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Friendly Humour posted:The only ethnic cleasing I've heard about has been one done by the Peshmerga and Shia militias. Noted non-ethnic clensers ISIS
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Nov 19, 2016 22:51
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Is it an ethnic cleansing if you murder everyone regardless of ethnicity?
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Nov 19, 2016 23:03
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Friendly Humour posted:The only ethnic cleasing I've heard about has been one done by the Peshmerga and Shia militias. You have not been paying very close attention, then.
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Nov 19, 2016 23:24
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Friendly Humour posted:The only ethnic cleasing I've heard about has been one done by the Peshmerga and Shia militias. LOL?
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Nov 19, 2016 23:33
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Dusty Baker 2 posted:You have not been paying very close attention, then. I have, which is why I asked. Haven't heard of any ethnic cleansing by the YPG, other than that one Amnesty report way back. And before any of you anal retentive pedantics start posting links to Daesh atrocities, you know bloody well what I meant.
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Nov 19, 2016 23:53
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Collateral Damage posted:Is it an ethnic cleansing if you murder everyone regardless of ethnicity? That's just a cleansing.
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Nov 20, 2016 07:38
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Friendly Humour posted:The only ethnic cleasing I've heard about has been one done by the Peshmerga and Shia militias. I'm pretty sure in this region everyone is after the same thing.
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Nov 20, 2016 14:51
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Everyone and everything must be cleansed.
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Nov 20, 2016 17:08
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Oh hey, turns out the YPG announcing they were leaving Manbij (again) didn't make a drat bit of difference: https://twitter.com/DefenseUnits/status/800429917116788736 quote:#BREAKING: #Turkish warplanes bomb Syrian Democratic Forces #SDF in west of #Manbij city, northern #Syria — there are casualties. http://en.hawarnews.com/turkish-warplanes-strike-mmc-positions/ quote:MANBIJ – Turkish warplanes struck positions of the Manbij Military Council, it was reported on Sunday afternoon.
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Nov 21, 2016 02:21
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Saladin Rising posted:Oh hey, turns out the YPG announcing they were leaving Manbij (again) didn't make a drat bit of difference: The SDF marching on Al-Bab probably didn't help. If they didn't have any reason to believe they had Russian or US support, they were really dumb to do it.
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Nov 21, 2016 03:08
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 Coalition airstrike destroying Daesh VBIED production facility outside of Mosul.
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Nov 21, 2016 06:26
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A monkey attack on a girl in Libya has caused 50 deaths from resulting clan fighting. A friggin. Monkey attack. 
Grouchio fucked around with this message at 18:02 on Nov 21, 2016 |
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Nov 21, 2016 17:57
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Grouchio posted:A monkey attack on a girl in Libya has caused 50 deaths from resulting clan fighting.
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Nov 21, 2016 18:20
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Collateral Damage posted:Some times I wonder if there are areas in the world that are just beyond hope, where there's so much tension and bad blood that it's never going to become a stable region. And then you wake up and realize you're being racist in your willingness to accept the prima facia evidence instead of reading literally the first twenty pages of any book about the history of the Middle East wherein you discover that every native attempt to get out of this situation has been brutally undercut by Western imperialism.
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Nov 21, 2016 18:25
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Collateral Damage posted:Some times I wonder if there are areas in the world that are just beyond hope, where there's so much tension and bad blood that it's never going to become a stable region. The answer is an apocalyptic bombing campaign followed by rebuilding their society from scratch. It worked for the Axis v0v TBF Europe was way worse. They started the bloodiest war in history over some stupid sectarian slap fight like every 20 years for 700 years and the only thing that stopped them was the threat of nuclear annihilation. Rent-A-Cop fucked around with this message at 18:30 on Nov 21, 2016 |
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Nov 21, 2016 18:25
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Collateral Damage posted:Some times I wonder if there are areas in the world that are just beyond hope, where there's so much tension and bad blood that it's never going to become a stable region. Lol. You can say the same thing about Europe. Remember when we ritualistically slaughtered our youth for 30 years?
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Nov 21, 2016 18:32
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Rent-A-Cop posted:
Beaten. But yeah, I guess that was ok because we wore uniforms and did it for totally non-religious reasons like hating the jews/catholics/protestants.
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Nov 21, 2016 18:34
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TildeATH posted:And then you wake up and realize you're being racist in your willingness to accept the prima facia evidence instead of reading literally the first twenty pages of any book about the history of the Middle East wherein you discover that every native attempt to get out of this situation has been brutally undercut by Western imperialism. rear end struggle posted:Lol. You can say the same thing about Europe. Remember when we ritualistically slaughtered our youth for 30 years? Collateral Damage fucked around with this message at 18:38 on Nov 21, 2016 |
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Nov 21, 2016 18:34
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Collateral Damage posted:I'm not arguing against the reasons here, I'm well aware where to put the blame. It was just a reflection on the quoted article.  Some times I wonder if there are areas in the world that are just beyond hope, where there's so much tension and bad blood that it's never going to become a stable region.
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Nov 21, 2016 18:37
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rear end struggle posted:
To be fair, the jury is still out on whether the Balkans are stable or whether we're in for another couple rounds of ethnic cleansing.
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Nov 21, 2016 19:36
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Orange Devil posted:To be fair, the jury is still out on whether the Balkans are stable or whether we're in for another couple rounds of ethnic cleansing. something I wonder every time I go to Antwerp. drat Dutch. double nine fucked around with this message at 20:57 on Nov 21, 2016 |
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Nov 21, 2016 20:12
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Orange Devil posted:To be fair, the jury is still out on whether the Balkans are stable or whether we're in for another couple rounds of ethnic cleansing. WWI was not a Balkans thing. Regardless of what happens there in the future, it's not going to drag the whole world into war through a complex system of dynastic alliances and the ambitions of emperor's and despots like it did 100 years ago, is the point. Progress happened.
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Nov 21, 2016 20:15
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An interesting article about the regime returning to Moadamiyeh, and what the transition has been like: http://syriadirect.org/news/former-...urned%E2%80%99/ Another interesting article about the general US withdrawal from Euphrates Shield, and the effects it may have: https://www.stratfor.com/analysis/syria-turkish-allys-untimely-departure quote:Under these circumstances, the withdrawal of U.S. support is untimely for Ankara to say the least. The U.S. special operations forces on the ground and coalition air support were a helpful addition in the fight against the Islamic State, but they were even more crucial as a deterrent to loyalist action in the area. Loyalist — and by extension, Iranian and Russian — unease over a potential clash with U.S. forces was an added layer of security to the Turkish-backed operation in northern Aleppo. With U.S. forces leaving, that effect is gone. Other news, Sheikh Naser went from SDF to Euphrates Shield and then back to SDF control today: https://twitter.com/MIG29_/status/800818171762606080 quote:Shield Euphrates militants attack SDF in North east Aleppo CS , and capture Al-Sheikh Naser Euphrates Shield got pushed back north of Al Bab: https://twitter.com/sayed_ridha/status/800699557747171328 quote:FSA failed to regain Qabasin from IS YPG are mad at the US/coalition, as expected: https://twitter.com/M1Massoud/status/800610923396349952 quote:#MMC: USA coalition has promised us to protect our area after YPG withdraw to east Euphrates, Turkish army used this withdraw to attack us! https://twitter.com/CivilWarMap/status/800789238451081216 quote:#YPG threatens to stop Raqqa offensive if the US-Coaltion does not prevent "turkish aggression" towards #SDF forces. 
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Nov 22, 2016 00:38
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There sure doesn't seem to be a lot of movement on the Raqqa front, which seems like it can't be a coincidence when it coincides with the SDF's advance on Al-Bab and subsequent Turkish bombing of Manbij. With Michael Flynn as Trump's closest foreign policy adviser, I have a feeling the Kurds are about to get massively hosed. Erdogan made a good investment there, because Flynn went from cheering on the coup attempt to loudly arguing about how we need to stand with our Turkish ally and deport the traitor Gulen after his company started lobbying for Turkey. efb dammit
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Nov 22, 2016 00:39
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Turkey issued an arrest warrant for Salih Muslim. http://www.middleeasteye.net/news/turkey-issues-arrest-warrant-syrian-kurdish-leader-1066085496
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Nov 22, 2016 15:22
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Karl Sharks posted:https://twitter.com/maggieNYT/status/801136758717116418
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Nov 22, 2016 20:01
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Dunno if this is really a good place to ask but why not. Not too long ago the topic of "is there any hope for the Middle East?" was brought up by a poster and he was kinda shot down by a bunch of people saying yeah there is hope but the US keeps loving things up. I've never really studied the region in any detail or the overall effect of American foreign policy on it. Has anyone here read "A World of Trouble: The White House and the Middle East" by Patrick Tyler? It seems like a good place to start educating myself. If you have any other books you can recommend, I'd welcome that too.
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Nov 22, 2016 23:32
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NikkolasKing posted:Dunno if this is really a good place to ask but why not. I've really enjoyed reading a book called The Tenth Parallel: Dispatches from the Fault Line Between Christianity and Islam. I feel like it gave an insightful look at the current state of the global south and gave a fairly reasonable recent picture as to how we got there.
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Nov 22, 2016 23:55
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I'm curious: to what extent did communism spread in the Middle East during the Cold War, and are there any traces of it (parties, etc) still left in the region?
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Nov 23, 2016 01:18
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goose willis posted:I'm curious: to what extent did communism spread in the Middle East during the Cold War, and are there any traces of it (parties, etc) still left in the region? The Ba'ath parties were supposedly socialist, but in practice...
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Nov 23, 2016 02:45
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goose willis posted:I'm curious: to what extent did communism spread in the Middle East during the Cold War, and are there any traces of it (parties, etc) still left in the region? As far as I know, just in the Kurdish regions. The PYD (who most folks know through the YPG, their armed wing) in Syria, PKK in Turkey, and PJAK in Iran are all communist, though they haven't been Marxist-Leninist for about a decade.
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Nov 23, 2016 02:59
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Cat Mattress posted:The Ba'ath parties were supposedly socialist, but in practice... Iraq had free and I think decent healthcare before the 90s, and I though had free college too. Tons of government subsidies on fuel and power, but thats common in the region.
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Nov 23, 2016 04:00
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Jazerus posted:As far as I know, just in the Kurdish regions. The PYD (who most folks know through the YPG, their armed wing) in Syria, PKK in Turkey, and PJAK in Iran are all communist, though they haven't been Marxist-Leninist for about a decade. quote:Communalism proposes a radically different form of economy – one that is neither nationalized nor collectivized according to syndicalist precepts. It proposes that markets and money be abolished and that land and enterprises be placed increasingly in the custody of the community – more precisely, the custody of citizens in free assemblies and their delegates in confederal councils. How work should be planned, what technologies should be used, how goods should be distributed are seen as questions that can only be resolved in practice. http://www.middleeasteye.net/in-depth/features/young-female-mayor-breaks-boundaries-syrian-town-freed-552711157  (Tal Abyad co-mayors, 51-year-old Hamdan al-Abad (R) and 27-year-old Layla Mohammed.) quote:For more than a year, women in the Syrian town of Tal Abyad were forced to abide by the Islamic State’s harsh interpretation of Islam. They were not allowed to work, smoke, go to restaurants or fraternise with men who were not their direct relatives and those who disobeyed the rules were often punished and beaten. Some were even killed, beheaded and crucified, and their headless bodies were displayed in the centre of the city.
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Nov 23, 2016 04:03
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goose willis posted:I'm curious: to what extent did communism spread in the Middle East during the Cold War, and are there any traces of it (parties, etc) still left in the region? I had one professor who felt the Gulf War marked the end of the Cold War, because the Russians were unwilling (or incapable) to provide any protection for Iraq. The Soviets traded massive amounts of firepower to countries who were willing to ally themselves with the Soviets, staring with Khrushchev. This is why the AK-47 is so prevalent all over the world, including the Middle East.
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Nov 23, 2016 04:07
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NikkolasKing posted:If you have any other books you can recommend, I'd welcome that too. A Peace to End All Peace, by David Fromkin, is a really good grounding in the beginnings of modern relations between western and middle eastern governments, Sykes-Picot borders, and so on. For such a heavy topic it was also kind of a fun read.
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Nov 23, 2016 04:09
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I don't feel like pulling out any of my notes on the subject but various movements of communism and socialism have left a huge footprint all over the Middle East, but was generally reinterpreted to better fit with Islam and local practical concerns and aspirations. The most orthodox socialist state in the Middle East was probably the People's Republic of South Yemen which I know nothing about except that it was very secular. South Yemeni's are still generally much more secular and with a weaker tribal affiliation than their North Yemeni counterparts, and if you watch interviews with militiamen fighting with the Saudi coalition their speech is full of commie lingo. There were important socialist parties in all the Arab Republics but their biggest influence was in how their ideas permeated or were co-opted by the Arab-Nationalists like Nasser and the Baath. While never orthodox in the socialism these groups were naturally drawn to the anti-imperialist rhetoric of the Soviets and generally attempted to implement some degree of socialist economic reform. Labor Unions were powerful political players and as in Africa often supported socialist policies. Arab states were particularly found of expropriating foreign owned businesses and nationalizing them. Paradoxically, at the same time Nasser was nationalizing British owned industry in Egypt, he was also pursuing Western direct investments in his economy. This kind of behavior was typical of socialist in the Middle East and Africa. I don't think the Arab Socialist were ever on the same level as the farcical faux-communists ruling in places like the People's Republic of the Congo, where the fervent Maoist rhetoric was matched with rigid adherence to the French neo-colonial political framework, but they were never ones to let ideology get in the way of expediency.
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Nov 23, 2016 07:12
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Off the top of my head: Western Sahara had Polisario, Algeria had FLN, Tunisia had ASU and the Glorious Leader, Egypt had Nasser, Palestine had a spectrum of PFLPs and Fatahs, Israel had Labour, Lebanon and Syria had a smattering of parties, Iraq had the Baa'th, Iran had NF, South Yemen had YSP and parts of Oman had Omani counterparts of YSP. I guess it's interesting that none of these countries except for Iran were monarchies and that the only countries not to have a (supposedly) socialist ruler are monarchies (Morocco, the GCC).
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Nov 23, 2016 08:00
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Charles Lister just published a lengthy report on the history of the Free Syrian Army, good read for understanding a complex organisation https://www.brookings.edu/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/iwr_20161123_free_syrian_army.pdf
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Nov 23, 2016 09:31
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How have Algeria and Morocco been doing since the Arab Spring? How are their economies, their living standards and their human rights? I have not heard a peep from them besides the occasional Berber Rights milestone.
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Nov 23, 2016 10:16
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Grouchio posted:How have Algeria and Morocco been doing since the Arab Spring? How are their economies, their living standards and their human rights? I have not heard a peep from them besides the occasional Berber Rights milestone. There were major protests in Morocco recently when police threw a fishmonger's catch into a garbage truck and the fishmonger followed, getting crushed by the garbage compactor. Morocco's police have always kept a tight lid on things through brutal means, time will tell if they can keep dissent down forever though.
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Nov 23, 2016 16:23
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