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crazy cloud posted:for having a country w literate citizens I'm pretty sure I understand your actual point but you do know STEM majors can read, right I dunno, every time the degree-wars argument happens in D&D it gives me a headache, you'd think a test tube killed their mom the way they go on about the evils of science Gringostar posted:also more music education since there is a ton of overlap between music and math Absolutely. Ironically enough, getting to this connection would involve literally teaching music theory, but I'm ok with that
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Nov 16, 2016 18:30
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 hail satan
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Nov 16, 2016 18:30
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"liberal arts is stupid!" [flashback to Rome two thousand years ago] A warrior poet steps into the fray, to secure the future of Rome. "Alea iacta est...motherfuckers!" he utters, crossing some obscure river. And they say history won't repeat itself. Gringostar posted:
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Nov 16, 2016 18:30
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crazy cloud posted:for having a country w literate citizens I really hope you were literate before you chose your college major
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Nov 16, 2016 18:31
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Powercrazy posted:It was a central plank of the Neoliberal platform to pit Social Issues against economic issues. Can I get a link to the neoliberal platform tia
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Nov 16, 2016 18:31
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Lastgirl posted:"liberal arts is stupid!" I read Caesar's milhist writings, it was propaganda trash and probably ghostwritten
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Nov 16, 2016 18:31
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Guy Goodbody posted:You're saying there should be more word problems? yes, unironically the most effective teacher I ever had was my precalculus teacher in highschool because every problem was some insane paragraph about how your boat has sunk offshore and you need to swim back to get to pizza hut and it's at an angle but you run faster than you can swim or something. giving someone a reason to solve a problem or just making it at all interesting is much more useful than making kids memorize tables and theorems
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Nov 16, 2016 18:33
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Lastgirl posted:And they say history won't repeat itself. You don't even need to go back that far; just look at what happened in the USSR when engineers and technicians stopped being educated in even the fundamental underpinnings of the scientific method, let alone any kind of liberal arts/humanities education.
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Nov 16, 2016 18:35
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loquacius posted:I read Caesar's milhist writings, it was propaganda trash and probably ghostwritten Well it loving worked, didn't it? Right now we need some Caesars on our side even if they rely on propaganda trash and ghostwritten bullshit.
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Nov 16, 2016 18:36
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Fullhouse posted:yes, unironically this also K-12 math education absolutely needs to be basic economics (interest rates, etc) since it's obvious overlap and is the easiest way to make people realize math is super important
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Nov 16, 2016 18:38
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https://twitter.com/cam_joseph/status/798929277748211712
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Nov 16, 2016 18:38
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loquacius posted:I'm pretty sure I understand your actual point but you do know STEM majors can read, right Given the papers I've been handed by STEM majors in my classes, that's debatable at best.
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Nov 16, 2016 18:38
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Well What Now posted:Well it loving worked, didn't it? 
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Nov 16, 2016 18:39
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loquacius posted:I'm pretty sure I understand your actual point but you do know STEM majors can read, right But that's literally the freaking catch-22 here. Which is why we need education reform again Most STEM dweebs take like AP lit classes in high school, magnets that are set up in ghettos so the divide could not be any more obvious. I took AP classes in such a high school in a magnet program. Being low middle class, I'm so self absorbed that I can't even recall what the poor, disenfranchised or just the unfortunately mentally challenged that went to the regular high school actually picked up in class, probably just writing or learning how to space paragraphs while people in AP learned Shakespeare. Not everyone can learn so easily either, and they're left out in the cold. My mom tells me all the time how our education system is still on the industrial model since she is an educator, and so many kids are left out in the cold because the industrial model is very good at categorizing and putting people into boxes, and not everyone can go into the best box available, with a free ride scholarship etc. The smart people get rewarded while the ones that take a while to adapt or struggle in certain areas are completely shut out. like cmon, No Child Left Behind was a jerkoff platitude to addressing this. Cmon. Education reform is a huge necessity to get people up to speed, and to address them individually instead of shutting them out, set them up for career paths that they can do well vocationally so they aren't drop outs who sit at home with a dim view of the world and drink it away while the system shat on them and they find reasons to lash out. Lastgirl has issued a correction as of 18:42 on Nov 16, 2016 |
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Nov 16, 2016 18:39
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Uh liberal arts majors are probably the reason millennials love socialism so much lol
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Nov 16, 2016 18:40
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The STEM vs. Liberal Arts argument will go on forever, because on the hand you have people arguing that every child should be forced to learn coding and history of Gamergate and nothing else and never allowed to sing or see colors, vs. people who argue that western science is a colonialist lie and all children should simply sing out their personal genderless truth via elaborate cross stitches of what Disney Princesses would look like if they were black.
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Nov 16, 2016 18:40
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Guy Goodbody posted:The STEM vs. Liberal Arts argument will go on forever, because on the hand you have people arguing that every child should be forced to learn coding and history of Gamergate and nothing else and never allowed to sing or see colors, vs. people who argue that western science is a colonialist lie and all children should simply sing out their personal genderless truth via elaborate cross stitches of what Disney Princesses would look like if they were black. this isn't D&D
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Nov 16, 2016 18:42
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personally I think teaching Shakespeare to kids in English is pointless unless you're specifically studying the evolution of words because it's a completely fuckin different language I had to read Macbeth three loving times
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Nov 16, 2016 18:42
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what if we emphasized STEM subjects more in grade school while also removing the stigma of a liberal arts degrees from colleges?
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Nov 16, 2016 18:43
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the only reason I know what a direct object is is because I studied german in college. what the hell is the purpose of primary school english
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Nov 16, 2016 18:44
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Lastgirl posted:Cmon. Education reform is a huge necessity to get people up to speed, and to address them individually instead of shutting them out, set them up for career paths that they can do well vocationally so they aren't drop outs who sit at home with a dim view of the world and drink it away while the system shat on them and they find reasons to lash out. I'm with you 100% on this (my wife has a master's in education and is a font of opinions on what we should be doing better; the math-class reform I've been going on about is only one out of a thousand examples), I'm just tired of only talking about politics with people who still have a chip on their shoulder about some nerd they didn't get along with when they were 19 Fullhouse posted:personally I think teaching Shakespeare to kids in English is pointless unless you're specifically studying the evolution of words because it's a completely fuckin different language Counterpoint: most Shakespeare fuckin rules (I say "most" as a guy who read torture-porn drama Titus Andronicus and the aptly-named Much Ado About Nothing) and making everybody read it is one of the least evils our education system has since reading books that are fun to read gets kids pumped up about literature. Burn all Joyce books.
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Nov 16, 2016 18:46
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Battle Royale Baby posted:Where does the party go in a presidential election where their candidate is already coming out of this with a million more votes than her opponent in growing? Hopefully, not too far. And, anyone purposefully trying advocate for some huge shift is likely someone trying to re-fight a primary they couldn’t win because their guy could not attract the diverse coalition that is the Democratic Party. If they try this coup, it’ll be beaten back, again. nice meltdown also source your quotes
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Nov 16, 2016 18:46
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Fullhouse posted:the only reason I know what a direct object is is because I studied german in college. what the hell is the purpose of primary school english the mechanics of language i only know this because i am an utter failure at the mechanics of language and english was by far my worst subject while also having really lovely teachers at it
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Nov 16, 2016 18:47
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anime was right posted:noice He's declaring martian law.
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Nov 16, 2016 18:47
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bump_fn posted:im a big dumb idiot why is free college racist In my personal experience, de facto black elementary, middle, and high schools do not talk to students about or attempt to prepare them for college. Only when I went to a predominately white high school was I told why advanced placement classes were important, not just gay poo poo for nerds. Note: I think higher education should be free for people who have proven aptitude, but really we need ground-up education reform similar to in Germany where you choose an academics, arts, or trade school track based on your interests and abilities. ScrubLeague has issued a correction as of 18:50 on Nov 16, 2016 |
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Nov 16, 2016 18:47
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nopants posted:He's declaring martian law. dibs on being sir phobos
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Nov 16, 2016 18:48
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loquacius posted:Burn all Joyce books. Even trivially suggesting book burning is a terrible thing and should never be advocated. But yes.
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Nov 16, 2016 18:49
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Guy Goodbody posted:The STEM vs. Liberal Arts argument will go on forever, because on the hand you have people arguing that every child should be forced to learn coding and history of Gamergate and nothing else and never allowed to sing or see colors, vs. people who argue that western science is a colonialist lie and all children should simply sing out their personal genderless truth via elaborate cross stitches of what Disney Princesses would look like if they were black. Because most goons don't stop to think that it isn't Stem > Liberal Arts, or Stem < Liberal Arts. Like I have a feeling that there aren't very many educators in this thread, I should be lucky to know one that offers such an insight to a staggering problem that most people instead rather devolve into "I'm STEM so I'm smart, tough for you, not so smart person~  " Which is literally the problem lmboNot everyone is going to be equipped with the ability and so what, it is okay. If everyone could do it so easily, they would be all STEM or Liberal Arts major and thats just not feasible or plausible, get off it. What's not okay is that the current model that basically presents the option of either you get smart and good, swim or sink and shuts out people with very different skill sets in society. You need to have a reform that allows some opportunities to be incentivized and tailored to people with different learning abilities and skillsets. But what do I know, people just want to go down this road of "I'm right, you're wrong." over this issue which is dumb and always bad. loquacius posted:I'm with you 100% on this (my wife has a master's in education and is a font of opinions on what we should be doing better; the math-class reform I've been going on about is only one out of a thousand examples), I'm just tired of only talking about politics with people who still have a chip on their shoulder about some nerd they didn't get along with when they were 19   
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Nov 16, 2016 18:49
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I think education is a big topic with lots of right answers and where diversity is important and valuable and the largest problem is the quality of education rather than the specific educational goals, and also that it did not play a terribly large role in this election, at least in the way and manner we're discussing it here.
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Nov 16, 2016 18:50
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Lastgirl posted:Because most goons don't stop to think that it isn't Stem > Liberal Arts, or Stem < Liberal Arts. i work in higher education and oh boy let me tell you i have some capital O Opinions about education also i agree w this post
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Nov 16, 2016 18:50
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bump_fn posted:i work in higher education and oh boy let me tell you i have some capital O Opinions about education 
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Nov 16, 2016 18:51
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Fullhouse posted:personally I think teaching Shakespeare to kids in English is pointless unless you're specifically studying the evolution of words because it's a completely fuckin different language But it's a classic you ignorant swine, [swirls my glass of wine in my mahogany rich study] bump_fn posted:i work in higher education and oh boy let me tell you i have some capital O Opinions about education I'd love to hear them sometimes, it certainly beats this stem vs lib arts smugfest~  (see this is the difference with progressives and liberals~)
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Nov 16, 2016 18:53
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I'm a stem student at a bad state university and all my classmates save like two are insufferable boners who can't talk to people without the use of memes and watch anime or video game streams during lectures, and all my actual friends are in what you'd call "liberal arts" stem superiority kids are the worst and they should be shunned
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Nov 16, 2016 18:57
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As a physicist I think cultural and academic pursuits are all pretty fuckin rad, and that we should help people from working themselves to death or worrying where their next meal will come from so they can be free to pursue those things. Death to capitalism etc
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Nov 16, 2016 18:59
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Fullhouse posted:I'm a stem student at a bad state university and all my classmates save like two are insufferable boners who can't talk to people without the use of memes and watch anime or video game streams during lectures, and all my actual friends are in what you'd call "liberal arts" As someone who took a bunch of STEM classes in college, the most insufferable STEM students are the ones who are bad at it, but if they were in different classes they'd still be insufferable. It's them being dumb kids overcompensating for insecurities. It's not really productive to judge the students who are attracted to one major vs another. in short, Lastgirl posted:I'd love to hear them sometimes, it certainly beats this stem vs lib arts smugfest~
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Nov 16, 2016 19:02
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As a chemist, all are welcome as we eat the rich and hail Satan.
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Nov 16, 2016 19:02
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loquacius posted:Counterpoint: most Shakespeare fuckin rules (I say "most" as a guy who read torture-porn drama Titus Andronicus and the aptly-named Much Ado About Nothing) and making everybody read it is one of the least evils our education system has since reading books that are fun to read gets kids pumped up about literature. Burn all Joyce books. YOU DISRESPECT MY ANCESTOR But yeah, he's not exactly easy to read.
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Nov 16, 2016 19:02
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My experience of non-college education is that too much time is spent with sugar coating US history and the same few classes over and over again. What am I taking this year? Oh, history, math, english. Can't wait to learn about how we brought shakespeare and 1 + 1 = 2 to those savages again.
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Nov 16, 2016 19:04
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Acelerion posted:As a physicist I think cultural and academic pursuits are all pretty fuckin rad, and that we should help people from working themselves to death or worrying where their next meal will come from so they can be free to pursue those things. what the gently caress are you me
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Nov 16, 2016 19:04
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Battle Royale Baby posted:It’s not about the economy, stupid. I'm not sure what you're saying. You're saying that they were right not to listen to Bill Clinton? A man who was president famously for targeting such a demographic? The same demographic Trump targeted?  I duno- M-maybe... it is the economy, stupid?
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Nov 16, 2016 19:05
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