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Trabisnikof posted:And remember how attacking Gore as a lovely candidate kept his kind of Third Wayism out of the Democratic nomination for good? 16 years ago friend, times have changed also, don't worry, Gore and Kerry are both still very remembered for their failures as well, they'll be mentioned in the future, don't worry
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Nov 22, 2016 06:52
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Crowsbeak posted:It gets better. Needs the Socialists to be 13 people squabbling with each other over who's the most leftist and punching one another in the groin instead of dealing with actual issues to be truly accurate 
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Nov 22, 2016 06:52
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iospace posted:
Just take a step back and appreciate the joke I'm trying to make re: liberals acting like corporations when it comes to taxes smh
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Nov 22, 2016 06:52
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THE SANCTITY OF THE TOXX 
so I didn't see the problem 
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iospace posted:
Uh what
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Nov 22, 2016 06:53
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Trabisnikof posted:And remember how attacking Gore as a lovely candidate kept his kind of Third Wayism out of the Democratic nomination for good? Actually instead alot of libs pretended he was there president. Maybe they should have rejected his third wayism.
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Nov 22, 2016 06:53
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Kinda crazy to see the usual suspects like Trabisniskof doubling-down on Third way Abuelalism. HRC is killed politically. She and her husband are pariahs - I'm pretty happy that a side-effect of the election outcome is that it's killed their foundation, apparently no one wants to donate to them anymore.
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Nov 22, 2016 06:54
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NewForumSoftware posted:[citation needed] Her being a lovely candidate has nothing to do with it being "the acute failure of neoliberalism." Neoliberalism wasn't why she had poor charisma or didn't focus on the Rust Belt. Neoliberalism certainly didn't make her use that stupid email server. People say Biden would have won, isn't he just as neoliberal, but a vastly better salesperson for lying to the working class right?
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Nov 22, 2016 06:54
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Honestly, both wings of the left were too up their rear end in ideology purity tests. "OH NO, BERNIE IS TOO FAR LEFT, HE'LL NEVER GET ELECTED!" "BITCH PLEASE, HILLARY IS A NEOLIBERAL, I'M NOT VOTING FOR HER!" so on and so forth. Don't see purpose in dredging this up again aside from smugposting and "I told you so"s
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Nov 22, 2016 06:55
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Trabisnikof posted:Her being a lovely candidate has nothing to do with it being "the acute failure of neoliberalism."
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Nov 22, 2016 06:55
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shrike82 posted:Kinda crazy to see the usual suspects like Trabisniskof doubling-down on Third way Abuelalism. Not that crazy to see you completely unable to read posts, per usual. Where did I say Third Wayism was good?
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Nov 22, 2016 06:55
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Would TPP be good for Trump's business interests?
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Nov 22, 2016 06:56
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shrike82 posted:Kinda crazy to see the usual suspects like Trabisniskof doubling-down on Third way Abuelalism. Good. I was hoping they'd donate their wealth to actual charities since ya know, they were the ones who could have stopped white supremacists from taking over every branch of government but instead chose to have lavish fundraisers and leave all the campaigning to Robby Mook, child genius.
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Nov 22, 2016 06:56
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Tir McDohl posted:Would TPP be good for Trump's business interests? There's a 100% chance he doesn't know what TPP is aside from "Obama bad"
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Nov 22, 2016 06:56
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This is basically the  version of a bumper sticker.Also,  at 'socialists' claiming some self-righteous title of having identified the shortcomings of capitalism. Adam Smith would like a word.
Boon fucked around with this message at 06:59 on Nov 22, 2016 |
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Nov 22, 2016 06:56
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Trabisnikof posted:Her being a lovely candidate has nothing to do with it being "the acute failure of neoliberalism." Neoliberalism wasn't why she had poor charisma or didn't focus on the Rust Belt. Neoliberalism certainly didn't make her use that stupid email server. You're literally saying "neoliberalism cannot fail, it can only be failed", fyi
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Nov 22, 2016 06:57
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Tir McDohl posted:Would TPP be good for Trump's business interests? We don't know all his business interests so it is impossible to say.
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Nov 22, 2016 06:57
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Business Gorillas posted:Just take a step back and appreciate the joke I'm trying to make re: liberals acting like corporations when it comes to taxes smh Uh... there wasn't even the slightest hint of that in your post.
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Nov 22, 2016 06:57
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Trabisnikof posted:Her being a lovely candidate has nothing to do with it being "the acute failure of neoliberalism." Neoliberalism wasn't why she had poor charisma or didn't focus on the Rust Belt. Neoliberalism certainly didn't make her use that stupid email server. Actually neoliberalism is precisely why she focused on raising thousands of millions of dollars instead of actually campaigning
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Nov 22, 2016 06:58
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shrike82 posted:Kinda crazy to see the usual suspects like Trabisniskof doubling-down on Third way Abuelalism. Remember when we thought Trump losing would kill his hotels?
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Nov 22, 2016 06:57
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Not a peep from Podesta since the elections... Amazing And this really encapsulates third way neoliberalism in a nutshell https://twitter.com/johnpodesta/status/786988264985100288
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Nov 22, 2016 06:58
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Trabisnikof posted:It seems you and I agree a lot on the why we got here, but disagree on what lesson to learn. I see how effectively capitalism has crushed socialist though and think we need to innovate new ways to attack and challenge those structures. You see the left of the past, which was intended to oppose capitalism, as failed by people and that the structure of the ideology itself is still framed correctly in its opposition of capitalism. No, it's not, because the specific shade of feminist and racial theory advanced today is rooted in ideology which is fundamentally incompatible with opposition to capitalism, which prides itself on a loathsome anti-left politics that flourish among professionals in the first world and drown workers in the third. In fact it's shameful and embarrassing the degree to which an open celebration of market logic and radical individualism forms the core of liberal egalitarian politics today. Don't kid yourself: the people here and in the culture at large advance a notion of diversity which is enamored of capitalism, which revolutionizes capitalism, first by asserting that the (mostly illusory) re-configuration of class along egalitarian lines in the wake of neoliberal transformations constitutes the sole political ambition of women and racial minorities, by glorifying the individual mythologies of class mobility as proof positive that liberal capitalism, in particular the noble fortune 500 company, delivers on issues social justice, and finally by outright lying about the essential role radical left ideology rooted in critique of political economy has played in every single political and legislative victory won along egalitarian lines in the 20th century. If you really want to adapt left politics to the insights of radical feminism, I suggest you start by appropriating one of their favorite lines: my leftism will be anti-capitalist or it will be bullshit.
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Nov 22, 2016 06:58
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Business Gorillas posted:You're literally saying "neoliberalism cannot fail, it can only be failed", fyi I'm saying that's the conclusion that will be drawn if all the criticism is just "Clinton bad" fyi. If you think there are more systemic issues, as I do, then clearly just getting a new candidate in 2020 won't fix everything.
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Nov 22, 2016 06:58
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Boon posted:This is basically the It's 100% correct and there's only one kind of person who'd think this isn't a perfect work of art.
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Nov 22, 2016 06:59
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iospace posted:Uh... there wasn't even the slightest hint of that in your post. Maybe spend less time tripping over yourself trying to find the right smilies for your Perfect Own the next time around
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Nov 22, 2016 06:59
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Guy Goodbody posted:Remember when we thought Trump losing would kill his hotels? They're still dying. The brand is toxic. The people who voted for him can't afford to stay there, and the people who have the money to are staying away.
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Nov 22, 2016 06:59
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Xae posted:We don't know all his business interests so it is impossible to say. He said he's going to negotiate a bunch of bilateral deals instead, think how much opportunity for outright graft that represents.
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Nov 22, 2016 06:59
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I think this sums up the 2016 Election
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Nov 22, 2016 06:59
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shrike82 posted:Not a peep from Podesta since the elections... Amazing Or from Mook. Thy took the money and ran lmao
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Nov 22, 2016 06:59
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iospace posted:They're still dying. The brand is toxic. The people who voted for him can't afford to stay there, and the people who have the money to are staying away. Uh they're gonna get unbelievably more wealthy in the next few years.
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Nov 22, 2016 07:00
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JeffersonClay posted:He said he's going to negotiate a bunch of bilateral deals instead, think how much opportunity for outright graft that represents. The graft already started. Diplomats were openly saying they will be staying at Trump Hotels when possible to curry favor.
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Nov 22, 2016 07:01
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Business Gorillas posted:Re: Nader chat Are you saying Hillary ran to the right of Obama?
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Nov 22, 2016 07:01
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shrike82 posted:Not a peep from Podesta since the elections... Amazing Trump winning changes nothing for Assange, right? The second he steps out of that building, the British cops pick him up and send him to Sweden for the rape charges.
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Nov 22, 2016 07:02
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Don't get me started on Mook and his idolization of Ada, the god-AI that would destroy Trump. HRC cargo-culting Obama's campaigns were a sight to behold.
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Nov 22, 2016 07:02
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iospace posted:They're still dying. The brand is toxic. The people who voted for him can't afford to stay there, and the people who have the money to are staying away. They won't stay away for long when they realize that staying in a Trump hotel is the best way to get Trump's ear. Diplomats are already doing it.
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Nov 22, 2016 07:02
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spotlessd posted:No, it's not, because the specific shade of feminist and racial theory advanced today is rooted in ideology which is fundamentally incompatible with opposition to capitalism, which prides itself on a loathsome anti-left politics that flourish among professionals in the first world and drown workers in the third. In fact it's shameful and embarrassing the degree to which an open celebration of market logic and radical individualism forms the core of liberal egalitarian politics today. Don't kid yourself: the people here and in the culture at large advance a notion of diversity which is enamored of capitalism, which revolutionizes capitalism, first by asserting that the (mostly illusory) re-configuration of class along egalitarian lines in the wake of neoliberal transformations constitutes the sole political ambition of women and racial minorities, by glorifying the individual mythologies of class mobility as proof positive that liberal capitalism, in particular the noble fortune 500 company, delivers on issues social justice, and finally by outright lying about the essential role radical left ideology rooted in critique of political economy has played in every single political and legislative victory won along egalitarian lines in the 20th century. I think we might actually agree on the challenge. I'm inarticulately saying that we need a new and unknown leftist ideology that can marry these seeming intellectual conflicts between these ideologies and transend the specifics of the too-long fight between socialism and capitalism. We need to change the conceptual playing field in a way that allows us to unify the radical ideas and shift the power base away from the status quo. If I was an idiot, I would say something about the block chain. But someway unify our causes and let us fight unfairly against the powers that be. This might just be my humanism showing. I don't know what it is, but I believe it will exist eventually.
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Nov 22, 2016 07:03
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Tight Booty Shorts posted:It's 100% correct and there's only one kind of person who'd think this isn't a perfect work of art. Without googling, who said this? quote:they who feed, clothe, and lodge the whole body of the people, should have such a share of the produce of their own labor as to be themselves tolerably well fed, clothed, and lodged.
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Nov 22, 2016 07:06
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Tight Booty Shorts posted:Uh they're gonna get unbelievably more wealthy in the next few years. Yeah, thanks to him fleecing taxpayers. Sadly the RWM poisoned that line of attack because of how often Obama "went" on vacation (never mind the fact Bush Jr did it more). I've had people bash Obama at work because his wife went on a trip with his daughters, never mind what the trip was for. Though: ComradeCosmobot posted:They won't stay away for long when they realize that staying in a Trump hotel is the best way to get Trump's ear. Diplomats are already doing it. Point.
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Nov 22, 2016 07:06
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Trabisnikof posted:we need a new and unknown leftist ideology I think I'm gonna go with spotlessd on this one.
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Nov 22, 2016 07:06
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Boon posted:Without googling, who said this? ADAM SMITH PFFFFT
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Nov 22, 2016 07:08
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Boon posted:This is basically the Yeah Thomas Paine identified a lot of them too, and Alexis de Tocqueville, and a hell of a lot of other people. Yet somehow a lot of people still think unbridled capitalism is #1. They think putting some con artist in that will export suffering to a non-visible location in the name of profit is a good thing!
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Nov 22, 2016 07:08
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