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the Technology and Engineering parts of STEM have this very "sink or swim" attitude that talks up the high washout rate like a point of pride and a high-pressure culture that ends up discouraging collaboration and as a result that culture ends up rubbing off on the people in the T&E programs that anybody who isn't in their in-group isn't there because they aren't good enough. This translates to a lot of engineering and CS majors being insufferably smug. The people who go into the humanities have been told lots and lots of times that there's not a job guarantee at the end, and that it's a waste of a degree. But the fact that they're still there in spite of that cultural discouragement means that they're there because they usually have a genuine passion for the subject, and when somebody lords over them that they should have ignored something that they genuinely love doing, and takes a major in a subject that wasn't that interesting because JOBS, even though it's something they've heard tons and tons of times before, they're gonna get defensive.
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Nov 16, 2016 19:08
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oh god, history the only thing more in need of reform than math in how it's taught is history IMO less focus on the who / when and more focus on the why an event happened and how those events changed things basically history should be taught like "connections" or "the day the universe changed" series james burke is my spirit animal (and sanders clone) Gringostar has issued a correction as of 19:11 on Nov 16, 2016 |
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Nov 16, 2016 19:08
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loquacius posted:Counterpoint: most Shakespeare fuckin rules (I say "most" as a guy who read torture-porn drama Titus Andronicus and the aptly-named Much Ado About Nothing) and making everybody read it is one of the least evils our education system has since reading books that are fun to read gets kids pumped up about literature. Burn all Joyce books. *Sucks air through teeth* But seriously, they should not teach the middle English to kids. loving worthless. He's been studied enough most of the jokes could probably be adapted. But I'm real kill you're parents about lit, despite my English degree. gently caress Hemingway too.
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Nov 16, 2016 19:08
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Fullhouse posted:I'm a stem student at a bad state university and all my classmates save like two are insufferable boners who can't talk to people without the use of memes and watch anime or video game streams during lectures, and all my actual friends are in what you'd call "liberal arts" I can't imagine how I would have gotten through college if smartphones had existed and laptops had been commonplace at the time. We had to do the crossword from the student newspaper if we wanted to ignore the prof, like god intended .
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Nov 16, 2016 19:08
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SHY NUDIST GRRL posted:gently caress Hemingway too. Hemingway owns and I will fight you. Though the argument that having middle and high school kids read his stuff is pointless is something I'll accept. The Sun Also Rises, for example, was a book I liked in high school but didn't really get. It wasn't until sometime in my late 20s that I really figured out what was going on and why all the characters were what they were.
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Nov 16, 2016 19:11
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children should be forced to read more Kafka, to better prepare them for the pointless and arbitrary cruelty of the real world
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Nov 16, 2016 19:12
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Fullhouse posted:children should be forced to read more Kafka, to better prepare them for the pointless and arbitrary cruelty of the real world
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Nov 16, 2016 19:13
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Instant Sunrise posted:the Technology and Engineering parts of STEM have this very "sink or swim" attitude that talks up the high washout rate like a point of pride and a high-pressure culture that ends up discouraging collaboration and as a result that culture ends up rubbing off on the people in the T&E programs that anybody who isn't in their in-group isn't there because they aren't good enough. This translates to a lot of engineering and CS majors being insufferably smug. The vast, vast majority of the people who keep fighting this dumbass war after college is a distant memory are angry humanities majors on Something Awful as far as I can tell Although I bet if you trawled the XKCD forums or something you'd find the opposite problem SHY NUDIST GRRL posted:*Sucks air through teeth* Shakespeare is Modern English  (agreed on Hemingway, although I've come to the conclusion that Fitzgerald was just too good for teenage me and I didn't deserve him) loquacius has issued a correction as of 19:16 on Nov 16, 2016 |
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Nov 16, 2016 19:13
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https://twitter.com/ngaudiano/status/798937647662018560 👏ITS👏ABOUT👏loving👏TIME👏
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Nov 16, 2016 19:14
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Thoguh posted:Hemingway owns and I will fight you. Though the argument that having middle and high school kids read his stuff is pointless is something I'll accept. The Sun Also Rises, for example, was a book I liked in high school but didn't really get. It wasn't until sometime in my late 20s that I really figured out what was going on and why all the characters were what they were. Same, but Gatsby which I love now. Also I dislike the man way more than his writing. He was a backbiting raging rear end in a top hat. Hills like White Elephants is brilliant though.
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Nov 16, 2016 19:16
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Guy Goodbody posted:You're saying there should be more word problems? Don't want to derail too much on math stuff, but an enormous amount of math education is memorizing tables and practicing algorithms. Common core math is an attempt to move away from that, and replace boring "Works every time, but takes 30 steps" algorithms with "Might not always be possible, but if you're clever you can solve a problem in 5 easy steps." For example 1000001 - 2. Using long subtraction, it's going to involve quite a bit of borrowing, crossing out numbers, writing little '1's all over the place. But if you let kids play around with the number, they can turn it to 1000000 - 1, and intuitively recognize that any number that ends in all zeroes is one greater than the same number less one, followed by all nines, and get an answer of 999999. The point here is to permit multiple paths to the answer, teach it as a creative problem solving process, and actually prepare them for higher level math. I know a lot of people struggle with calculus because there's no algorithm to tell you which integration rule to use. You've just got to fiddle with the numbers and see if you can puzzle it out. On word problems, you need good word problems. Problems that sound like things that could really occur. "You are in charge of maintaining city streets. There are 100 potholes in the city and you have one week including weekends to fix them all. You have $100,000 in extra budget for the project. You have one team that's already paid for, and they can fill 10 potholes a day. You can hire an extra team for $20,000 a day, and they can fill 6 potholes a day. You can also hire a discount team that can only fill 2 potholes a day, but only cost $5000 a day. If there's extra money left over after fixing all the potholes on time, you can keep 10% as a bonus. What is your solution, and how large is your bonus?
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Nov 16, 2016 19:18
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My go-to for a book which I didn't appreciate as a teenager but fuckin rules when read as an adult is Inherit The Wind, but Gatsby is up there toobump_fn posted:https://twitter.com/ngaudiano/status/798937647662018560  Nothing we're not expecting at this point, but glad to see it's official
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Nov 16, 2016 19:18
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bump_fn posted:https://twitter.com/ngaudiano/status/798937647662018560 holy poo poo are the dems really learning from this election is this really happening 
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Nov 16, 2016 19:18
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bump_fn posted:https://twitter.com/ngaudiano/status/798937647662018560
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Nov 16, 2016 19:18
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Instant Sunrise posted:the Technology and Engineering parts of STEM have this very "sink or swim" attitude that talks up the high washout rate like a point of pride and a high-pressure culture that ends up discouraging collaboration and as a result that culture ends up rubbing off on the people in the T&E programs that anybody who isn't in their in-group isn't there because they aren't good enough. This translates to a lot of engineering and CS majors being insufferably smug. I have an arts degree and the problem is that everybody in the arts tries to convince you that you should make are to make art and everybody else tells you to take something to fall back on. What I think the focus should be on is that you can get a humanities/arts degree and, so long as it isn't conservatory, also pick up classes and experiences along the way that will help you in whatever you do after undergrad because who you are isn't necessarily who you are going to be. Likewise, there are tons of thins you can do in a STEM program that can later be used to enrich the culture around you if you don't want to spend your life plugged into the internet and drinking Soylent. The people who are really successful in life don't just get a piece of paper and then expect success to come to them and it's the same story regardless of what your major was. If you want to be successful, you have to be either willing to make something amazing on your own and demonstrate to people what your potential is or you have to get out there and meet people and find where you fit. I think that's the lesson that's missing in education.
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Nov 16, 2016 19:19
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hi, I'm an English college professor who teaches a lot of future high school and elementary teachers say whatever you want about the liberal arts and jobs, but my majority white, exclusively working class students are loving ready to burn down the system right now, and some of that is because they're seeing a direct connection between the theoretical frameworks we apply to literary texts (Marxist theory, critical race theory, etc.) and what's going on in the United States a lot of them are going to take this stuff into their future classrooms and probably get fired without recourse for action because a Trump-led DoE will weaken unions beyond recognition
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Nov 16, 2016 19:21
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Dr. Arbitrary posted:Common core math is an attempt to move away from that, Uh actually it's liberal mind control propaganda programing our children and must be stopped.
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Nov 16, 2016 19:30
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Battle Royale Baby posted:I’m just mad as hell to see Bernie bros. cynically losing this lost to try to once again steer us to their hopeless utopia. I’m not about that life. No, we are not going to back of the bus because you desire most of what Trump does only you desire it from the left. Take that poo poo and walk. It ain’t right and it sure as hell ain’t progressive. please source your quotes
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Nov 16, 2016 19:32
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Gringostar posted:also more music education since there is a ton of overlap between music and math http://sonic-pi.net/ This is pretty super neat for that and encouraged to be used in schools.
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Nov 16, 2016 19:33
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Dr. Arbitrary posted:Common core math is an attempt to move away from that, and replace boring "Works every time, but takes 30 steps" algorithms with "Might not always be possible, but if you're clever you can solve a problem in 5 easy steps." as somebody who had to memorize all those algorithms and tables, it loving terrifies me to think that kids today are being taught "here's a random trick that might work for a very specific subset of math problems, but doesn't have blanket applicability across every type of problem within a given situation". like, I can look at 100001 - 2 and get 99999 because of all the rote memorization I lived through for 20-ish years, but's also because memorizing all those tables and equations allowed my brain to build connections between things and that's where I get those kind of mental short-cuts and intuitive leaps. I don't know that the "if you're clever you can just see the answer" works if you don't have a firm understanding of how numbers and processes work in the first place. I get not everyone learns the same way and that memorizing tables and equations and formula is boring as hell for 90% of the population, but the way you worded your example seems like an extreme overreaction to try and find a counterbalance to that.
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Nov 16, 2016 19:34
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GlyphGryph posted:Anyway this is just sort of a dumb tangent and feel free to remind that this is the McDonalds drive through, but I guess I just sort of feel like the primary Democratic ideal should be a focus on empowering people and helping them feel important and like their lives are meaningful and they are accepted but in productive ways that make the country better off for everyone. I don't think it's dumb, you seem to be (knowingly or not) echoing Alinsky: Reveille For Radicals posted:What does it avail the workingman to fight for a raise in pay if this raise is accompanied by increased cost of rent, food, clothing, and medical care? What does it avail the workingman if his working conditions at the factory are made more healthful but he and his family are forced to breathe air polluted by those same factories? The gains workers make through their unions become meaningful not in terms of a few extra dollars in the pay envelope but in terms of what those few extra dollars will do to create a better life for themselves and their families.
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Nov 16, 2016 19:38
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Marie Furie posted:hi, I'm an English college professor who teaches a lot of future high school and elementary teachers I teach college composition and yeah, the humanities are a very good place for students to get "woke." I mean, the whole ancient model of the liberal arts education wasn't just JOBS but making good citizens who thought hard about governance and society and such. Now, it is understandable that the emphasis has shifted to jobs because college tuition is prohibitively expensive and you want to get something out of it but humanities majors have a hogher median income than those without degrees, even taking loans into consideration. The "barista with a history degree" thing is largely a myth. (I can go link my sources if anybody actually needs me to.)
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Nov 16, 2016 19:39
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I'm not here to provide a grand-unified theory of Mind, but can we all agree that Charter schools are poo poo? Thanks.
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Nov 16, 2016 19:41
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Berious posted:A snarky comeback or link to a blog will never stick in people's heads like a funny picture of a smug looking frog. You have to close the meme gap. memes are pointless loving distractions.
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Nov 16, 2016 19:44
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Freaking Crumbum posted:I get not everyone learns the same way and that memorizing tables and equations and formula is boring as hell for 90% of the population, but the way you worded your example seems like an extreme overreaction to try and find a counterbalance to that. You still teach the algorithm, but you add the other methods as well to show that there are multiple paths to an answer. A lot of it is focused on rearranging the problems to be easier, or make simpler algorithms possible. It also emphasizes things like estimation and predictions, so that even when you do end up using an algorithm, you're also applying a sanity check. So when you divide one million by 2.103 you know you're probably going to end up with a number that's a little less than 500,000. If you screw up a step and end up with 50,000 ish, you know to recheck your work.
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Nov 16, 2016 19:44
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Lastgirl posted:Because most goons don't stop to think that it isn't Stem > Liberal Arts, or Stem < Liberal Arts. All kidding aside, this. In talks about education reform we should also consider how trades like plumbing/carpentry/electricians are offered to students graduating HS. If we haven't overhauled general education in forever, I would think trade schools would be in a similar situation.
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Nov 16, 2016 19:45
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Powercrazy posted:I'm not here to provide a grand-unified theory of Mind, but can we all agree that Charter schools are poo poo? Thanks. i'm cool with this maybe have a few here and there to test education theory, but they should be much more heavily regulated than they are now
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Nov 16, 2016 19:45
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Powercrazy posted:I'm not here to provide a grand-unified theory of Mind, but can we all agree that Charter schools are poo poo? Thanks. yeah, gently caress charter schools and resource competing
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Nov 16, 2016 19:49
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Gringostar posted:i'm cool with this They should basically just be purpose made test beds with strict time horizons and mandatory evaluation periods with potential for real impact on curriculum at large.
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Nov 16, 2016 19:49
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Powercrazy posted:I'm not here to provide a grand-unified theory of Mind, but can we all agree that Charter schools are poo poo? Thanks. ¡Jeb! disagrees! 
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Nov 16, 2016 19:53
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NumberLast posted:They should basically just be purpose made test beds with strict time horizons and mandatory evaluation periods with potential for real impact on curriculum at large. Laboratories of Education.
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Nov 16, 2016 19:53
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NumberLast posted:They should basically just be purpose made test beds with strict time horizons and mandatory evaluation periods with potential for real impact on curriculum at large.  being able to test education theory in different settings to find out what works best for various socioeconomic groups in various locations throughout the US is a legit good thing so we can apply those things to where they would do the most good education is one of those things where there will be no "one answer" across the US, and what works in poor inner city classrooms probably won't work in poor rural areas
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Nov 16, 2016 19:54
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Powercrazy posted:I'm not here to provide a grand-unified theory of Mind, but can we all agree that Charter schools are poo poo? Thanks. education is one of those issues where some of those Charter schools may actually be A Legit Good Thing, and since I may have to get a job at one I ain't gonna give out a blanket gently caress you to them yet as always they need effective regulations but we won't get that so honestly I still don't know what I think about them overall except that there's def gonna be some suckage there
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Nov 16, 2016 19:58
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Well What Now posted:education is one of those issues where some of those Charter schools may actually be A Legit Good Thing, and since I may have to get a job at one I ain't gonna give out a blanket gently caress you to them yet I work in the pharmaceutical industry and if anything it's just cemented my belief that it's the devil incarnate
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Nov 16, 2016 20:03
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Battle Royale Baby posted:Where does the party go in a presidential election where their candidate is already coming out of this with a million more votes than her opponent in growing? Hopefully, not too far. And, anyone purposefully trying advocate for some huge shift is likely someone trying to re-fight a primary they couldn’t win because their guy could not attract the diverse coalition that is the Democratic Party. If they try this coup, it’ll be beaten back, again. This is the best part Paul Ryan is already getting MAGA tattooed on his forehead and wondering if running a Hitler clone can help him win those couple state legislatures the GOP needs to be able to rewrite the Constitution
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Nov 16, 2016 20:03
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bump_fn posted:https://twitter.com/ngaudiano/status/798937647662018560 Bernie Sanders is cool
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Nov 16, 2016 20:03
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Atrocious Joe posted:This is the best part or he's wetting himself because he was just stuffed into the Leadership Wicker Man because nobody else in the party wants to be in charge when Trump inevitably wrecks everything
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Nov 16, 2016 20:05
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Fidel Castronaut posted:I teach college composition and yeah, the humanities are a very good place for students to get "woke." I mean, the whole ancient model of the liberal arts education wasn't just JOBS but making good citizens who thought hard about governance and society and such. Yeah this is what I meant by literacy, in the social n civic sense, thx u nonces who assumed I meant that STEM majors can't read I was a STEM major and have a STEM degree and I think we can all agree I can read and write just fine n it's my broke brain that's the issue
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Nov 16, 2016 20:08
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GOOD TIMES ON METH posted:Bernie Sanders is cool
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Nov 16, 2016 20:09
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Cubey posted:holy poo poo are the dems really learning from this election Let's see if the rest of our Democratic peeps agree with this motion
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Nov 16, 2016 20:10
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