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Arivia posted:Yeah, Hamilton's a loving shithole. This city feels dead to me. I want to do activist poo poo but there's nothing meaningful to do, really. Unless you mean "it is perfect in every way", why not start some activist poo poo yourself?
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Nov 12, 2016 11:11
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rawrr posted:What it seems to be overlooking is the notion that a job is a source of identity and dignity; And this is a recent fabrication from the Industrial revolution that has since been drilled into us for so long that we're conditioned to believe it. Switch the emphasis on your quote to the proper location: quote:People Providing for our progeny is something that's been drilled into us for far longer. The simple fact of the matter is we will run out of jobs as a means to this end and need to start paving the way for the next thing.
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Nov 12, 2016 14:29
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Subjunctive posted:Unless you mean "it is perfect in every way", why not start some activist poo poo yourself? Hamilton does this thing where it sort of grinds you down. The city council is so good at snatching defeat from the jaws of victory that it's been elevated into an art.
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Nov 12, 2016 15:14
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Oh, you mean it's too hard. That's fair, I mostly avoid doing hard things too (unironically).
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Nov 12, 2016 15:20
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Jan posted:And this is a recent fabrication from the Industrial revolution that has since been drilled into us for so long that we're conditioned to believe it. Switch the emphasis on your quote to the proper location: This is a very good point. The value of human effort shifted from bettering the well being of the tribe to creating wealth, as if wealth in itself is virtuous, regardless of what state that wealth was then used to achieve. That being said, people often feel restless and desire direction, a need to feel useful and an opportunity to direct their energy in a productive way. That's why I think that if enough people were put in a position where their baser needs were fulfilled and were assured that they were not at risk of having these resources taken away, greed and xenophobia would quickly give way to altruism and the uptake of responsible stewardship of our society and environment.
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Nov 12, 2016 16:16
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Excelsiortothemax posted:Hahahaha not even four days running up to be the loving president and the Cheeto is breaking his promises left and right He really is Mr. Brexit lmao
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Nov 12, 2016 17:00
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I hope all you loving Francis fukuyamas can at least acknowledge that Trump is going to have the most Keynesian economic policy since FDR.
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Nov 12, 2016 17:10
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namaste faggots posted:I hope all you loving Francis fukuyamas can at least acknowledge that Trump is going to have the most Keynesian economic policy since FDR. Paul Ryan and Donald Trump's tax plans raise taxes on the poor, and I can only assume that the next Fed Chairman will be worse than Greenspan.
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Nov 12, 2016 17:18
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namaste faggots posted:I hope all you loving Francis fukuyamas can at least acknowledge that Trump is going to have the most Keynesian economic policy since FDR. p sure he's just going to sign off on Paul Ryan's budgets so idk about that
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Nov 12, 2016 17:19
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namaste faggots posted:I hope all you loving Francis fukuyamas can at least acknowledge that Trump is going to have the most Keynesian economic policy since FDR. After predicting that Trump would immediately cause an indefinite worldwide recession Paul Krugman reversed himself and is saying that actually, at least in the short term, Trump will probably boost growth through higher spending.
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Nov 12, 2016 17:26
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And if he comes through maybe conservatives around the world can stop it with this loving austerity nonsense
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Nov 12, 2016 17:32
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Agnosticnixie posted:Most of these big name far right populists have been on the political scene in extremely visible positions one way or another for decades, with the exception being AfD and they'll be lucky if they even get a big enough share of the vote to sit someone in the Bundestag this time around. Where the hell do you get that idea? They haven't polled below the 5% threshold in over a year, and right now they're hovering around 13%. That would make them the third largest party after the CDU/CSU and SPD. They'll still be small enough that a grand coalition could ignore them, but they're on track for several dozen seats at this point.
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Nov 12, 2016 17:35
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I look forward to the Keynesian policy of repealing the estate tax
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Nov 12, 2016 17:35
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Hmm yah ur rite better just keep zirping along
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Nov 12, 2016 17:52
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I look forward to the Keynesian policies that will be put forward by the corporate consultants and lobbyists in Trump's transition team. He's such an anti-establishment political outsider, surely he'll break the system and be all keynesian
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Nov 12, 2016 17:55
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Also all those spending cuts and "wasteful spending" that Trump wants to eliminate so he can balance the budget while also cutting taxes, how Keynesian of him!
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Nov 12, 2016 17:57
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namaste faggots posted:Hmm yah ur rite better just keep zirping along Remember how the repatriation holiday in 2004 spearheaded by Barbara Boxer totally was used to increase jobs and not allow for massive dividends and share buybacks to investors? Good times. I'm sure doing it again will bring manufacturing back to America.
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Nov 12, 2016 17:58
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Tax cuts are a major part of Keynesian economics. You can argue whether a specific tax cut is a good or bad idea but it's silly to say it's contrary to whatever passes for 'Keynesianism' today. Both the Democrats and the Republicans advocate economic policies that lean heavily on Keynesian assumptions, even if Republicans are more comfortable invoking someone like Milton Friedman. And Paul Krugman is pretty widely considered a Keynesian (his particular interpretation owes more to a guy named Hicks who arguably stripped all the most interesting parts of Keynesianism so that it could be amendable with microeconomics, but that's a different story) and one of his biggest arguments in favour of Obama's terrible healthcare bill was that it was curbing spending on medical care. So again, calling for spending reductions is not inherently anti-Keynesian.
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Nov 12, 2016 18:01
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Donald Trump's "penny plan", to eliminate 1% of all non-entitlement and non-defence spending each year, is so Keynesian because it would cut things like infrastructure repair and running of national parks and museums by up to 25%! How very Keynesian of him
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Nov 12, 2016 18:02
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Helsing posted:Tax cuts are a major part of Keynesian economics. You can argue whether a specific tax cut is a good or bad idea but it's silly to say it's contrary to whatever passes for 'Keynesianism' today. Both the Democrats and the Republicans advocate economic policies that lean heavily on Keynesian assumptions, even if Republicans are more comfortable invoking someone like Milton Friedman. Tax cuts to stimulate the economy are a major part of Keynesianism. That's generally interpreted to mean tax cuts for the middle and lower classes. But the GOP plans, both Trump's and Ryan's, do nothing for the middle and working class, or even actively make them pay more taxes, in exchange for massive tax cuts for the wealthy. That's not Keynesian, if anything you would call it neoliberal.
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Nov 12, 2016 18:07
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Conservatives love The Donald. https://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2016/11/12/majority-of-voters-think-trump-would-be-bad-for-canada-poll-says.html quote:While most Canadians don’t approve of Trump, there does appear to be a faction of voters in Canada that do support the Republican president-elect. When it came to Conservative voters, 45 per cent approved of Trump (compared to 9 per cent of Liberal voters) and 52 per cent were satisfied with the election results (compared to 13 per cent of Liberals). Turns out the CPC constituency really is that bad.
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Nov 12, 2016 18:15
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Lassitude posted:Conservatives love The Donald. Shock of shocks quote:Regionally, Trump received more support in Alberta, where 33 per cent said they approved of him, compared to 20 per cent in Ontario, 13 per cent in Quebec and 11 per cent in Atlantic Canada.
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Nov 12, 2016 18:17
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Can we build a wall around Alberta?
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Nov 12, 2016 18:29
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vyelkin posted:Tax cuts to stimulate the economy are a major part of Keynesianism. That's generally interpreted to mean tax cuts for the middle and lower classes. But the GOP plans, both Trump's and Ryan's, do nothing for the middle and working class, or even actively make them pay more taxes, in exchange for massive tax cuts for the wealthy. That's not Keynesian, if anything you would call it neoliberal. You can argue that it's a poorly targeted use of Keynesian policy but the belief that government deficits via tax cuts will inject more demand into the economy and stimulate growth is thoroughly Keynesian, even if those tax cuts happen to be going to people with a lower marginal propensity to consume than some other group. I would also strongly caution you against using "neoliberal" as an antonym of Keynesian because in practice they aren't entirely incompatible, even if the overthrow of a particular kind of old school Keynsian thinking, embodied by ideas like the Philips curve, was part of the intellectual battle that lead to the ascendancy of neoliberal thinking. In practice you can have an economic worldview heavily informed by Keynsianism and still advocate neoliberal policies. In fact I'd say that's basically the norm, it's just that many of Keynes more radical ideas from the 1930s are either suppressed by the entire mainstream (such as Keynes advocacy of chartalism) or they are so universally adopted (as in the case of using tax cuts to stimulate growth) that they're taken for granted.
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Nov 12, 2016 18:45
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DariusLikewise posted:Can we build a wall around Alberta? Only if we can build one on the Calgary city limits too. I haven't talked to a single person, save a single retard from Texas who's, ironically, befouling this loving country on a NAFTA visa, who actually supports Trump or even doesn't hate him. Every single person I've talked to in person, on social media, wherever, has expressed either sadness or anger that Trump got elected. I'm guessing his support comes from the racist bestiality enthusiasts from the less populated areas of the province.
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Nov 12, 2016 18:48
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DariusLikewise posted:Can we build a wall around Alberta? Yeah, and make them pay for that wall with transfer payments.
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Nov 12, 2016 18:58
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Lassitude posted:Conservatives love The Donald. Saw a car with several Trump flags and stickers yesterday here in Lethbridge. Wasn't surprised at all.
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Nov 12, 2016 19:03
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Excelsiortothemax posted:Saw a car with several Trump flags and stickers yesterday here in Lethbridge. Wasn't surprised at all. Sounds like it could've used a quick visit from kindly Doctor Tire Iron.
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Nov 12, 2016 19:04
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namaste faggots posted:And if he comes through maybe conservatives around the world can stop it with this loving austerity nonsense I doubt it. Austerity's putting the screws to the little people, and that's exactly what it's supposed to do. Like George Carlin said, the system is designed to keep the masses fighting amongst themselves so the wealthy can make off with all the money. Trump getting elected has ensured at least four years of uneducated, poor white Americans making themselves feel better by hurling epithets at every minority group around, while everyone's quality of life slips another couple of feet downhill.
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Nov 12, 2016 19:08
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Helsing posted:You can argue that it's a poorly targeted use of Keynesian policy but the belief that government deficits via tax cuts will inject more demand into the economy and stimulate growth is thoroughly Keynesian, even if those tax cuts happen to be going to people with a lower marginal propensity to consume than some other group. I would also strongly caution you against using "neoliberal" as an antonym of Keynesian because in practice they aren't entirely incompatible, even if the overthrow of a particular kind of old school Keynsian thinking, embodied by ideas like the Philips curve, was part of the intellectual battle that lead to the ascendancy of neoliberal thinking. In practice you can have an economic worldview heavily informed by Keynsianism and still advocate neoliberal policies. In fact I'd say that's basically the norm, it's just that many of Keynes more radical ideas from the 1930s are either suppressed by the entire mainstream (such as Keynes advocacy of chartalism) or they are so universally adopted (as in the case of using tax cuts to stimulate growth) that they're taken for granted. Sure, but then you're getting into a semantic argument in which the word Keynesian loses all meaning. If you're saying that the very concept of cutting taxes is Keynesian then every single political figure is a Keynesian, so there's no point in even using it as a term anymore. Essentially your argument is "everything is Keynesian" in which case every president is the most Keynesian president since every other one and there's no point discussing it. Outside of actual academic economics circles where everyone may be influenced by or derived from Keynes and his theories in some way, there is a popular idea of what Keynesianism is (generally, counter-cyclical fiscal policy in the form of direct stimulus spending and tax cuts for consumers), and that's the definition of Keynesianism I'm using since we're talking about popular politics here rather than academic economics. And while you're absolutely right that one can be both a Keynesian and a neoliberal, in political practice and discourse the two are often opposed. Hell, some of the most prominent Republican politicians in the US openly define themselves as anti-Keynesians while advocating neoliberal or supply-side policies: quote:For if there is one ideology that unites today's Republicans, it is Keynesianism, whose nefarious influence they are determined to stamp out. “Young Guns”, the book-sized manifesto of Eric Cantor, Kevin McCarthy and Paul Ryan, leading Republican House members, devotes several pages to the evils of Keynesian activism and its exponents in the administration. Supply-side economic followers--again, regardless of what actual supply-side economists say--define themselves as anti-Keynesian because they're not actually defining themselves by Keynesian economic discourse but by the popular image of Keynesianism as counter-cyclical deficit spending to stimulate mass consumption as an opposing ideology to austerity and redistribution of wealth to the top (which may be justified as stimulating the economy, but I would argue that the mere concept of stimulating the economy is not enough for that to count as "Keynesian" in popular discourse, even if it is a tax cut designed to stimulate the economy--in part because these supply-side cuts are justified as encouraging investment by the wealthy who receive them, rather than encouraging consumption, and actually often lead to excessive saving rather than leading to actual economic stimulation). And anyone who thinks Trump is going to stand for counter-cyclical deficit spending rather than austerity and redistribution of wealth to the top is, I would argue, deluding themself.
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Nov 12, 2016 19:11
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DariusLikewise posted:Can we build a wall around Alberta? Better idea, let's trade Alberta for Vermont or something
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Nov 12, 2016 20:40
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Whiskey Sours posted:Better idea, let's trade Alberta for Vermont or something Pretty sure the political make up of Vermont is mostly white Libertarians. Im not sure I want to trade for that. Also, isnt Saskatchewan more of a Conservative holdout than Alberta these days? If were trading were doing it based on landmass. One prairie province could easily net us Washington, Oregon and California.  e: vvv Oh crap yeah, youre right. I should have known this since Sanders is from Vermont. 
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Nov 12, 2016 21:14
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Furnaceface posted:Pretty sure the political make up of Vermont is mostly white Libertarians. Im not sure I want to trade for that. Also, isnt Saskatchewan more of a Conservative holdout than Alberta these days? I think New Hampshire is the white libertarian state, Vermont is the white Marxist state.
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Nov 12, 2016 21:16
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All this bellyaching about the States and you guys missed the most important part, Naheed Nenshi, Canada's Trump equivalent, has announced he's running for a third term as mayor: http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/naheed-nenshi-mayor-election-1.3836087
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Nov 12, 2016 22:20
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Scaramouche posted:All this bellyaching about the States and you guys missed the most important part, Naheed Nenshi, Canada's Trump equivalent, has announced he's running for a third term as mayor: I'm voting for him this time. For all the poo poo I've given him, and will probably continue to give him from time to time, the political climate is too dangerous in Alberta particularly to take any risks at this point with some kind of complete loon getting into power. Oh, and Trump's election has changed my mind on proportional representation: we need it. I'm all in. I'm still not a huge fan of MMP specifically, but we need some sort of reform urgently, and the fact that Trump got elected president in the US has torn to shreds the only excuse I could summon against proportional representation: that it helped prevent extremism.
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Nov 12, 2016 23:22
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PT6A posted:I'm voting for him this time. For all the poo poo I've given him, and will probably continue to give him from time to time, the political climate is too dangerous in Alberta particularly to take any risks at this point with some kind of complete loon getting into power. We just had a decade of Harper rule, it was always a bad argument. Hitler didn't win because PR, he won because the center-right party decided they'd rather preserve capital with fascists than concede even a little with social democrats. Agnosticnixie fucked around with this message at 23:51 on Nov 12, 2016 |
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Nov 12, 2016 23:45
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Agnosticnixie posted:We just had a decade of Harper rule, it was always a bad argument. Not that I'm against MMP but Harper's rule is hardly an argument against FPTP's (supposed) effect on extremism. He had to muzzle the social conservative wing of the party almost completely to be electable in a centre-left country, and only succeeded because the Conservatives' hunger for power was even more powerful than their dislike for gays and women's rights. He even admitted in interviews late in his PMship that he went against his conscience (lol harper having a concience) on issues like capital punishment because he knew taking a stand would make his party unelectable.
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Nov 13, 2016 00:47
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https://twitter.com/YukonMiners/status/796439627192143872
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Nov 13, 2016 01:27
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Fallen Hamprince posted:He even admitted in interviews late in his PMship that he went against his conscience (lol harper having a concience) on issues like capital punishment because he knew taking a stand would make his party unelectable. I'm sure Stevie has a theoretical knowledge of how a conscience works. He would at least have had to read about them in first year psych.
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Nov 13, 2016 02:57
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PT6A posted:I'm voting for him this time. For all the poo poo I've given him, and will probably continue to give him from time to time, the political climate is too dangerous in Alberta particularly to take any risks at this point with some kind of complete loon getting into power. Nenshi's always felt like more of the same, to me. Apparently he's big on the social media that the kids are using, these days. woooooo 
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Nov 13, 2016 04:11
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