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Guy Goodbody posted:IMO, Netflix Marvel blows both DC CW and AoS out of the water. DC CW at it's best is better than Aos at it's best, and DC CW and AoS at their worst are about equal. But DC CW was at it's worst a lot more recently than AoS. I think Netflix shows get an uneven hand in their favor because you can binge it without extended mid season breaks or whatnot, and because they don't often have a "bad season 1". Rather, the Netflix shows tend to start strong and either have a couple bad episodes or drawn out episodes near the end (DD s1, Jessica Jones S1) or have an entire back half full of bad or medicore episodes (DD S2, Luke Cage S1). I'm not denying the Netflix shows aren't better. I think they are. But not by much. I think AOS at its best is pretty close to DD S1. And I'd argue AOS S2/3 is way better than Luke Cage, which really has a whole bunch of flat out bad episodes in the back half. EDIT: RE-Inhumans TV. I can only imagine they are pretty much already in pre-production for this. If they really aren't using any casting from AOS, then they're pretty much talking about making a mini-movie and a TV series within a year from basically now. That's a tall order. I'm kind of concerned this is just being done as a sudden move to get Inhumans rushed out the door so that a movie can happen at some point down the road. notthegoatseguy fucked around with this message at 23:13 on Nov 16, 2016 |
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Nov 16, 2016 23:09
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Spergatory posted:AoS is a better-written and better-plotted show than either Arrow or the Flash (haven't seen Legends, never will). That much is basically inarguable. The AoS writers clearly lay their plots out in advance and are thus able to hint and foreshadow and carefully plan the journey to their endgame, whereas Flash and Arrow are very obviously just making poo poo up as they go along. Again, that's not even something that is up for debate-- the DCTV writers have basically admitted that they are flying by the seat of their pants most of the time. I feel like the Reverse Flash arc was totally planned.
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Nov 16, 2016 23:40
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RareAcumen posted:I feel like the Reverse Flash arc was totally planned. And Arrow supposedly had a broad plan for the first five years, tied to his flashbacks to his "five years of whatever". Not sure what they will do next year. I wonder if he will start flashing back to S1.
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Nov 17, 2016 00:10
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RareAcumen posted:I feel like the Reverse Flash arc was totally planned. Oh, absolutely. As was Arrow seasons 1 and 2; immaculately so, in fact. But after that, everything more or less went completely off the rails. It's part of why those shows have become so frustrating to me: they've shown that they certainly can plan and execute an arc, and that fairly amazing things happen when they do. It's just that they... well, don't.
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Nov 17, 2016 00:21
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Spergatory posted:Oh, absolutely. As was Arrow seasons 1 and 2; immaculately so, in fact. But after that, everything more or less went completely off the rails. It's part of why those shows have become so frustrating to me: they've shown that they certainly can plan and execute an arc, and that fairly amazing things happen when they do. It's just that they... well, don't. The most enjoyable thing about the CW shows last season were the /u/OnBenchNow synopses on Reddit. In fact I just stopped watching the episodes in favor of those towards the end. But I absolutely was on board for Arrow S1 and S2 and Flash S1.
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Nov 17, 2016 00:53
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I like Gotham.
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Nov 17, 2016 01:40
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Phylodox posted:I like Gotham. Gotham got a lot more fun when they decided to go full Got-Ham and realized they were a comic book show, not a police procedural flimsily set in a comic book world.
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Nov 17, 2016 01:51
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At the end of the day, the typical comic book nerd opinion is "DC movie bad, Marvel movie good, DC CW good, AoS bad, Netflix Marvel good" regardless of the actual quality of these shows. It's also not to be confused with the general public opinion, where DC and Marvel movies are about as profitable as one another while Gotham is more popular than any single CW show or AoS.
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Nov 17, 2016 02:31
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The MSJ posted:At the end of the day, the typical comic book nerd opinion is "DC movie bad, Marvel movie good, DC CW good, AoS bad, Netflix Marvel good" regardless of the actual quality of these shows. The audience for CW DC shows is a very, very different audience. That's all there is to it, really.
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Nov 17, 2016 03:04
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The MSJ posted:At the end of the day, the typical comic book nerd opinion is "DC movie bad, Marvel movie good, DC CW good, AoS bad, Netflix Marvel good" regardless of the actual quality of these shows. I think Superman Returns was the last DC movie to review well at all and the Nolan Batman movies were the last ones that were near-universally praised. Trying to mimic Marvel's format seems to be hurting DC's movie quality, though maybe it's Snyder who can't figure that poo poo out.
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Nov 17, 2016 04:43
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DC is not really trying to copy Marvel when it comes to movies. If the MCU movies had been progressing like the DC ones, Iron Man would have been followed by a Hulk vs Iron Man movie the year after, which would probably be better from a narrative standpoint and sets up their science bro status in Avengers. As it is, a lot of more interesting things that could have happened in Phase 1 (Cap's WW2 adventure, Stark facing the consequences of his father's actions, Thor finding an alternative route to Earth) had to be handwaved away in order for The Avengers to arrive by 2012. Zach Snyder figured out a lot. The problem for most people is that it's not the same thing they figured out. All the mythic elements and thematic subtext of his movies are like him making a Westworld Host design and construction video for an audience of Hosts. "I don't see anything here."
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Nov 17, 2016 05:04
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You're getting into the weeds when you read my statement that DC is mimicking Marvel. DC wanted an ongoing cinematic continuity like Marvel has even if some of the details are different. They're failing and it's largely because they're having trouble making movies that geeks and general audiences both enjoy.
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Nov 17, 2016 05:14
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DC just seems to be pumping out these cheap, poorly written shows, none of them come close to the quality of AoS in my opinion. I enjoy watching Flash, but it is in its third season, and the writing is still as bad as when it started. I would even take AoS over any of the Marvel Netflix shows, they are good but all suffer from being 3-4 episodes too long.
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Nov 17, 2016 05:35
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As much as I love Marvel Netflix shows, they have yet to stick a landing and have a good end to a season. The first half of Daredevil S2 was probably as good as it gets, while the second half... yeah. Top marks for tone and character development and world building though, holy poo poo all those things are consistently amazing.
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Nov 17, 2016 06:09
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I would think that rushing to get that second season of Daredevil made caused a drop in quality during production.
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Nov 17, 2016 06:31
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Mraagvpeine posted:I would think that rushing to get that second season of Daredevil made caused a drop in quality during production. That, and I suspect they struggled to explore the Hand plot and the Punisher plot at once, and both suffered. Although I agree that all the Netflix shows are a few episodes too long, I still think they're the most interesting superhero narratives we're getting. Flaws aside, they're pretty solid about explored themes, and occasionally go in subversive or insightful directions despite being Disney products. I mean, Jessica Jones is an incredibly layered exploration of rape culture, trauma, and living as a survivor. Luke Cage hits on prison-industrial injustice, racialized violence, and BLM civil disobedience. Those are interesting approaches to costumed punch man stories and not many other storytellers in this space are going for that.
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Nov 17, 2016 12:59
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Xealot posted:I mean, Jessica Jones is an incredibly layered exploration of rape culture, trauma, and living as a survivor. Luke Cage hits on prison-industrial injustice, racialized violence, and BLM civil disobedience. Those are interesting approaches to costumed punch man stories and not many other storytellers in this space are going for that. I agree on both. But as far as tight storytelling, I think AOS S2 is a lot better than JJ (a few episodes too long) or Cage (honestly like 6 episodes too long). Hell, I'd take even the shittiest AOS villains over loving Diamondback. I think Defenders might work out since it'll only be 8 episodes long, though I'm kind of concerned with them juggling so many characters at once.
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Nov 17, 2016 20:51
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notthegoatseguy posted:I agree on both. But as far as tight storytelling, I think AOS S2 is a lot better than JJ (a few episodes too long) or Cage (honestly like 6 episodes too long). Hell, I'd take even the shittiest AOS villains over loving Diamondback. Plus, Sigourney Weaver, who will be fantastic even if she phones it in.
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Nov 17, 2016 20:56
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notthegoatseguy posted:I agree on both. But as far as tight storytelling, I think AOS S2 is a lot better than JJ (a few episodes too long) or Cage (honestly like 6 episodes too long). Hell, I'd take even the shittiest AOS villains over loving Diamondback. Diamondback was loving awful. What's funny about him, though, is that he seemed to be terrible... in universe too? I mean even his XO is calling him out for being dumb as gently caress, and he's totally right about it. Xealot posted:That, and I suspect they struggled to explore the Hand plot and the Punisher plot at once, and both suffered. I would bet money that Daredevil Season 2 was a bunch of factors: - A corporate mandate to do Elektra - A corporate mandate to do The Punisher - A corporate mandate to do the Hand - A new show runner likely having a hand in these mandates What made Daredevil season 1 so good was that you spent almost equal time with the villains and heroes, and you got to really know them; every move one took, you got to see the other respond to, and vice versa. In Daredevil Season 2 Matt spent the entire thing out of his depth in the back half, not knowing what was going on (I still have no idea what the gently caress that hole was about). It also amp'ed up the comic book aspect and ruined the grounding they had perfected in the first season. I never realized Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles was primarily a parody of Daredevil until I started laughing how ridiculous Sewer Ninjas were, then went "Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh. The HAND. I get it." That said it wasn't a total waste. The Punisher stuff was top notch across the board and I was entirely happy to hear they green lit that series. It's just the hand stuff was ridiculous, incoherent, and really badly handled. Same with Elektra, really: There was a point where she just started murdering a bunch of good guys that I started thinking of her as irredeemably psychotic, and found it odd Matt was actually warming up to it. Long story short I think they hosed up every non-Punisher thing after the episode 6 mark and should have put more time into that, and done Elektra next season (or just introduced her this season MINUS the crazy ninja stuff, so it would work towards that). Blazing Ownager fucked around with this message at 21:20 on Nov 17, 2016 |
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Nov 17, 2016 21:12
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I actually liked Diamondback in how over the top evil he was
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Nov 17, 2016 21:16
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achillesforever6 posted:I actually liked Diamondback in how over the top evil he was I have to admit I will give them credit for making his plans suck in-universe as much as out, so I can't really get mad at the show for him being stupid. He was supposed to be that way. Shades ended up having an ton more depth than I thought he would. Diamondback was little more than a mad dog.
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Nov 17, 2016 21:44
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I just love diamondback's actor, he sells the I'M DUMB AND EVIL look so well
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Nov 17, 2016 21:55
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I didn't hate the origin flashback we got for Ghost Rider in that last episode. But to be totally honest, all I could think about while I was watching it was "God, this would have been so much cooler with Netflix writing and cinematography and productions." The version we got was honestly really perfunctory and over-narrated.
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Nov 17, 2016 22:15
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BrianWilly posted:I didn't hate the origin flashback we got for Ghost Rider in that last episode. But to be totally honest, all I could think about while I was watching it was "God, this would have been so much cooler with Netflix writing and cinematography and productions." The version we got was honestly really perfunctory and over-narrated. On the other hand, maybe Johnny will show up again later in the season? 
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Nov 17, 2016 22:55
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Fuckin Trump Riot posted:On the other hand, maybe Johnny will show up again later in the season? It's not as if Nick is going to turn down a couple of bucks now at days.
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Nov 17, 2016 23:11
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Blazing Ownager posted:Diamondback was loving awful. Even DD S2 first half has some obvious flaws. That big first scene with the Punisher when he shoots up the Irish gang, there's a whole lot of cameras cutting away as soon as someone gets shot or right before you see anything too graphic. Its almost as if they were told to tone down the violence while still letting Punisher be Punisher.
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Nov 18, 2016 02:14
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Diamondback would be more at home in a straight up blaxploitation movie. He just didn't mesh with the 'world' that Luke Cage built around it. It's like making the villain in Batman Begins Marvin the Martian.
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Nov 18, 2016 05:01
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Doctor Butts posted:Diamondback would be more at home in a straight up blaxploitation movie. He just didn't mesh with the 'world' that Luke Cage built around it.
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Nov 18, 2016 05:32
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Blazing Ownager posted:Shades ended up having an ton more depth than I thought he would. Shades was the only character who had his poo poo together in the entire show. When I first saw him I made Tom Cruise Risky Business jokes because of how dumb he looked, but drat if he didn't grow on me.
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Nov 18, 2016 05:34
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Shades was definitely my favorite character (that survived the show). The "Law-Yer" interrogation scene is one of my three favorite Netflix Marvel scenes, along with the DD S1 hallway fight and the JJ police station scene. Theo Rossi just sells that role so perfectly. Edit: The robbery scene with Method Man is flawless. Ireallylikeeggs fucked around with this message at 06:52 on Nov 18, 2016 |
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Nov 18, 2016 06:38
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Shades and Ward would have been such an amazing team up. 
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Nov 18, 2016 06:44
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I just wish I knew why they called him Shades.
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Nov 18, 2016 12:47
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Ireallylikeeggs posted:Shades was definitely my favorite character (that survived the show). The "Law-Yer" interrogation scene is one of my three favorite Netflix Marvel scenes, along with the DD S1 hallway fight and the JJ police station scene. Theo Rossi just sells that role so perfectly.
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Nov 18, 2016 13:22
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Turk doesn't get enough credit. The perpetually unlucky petty criminal who binds the Netflix shows together. I hope he has a hand in setting up the big bad in the Defenders, and finally gets his revenge right before falling off a building.
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Nov 18, 2016 13:49
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Diamondback was a let-down, but I think Luke Cage was the best of the Marvel shows so far by a slim margin. Honestly there is so much in the Daredevil stuff that I like, but almost none of it is Daredevil himself. I even like Charlie Cox in the part. They're writing him as a sanctimonious, guilt-ridden rear end in a top hat (which maybe he is in the punchingmans comics? iono) and by the end of DD S2, I found myself wanting to be done with any scenes he was in so I could get back to the stuff I was enjoying.
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Nov 18, 2016 14:02
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Sanctimonious guilt-ridden rear end in a top hat is Daredevil, yeah. Like they've been 1000% kinder to the people surrounding Matt in comparison to the comics.
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Nov 18, 2016 14:09
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homullus posted:Diamondback was a let-down, but I think Luke Cage was the best of the Marvel shows so far by a slim margin. Honestly there is so much in the Daredevil stuff that I like, but almost none of it is Daredevil himself. I even like Charlie Cox in the part. They're writing him as a sanctimonious, guilt-ridden rear end in a top hat (which maybe he is in the punchingmans comics? iono) and by the end of DD S2, I found myself wanting to be done with any scenes he was in so I could get back to the stuff I was enjoying. 
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Nov 18, 2016 14:12
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Daredevil is Catholic Guilt, the Comic. But they really pour it on in the Netflix series more than in the comic books even Born Again or the Electra Saga.
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Nov 18, 2016 15:14
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Humbug Scoolbus posted:Daredevil is Catholic Guilt, the Comic. But they really pour it on in the Netflix series more than in the comic books even Born Again or the Electra Saga. At least in the first season.
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Nov 18, 2016 15:32
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Mulva posted:Sanctimonious guilt-ridden rear end in a top hat is Daredevil, yeah. Like they've been 1000% kinder to the people surrounding Matt in comparison to the comics. Karen hasn't become a junky and doing porn at least. I hope season 3 gets Typhoid Mary.
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Nov 18, 2016 23:17
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