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Raspberry Jam It In Me posted:
What the gently caress is this? Anti Russian propaganda working as intended I guess. You do know which country is responsible for the deaths of millions, ISIS, refugees and countless wars, right? Pro tip, it doesn't start with "R". Oh and gently caress Steinmeier that owl looking motherfucker.
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Nov 14, 2016 18:10
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Hashtag Not my president.
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Nov 14, 2016 18:42
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To be precise, somebody who denies the genocide of the Armenian people should not be in any political office no matter how representative instead of functional it is. And if you support somebody like that you should seriously consider emigrating to the United States or Turkey.
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Nov 14, 2016 19:37
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At this point i'm almost wishing for the war to start so we can be done with it.
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Nov 14, 2016 19:39
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Oh, and not to forget that he still shows no regret for support Americans disappearing people from German soil to torture. People the Americans knew were innocent of whatever they accused them of. Now we only need to appoint Margot "It was morally wrong to fight Hitler." Käßmann as his replacement in the foreign office and we're good and ready for thousand years of darkness under Allmother Petry come September.
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Nov 14, 2016 19:45
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Mithaldu posted:At this point i'm almost wishing for the war to start so we can be done with it. What war? I didn't get any emails about this. Are we going to war?
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Nov 14, 2016 20:23
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bronin posted:What the gently caress is this? Anti Russian propaganda working as intended I guess. Russia doesn't need propaganda to look bad, they do pretty drat well on that front themselves.
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Nov 14, 2016 20:23
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bronin posted:What the gently caress is this? Anti Russian propaganda working as intended I guess. You heard it here first folks, the US forced Russia to conduct a terrorbombing campaign in Syria.
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Nov 14, 2016 20:34
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Raspberry Jam It In Me posted:What war? I didn't get any emails about this. Are we going to war? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ulPgWVC08KI
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Nov 14, 2016 20:38
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ArchangeI posted:You heard it here first folks, the US forced Russia to conduct a terrorbombing campaign in Syria. I'm sorry I can't hear you over all those explosions from NATO bombs. No wait those are freedom bombs right? Democracy comes at a price after all. Our bombs good their bombs bad. Got it.
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Nov 14, 2016 21:42
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bronin posted:I'm sorry I can't hear you over all those explosions from NATO bombs. No wait those are freedom bombs right? Democracy comes at a price after all. Our bombs good their bombs bad. Got it. You realise that nobody's saying the US involvement is necessary better? Russia's government being poo poo does not preclude other governments from being poo poo.
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Nov 14, 2016 22:31
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Perestroika posted:You realise that nobody's saying the US involvement is necessary better? Actually, I'm gonna say it. Russia's track record with civilian casualties in Syria is absolutely horrendous, compared to the coalition. Everything points towards them targeting civilian targets deliberately(although it's obviously very hard to prove that.) And let's not even talk about Russia's ally, loving Assad. That piece of poo poo will never, ever be able to rule Syria again, after all the horrifying poo poo he did to the civilian population.
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Nov 14, 2016 22:40
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Randler posted:Oh, and not to forget that he still shows no regret for support Americans disappearing people from German soil to torture. People the Americans knew were innocent of whatever they accused them of. Yeah, that should really be a deal breaker. I mean, so is the denial of the Armenian genocide, but a person who wants to have the highest office in the country can't leave the citizens od said country in a loving extralegal torture prison.
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Nov 15, 2016 03:50
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In the recent US wars I've generally been able to believe that they're genuinely trying to improve the situation, however horribly. Russian leadership has just been hey let's grab this stuff we want and wreak some chaos so our rancid, corrupt authoritarianism looks like the preferable alternative.
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Nov 15, 2016 06:03
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Perestroika posted:You realise that nobody's saying the US involvement is necessary better? Russia's government being poo poo does not preclude other governments from being poo poo. That's all I'm trying to say. I'm not trying to defend Russia's involvement in Syria at all. I'm just getting sick of this new cold war rethoric that seems to be all the rage lately.
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Nov 15, 2016 06:40
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aphid_licker posted:In the recent US wars I've generally been able to believe that they're genuinely trying to improve the situation, however horribly. Russian leadership has just been hey let's grab this stuff we want and wreak some chaos so our rancid, corrupt authoritarianism looks like the preferable alternative. tell me about how the iraq war was aimed at improving the situation 
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Nov 15, 2016 11:29
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botany posted:tell me about how the iraq war was aimed at improving the situation Being deluded enough to think invading Iraq will lead to spontaneous eruptions of freedom and democracy while conveniently making you and your rich friends richer is still less bad than invading random countries because why not.
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Nov 15, 2016 11:37
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I CANNOT EJACULATE WITHOUT SEEING NATIVE AMERICANS BRUTALISED!
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blowfish posted:Being deluded enough to think invading Iraq will lead to spontaneous eruptions of freedom and democracy while conveniently making you and your rich friends richer is still less bad than invading random countries because why not. the US invaded iraq to get rid of saddam and gain control of the oil fields, freedom and democracy was the sales pitch. russia invaded ukraine to gain control of the natural resources there, the russian speaking majority wanting Anschluss was the salespitch. the two incidents are directly comparable.
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Nov 15, 2016 11:42
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botany posted:the US invaded iraq to get rid of saddam and gain control of the oil fields, freedom and democracy was the sales pitch. russia invaded ukraine to gain control of the natural resources there, the russian speaking majority wanting Anschluss was the salespitch. the two incidents are directly comparable. yeah i remember the part where Iraq was annexed by the USA
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Nov 15, 2016 11:45
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There's not going to be a cold war with a Ku Klux Krazy Trump government steering the United States into isolationism and persecuting its own people.
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Nov 15, 2016 11:46
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Drone posted:yeah i remember the part where Iraq was annexed by the USA the US and iraq do not share land borders, do not have a common language, do not share cultural traditions or a common past. annexing iraq would have been a stupid idea for obvious reasons. but the US went in to gain control of the oil fields (explicitly acknowledged by chuck hagel, allen greenspan, john abizaid and others) and they did. when the US left iraq, iraqi oil was in the hands of western companies. that has changed somewhat by now, since the iraqi citizens basically kicked out US companies and traded control to russia and china, but that was the plan from the start. russia and ukraine share land borders, speak almost the same language, share a common past and cultural traditions. annexing a country like that is a lot easier, but don't be surprised if the war ends in a negotiated withdrawal of russian forces from crimea with the stipulation that russian companies gain large shares of the ukrainian gas and oil resources.
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Nov 15, 2016 11:58
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And I think all wars of agression are bad.
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Nov 15, 2016 12:10
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botany posted:the US and iraq do not share land borders, do not have a common language, do not share cultural traditions or a common past. annexing iraq would have been a stupid idea for obvious reasons. but the US went in to gain control of the oil fields (explicitly acknowledged by chuck hagel, allen greenspan, john abizaid and others) and they did. when the US left iraq, iraqi oil was in the hands of western companies. that has changed somewhat by now, since the iraqi citizens basically kicked out US companies and traded control to russia and china, but that was the plan from the start. Yeah, every war is just about oil and gas and literally nothing else. This is why WWII was fought about oil, too: Hitler just wanted more oil fields for his armies. Please stop huffing oil and gas, it's apparently damaging your brain.
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Nov 15, 2016 12:10
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To be fair:http://www.airpower.maxwell.af.mil/airchronicles/aureview/1981/jul-aug/becker.htm#becker posted:The need to provide the lacking 1.9 million barrels per month and the urgency to gain possession of the Russian oil fields in the Caucasus mountains, together with Ukrainian grain and Donets coal, were thus prime elements in the German decision to invade the Soviet Union in June 1941.
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Nov 15, 2016 12:14
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Libluini posted:Yeah, every war is just about oil and gas and literally nothing else. This is why WWII was fought about oil, too: Hitler just wanted more oil fields for his armies. i've never claimed that oil was the ONLY reason to invade iraq, but it was openly one of them, and "exporting democracy" certainly wasn't. remember that the US started planning how to open up the country for foreign energy firms in 2002. before the invasion, oil was nationalized in iraq. by 2013, 80% was under foreign control. if you think oil had nothing to do with the invasion of iraq, i'm not the one deluded here. az posted:And I think all wars of agression are bad. i agree. i'm not saying that russia is any better than the US, i'm just saying that the US isn't, either. (as far as foreign policy is concerned, domestically putin is way worse than trump could ever hope to be.)
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Nov 15, 2016 12:16
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The US made a 163° turn with the Obama administration though and tried to change, even if not always successfully(see Libya). Still this has to count for something. Russia on the other hand keeps gleefully tormenting eastern Ukraine and has doubled down on authoritarianism, oppression and corruption at home.
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Nov 15, 2016 12:21
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Just gonna leave this here for those who think those wars are about anything other than money/oil/natural gas: http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/02/rfk-jr-why-arabs-dont-trust-america-213601
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Nov 15, 2016 12:36
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Eh, taking control of Iraq's natural resources certainly wasn't the only motive at play there Don't forget that GWB literally believed the invasion to be the fulfilment of an ancient Biblical prophecy
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Nov 15, 2016 12:43
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I'm in team "things can have more than one cause" on this one. Everything would have been different if Iraq had no oil, but also, everything would have been different if Saddam hadn't been a mass murderous dictator or if Bush or Powell didn't actually believe their own lies.
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Nov 15, 2016 12:50
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Also what happened to Russia invading Crimea for reasons of military strategy (naval bases, containing NATO expansion)?
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Nov 15, 2016 12:56
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Libluini posted:Yeah, every war is just about oil and gas and literally nothing else. This is why WWII was fought about oil, too: Hitler just wanted more oil fields for his armies. To be fair, one of the main reasons Hitler attacked the soviet Union were, in fact, the oil fields. He also postponed the capture of Moscow in order to push for the oil fields in Baku. Oil wasnt the sole reason for the war but it was a pretty important war goal. Throughout the entire war Hitler was desperate for oil. demonicon fucked around with this message at 13:03 on Nov 15, 2016 |
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Nov 15, 2016 12:57
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demonicon posted:To be fair, one of the main reasons Hitler attacked the soviet Union were, in fact, the oil fields. He also postponed the capture of Moscow in order to push for the oil fields in Baku. Oil wasnt the sole reason for the war but it was a pretty important war goal. Since we're fully Goodwin already, I'll take the more extreme case of the Holocaust and the related crimes. From one view, our ancestors killed all the Jews and Slavs because 1. they could then steal their poo poo, 2. they knew they didn't have enough food to feed both the Army and the massive contingent of prisoners. So two entirely rational reasons. On the other hand, the option of killing them all once it became clear the resources would be needed was only ever an option because our ancestors already believed Jews and Slavs to be subhumans whose eradication was a noble and forward-looking gesture to begin with. What eventually happened depends at least in its details necessarily on the specifics of the situation on multiple fronts, both 1. with regards to ideology, 2. material reality. So maybe Hitler would have killed all the Jews 1. in peacetime, 2. if he hadn't hated them as much. But 1. a peacetime holocaust would have looked entirely different from what happened, 2. a less ideological, more "rational" genocide would have looked very different, again. This also applies to the invasion of Russia by Nazi Germany, and probably to some degree to everything else we've discussed.
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Nov 15, 2016 13:10
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demonicon posted:To be fair, one of the main reasons Hitler attacked the soviet Union were, in fact, the oil fields. He also postponed the capture of Moscow in order to push for the oil fields in Baku. Oil wasnt the sole reason for the war but it was a pretty important war goal. Yeah, that was my point: All that talk about oil and gas isn't wrong, but it sounds incredibly silly to just reduce everything down to "they wanted their sweet, sweet oil". Because let's face it, most people won't read stuff like Botany's post and say to themselves: "Well obviously there were other reasons for war, he just didn't mention them", they'll instead assume it's all about oil and gas
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Nov 15, 2016 13:48
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demonicon posted:To be fair, one of the main reasons Hitler attacked the soviet Union were, in fact, the oil fields. He also postponed the capture of Moscow in order to push for the oil fields in Baku. Oil wasnt the sole reason for the war but it was a pretty important war goal. The big difference is that Hitler did not have the option to just buy the oil a lot cheaper than it was to conquer it - the same is not true for the US.
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Nov 15, 2016 14:16
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In other "news"... The CSU is still the CSU. https://twitter.com/heuteshow/status/798105586806259712 Holy poo poo, that grin.. voodoo dog fucked around with this message at 15:06 on Nov 15, 2016 |
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Nov 15, 2016 15:04
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that guy needs a beating
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Nov 15, 2016 15:11
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Just kill the CSU already.
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Nov 15, 2016 15:20
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voodoo dog posted:In other "news"... The CSU is still the CSU. die CSU so: yeah der Tobi isn guder
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Nov 15, 2016 15:24
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CSU are literal racists, just like the rest of Bavaria.
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Nov 15, 2016 18:21
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voodoo dog posted:In other "news"... The CSU is still the CSU. It's the joviality that gets me. "  Yeah, the Tobi knows what I'm talking about! Now as I was saying, the african male wastes all his money on booze and loose women..."
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Nov 15, 2016 19:07
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