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the only hope now is that dems have a second obama-like candidate who comes out of fuckin nowhere to take over except lol that isn't happening buckle up for two term trump
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Nov 21, 2016 23:49
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Like seriously how can you call what I said not fighting at all.
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Nov 21, 2016 23:50
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Oh Snapple! posted:Realized it within a day of her supporting Bernie. Seemed cool at first but then I saw the anti-muslim poo poo among other stuff and realized she mostly just saw which way the wind was blowing and picked accordingly. I wonder if Ellison gaining momentum is what caused her to go to trump.
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Nov 21, 2016 23:50
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Shemp the Stooge posted:I wonder if Ellison gaining momentum is what caused her to go to trump. She should get primaried
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Nov 21, 2016 23:51
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GlyphGryph posted:No, because if you are selling a narrative that is more appealing while also attacking them, no one is going to believe them and in order to repea it they need to leave your criticism unaddressed and undermining their own argument. you must know different americans than i do, because they are super loving concerned about their taxes and think anything the government proposes is going to raise them
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Nov 21, 2016 23:52
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people are morons that don't understand taxes except that they're bad for nebulous reasons so "paying taxes is a good thing" won't resonate with most voters
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Nov 21, 2016 23:53
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Karl Sharks posted:you must know different americans than i do, because they are super loving concerned about their taxes and think anything the government proposes is going to raise them Except war
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Nov 21, 2016 23:53
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GlyphGryph posted:Like seriously how can you call what I said not fighting at all. because people who are already suspicious that "government doing things = i pay more in taxes" are going to hear you not addressing that at all, while railing against the rich but saying they just "might have to pay back some of what they stole from you"
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Nov 21, 2016 23:54
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logikv9 posted:people are morons that don't understand taxes except that they're bad for nebulous reasons so "paying taxes is a good thing" won't resonate with most voters It should be possible to reframe the issue (so it more closely resembles reality) to how capitalism allowed the rich to steal from the poor and taxes are the people forcing them to give back what they stole
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Nov 21, 2016 23:55
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Democrats don't need to win 100% of votes to win elections.
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Nov 21, 2016 23:55
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logikv9 posted:people are morons that don't understand taxes except that they're bad for nebulous reasons so "paying taxes is a good thing" won't resonate with most voters i never said to try to get that point across at this time, but you can't say with nebulous language that the rich might pay for some of this while the other side is saying you are definitely going to be paying 200% more in taxes and get nothing for it that's a losing argument, period. Lawman 0 posted:Except war that's something even the republicans are good with, so that doesn't count
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Nov 21, 2016 23:55
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Karl Sharks posted:you must know different americans than i do, because they are super loving concerned about their taxes and think anything the government proposes is going to raise them No joke do what trump did with the wall, demonize the ultra rich as useless parasites who are responsible for outsourcing all the jobs, say you'll make them pay for it without ever bringing up the dreaded 3 letter word. Unlike trump, actually follow through on it.
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Nov 21, 2016 23:58
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Agean90 posted:No joke do what trump did with the wall, demonize the ultra rich as useless parasites who are responsible for outsourcing all the jobs, say you'll make them pay for it without ever bringing up the dreaded 3 letter word. imo there's a lot of ammo in the "parasites sucking the blood of the working class and the Earth itself" narrative when it comes to the global capitalist elite people want someone to blame for their life being lovely, so why not aim them at the true culprits?
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Nov 22, 2016 00:02
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Agean90 posted:No joke do what trump did with the wall, demonize the ultra rich as useless parasites who are responsible for outsourcing all the jobs, say you'll make them pay for it without ever bringing up the dreaded 3 letter word. trump said tax all the time, oh my god guys we can't not say tax because the political genius said it, what do we doooo
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Nov 22, 2016 00:02
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Agean90 posted:Problem is even when you say your only going to tax the rich the middle class immediately assumes they are next and panic, because the majority of them have poo poo finances that can't handle financial shock the problem is that a lot of the people who consider themselves "middle class" really aren't because of wage stagnation, but decades of messaging have convinced a lot of people who are in the bottom rungs of the economic ladder that they're still middle class, by adjusting the definition of "middle class" to mean "has some nice things." the definition of "poverty" has been pushed so far down by budget hawks who think that poor people have luxuries like refrigerators to the point where there's this big gap of people who can't make enough to make ends meet, but are making too much to qualify for government assistance.
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Nov 22, 2016 00:02
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Agean90 posted:No joke do what trump did with the wall, demonize the ultra rich as useless parasites who are responsible for outsourcing all the jobs, say you'll make them pay for it without ever bringing up the dreaded 3 letter word. Yeah, make it about taking your money back and getting paid fairly for your work, not about taxing people. If someone tries to use the job creator line, answer back by looking straight into the camera and saying, "I have a question for the American people, did you buy something today? That makes you a job creator. Under my plan, you're going to earn more money and be able to buy more things. You'll create more jobs."
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Nov 22, 2016 00:03
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Agean90 posted:No joke do what trump did with the wall, demonize the ultra rich as useless parasites who are responsible for outsourcing all the jobs, say you'll make them pay for it without ever bringing up the dreaded 3 letter word. This comingafteryouall posted:Yeah, make it about taking your money back and getting paid fairly for your work, not about taxing people. This (emphasis mine). firebeats has issued a correction as of 00:09 on Nov 22, 2016 |
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Nov 22, 2016 00:03
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Shemp the Stooge posted:I wonder if Ellison gaining momentum is what caused her to go to trump. Ellison is barely going to cause a blip in the Democratic Party. He is going to spend the next 2 years frantically attending as many fundraising dinners as possible to minimize losses in 2018, and then deal with the fact that he has a dismal talent pool to draw upon in 2020 and begin frantically fundraising again.
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Nov 22, 2016 00:06
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Serf posted:imo there's a lot of ammo in the "parasites sucking the blood of the working class and the Earth itself" narrative when it comes to the global capitalist elite You do realize that the global capitalist elite is part of the Democratic base.
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Nov 22, 2016 00:07
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https://twitter.com/SenSanders/status/800807231449169920 https://twitter.com/SenSanders/status/800808371540598784 https://twitter.com/SenSanders/status/800808513928908800 https://twitter.com/SenSanders/status/800808819362250752 This is good messaging
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Nov 22, 2016 00:08
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firebeats posted:This good luck having a conversation and proposals on taxes without using the word tax
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Nov 22, 2016 00:08
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bump_fn posted:https://twitter.com/SenSanders/status/800807231449169920 he said 'tax' in 3/4 tweets  it's almost as if you can improve your messaging without abandoning essential words! loving cowards, ffs
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Nov 22, 2016 00:09
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zen death robot posted:I'm guessing everyone realizes that Gabbard is bad now huh Probably woulda beat Trump tho
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Nov 22, 2016 00:11
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TyrantWD posted:You do realize that the global capitalist elite is part of the Democratic base. I would argue they are not part of the base, but they definitely have a lot of our machinery in their hands so they gotta go
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Nov 22, 2016 00:11
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while we're at it, let's stop using the words regulation, welfare, equality, race, sexuality, abortion, choice and hell, government! because why not?
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Nov 22, 2016 00:12
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Karl Sharks posted:good luck having a conversation and proposals on taxes without using the word tax Pretty sure the idea is to avoid it in any situation where Frank Luntz has already placed snipers.
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Nov 22, 2016 00:13
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firebeats posted:Pretty sure the idea is to avoid it in any situation where Frank Luntz has already placed snipers. Agean90 posted:No joke do what trump did with the wall, demonize the ultra rich as useless parasites who are responsible for outsourcing all the jobs, say you'll make them pay for it without ever bringing up the dreaded 3 letter word. just a quick one people loved i never said use tax every third word, but good lord people are going loving insane with how they're kneejerking a 180 without considering that you can keep the baby with the bathwater
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Nov 22, 2016 00:14
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Karl Sharks posted:trump said tax all the time, oh my god guys we can't not say tax because the political genius said it, what do we doooo lmao congrats on missing the point of that post and getting pissy over dive bar grade politics chat
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Nov 22, 2016 00:15
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the 2020 democratic candidate will probably be some bland, left-center dude and we're going to rehash the 2016 ideological purity flamewars again  i'm betting one dollar on o'malley, who apparently is running for everything nowadays
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Nov 22, 2016 00:16
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Agean90 posted:lmao congrats on missing the point of that post and getting pissy over dive bar grade politics chat what was your point that i missed and haven't already agreed to in this thread?
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Nov 22, 2016 00:16
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the past 36 years of the right rubbing themselves raw over austerity and the austrian school of economics have done more to damage the middle and working classes than anything else imho
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Nov 22, 2016 00:16
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logikv9 posted:the 2020 democratic candidate will probably be some bland, left-center dude and we're going to rehash the 2016 ideological purity flamewars again 2016 sure was about ideological purity and not wonkery vs process
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Nov 22, 2016 00:18
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Agean90 posted:lmao congrats on missing the point of that post and getting pissy over dive bar grade politics chat Please, C-SPAM is the new DNC war room, where the best and brightest pilot innovative new techniques to Make America Blue Again! logikv9 posted:she's supposed to be an economic populist (which is why she went for bernie) but she lusts for muslim death (which is why she's going to be trump's token democrat) I think lusting for muslim death is a pretty good litmus test for who is and isn't a progressive. If you're in favor of bombing browns, you're probably not down with the proletariat.
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Nov 22, 2016 00:19
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Karl Sharks posted:what was your point that i missed and haven't already agreed to in this thread? I was mostly saying that saying you'll raise taxes can backfire quickly enough that dodging it by implication is easier and more effective for riling up a crowd, not that saying the word TAX will immediately make people poo poo themselves regardless of context.
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Nov 22, 2016 00:20
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Not a Step posted:Please, C-SPAM is the new DNC war room, where the best and brightest pilot innovative new techniques to Make America Blue Again! are you questioning my c-spam bonafides or something? lmao
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Nov 22, 2016 00:20
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what else would democrats talk about with other democrats if we didn't have ideological purity tests?
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Nov 22, 2016 00:20
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I mean we could spend the next 4 years talking about whether to use the word tax or not.
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Nov 22, 2016 00:21
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Serf posted:I would argue they are not part of the base, but they definitely have a lot of our machinery in their hands so they gotta go One third of Democrat's representation in the House come from CA, NY and MA, and funding largely comes from your big coastal cities. It's not just the CEO tier of individual who shares their views. A large number of the people who live in these areas are from households pulling in six figures, and whose beliefs aren't radically different from Lloyd Blankfein's or Jamie Dimon's. Minorities scared shitless by the GOP and this group of coastal liberals are the majority of the Democratic Party.
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Nov 22, 2016 00:22
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Agean90 posted:I was mostly saying that saying you'll raise taxes can backfire quickly enough that dodging it by implication is easier and more effective for ruling up a crowd, not that saying the word TAX will immediately make people poo poo themselves regardless of context. but my point is you can't do that every time and that point was already made and i agreed wholeheartedly, which is why i thought you were trying to make another
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Nov 22, 2016 00:22
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comingafteryouall posted:I mean we could spend the next 4 years talking about whether to use the word tax or not. SAY THE WORDS DEMOCRATS RADICAL DEMOCRATIC TAXISTS
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Nov 22, 2016 00:23
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