college votes by % contributed to gdp. let the free markets decide.
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Nov 12, 2016 02:22
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The Clinton part of the Dems are going to go full social Darwinist in response to the loss
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Nov 12, 2016 02:25
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cams posted:https://twitter.com/simongerman600/status/797245073197060096 Not sure why the AEI is bringing this up since every city there except DFW and Houston is a Dem stronghold* * but certainly not a Hillary stronghold lol
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Nov 12, 2016 02:24
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FDR took over every loving factory in America and used them to kick the poo poo out of the Krauts. We can build some solar panels and some health clinics without ending the loving world.
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Nov 12, 2016 02:25
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cams posted:https://twitter.com/simongerman600/status/797245073197060096 Ahahahahahahahahahaha
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Nov 12, 2016 02:25
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A GIANT PARSNIP posted:The Democratic Party has been overtaken by the capitalist class. But if they overtook it, we can overtake it too. It's always been bourgeoisie, they just used to practice keynesianism.
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Nov 12, 2016 02:30
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Grondoth posted:Nationwide. When they provide presidential exit polls by state - sure. Obama ultimately lost that nation wide by 4 points on the economy, and while some groups have been left behind in the recovery, states in the Midwest have done as well or better than the nation as a whole since 2012 (in terms of income and employment). Culture wars and dislike for Hillary is why Trump won.
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Nov 12, 2016 02:29
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Shear Modulus posted:Not sure why the AEI is bringing this up since every city there except DFW and Houston is a Dem stronghold*
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Nov 12, 2016 02:30
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TyrantWD posted:When they provide presidential exit polls by state - sure. Obama ultimately lost that nation wide by 4 points on the economy, and while some groups have been left behind in the recovery, states in the Midwest have done as well or better than the nation as a whole since 2012 (in terms of income and employment). Now, it's perfect.
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Nov 12, 2016 02:32
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cams posted:https://twitter.com/simongerman600/status/797245073197060096 now that's a good chart look at all that wealth going to those areas~ clinton don fvcked up now!!!
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Nov 12, 2016 02:31
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Atrocious Joe posted:The Clinton part of the Dems are going to go full social Darwinist in response to the loss gently caress them then, they have no mandate for anything now.
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Nov 12, 2016 02:34
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I hope the retards in Sacramento get what they want because the Democratic party's national failure is basically a microcosm of California. You have LA and SF big-money backed guys deciding everything while literally everyone else in the state feels like they have no voice. There would be open loving rebellion lol.
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Nov 12, 2016 02:34
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TyrantWD posted:When they provide presidential exit polls by state - sure. Obama ultimately lost that nation wide by 4 points on the economy, and while some groups have been left behind in the recovery, states in the Midwest have done as well or better than the nation as a whole since 2012 (in terms of income and employment). But that doesn't really explain the huge swing at the end that destroyed the polls, while the fairly recent news of the Obama premiums doubling make a lot more sense than, "people realized they hated Clinton." Mind you, religious leaders like Franklin Graham endorsing Trump even well after Pussygate certainly didn't help.
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Nov 12, 2016 02:33
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A GIANT PARSNIP posted:FDR took over every loving factory in America and used them to kick the poo poo out of the Krauts. The New Deal happened because the capitalist class was rightfully afraid of a socialist revolution.
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Nov 12, 2016 02:33
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YKeYbEOSqYc if you don't loving understand this you're doomed to a fool's victory in 2018/2020 and being washed right the gently caress out again in 2022/2024
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Nov 12, 2016 02:35
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MJ12 posted:I think the better argument is that the guys who are paranoid about immigration and terrorism are paranoid because of economic issues. Think of economic concerns as poo poo in a toilet. If there's a little poo poo, it all stays in the toilet. If there's a gigantic pile of poo poo, it gets stuck and backflows and poo poo goes everywhere. The malaise about a bad economy becomes so significant, and so all-consuming, that it starts poisoning a viewpoint and leaking into other places, places where there shouldn't be poo poo. I had a conversation with some people who were in a community college in the middle of nowhere(Olean NY) from the middle of nowhere(Franklinville NY, Cuba NY, Hinsdale NY) and they had a ton more respect for the idea of making legal immigration easier and amnesty after I said to them that the issue I've got with illegal immigration is that people get to essentially abuse the migrants for downright criminal wages to do work. They can't possibly ask for more and no one can advocate with them, and an honest worker has a hard time competing with labor that management has total control over. That immigrants are coming and stealing jobs isn't technically correct, but goddamn if it hasn't made several sectors of labor invalid for an honest pursuit of work. Because capital loves labor it can exploit. Those same people stopped being upset at hispanic families getting "lots of help" when I explained that stuff used to be way more available but slowly got paired down and down until only the most desperate can really claim much of anything, and how the problem isn't that there's a ton being given out but rather that there's practically nothing left so lots of people who are hurting don't get any support. Their ideas of minority welfare queens were based on something really simple, they felt they needed help and weren't getting it, and there were lots of people who were ready to tell them that other people were getting it and no one to tell them that no, no one's getting anything dawg, look it up. I don't want to sound like I'm minimizing racism and bigotry and all that with my posts. But man, I was a racist kid once. I was spooked when black guys in puffy coats walked by me and was worried about cities cause of "crime." I changed. Things can change, people can change, and we all have a lot in common. We want to help the working man, right? Well, you can't hate what you want to help. They know.
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Nov 12, 2016 02:36
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A GIANT PARSNIP posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YKeYbEOSqYc So why bother with anything then? Why not just hand out the Flavor Aid and get it over with if you're so damned certain? Goddamnit.
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Nov 12, 2016 02:36
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loquacius posted:You're pretty aggressively missing the point. Those numbers are counted from among people who showed up to vote. Turnout was super low because Clinton didn't give middle America a good enough reason to care. You need a message. Bernie's message was top-notch. But people are saying that people who turned out to vote Trump did so because they were motivated by economics, and that Hillary and the Democrats message failed to resonate. Trump didn't win on economic populism. It may have been part of his message, but it wasn't what drew people to the polls. He crushed Hillary by 30+ points on immigration and terrorism. We can speculate all we want about what aspect of Hillary's campaign the non-voters didn't like, but of those who did vote - economics was not the big reason for Hillary losing.
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Nov 12, 2016 02:39
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Grondoth posted:I had a conversation with some people who were in a community college in the middle of nowhere(Olean NY) from the middle of nowhere(Franklinville NY, Cuba NY, Hinsdale NY) and they had a ton more respect for the idea of making legal immigration easier and amnesty after I said to them that the issue I've got with illegal immigration is that people get to essentially abuse the migrants for downright criminal wages to do work. They can't possibly ask for more and no one can advocate with them, and an honest worker has a hard time competing with labor that management has total control over. That immigrants are coming and stealing jobs isn't technically correct, but goddamn if it hasn't made several sectors of labor invalid for an honest pursuit of work. Because capital loves labor it can exploit. this is a good post engagement matters and works
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Nov 12, 2016 02:39
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Battle Royale Baby posted:I thought that at first, but the person he backed for the presidency hosed the pooch so badly that not only did they lose to a reality star spouting bullshit but hosed downstream elections in Congress. Obama '08 economic message to Midwestern voters: "The Republicans cratered the economy and we are going to start stimulus projects all over the country to put people back to work." Obama '12 economic message to Midwestern voters: "I saved General Motors and all my opponent did was scream 'BAILOUT!' at me while openly wishing for Detroit to go bankrupt." Clinton '16 economy message to Midwestern voters: "TPP? No TPP! You're the TPP! *Very obvious stage whisper* (TPP is gonna be great once you get that tech degree and move to SFO and all these Mooks die off)" Like this is the loving story of gross malpractice we need to be telling rank and file party members everywhere until it's clear the NY Cuomo/Clinton wing will never be leading anything ever again. Schumer knows they're loving done, and Trump has poisoned the well for Republicans so bad in this state he probably figures there people plotting a primary swing at him from the left.
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Nov 12, 2016 02:38
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mrmcd posted:Obama '08 economic message to Midwestern voters: "The Republicans cratered the economy and we are going to start stimulus projects all over the country to put people back to work." https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w3Ou5uFFn8Q
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Nov 12, 2016 02:40
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Grondoth posted:I had a conversation with some people who were in a community college in the middle of nowhere(Olean NY) from the middle of nowhere(Franklinville NY, Cuba NY, Hinsdale NY) and they had a ton more respect for the idea of making legal immigration easier and amnesty after I said to them that the issue I've got with illegal immigration is that people get to essentially abuse the migrants for downright criminal wages to do work. They can't possibly ask for more and no one can advocate with them, and an honest worker has a hard time competing with labor that management has total control over. That immigrants are coming and stealing jobs isn't technically correct, but goddamn if it hasn't made several sectors of labor invalid for an honest pursuit of work. Because capital loves labor it can exploit. U...B...I!
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Nov 12, 2016 02:39
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Brian Boyko was right.
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Nov 12, 2016 02:40
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A GIANT PARSNIP posted:Anyone acting like this is just a normal election loss and "we'll put the gang back again in no time!" is missing the entire loving point. People are pissed. They're pissed because the capitalist class loving savaged the wage class and those of us in the salary class (many of us here including me) have sat by and allowed it to happen because we substituted cheaper iPhones from overseas in place of actual rising incomes. This is pretty much exactly it. And here's the thing: It wasn't just people in Bumfuck PA who voted Trump because their town was dying. It was Detroit. If Detroiters had marked lockstep into the booth to tick the Democratic Box like they should have, Hillary would have won MI. But we have an entire major american city that's facing the same fate as the "lovely small towns."
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Nov 12, 2016 02:40
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Princess Di posted:Now, it's perfect. It's very easy to attribute things to racism, isn't it? I bet those people won't double down on their positions at all. This is an interesting thinkpeice: http://whatever.scalzi.com/2016/11/10/the-cinemax-theory-of-racism/
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Nov 12, 2016 02:41
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A GIANT PARSNIP posted:FDR took over every loving factory in America and used them to kick the poo poo out of the Krauts. He was also like 100 times richer than Trump and Clinton combined.
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Nov 12, 2016 02:40
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Well What Now posted:So why bother with anything then? Why not just hand out the Flavor Aid and get it over with if you're so damned certain? All Massive Root Vegetable is saying is that "unless the democrats understand they need to actually connect with working people they'll never actually win much" He's not saying all is lost. On the contrary, he's saying the future's up for grabs.
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Nov 12, 2016 02:42
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Oh gently caress off with that loving idiot.
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Nov 12, 2016 02:42
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The mantra has long been, essentially, "learn to code or die" as if programming hasn't hit its own problems already.
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Nov 12, 2016 02:42
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people voted for trump instead of hillary for many reasons but a broad one was that for a lot of people she was a well known establishment politician that they had been trained not to trust for decades and had no compelling argument that she would help them when neither side had helped them for a long time a vote for trump was a vote to burn the establishment to the ground an important thing to communicate to these people is that trumps cabinet is all insiders pushing establishment policies that don't help them at all and democrats need to have a message that we will help them
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Nov 12, 2016 02:43
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Well What Now posted:Oh gently caress off with that loving idiot. Hill Folk want to avoid any explanations why the unqualified Donald crushed her.
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Nov 12, 2016 02:42
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comingafteryouall posted:DWS already showed that if you control the purse strings, you control the party apparatus. The Establishment wanted Hillary in 2008. We got Obama. We can change it and we're going to try.
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Nov 12, 2016 02:44
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A GIANT PARSNIP posted:FDR took over every loving factory in America and used them to kick the poo poo out of the Krauts. Again, american communist and socialist parties organized revolutionary unions that steadied FDR's hand to make the New Deal. Otherwise nothing would have happened.
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Nov 12, 2016 02:43
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Jenner posted:The Establishment wanted Hillary in 2008. We got Obama. We can change it and we're going to try. Half of The Establishment wanted her.
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Nov 12, 2016 02:45
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Jenner posted:The Establishment wanted Hillary in 2008. We got Obama. We can change it and we're going to try. Ehhhhh. Obama had Ted Kennedy behind him, and that's a pretty big deal.
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Nov 12, 2016 02:44
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Venom Snake posted:Half of The Establishment wanted her. She treated Obama very badly but now her legacy is ruined.
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Nov 12, 2016 02:45
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Grondoth posted:All Massive Root Vegetable is saying is that "unless the democrats understand they need to actually connect with working people they'll never actually win much" I honestly can't keep track of who's saying what with all the more and more outlandish things that are being bandied about ITT. No the media were not loving in on Team Trump's side because Wall Street all along. Trump hasn't hosed the census bureau forevermore yet. Liberals this, capitalist class that, FULL COMMUNISM NOW the other. For Christ's sake the election was only three days ago despite the fact it feels like it was three months ago personally. We still have some time to prepare, let's try to use it (and our outrage and anger) instead of all going stark raving mad and hacking each other to bits over small differences.
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Nov 12, 2016 02:46
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Oh Snapple! posted:Ehhhhh. Obama had Ted Kennedy behind him, and that's a pretty big deal. It's up to the candidates to win over the establishment. Bernie could have managed to do the same if he got in the game back in 2012/2013 when it was clear which way the winds were blowing.
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Nov 12, 2016 02:46
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