World of Warships: just had a dev team that did everything wrong

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Vengarr: Jun 17, 2010; Smashed before noon

Lord Koth posted:

Really dubious about that specific tree at the very least. Regardless of whether there's a change coming or not, I'm somewhat doubtful of WG introducing a skill called "Fog for the Fog God", for instance. The HEAP skill seems nonsensical too for any number of reasons - not least of which is that HEAP rounds are incendiary by their very nature. l. Also, Evasive Expert is complete and utter poo poo. Not only does it delay your next strike, but in terms of supposed buff I have never had the detectability of my aircraft be an issue for them returning. Speed reduction means the survivability buff is mostly cancelled out as well.

The actual power of the skills seems all over the place too, even within the same tiers. At well over a year in I'd have vaguely hoped WG had enough data to figure out what the relative use of some of these skills is.

I'm guessing some of those are working titles.

HEAP makes some sense in theory for big-gun battleships that are more interested in increasing the amount of damage they do to cruisers/DDs than starting fires. Evasive Expert like it might be useful for IJN CVs, since torpedo bombers can't outrun fighters even with the speed boost.

For instance, German HE penetration is 1/4th of the shell diameter. So the Grosser Kurfurst already has 101.5mm HE penetration. With HEAP that would be up to 126.625. That's enough to beat the belt armor of a number of cruisers, and more than enough to overmatch the deck armor and blow their precious innards to kingdom gently caress.

Vengarr fucked around with this message at 16:47 on Nov 16, 2016

# ? Nov 16, 2016 16:33

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# ? May 26, 2024 15:05

orange juche: Mar 14, 2012

Lord Koth posted:

Really dubious about that specific tree at the very least. Regardless of whether there's a change coming or not, I'm somewhat doubtful of WG introducing a skill called "Fog for the Fog God", for instance. The HEAP skill seems nonsensical too for any number of reasons - not least of which is that HEAP rounds are incendiary by their very nature. l. Also, Evasive Expert is complete and utter poo poo. Not only does it delay your next strike, but in terms of supposed buff I have never had the detectability of my aircraft be an issue for them returning. Speed reduction means the survivability buff is mostly cancelled out as well.

The actual power of the skills seems all over the place too, even within the same tiers. At well over a year in I'd have vaguely hoped WG had enough data to figure out what the relative use of some of these skills is.

It is admittedly cobbled together from hearsay, and iChase has been wrong about poo poo plenty of times, like the Dunk being bad.

# ? Nov 16, 2016 16:34

NTRabbit: Aug 15, 2012; i wear this armour to protect myself from the histrionics of hysterical women

bitches

AfroSquirrel posted:

Regardless, it's at least 4 points that can't be spent on improving your ship's capabilities.

The tree might not even function like that anymore though; it could end up more like the one used in Armored Warfare, where you choose between matched pairs.

# ? Nov 16, 2016 16:40

Lord Koth: Jan 8, 2012

Vengarr posted:

I'm guessing some of those are working titles.

HEAP makes some sense in theory for big-gun battleships that are more interested in increasing the amount of damage they do to cruisers/DDs than starting fires. Evasive Expert like it might be useful for IJN CVs, since torpedo bombers can't outrun fighters even with the speed boost.

For instance, German HE penetration is 1/4th of the shell diameter. So the Grosser Kurfurst already has 101.5mm HE penetration. With HEAP that would be up to 126.625. That's enough to beat the belt armor of a number of cruisers, and more than enough to overmatch the deck armor and blow their precious innards to kingdom gently caress.

No, I agree that HEAP would likely be incredibly good for German battleships since it increases the penetration of HE secondaries as well. Arguably TOO good, given they're already murderous with them. Battleships actually firing HE from their main guns against other battleships or cruisers on a regular basis should be smacked though, and that behavior definitely not encouraged. Interestingly Akizuki would also heavily benefit from the skill, since its HE rounds currently having a lot of difficulty doing much other than setting fires.

no bones about it posted:

It is admittedly cobbled together from hearsay, and iChase has been wrong about poo poo plenty of times, like the Dunk being bad.

To be fair, most reviewers were saying it was mediocre to bad. There may very well have been stealth buffs to it just before release.

# ? Nov 16, 2016 17:06

CitizenKain: May 27, 2001; That was Gary Cooper, asshole.; Nap Ghost

Soup Inspector posted:

I've heard this is one of the problems with the RN CL line - if the enemy has any idea of how to angle whatsoever then you're basically reduced to doing scratch damage.

On that note, I'm semi-curious what changes (if any) people want to see for the RN cruiser line (or even just cruisers in general, since I've heard they're kind of marginalised past a certain tier).

I drove my Scharnhorst right at some Belfasts that were in smoke, at first I took a ton of damage as I had to keep from showing broadsides at a BB, but he went around a island. I made them scatter with torps and one showed a broadside and was shown the error of his ways. The other got tagged by a Kongo soon after. According to ingame stats, my Scharn had 1.4 million potential damage thrown at it.

I kinda hoped during a skill tree refresh that they'd expand Expert Marksman to cover more weapon sizes. I'd like to see something destroyer sized guns get the 2.5 buff, 6" guns get a 1.5, 8" guns get 1.0 and everything higher gets .7. I just really miss cruisers being able to turn and fire.

# ? Nov 16, 2016 17:17

Vengarr: Jun 17, 2010; Smashed before noon

Lord Koth posted:

No, I agree that HEAP would likely be incredibly good for German battleships since it increases the penetration of HE secondaries as well. Arguably TOO good, given they're already murderous with them. Battleships actually firing HE from their main guns against other battleships or cruisers on a regular basis should be smacked though, and that behavior definitely not encouraged. Interestingly Akizuki would also heavily benefit from the skill, since its HE rounds currently having a lot of difficulty doing much other than setting fires.

I actually feel like I fire AP too much at cruisers. There are certain ships where any hit around 8-12km that isn't a citadel will overpen, and you can't buy a citadel because it's too small/below the waterline to reliably hit with battleship dispersion.

But I have trouble experimenting because every time I see a broadside cruiser I want to see it eradicated from existence.

Vengarr fucked around with this message at 17:25 on Nov 16, 2016

# ? Nov 16, 2016 17:23

JuffoWup: Mar 28, 2012

While nerfing the fire chance on a DD doesn't seem like the best of ideas, wouldn't it help gunboat DDs be able to max damage against other DDs? I can't remember if I have already been doing full damage anyway with my mahan/udaloi though.

Lord Koth posted:

Really dubious about that specific tree at the very least. Regardless of whether there's a change coming or not, I'm somewhat doubtful of WG introducing a skill called "Fog for the Fog God", for instance. The HEAP skill seems nonsensical too for any number of reasons - not least of which is that HEAP rounds are incendiary by their very nature. l. Also, Evasive Expert is complete and utter poo poo. Not only does it delay your next strike, but in terms of supposed buff I have never had the detectability of my aircraft be an issue for them returning. Speed reduction means the survivability buff is mostly cancelled out as well.

The actual power of the skills seems all over the place too, even within the same tiers. At well over a year in I'd have vaguely hoped WG had enough data to figure out what the relative use of some of these skills is.

Well, ichase has the -7% fire chance skill now at tier 3. Because it was so often picked when it was cheaper. At any rate, it is an interesting thought/discussion topic until wargaming announcing the actual tree change.

I'm personally still waiting on the complete overhaul to aircraft carrier play. Both from the side of the players playing them and the receivers. The UI needs fixing and a better balance between AA and planes need to be reached. Also, a better way to distinguish IJN versus USN carriers. IJN currently has all the cards outside of number of planes per squad.

# ? Nov 16, 2016 17:42

Aramoro: Jun 1, 2012

Vengarr posted:

HEAP makes some sense in theory

HEAP doesn't make sense in terms of Commander Skills though, your skill is that you brought different shells for your guns? That's not a skill it's insubordination.

# ? Nov 16, 2016 17:57

Vengarr: Jun 17, 2010; Smashed before noon

Aramoro posted:

HEAP doesn't make sense in terms of Commander Skills though, your skill is that you brought different shells for your guns? That's not a skill it's insubordination.

Pulling strings in BuOrd to get shells/torpedoes that work is the most American of skills :911:

# ? Nov 16, 2016 18:01

Elusif: Jun 9, 2008

JuffoWup posted:

While nerfing the fire chance on a DD doesn't seem like the best of ideas, wouldn't it help gunboat DDs be able to max damage against other DDs? I can't remember if I have already been doing full damage anyway with my mahan/udaloi though.

Well, ichase has the -7% fire chance skill now at tier 3. Because it was so often picked when it was cheaper. At any rate, it is an interesting thought/discussion topic until wargaming announcing the actual tree change.

I'm personally still waiting on the complete overhaul to aircraft carrier play. Both from the side of the players playing them and the receivers. The UI needs fixing and a better balance between AA and planes need to be reached. Also, a better way to distinguish IJN versus USN carriers. IJN currently has all the cards outside of number of planes per squad.

Wrong. The midway is the best combat carrier in the game. It can do nearly 10k damage with secondaries if the enemy team is composed of coma patients.

# ? Nov 16, 2016 18:04

Elusif: Jun 9, 2008

I say this as a person that took the 5 point secondary skill and the secondary modules on his midway.

# ? Nov 16, 2016 18:05

OwlFancier: Aug 22, 2013

Soup Inspector posted:

I definitely know where you're coming from here. The games where you get buried under an endless tide of citadels or eat poo poo 3 seconds into the match and you feel completely and utterly helpless without friendly support are agonising. Hell, even just playing tonight there were one or two moments I was close to ragequitting for the night.

But I think the beauty of the RN cruisers is that when they're in their element people seem to have very little idea of how to deal with them. I've lost count of the number of times destroyers have tried to panic smoke only to eat a hefty faceful of AP or fall flat on their asses because they underestimate you and the next thing they're on their way to the bottom. Larger ships often seem to ignore the smoke cloud vomiting AP at them or only make one or two attempts to chase you off, letting you plink away at leisure. At least in the Leander, when you manage to score citadels they can be absolutely murderous - you've got a high enough ROF to keep pumping shells into them and no ship can survive that for long without changing something. The torpedoes are beautiful too, when you manage to use them to ambush someone.

I could be talking out of my rear end here, but I get the sense that the key to the RN cruisers is to abuse the hell out of hydro and smoke (ideally near an island edge so you can retreat into cover if people start getting aggressive and/or use it as an ambush site). Also, never ever ever expose your sides for longer than absolutely necessary unless you want to get aggravated. Pick on ships that are distracted shooting at someone else or that have a bunch of people already shooting at them. Don't try to go charging in alone; you should always be arriving with at least a couple of other ships so that everyone doesn't just gang up on you (this is why I generally start matches at 1/4 speed, occasionally moving up to 1/2 speed or full speed to keep up). The key thing to remember is that you're a harasser and a supporter - unless things go seriously wrong (or right) you aren't the one charging in guns blazing. Rather you pick off the enemy one at a time, repositioning as necessary. Don't forget to (ab)use your absurd acceleration, either.

Hope that helps! Admittedly I can't claim to know all the answers - I'm poo poo at this game and I'm still stuck on the Leander - so do take my "advice" with a healthy pile of salt.

That might explain my grief so far because the weymouth has neither hydro nor smoke, a smoke cruiser would be interesting, but the last three have been an exercise in tedium.

# ? Nov 16, 2016 18:33

ZombieLenin: Sep 6, 2009; "Democracy for the insignificant minority, democracy for the rich--that is the democracy of capitalist society." VI Lenin

[/quote]

E Equals MC Hammer posted:

I say this as a person that took the 5 point secondary skill and the secondary modules on his midway.

How does this come up? The only thing I can think is those rare events when DDs sneak in and try to torp you, because CAs/CLs and battleship can loving obliterate you from well out of range of your secondaries if you're spotted for long enough.

# ? Nov 16, 2016 18:36

Elusif: Jun 9, 2008

All I know is that the Neptune is just fantastic. You can throw the range mod on it and just piss shells all over the place out to 19km. The shells will generally do normal damage, if you manage to hit anything.

Alternatively you can be a stealth firing plane murdering menace. Melted a broadside bismarck at 11km in no time at all while he couldn't even shoot back at me.

# ? Nov 16, 2016 18:43

Elusif: Jun 9, 2008

ZombieLenin posted:

How does this come up? The only thing I can think is those rare events when DDs sneak in and try to torp you, because CAs/CLs and battleship can loving obliterate you from well out of range of your secondaries if you're spotted for long enough.

Because my dream is to take that Midway straight down the middle of Two Brothers and wreck another ship.

# ? Nov 16, 2016 18:44

JuffoWup: Mar 28, 2012

Vengarr posted:

Pulling strings in BuOrd to get shells/torpedoes that work is the most American of skills

Or just lie about your authority:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Iowa_turret_explosion

# ? Nov 16, 2016 18:48

AfroSquirrel: Sep 3, 2011

E Equals MC Hammer posted:

I say this as a person that took the 5 point secondary skill and the secondary modules on his midway.

Is there a mod to make your captain William Adama?

# ? Nov 16, 2016 18:52

ZombieLenin: Sep 6, 2009; "Democracy for the insignificant minority, democracy for the rich--that is the democracy of capitalist society." VI Lenin

[/quote]

E Equals MC Hammer posted:

Because my dream is to take that Midway straight down the middle of Two Brothers and wreck another ship.

You should totally do this. Your team would hate you, unless I was on it, because I like how you think.

# ? Nov 16, 2016 19:16

TheFluff: Dec 13, 2006; FRIENDS, LISTEN TO ME
I AM A SEAGULL
OF WEALTH AND TASTE

I swear to god I will never drop smoke for a pubbie again. Tried a few times in the Fletcher. Usually the dumbasses are so tunnelvisioned on something that they just completely ignore it and drive out of it to die. What really broke the camel's back though was when I dropped a smoke to protect myself from an Edinburgh. I (correctly) predicted that he'd try to torp where I had disappeared so instead of stopping I started reversing while turning my bow towards him. But oh, here comes a friendly Fiji sailing straight into the smoke and eats two torps to his broadside, exploding. He then proceeds to curse me out, going "f ur smoke" and "smoke too small u noob". Yes, publord, it's totally my fault that you didn't see that one coming.

# ? Nov 16, 2016 19:26

Elusif: Jun 9, 2008

ZombieLenin posted:

You should totally do this. Your team would hate you, unless I was on it, because I like how you think.

I never seem to get that stupid map in my Midway.

# ? Nov 16, 2016 19:34

Vengarr: Jun 17, 2010; Smashed before noon

JuffoWup posted:

Or just lie about your authority:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Iowa_turret_explosion

Fun story. I was on the USS New Jersey the other day and someone asked one of the guides what they thought about that. The guide laughed and said "technically since we're under US Navy jurisdiction, I have been informed to tell you that we cannot comment on ongoing investigations."

An incident from 1989 is technically still under investigation because the Navy really super does not want anyone talking about how they totally tried to frame a gay dude for exploding seamen.

# ? Nov 16, 2016 19:34

Godlessdonut: Sep 13, 2005

E Equals MC Hammer posted:

Wrong. The midway is the best combat carrier in the game. It can do nearly 10k damage with secondaries if the enemy team is composed of coma patients.

https://youtu.be/pUzZHi1cVU8

JuffoWup posted:

Or just lie about your authority:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Iowa_turret_explosion

A long time ago in the thread, someone posted a video tour of the Iowa that went into areas that most public tours don't touch. One part that struck me was when the tour guide, a former crew member, pointed out the bunk of the guy the navy blamed for the explosion. His sister had written a message on the bunk, and all the guides kept the light on over it as a small memorial to him. The guide described the initial investigation as a load of bullshit that picked him as the scapegoat, and you got the impression that most of the crew felt the same way.

# ? Nov 16, 2016 19:57

NTRabbit: Aug 15, 2012; i wear this armour to protect myself from the histrionics of hysterical women

bitches

In other modern news, a Dutch film crew who went to the Java sea to film the wrecks of three Dutch warships for the 75th anniversary of the battle, discovered that they, and all of the other sunken British, Australian, and American participants in the Battle of the Java Sea have been illegally salvaged to the point that, in some cases, all that's left to see on sonar is the groove in the ocean bed where they used to be.

On being informed of the salvage of major warships 100km out to sea in 70m of water, presumably by large crane ships over several weeks per vessel, the Indonesian Navy stated they were unaware of any activity.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/nov/16/british-second-world-war-ships-illegal-scavenging-java-sea

# ? Nov 16, 2016 21:01

OwlFancier: Aug 22, 2013

Gonna make so many geiger counters out of those botes.

# ? Nov 16, 2016 21:08

RescueFreak: Sep 8, 2013

El Disco posted:

A long time ago in the thread, someone posted a video tour of the Iowa that went into areas that most public tours don't touch. One part that struck me was when the tour guide, a former crew member, pointed out the bunk of the guy the navy blamed for the explosion. His sister had written a message on the bunk, and all the guides kept the light on over it as a small memorial to him. The guide described the initial investigation as a load of bullshit that picked him as the scapegoat, and you got the impression that most of the crew felt the same way.

https://youtu.be/dW83U4bkC_k?t=14m40s

RescueFreak fucked around with this message at 21:16 on Nov 16, 2016

# ? Nov 16, 2016 21:13

Gorau: Apr 28, 2008

I just got a port slot from a normal container. I didn't even know that that was an option!

# ? Nov 16, 2016 21:58

Godlessdonut: Sep 13, 2005

RescueFreak posted:

https://youtu.be/dW83U4bkC_k?t=14m40s

That's exactly it, thanks!

# ? Nov 16, 2016 22:17

Hazdoc: Nov 8, 2012; Muscovy Ducks are a large tropical breed, famous for their lean and extremely flavorful meat.

Hazduck!

~SMcD

AfroSquirrel posted:

On the bright side, it means that bad players will be crippling themselves to make up for their lack of awareness.

What'll be the the BB/non-RN CA Tier 1 skill? Preventative Maintenance?

This can't be a real tree, wagaming's already said they want to address "useless skills", not ADD MORE. Fire Prevention being literally unchanged, and moved up to 3 points is utter madness and destroys this tree in a heartbeat. Not to mention Keen Instincts is a loving ridiculous skill that should never exist in any form ever.

# ? Nov 16, 2016 22:29

Vengarr: Jun 17, 2010; Smashed before noon

Hazdoc posted:

This can't be a real tree, wagaming's already said they want to address "useless skills", not ADD MORE. Fire Prevention being literally unchanged, and moved up to 3 points is utter madness and destroys this tree in a heartbeat. Not to mention Keen Instincts is a loving ridiculous skill that should never exist in any form ever.

I could understand Fire Prevention being a 3-pointer if they altered the way its calculated.

# ? Nov 16, 2016 22:36

wdarkk: Oct 26, 2007; Friends: Protected
World: Saved
Crablettes: Eaten

Vengarr posted:

I could understand Fire Prevention being a 3-pointer if they altered the way its calculated.

If it actually reduced fire chance by 7% subtractively it'd be brutal. Any DD without DE would pretty much never get a fire.

Similarly HEAP looks brutally bad if it's subtractive.

# ? Nov 16, 2016 22:48

Vengarr: Jun 17, 2010; Smashed before noon

wdarkk posted:

If it actually reduced fire chance by 7% subtractively it'd be brutal. Any DD without DE would pretty much never get a fire.

Similarly HEAP looks brutally bad if it's subtractive.

I think it currently ends up reducing fire chance per-shell by about 2-4% depending on tier? Making it a flat 7% wouldn't be a yuuge boost, but enough to be worthy of three points for sure depending on the ship.

# ? Nov 16, 2016 22:51

Elusif: Jun 9, 2008

When do CVs get AP bombs?

# ? Nov 16, 2016 22:57

Gwaihir: Dec 8, 2009; Hair Elf

High tier US carriers (Or Saipan) I think. Japan never gets dive bombers with the big bombs afaik.

# ? Nov 16, 2016 23:05

wdarkk: Oct 26, 2007; Friends: Protected
World: Saved
Crablettes: Eaten

Vengarr posted:

I think it currently ends up reducing fire chance per-shell by about 2-4% depending on tier? Making it a flat 7% wouldn't be a yuuge boost, but enough to be worthy of three points for sure depending on the ship.

Depending on order of operations it would reduce the fire chance of a Khab without DE to either .5% or zero. A Gearing would go to zero, and depending on the order of operations might go to zero even with DE. Same for the new IJN gunboat DD branch.

# ? Nov 16, 2016 23:08

Lord Koth: Jan 8, 2012

wdarkk posted:

If it actually reduced fire chance by 7% subtractively it'd be brutal. Any DD without DE would pretty much never get a fire.

Similarly HEAP looks brutally bad if it's subtractive.

If HEAP is a real skill, subtractive -50% fire chance would mean literally no ship ever with the skill could cause a fire, because nothing in the game has remotely close to a 50% fire chance with its shells, let alone higher. If it's real I will guarantee is is supposed to be divisive, and the only way it would end up subtractive is if some WG employee hosed up the code entry for the skill (admittedly perfectly possible).

On the other hand, Fire Prevention being moved to subtractive would certainly make it worth 3 points, and very possibly more. It would be impossible for US destroyers to set fires on ships with it if they didn't have DE, and only a 1% chance with. Both Russian and IJN destroyers would have an extremely minimal chance without DE, and cruisers would struggle to set many fires as well.

# ? Nov 16, 2016 23:12

Soup Inspector: Jun 5, 2013

Gorau posted:

I just got a port slot from a normal container. I didn't even know that that was an option!

What option did you select? I could really use a port slot right now.

# ? Nov 16, 2016 23:16

wdarkk: Oct 26, 2007; Friends: Protected
World: Saved
Crablettes: Eaten

Lord Koth posted:

If HEAP is a real skill, subtractive -50% fire chance would mean literally no ship ever with the skill could cause a fire, because nothing in the game has remotely close to a 50% fire chance with its shells, let alone higher. If it's real I will guarantee is is supposed to be divisive, and the only way it would end up subtractive is if some WG employee hosed up the code entry for the skill (admittedly perfectly possible).

On the other hand, Fire Prevention being moved to subtractive would certainly make it worth 3 points, and very possibly more. It would be impossible for US destroyers to set fires on ships with it if they didn't have DE, and only a 1% chance with. Both Russian and IJN destroyers would have an extremely minimal chance without DE, and cruisers would struggle to set many fires as well.

I meant fire prevention. Isn't HEAP listed as -6%?

# ? Nov 16, 2016 23:17