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Honestly, it's hard, yes, but Guardians is the closest recent approximation - it has the same amount of characters but doesn't feel the need to go into deep backstory for all of them. That's a trap that SS fell for. Guardian's 'universe' was also far more alien than SS but it didn't dwell on details. Like, do we need flashbacks showing every single character backstory, excluding thread MVP Slipknot?
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Nov 15, 2016 22:16
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SS is clumsy about its limited characterization, Guardians of the Galaxy just has even more limited characterization. Neither of them are ideal but I'd take clumsiness over non-entities any day. (Honestly I'm guilty as Babysitter Super Sleuth charged, I want character drama in nearly every context. Spectacle without emotion is the worst.) Tuxedo Catfish fucked around with this message at 22:23 on Nov 15, 2016 |
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Nov 15, 2016 22:19
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thrawn527 posted:I actually have not. But IMDb tells me it's 2.5 hours, so they had ~30 minutes more to work with. That being said, I have no problem assuming it's miles better, and not just because they had 30 more minutes. Listen all I'm hearing is that you've never seen the Dozen, loving get on that. So good.
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Nov 15, 2016 22:27
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notthegoatseguy posted:I honestly think Joker is completely inconsequential to the movie. Yeah I know the initial trailers played him up and almost made him out to be the main antagonist but that clearly isn't the case. He's completely pointless and his hosed up Harley relationship can be explored in some other film. What will you do when there is one body, one mind, one will, one life that is Darkseid? Will you be the enemy of all existence, then?
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Nov 15, 2016 22:29
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Halloween Jack posted:I won't argue that Joker was especially well-used, but I won't agree that he was "pointless" either. Joker is an evil motherfucker: because evil is fun, because what's the point of existing except to reduce the world around you to wreckage so that you can build an image of yourself out of the rubble? Enchantress is a Jokerist. Waller, meanwhile, wants to put her collars on everyone. This seems kinda backwards, though. The Enchantress is a 6000-year-old version of Walker throwing a tantrum because she didn't get her way. She's every bit as much about control, it's just that she sees a rival system challenging her mastery and goes "well gently caress that then."
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Nov 15, 2016 22:35
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Halloween Jack posted:I won't argue that Joker was especially well-used, but I won't agree that he was "pointless" either. Joker is an evil motherfucker: because evil is fun, because what's the point of existing except to reduce the world around you to wreckage so that you can build an image of yourself out of the rubble? It'd probably help if we actually saw Joker be an evil motherfucker. But besides some Harley torture and the scene near the end, we really don't. We don't know anything about him. We see him go from psych bed to being told he was "King" of Gotham. And he has resources because...the movie needs to move the plot along, but we're never really told how he got his resources or became a prominent drug pusher or whatever. We're told a lot of things about Joker, but we're shown very little of it. notthegoatseguy fucked around with this message at 22:56 on Nov 15, 2016 |
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Nov 15, 2016 22:43
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We are shown how he rules his crime empire through fear, violence, and his sense of humor in the scene with Common.
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Nov 15, 2016 22:51
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One of the weirdest aspects of Suicide Squad is that it dispenses with Joker and Harley's creepy abusive relationship from the comics and animated series. They play kinky sex games, and Joker gives Harley permission to be an evil motherfucker like him. The chemical bath scene is an initiation. Of course I understand if you don't think the Joker scenes earn their keep. But I also suspect some viewers are confused about Joker's presence in the film for a reason they don't realize: Joker is more important as an extension of Harley's character than anything else.
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Nov 15, 2016 22:56
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Megaman's Jockstrap posted:Counterpoint: Dirty Dozen. Ocean's Eleven. Magnificent Seven. Fuckin' Royal Tennenbaums, for pete's sake. none of these people have super powers check-loving-mate
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Nov 15, 2016 23:02
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Halloween Jack posted:Of course I understand if you don't think the Joker scenes earn their keep. But I also suspect some viewers are confused about Joker's presence in the film for a reason they don't realize: Joker is more important as an extension of Harley's character than anything else. Was coming back to edit something like this in my post. The expanded cut seems like it adds in some of the abusive elements of their relationship, which gives me pause. Ayer's cut was described as more somber and it wouldn't surprise me if that was driven by those abusive elements. My biggest hope with the alternate cut is changing the music around. I want those covers in the movie dammit!
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Nov 15, 2016 23:03
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Guy A. Person posted:none of these people have super powers Lee Marvin is a superhero.
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Nov 15, 2016 23:13
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Halloween Jack posted:One of the weirdest aspects of Suicide Squad is that it dispenses with Joker and Harley's creepy abusive relationship from the comics and animated series. They play kinky sex games, and Joker gives Harley permission to be an evil motherfucker like him. The chemical bath scene is an initiation. What? The movie is absolutely ABOUT (when it's about anything) that weird balance of power, creepy fetishistic abusive relationship between Joker and Harley.
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Nov 15, 2016 23:28
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The chemical bath scene is great because it both indicates Harley's nearly-religious dedication to the Joker and at the same time how to him she's somewhere between a pet project and a nuisance.
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Nov 15, 2016 23:33
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Halloween Jack posted:But I also suspect some viewers are confused about Joker's presence in the film for a reason they don't realize: Joker is more important as an extension of Harley's character than anything else. this is why i liked suicide squad joker; he's not given this awed spotlight where he can do all these incredible crimes and be some kind of anthropomorphized chaos, he's just the protagonist's lovely boyfriend who no one knows what she sees in him and that rules
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Nov 15, 2016 23:46
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Drifter posted:What? The movie is absolutely ABOUT (when it's about anything) that weird balance of power, creepy fetishistic abusive relationship between Joker and Harley. The Joker in this film is a fundamental temptation to Harley, not an abusive boyfriend she can't leave. Maybe it's in the extended cut, but in what we've seen, the Joker's narcissism and ultimate disregard for Harley are not on display here.
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Nov 16, 2016 01:10
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Halloween Jack posted:
Well, he did kind of save himself and not her when he drove the car into the river.
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Nov 16, 2016 01:17
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notthegoatseguy posted:I have no idea how the director's cut could make the movie better. It needs less characters and more focus. I'm sure we'll just be getting more flashbacks and other bullshit. Well, there's also the excising of whatever reshoot changes were mandated by the studio after the trailer hit big. I assume that the Directors Cut is likely longer, has more focus, and changed the odd introductions of some characters. It may also change portions of the plot and definitely has way more Joker, which means things are bound to be fairly different since the movie we got almost could have had Joker cut out entirely with no change.
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Nov 16, 2016 01:19
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notthegoatseguy posted:Well, he did kind of save himself and not her when he drove the car into the river. And then the other way around, at the end.
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Nov 16, 2016 01:59
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LORD OF BOOTY posted:And then the other way around, at the end. See, this is why we need the director's cut. So we can see the Joker drive a river into a car.
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Nov 16, 2016 02:06
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Halloween Jack posted:The Joker in this film is a fundamental temptation to Harley, not an abusive boyfriend she can't leave. Maybe it's in the extended cut, but in what we've seen, the Joker's narcissism and ultimate disregard for Harley are not on display here. Uh, he literally offers Harley to the guy Common plays like she's a trophy. I remember the movie being pretty clear about the fact Joker sees Harley as an object, which is abusive in its own way. So, going back to your first assertion, he's both. He's the conduit through which Harley is free to be her worst self, subservient to an abusive authority. Which is what Waller taps into to make her work for the Squad. Because the Squad, and by extension the American imperialist machine, works by empowering the worst of our selves.
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Nov 16, 2016 02:09
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ElNarez posted:Uh, he literally offers Harley to the guy Common plays like she's a trophy. I remember the movie being pretty clear about the fact Joker sees Harley as an object, which is abusive in its own way. I don't think it's quite that clear-cut, at least from what I remember (having seen it only once back at the start of August) Common compliments him on Harley and it's pretty clear that from the time that he expresses that interest in Harley, his fate is sealed. Joker offering Harley to him is just part of that process of Joker toying with him before killing him.
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Nov 16, 2016 02:11
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Inhumans replacing mutants in the comics being an Ike Perlmutter thing makes perfect sense when you realise it's a group of characters representing oppressed minorities being replaced by a people who gained power through eugenics and slavery.
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Nov 16, 2016 02:13
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The MSJ posted:Inhumans replacing mutants in the comics being an Ike Perlmutter thing makes perfect sense when you realise it's a group of characters representing oppressed minorities being replaced by a people who gained power through eugenics and slavery. is there something i don't know about ike perlmutter going on here
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Nov 16, 2016 02:22
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Supported Rubio and donated about a half million to Trump's campaign.
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Nov 16, 2016 02:26
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Brother Entropy posted:is there something i don't know about ike perlmutter going on here Did you know he looks like he owns a company that builds robots to fight Iron Man? 
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Nov 16, 2016 02:26
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ElNarez posted:Uh, he literally offers Harley to the guy Common plays like she's a trophy. I remember the movie being pretty clear about the fact Joker sees Harley as an object, which is abusive in its own way. Chairman Capone posted:I don't think it's quite that clear-cut, at least from what I remember (having seen it only once back at the start of August) Common compliments him on Harley and it's pretty clear that from the time that he expresses that interest in Harley, his fate is sealed. Joker offering Harley to him is just part of that process of Joker toying with him before killing him. Are there scenes where Joker threatens her with consequences for not doing what he wants? Telling her not to trust her own thoughts? Blame her for his problems? (I really don't remember if there are; I only saw it once in the theatre.) Poking around a bit, I have managed to find articles and blogs proclaiming that Suicide Squad got their relationship wrong, precisely because Joker doesn't treat her with utter disregard. Or they're assuming, essentially, that there's continuity from their relationship as it has been in the shows and comics, and are horrified that it's being portrayed positively. (The average geek apparently has a really loving difficult time grasping that a new story is a new story.) Their relationship is a very different animal from what it was in the animated series, and that's a good thing. Hypothetically, imagine if Heath Ledger had lived and they made a sequel featuring Harley Quinn, with their relationship translated from the cartoon as faithfully as possible. It would be genuinely triggering for a lot of people. I'm actually impressed with how they pulled it off. I mean, these are hosed up people, I'm not saying their relationship is perfectly healthy. But they aren't the Clown Ike and Tina Turner of Crime either.
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Nov 16, 2016 03:10
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e-TqAOmE_v4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vI2bcGplfBk
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Nov 16, 2016 05:28
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Dark_Tzitzimine posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e-TqAOmE_v4 I can see why they cut it, but it really is extra pleasing to see Leto doing his best Jim Carrey Riddler impersonation here. All and all, though, that second one's really not tremendously different from what we got.
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Nov 16, 2016 05:42
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Guy A. Person posted:none of these people have super powers Neither do two thirds of the Squad, including Slipknot.
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Nov 16, 2016 05:58
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More https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0-pInkQkdok https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=78UegAFYnQM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1iKBGmqYfAA
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Nov 16, 2016 06:13
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I have to say I'll stand up for the operatic melodrama and theatricality of BvS any day especially compared to the utterly stale mediocrity of marvel film and the inherent stupidity and unassailable inferiority of comic book movies but...man does suicide squad look like a bad movie/jumbled mess no matter what cut or angle I take it at Tbf I have yet to see it though
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Nov 16, 2016 06:18
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I can't say I'm surprised but those scenes doesn't do anything to make the movie less lovely, most of them do the opposite, even.
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Nov 16, 2016 07:31
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Punkin Spunkin posted:I have to say I'll stand up for the operatic melodrama and theatricality of BvS any day especially compared to the utterly stale mediocrity of marvel film and the inherent stupidity and unassailable inferiority of comic book movies but...man does suicide squad look like a bad movie/jumbled mess no matter what cut or angle I take it at
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Nov 16, 2016 07:41
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SolidSnakesBandana posted:The robot swarm defeated by the Beastie Boys. I cannot emphasize how stupid that was. The joke about "classical music" was just a poo poo cherry on a turd sundae. I was very disappointed to learn that Simon Pegg helped write it. Beyond was a good amalgamation of classic Star Trek and Enterprise, so 2 of the best Star Trek series (odd Star Trek series are good, just like even Star Trek movies).
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Nov 16, 2016 07:42
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Holy poo poo, those extended scenes make the movie even worse. I don't know if they're more bland than boring, or the other way around, but they're certainly both. Those scenes just made me not want to watch suicide squad again. Haha. Punkin Spunkin posted:I have to say I'll stand up for the operatic melodrama and theatricality of BvS any day especially compared to the utterly stale mediocrity of marvel film and the inherent stupidity and unassailable inferiority of comic book movies but...man does suicide squad look like a bad movie/jumbled mess no matter what cut or angle I take it at I have seen it, and you describe it better than I ever could. Drifter fucked around with this message at 08:17 on Nov 16, 2016 |
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Nov 16, 2016 08:14
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The MSJ posted:Inhumans replacing mutants in the comics being an Ike Perlmutter thing makes perfect sense when you realise it's a group of characters representing oppressed minorities being replaced by a people who gained power through eugenics and slavery. Inhumans and Mutants are both the result of extraterrestrial eugenics and attempted slavery though. Just one is the culmination of Celestial fuckery and the other is the result of Kree fuckery. Poor Cro-Magnon, just wanted to eat roasted beast and paint caves and instead had to keep dealing with unfathomable alien scientific experiments.
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Nov 16, 2016 13:06
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Wait I though Eternals were because of Celestials. What ancient race hosed humans to make those?
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Nov 16, 2016 13:08
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greatn posted:Wait I though Eternals were because of Celestials. What ancient race hosed humans to make those? Celestials made Eternals, Deviants, Humans, and Humans with the nascent mutant gene. Later on the Kree stopped by, spliced some Eternals DNA into random humans and got Inhumans.
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Nov 16, 2016 13:22
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What's a Deviant and are they good at art?
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Nov 16, 2016 13:26
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greatn posted:What's a Deviant and are they good at art? Draw a blobby humanoid monster and that is basically a Deviant. They used to be the dominant species and enslaved humans before the Eternals drove them all literally underground. I think all of them can shapeshift and the "PC" name for them is The Changing People. Gyges posted:Inhumans and Mutants are both the result of extraterrestrial eugenics and attempted slavery though. Just one is the culmination of Celestial fuckery and the other is the result of Kree fuckery. Inhumans actually did all of that themselves too. They used to only allow selected individuals to undergo terrigenesis, and they have less intelligent brute warriors known as 'Alpha Primitives' that serves as guards and soldiers. The MSJ fucked around with this message at 13:40 on Nov 16, 2016 |
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Nov 16, 2016 13:35
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