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spotlessd posted:What does any of this stupid horseshit actually mean? Why are you saying "we" on the left? You're nowhere near it. Articulate your thoughts rather than gesture towards them. What does the "new" ideology look like and where does it different from the "decades old" ideology? What's different about left ideology and "contemporary" ideology? Why do you assume I'm so ideologically impure? My entire point is we are too intellectually crippled on the left (by attacks and the failings of USA/USSR) to actually articulate an ideology for our times. Asking "How does socialism end racism? And if it can't, what will" isn't to fault socialism, but invoke ideation about the ideological merger of the pluralism of the left. And I'm willing to be completely wrong about the direction of growth for the left, but I'm steadfast in the belief we need it. NewForumSoftware posted:Who ever said it was? Then you agree the left should be developing the next ideology beyond socialism?
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Nov 21, 2016 21:16
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Gringostar posted:Nice dodge there. I'm sorry, how exactly did I dodge your question? Whoever bought me this title honestly has no clue about my upbringing, my family in my country of birth, where I lived, or anything about me. It's weird that you think that red titles should be taken seriously though, since anyone can buy them and put whatever poo poo they want in them.
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Nov 21, 2016 21:16
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I saw a good question on r/politicaldiscussion. What happens when terrorists attack overseas Trump holdings? Does he send the military out to defend/take them back?
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Nov 21, 2016 21:17
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I agree, we need a breath of fresh air on the left. A "New Liberalism" , if you will
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Nov 21, 2016 21:17
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Tatsuta Age posted:Only twice on two pages I guess. Coulda sworn Gringostar quoted you as well but I was wrong. K, well I answered their questions, so if you have any other questions to ask me about my personal life let me know
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Nov 21, 2016 21:17
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Boon posted:I don't think this is going to surprise anyone, but here's a fascinating graph that I found in an Economist article that I am posting entirely without comment because I'm sitting in class. As it is, it seems to me that globalization would prevent people from around the world from pursuing a career in something if it only has jobs far away in another country which they do not speak the language of, and would put them at a disadvantage even if they did. Like, I'm sure that globalization has its good points, but so does keeping a measure of independence regarding the production of goods and services throughout regions of the world.
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Nov 21, 2016 21:17
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I get that, but his voting record is for civil rights. He won lawsuits against the KKK and a guy who committed a hate crime. He forced desegregation in S. Alabama, etc. etc.
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Nov 21, 2016 21:18
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Business Gorillas posted:Countries that have the most to lose from globalism don't like it and those that have the most to gain do Well yeah, that's obvious. I'm talking about how Britain is surprisingly a larger percentage of foreign born (along with Australia) than other nations, how the developing countries are remarkably lacking in this area, how Finland stands out among Baltic countries. It's just an interesting graph - way more than whatever bullshit this thread is currently arguing futilely about.
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Nov 21, 2016 21:19
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Tight Booty Shorts posted:I'm sorry, how exactly did I dodge your question? Whoever bought me this title honestly has no clue about my upbringing, my family in my country of birth, where I lived, or anything about me. It's weird that you think that red titles should be taken seriously though, since anyone can buy them and put whatever poo poo they want in them. That's because no one cares about any of those things, only that you're a poo poo poster.
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Nov 21, 2016 21:20
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Npr just had a promo about indianan workers expecting known honest man and not swindler Donald trump to keep up his hold of the bargain that they will 100% keep their jobs Tune in tomorrow if you want to hear this hate speech on a nationally syndicated radio program
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Nov 21, 2016 21:20
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Tight Booty Shorts posted:K, well I answered their questions, so if you have any other questions to ask me about my personal life let me know Nope, that was all I was wondering. If you're willing to torpedo your family's future to do the morally right thing at any cost, then I'm unironically impressed.
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Nov 21, 2016 21:21
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Boon posted:Well yeah, that's obvious. I'm talking about how Britain is surprisingly a larger percentage of foreign born (along with Australia) than other nations, how the developing countries are remarkably lacking in this area, how Finland stands out among Baltic countries. I was trying to have a nice conversation about gamergates but I don't think anyone got the joke
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Nov 21, 2016 21:21
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thechosenone posted:I would be fine with calling them out, if an environment which would allow that would exist. If it does not though, what does quitting do? It hurts you, and you seem to be a very principled person, so it would be a shame for that to happen. The job isn't going to go away because you left, and eventually someone who won't pipe up would appear and replace you. Yea, I agree with you, either call it out, or go get another high-paying, white collar, chemistry job somewhere else. How does posting about your co-worker's racism accomplish anything other than prove you're ok with racism as long as you get your paycheck.
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Nov 21, 2016 21:21
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Tatsuta Age posted:Nope, that was all I was wondering. If you're willing to torpedo your family's future to do the morally right thing at any cost, then I'm unironically impressed. Honestly you don't know poo poo about latino immigrant families so I dont give a gently caress what you think 
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Nov 21, 2016 21:22
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Gringostar posted:That's because no one cares about any of those things, only that you're a poo poo poster. I don't know why you're posting poo poo like this, and then calling me a poo poo poster lol
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Nov 21, 2016 21:23
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Tight Booty Shorts posted:Honestly you don't know poo poo about latino immigrant families so I dont give a gently caress what you think Isn't having a family who can help such a nice privilege?
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Nov 21, 2016 21:24
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as a latino immigrant i know a lot about latino immigrant families
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Nov 21, 2016 21:24
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Tight Booty Shorts posted:I don't know why you're posting poo poo like this, and then calling me a poo poo poster lol Objective truth hurts?
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Nov 21, 2016 21:25
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Gringostar posted:Objective truth hurts? I'm not in pain though 
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Nov 21, 2016 21:26
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haveblue posted:The infrastructure plan that will employ every downtrodden white American and cement a thousand years of alt-right darkness is already running into trouble for obvious and easily foreseen reasons He should pay for it from his own pocket lol
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Nov 21, 2016 21:27
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zegermans posted:Why respond to a touch and go shitpost *spreads arms* This is why 
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Nov 21, 2016 21:28
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Pretending the dumb slapfight isn't happening, I have to wonder if this isn't as much an attempt to scoop up disaffected Bernouts and cobble them into the alt right coalition as an approval of Tulsi's hawkishness. I've already talked to a couple of people who responded to this with "well maybe this means Trump isn't as bad as you Hillarybots made him out to be."
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Nov 21, 2016 21:28
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Sounds like they weren't really leftists to begin with if they're willing to fall for such an obvious pander
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Nov 21, 2016 21:29
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Quorum posted:disaffected Bernouts Can you not do this...
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Nov 21, 2016 21:30
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Harsh But True posted:That's what I'm saying though. Other than that one publicized instance of sarcasm, and one person's claim he called them "boy" he's actually acted pretty un-racist. So aside from the times he said racist things, he hasn't acted racist?
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Nov 21, 2016 21:32
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Quorum posted:Pretending the dumb slapfight isn't happening, I have to wonder if this isn't as much an attempt to scoop up disaffected Bernouts and cobble them into the alt right coalition as an approval of Tulsi's hawkishness. I've already talked to a couple of people who responded to this with "well maybe this means Trump isn't as bad as you Hillarybots made him out to be." That's a part of it, but I think it's largely because Trump's fave 5 went "whoah poo poo the racist dumbfuck actually won? Yeah wow I don't want responsibility, I just wanna make smug self-aggrandizing commentary!" and so he's just going down a list.
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Nov 21, 2016 21:33
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Harsh But True posted:That's what I'm saying though. Other than that one publicized instance of sarcasm, and one person's claim he called them "boy" he's actually acted pretty un-racist. Wait are we talking about Sessions or the coworker, I'm confused.
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Nov 21, 2016 21:33
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Tight Booty Shorts posted:Yea, I agree with you, either call it out, or go get another high-paying, white collar, chemistry job somewhere else. How does posting about your co-worker's racism accomplish anything other than prove you're ok with racism as long as you get your paycheck. Well, I think the thing about white collar jobs, especially as they get more specialized, is that there tend to be less of them, and so it would be a more arduous affair to do so. As it is, there are many steps between doing nothing, and having to move away to another city, having to change where your children are educated, changing your id's, adresses, insurance, banks/credit unions, and all the other things that occur from a big move that would be potentially required if one must seek a different job. This has to be weighed against the severity of the infraction, the difficulty of addressing it, and the results of attempting to do so. As it is, everyone's situation is different, and we only have a small piece of the puzzle for us to look at. I'm just not comfortable with burning bridges, especially since it is not a constructive action. it certainly can feel like we are accomplishing something, but I'm not so sure if that is so. have you considered that your presence in the work place could allow you to do more to address the issue, even if it is long term, than separating from it and being unable to address the situation directly? The person who made those comments may listen to what you have to say, and failing that, you may be able to convince your fellow workers to your side, especially if you do not advocate for punitive action at first. attempting less provocative methods of addressing the situation before escalating allows you to build your case with your fellow coworkers, superiors, and any organizations which provide oversight of your workplace directly or indirectly.
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Nov 21, 2016 21:34
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SSNeoman posted:That's a part of it, but I think it's largely because Trump's fave 5 went "whoah poo poo the racist dumbfuck actually won? Yeah wow I don't want responsibility, I just wanna make smug self-aggrandizing commentary!" and so he's just going down a list. It reminds me of Brexit really. We won?! poo poo I don't want to touch that, I just wanted to ride on the red bus! Good luck! vvv Oh Oh, I have a better analogy! It's the political equivalent of the guy who has an idea and he just needs someone else to make it. vvv Gynocentric Regime fucked around with this message at 21:37 on Nov 21, 2016 |
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Nov 21, 2016 21:34
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Glazier posted:It reminds me of Brexit really. We won?! poo poo I don't want to touch that, I just wanted to ride on the red bus! Good luck! I mean, Bannon himself has been installed in a position which allows him to be simultaneously very influential, given its proximity to the president, and completely insulated from blame, since it is not actually a cabinet post or department head or possessed of any real authority of any kind. This is pretty much the model for anyone who can get away with it.
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Nov 21, 2016 21:36
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thechosenone posted:I feel like ideological growth would be something akin to examining older left ideologies, and trying to develop them in ways that reduce their weaknesses and increase their strengths in terms of their ability to catch on with people, how well they can be implemented with the current political climate, and with how current they are to the world of today. Its not your speaking, its your thinking. The very core of left ideology is oriented around exactly the process you describe, as even a passing familiarity with existing left political movements would demonstrate. The problem is that its very difficult to "adapt" to being murdered by liberal capitalists.
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Nov 21, 2016 21:37
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SSNeoman posted:That's a part of it, but I think it's largely because Trump's fave 5 went "whoah poo poo the racist dumbfuck actually won? Yeah wow I don't want responsibility, I just wanna make smug self-aggrandizing commentary!" and so he's just going down a list. Trump loving loves buying off his opponents, though. Can you imagine just how smug he'll be if he splits the left by dangling power in front of the Bernie wing?
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Nov 21, 2016 21:37
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https://twitter.com/tbonier/status/800683256601575424
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Nov 21, 2016 21:39
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thechosenone posted:Well, I think the thing about white collar jobs, especially as they get more specialized, is that there tend to be less of them, and so it would be a more arduous affair to do so. As it is, there are many steps between doing nothing, and having to move away to another city, having to change where your children are educated, changing your id's, adresses, insurance, banks/credit unions, and all the other things that occur from a big move that would be potentially required if one must seek a different job. This has to be weighed against the severity of the infraction, the difficulty of addressing it, and the results of attempting to do so. Sounds good to me... if leaving that racist cesspool of a job is very inconvenient for you, then call out the racism, talk to your boss about it, constructively criticize the racist rear end in a top hat for being racist etc.... do something. If you aren't panning on doing anything about blatant racism then why post about it
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Nov 21, 2016 21:39
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Main Paineframe posted:Trump loving loves buying off his opponents, though. Can you imagine just how smug he'll be if he splits the left by dangling power in front of the Bernie wing? Bernie voters are smarter than you give them credit for 
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Nov 21, 2016 21:40
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Trabisnikof posted:Why do you assume I'm so ideologically impure? My entire point is we are too intellectually crippled on the left (by attacks and the failings of USA/USSR) to actually articulate an ideology for our times. You're intellectually crippled by liberalism. I think you need to describe what you imagine the "left" to be before we continue, and ideology itself for that matter.
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Nov 21, 2016 21:41
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Tight Booty Shorts posted:Bernie voters are smarter than you give them credit for Yeah there are a small minority who were just drawn to outsiders and might be swayed by Trump but at our caucus the majority of them were minorities of all types.
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Nov 21, 2016 21:42
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I honestly think things would go much smoother here if we simply addressed each other in good faith when we speak to each other. I understand what we are discussing is very important, but we hurt ourselves just as much as anyone else when we use harsh words with each other (I know we have people who will say things that sound inflammatory, but the vast majority of the time what you see in their words is either not what they mean, not the whole picture, or some other misunderstanding or simply a misconception or misspeaking). Even if someone is arguing in bad faith, it doesn't do any good to respond in the same way they did, and it generally helps things run smoothly. Everyone here is a reasonable, functioning member of society, no matter what we think of ourselves or each other. I know it is hard to keep to such a standard, especially with how casual our forum is (which is not necessarily a bad thing), but I feel like it is just less frustrating in the end to do so. Even if one cannot get everyone to follow this idea, I think that it still helps one on a personal level to have meaningful discussions with each other, decreases misunderstandings which would otherwise otherwise lead to stressful arguments over things we share significant common ground over, regarding things we might only disagree on due to a lack of context or point of view.
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Nov 21, 2016 21:43
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Tight Booty Shorts posted:Bernie voters are smarter than you give them credit for If you're any indication about their political actions, I kind of doubt it. spotlessd posted:You're intellectually crippled by liberalism. I think you need to describe what you imagine the "left" to be before we continue, and ideology itself for that matter. Aw fck yes you're here! Now NFS, you and I can make This Thread Great Again.
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Nov 21, 2016 21:43
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