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Zudgemud posted:Or they can simply make them all easier to recruit so you can fight it somehow. Right now the AI can belch out agents before you can, and usually has significantly more of them too, which makes the early to mid game a tedious whack-a-mole as you run around with your one or two agents desperately trying to assassinate the annoying shits burning your buildings, spreading corruption, diminishing growth and causing unrest (four agent actions the AI itself is largely immune to). Might I recommend my 100% amazing Adventuring Party series of mods? They were made for just making armies of heroes, but work just as well for unlocking recruitment right away so you can have fun playing with them. http://steamcommunity.com/workshop/filedetails/?id=718531216
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Nov 14, 2016 18:50
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Zudgemud posted:Or they can simply make them all easier to recruit so you can fight it somehow. Right now the AI can belch out agents before you can, and usually has significantly more of them too, which makes the early to mid game a tedious whack-a-mole as you run around with your one or two agents desperately trying to assassinate the annoying shits burning your buildings, spreading corruption, diminishing growth and causing unrest (four agent actions the AI itself is largely immune to). I can fight it easy, with all races, on very hard campaigns. Haven't tried legendary. You just need to build them early and often. It means the player has to change his priorities and plan around them, delay some of the later units in favor of agents. I understand some people don't want to do this. Mods. If you change the balance and make agents easier to recruit for the player, you can clown on the AI even easier. This is not a good option for an already overly easy game.
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Nov 14, 2016 18:54
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ZearothK posted:Chariots have been historically disappointing in Total War games, they require much more micro than cavalry and are still more likely to get bogged down and killed. You can do some amazing things with them when attacking moving blobs of spread out infantry (I am thinking Rome 2 here), but most of the time they are not worth the money. chariots were basically tanks in rome 2
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Nov 14, 2016 19:37
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Tomb Kings are going to be all about chariots right? That will be fun
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Nov 14, 2016 19:44
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They also have a bunch of units that can ambush the enemy from under the ground/sand and the Ark of the Covenant from Raiders.
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Nov 14, 2016 21:55
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dtkozl posted:I can fight it easy, with all races, on very hard campaigns. Haven't tried legendary. You just need to build them early and often. It means the player has to change his priorities and plan around them, delay some of the later units in favor of agents. I understand some people don't want to do this. Mods. Yes it is easy to fight it if you dedicate your game to fighting it at the cost of the fun part of the game, actual battles with interesting units. Which is exactly what makes it a poorly implemented game feature, much like how an auto resolve that disproportionately favors the player gives a disincentive to playing actual battles. If you think that agent offensive capabilities on the campaign map make the player too OP just put bigger price tags on hostile territory actions for the player or something.
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Nov 14, 2016 22:42
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Randarkman posted:They also have a bunch of units that can ambush the enemy from under the ground/sand and the Ark of the Covenant from Raiders.
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Nov 14, 2016 22:42
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Zudgemud posted:Yes it is easy to fight it if you dedicate your game to fighting it at the cost of the fun part of the game, actual battles with interesting units. Which is exactly what makes it a poorly implemented game feature, much like how an auto resolve that disproportionately favors the player gives a disincentive to playing actual battles. If you think that agent offensive capabilities on the campaign map make the player too OP just put bigger price tags on hostile territory actions for the player or something. Yeah I'm sorry but I disagree totally. I like a strong autoresolve because the battle AI is terrible and being forced to constantly play battles I never have a chance at losing is not fun for me. Figuring out interesting ways to do thing with the different hero abilities on the strategy map helps mitigate some of the boredom of playing the same fight over and over and using different abilities can open up fights that normally I'd just spend turns avoiding until I had a superior force. I don't even understand your point of view. If you enjoy fighting battles, how is there ever a disincentive since you can always fight them? With the current game design it is already always better to fight since you take less casualties compared to autoresolve. Your way would just force people to fight battles they don't want to since all of a sudden they *have* to. As for higher price tags, my original response was about spamming heroes. If you increase the cost of hero actions and increase the amount of heroes, then you just have a lot of heroes sitting around. Why bother.
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Nov 14, 2016 22:57
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This is how I handle agents on legendary: 1) Wait for them to suicide trying to assault one of my armies or garrisons. 2) repeat.
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Nov 14, 2016 23:12
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Zudgemud posted:Yes it is easy to fight it if you dedicate your game to fighting it at the cost of the fun part of the game, actual battles with interesting units. Which is exactly what makes it a poorly implemented game feature, much like how an auto resolve that disproportionately favors the player gives a disincentive to playing actual battles. If you think that agent offensive capabilities on the campaign map make the player too OP just put bigger price tags on hostile territory actions for the player or something. It's honestly not that bad if you're the least bit competent and plan for it early. Literally build one aggressive agent building, train some dudes and level them up by doing anything. It's fun assassinating and damaging other armies, it adds depth, and stuff to the campaign map. Some Agents are super useful at improving economy and the buildings That allow their recruiment usually come with a host of other benefits. I play on very hard and have beaten most campaigns and have never had more than one of my good dudes assassinated. Having an agent in the early game also gives you so many more options early on. So: It adds depth and options to early game, the building necessary to make them are otherwise beneficial, it's a strategy game and so you should be planning, and it's really not that bad after they nerfed it. It's another layer of strategy that isn't perfect but is manageable and can be very useful
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Nov 14, 2016 23:47
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I used to always use mods that disabled hero actions but now I don't. It's super annoying at times, especially against greenskins who seem to pump out a trillion of them, but I do like being able to block an army to keep them from fleeing. A lot. I'll put up with a lot of scenarios like my game last night where Belegar was only back 4 turns between successful assassinations if it means I can actually hinder and kill a loving army that would just run otherwise.
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Nov 14, 2016 23:48
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Yeah I'm mostly okay with the agent system for most factions, because most factions have reasonable ways to recruit them. Agents for Dwarfs are poo poo though, as you can only boost your thane agent cap with a tier 4 building, and your other two with tier 5 buildings. A quicker way to get heroes dedicated to killing other agents would be preferable. Dragon-Slayers cannot come quickly enough 
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Nov 15, 2016 00:11
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Triskelli posted:Yeah I'm mostly okay with the agent system for most factions, because most factions have reasonable ways to recruit them. Agents for Dwarfs are poo poo though, as you can only boost your thane agent cap with a tier 4 building, and your other two with tier 5 buildings. A quicker way to get heroes dedicated to killing other agents would be preferable. Dragon-Slayers cannot come quickly enough Are these actually being added, or is this speculation of something that should be in the game. It's insane that it usually easier for a dwarf player to outright destroy a faction than to complete an assassination grudge the "correct" way.
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Nov 15, 2016 02:11
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I dont know posted:It's insane that it usually easier for a dwarf player to outright destroy a faction than to complete an assassination grudge the "correct" way. I'd like to think that this is intended. Orcs assassinate a proud dwarf lord? Exterminate all their kind.
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Nov 15, 2016 02:24
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Mordja posted:Some pretty sick looking monsters too. They seem like a pretty flexible faction, more like the Empire than the Draculas, from what I can tell. It all depends how they're implemented. I don't think the Vampire Counts had zero ranged options on the tabletop.
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Nov 15, 2016 02:32
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new phone who dis posted:It all depends how they're implemented. I don't think the Vampire Counts had zero ranged options on the tabletop. Ehhh almost. They had banshee wails, which were super short range special shooting attacks. That's... about it, if you count all the generic "Scream and kill people at short range" attacks
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Nov 15, 2016 02:46
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new phone who dis posted:It all depends how they're implemented. I don't think the Vampire Counts had zero ranged options on the tabletop. They did not have any form of missile troops.
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Nov 15, 2016 02:49
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Didn't they have lovely skeleton archers at one point or another? Maybe I'm dating myself here.
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Nov 15, 2016 03:03
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that was the not egypt skeletons
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Nov 15, 2016 04:14
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new phone who dis posted:Didn't they have lovely skeleton archers at one point or another? Maybe I'm dating myself here. You are, since that was from back when there was just a single generic Undead faction.
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Nov 15, 2016 04:17
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Mans posted:chariots were basically tanks in rome 2 Yeah, as long as you were patient with them, kept them away from javelins, and got into a point where you could micro them well, it was not hard to rack up hundreds and hundreds of kills with Chariots. They're mostly underwhelming in Warhammer, though (to me anyway, hats off if you can make them work).
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Nov 15, 2016 09:42
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new phone who dis posted:Didn't they have lovely skeleton archers at one point or another? Maybe I'm dating myself here. They did. Back in 5th edition.
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Nov 15, 2016 10:00
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Geisladisk posted:They did. Back in 5th edition.
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Nov 15, 2016 10:07
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Terrible Opinions posted:That's actually not true the 5th ed weapon options were normal hand weapon, spears, halberds, or great weapons. Oh? Is it possible I'm thinking of 4th edition?
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Nov 15, 2016 10:11
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Geisladisk posted:Oh? Is it possible I'm thinking of 4th edition?
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Nov 15, 2016 10:15
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I've never really had trouble with agents, although I don't play any higher than Hard so maybe that's why. I'm either running agents of my own, or I exterminate their whole faction - a wall of iron and beards does the trick as Dwarfs.
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Nov 15, 2016 11:23
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Plan Z posted:They're mostly underwhelming in Warhammer, though (to me anyway, hats off if you can make them work). I ended up making use of them a lot as chaos, but that was mostly because of their position in the tech tree under the dick-cannons that I needed to support Sigvald. Once I got hold of Like all good chariots their main use was abusing those neutronium wheels of theirs and smashing anything that wasn't halberds halfway across the map to make fights for the regular warriors easier
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Nov 15, 2016 14:08
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I guess Wood Elves aren't getting their official announcement so soon, given TW's social media has changed its banner to promote Arena this week and TW:W for Linux is coming out the next. I'd like to be proven wrong though.
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Nov 15, 2016 14:18
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Is arena even still around? I never see or hear anything about anybody playing it. I got up to tier 3 at release and immediately got tired of a third of all players taking a bunch of catapults and firing them into melee as well as the general leveling mechanic where levelling up a general too much put me into higher tier matches despite having no units at that tier.
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Nov 15, 2016 16:11
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Asehujiko posted:Is arena even still around? I never see or hear anything about anybody playing it. I got up to tier 3 at release and immediately got tired of a third of all players taking a bunch of catapults and firing them into melee as well as the general leveling mechanic where levelling up a general too much put me into higher tier matches despite having no units at that tier. i think wargaming is taking it over?
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Nov 15, 2016 17:25
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For those with agent woes: Less OP Agents Instead of disabling the offensive capabilities of agents it just makes it harder to chain them via agent swarming by buffing targets' "on guard" status and debuffing an agent after a successful action. So you're still going to get assaulted and assassinated but it's spread out thin over the campaign instead of having to deal with a dozen agent actions per turn. I feel it succeeds in making the agent game feel complementary to the campaign instead of a constant nuisance.
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Nov 15, 2016 17:38
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I really find it strange how the agent stuff is still being brought up because after a dozen or so campaigns it doesn't really reflect my experience at all. In my current campaign, the significance of agents are Tilea spreading disorder in my back lines without declaring war. Which creates an interesting dynamic where I have to decide how and whether to fight back. I've never ever gotten in the situation of having a dozen agent actions happen each turn. Are people declaring war on too many small powers simultaneously or something? I can see that as being significant.
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Nov 15, 2016 17:44
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 Got a leaked image of the Wood Elf trailer from those contest winners on the Total War forums, with the message "The season of war approaches..."
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Nov 15, 2016 18:00
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Asehujiko posted:Is arena even still around? I never see or hear anything about anybody playing it. I got up to tier 3 at release and immediately got tired of a third of all players taking a bunch of catapults and firing them into melee as well as the general leveling mechanic where levelling up a general too much put me into higher tier matches despite having no units at that tier. the closed beta ended and the game is getting ready for release. Wargaming is taking over and integrating it into the general wargaming client, which might attract a ton of new players, an equal ton of cyka blyats and paper gaulish legionaries.
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Nov 15, 2016 18:29
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Asehujiko posted:Is arena even still around? I never see or hear anything about anybody playing it. I got up to tier 3 at release and immediately got tired of a third of all players taking a bunch of catapults and firing them into melee as well as the general leveling mechanic where levelling up a general too much put me into higher tier matches despite having no units at that tier. The closed beta ended like 5 months ago and there's only been very sparse news updates since. Yesterday they announced that the World of Tanks folks would be publishing it so I expect more news soon.
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Nov 15, 2016 18:57
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I thought Arena was alright but it got boring playing a watered down version of Rome since there were was only Rome, Greece and barbarians. At this point they'd probably be better off converting it to Total Warhammer: Arena.
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Nov 15, 2016 19:20
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Fangz posted:I really find it strange how the agent stuff is still being brought up because after a dozen or so campaigns it doesn't really reflect my experience at all. In my current campaign, the significance of agents are Tilea spreading disorder in my back lines without declaring war. Which creates an interesting dynamic where I have to decide how and whether to fight back. I've never ever gotten in the situation of having a dozen agent actions happen each turn. I feel like this is the general consensus of the thread and just occasionally people wander it and talk about their experience assassinated by an agent, possibly without knowledge on how to deal with them. I don't think that's unfair if they're first time players
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Nov 15, 2016 20:16
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Anyone else just straight disappointed in Grimgors tech tree? He's the best but basically no quests or unique skills.
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Nov 15, 2016 20:19
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Affi posted:Anyone else just straight disappointed in Grimgors tech tree? He's the best but basically no quests or unique skills. The launch LL all feel pretty barebones to be honest. CA has said they want to go back and revamp them to make them more interesting, like the newly added LL, but that it isn't a huge development priority.
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Nov 15, 2016 20:40
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Is there a mod that removes the diplomatic malus for hard and sets it to the normal difficulty malus? I like the AI having more resources to make cool armies and defenses but the diplomatic penalty is just stupid. It basically means that it's impossible to play the diplomacy game with some factions.
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Nov 15, 2016 20:42
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