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KiteAuraan posted:I turn 26 in April and lose my insurance through a parent, I can't get a job to save my life, let alone one with health insurance, and if they slacken controls on pre-existing condition denials I have no idea whether or not having Autism Spectrum Disorder will gently caress me. Also, if I can't get a job and I lose my SSI and Medicaid, because you know, somewhat disabled, I am hosed. Right there with you. I'm on the Medicaid expansion and it keeps me in meds for bipolar Edit: uh ed balls
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Nov 23, 2016 13:18
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Sheng-ji Yang posted:gently caress off obama Obama backed Hillary and she lost. He should step aside and stop trying to prop up the corporate friendly wing of the DNC which has proven to have a big track record in winning elections.
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Nov 23, 2016 14:02
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Fidel Castronaut posted:RIP every course. RIP FAFSA. RIP higher learning. Not all is lost. We'll still have some of the greatest private schools. 
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Nov 23, 2016 14:10
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Send your kids to Khan Academy.
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Nov 23, 2016 15:35
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I have yet to meet this mythical Bernie supporter that is somehow actually worse than the average American liberal when it comes to matters of minority rights. Why do democrats like this not understand that any efforts to help the impoverished, the unjustly imprisoned, the single mother, are going to overwhelmingly help racial and ethnic minorities? There's no need to say "I want to help all struggling black and latina single mothers", blacks and latinas make up a disproportionate amount of that population and everyone that's a struggling single mother deserves help. It's not queer-bashing to say that everyone who lives in poverty deserves help, even though transpeople are much more likely than average to live in poverty. I just don't understand why Hillary supporters keep inventing this straw-leftist, especially now that the race is over and abuela loving blew it on an unthinkable scale. To allude to Martin Luther King, Jr.'s comment on white moderates, as a loving Hillary supporter criticizing Bernie supporters, is the most goddamn self-unaware thing I have ever read. Hillary may have founded her campaign on criminal justice reform but her history with that movement is just as paternalistic as the white moderates who vexed Dr. King. Now more than ever we have to work together to overcome the situation we're in, and pithy bullshit like this is what got us here in the first place.
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Nov 23, 2016 16:00
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Heaven Spacey posted:I have yet to meet this mythical Bernie supporter that is somehow actually worse than the average American liberal when it comes to matters of minority rights. Why do democrats like this not understand that any efforts to help the impoverished, the unjustly imprisoned, the single mother, are going to overwhelmingly help racial and ethnic minorities? There's no need to say "I want to help all struggling black and latina single mothers", blacks and latinas make up a disproportionate amount of that population and everyone that's a struggling single mother deserves help. It's not queer-bashing to say that everyone who lives in poverty deserves help, even though transpeople are much more likely than average to live in poverty. I just don't understand why Hillary supporters keep inventing this straw-leftist, especially now that the race is over and abuela loving blew it on an unthinkable scale. To allude to Martin Luther King, Jr.'s comment on white moderates, as a loving Hillary supporter criticizing Bernie supporters, is the most goddamn self-unaware thing I have ever read. Hillary may have founded her campaign on criminal justice reform but her history with that movement is just as paternalistic as the white moderates who vexed Dr. King. Now more than ever we have to work together to overcome the situation we're in, and pithy bullshit like this is what got us here in the first place. Hill Folk also forget a good amount of civil rights movement was blacks wanting to have access to the same education opportunities and high paying jobs as white workers.
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Nov 23, 2016 16:03
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punk rebel ecks posted:What does the DNC Chair do exactly? snakeandbake posted:gets picked up angrily and then placed back down on the ground
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Nov 23, 2016 16:05
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Fidel Castronaut posted:RIP every course. RIP FAFSA. RIP higher learning. Glad I got my degree before now cause holy poo poo
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Nov 23, 2016 16:07
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Heaven Spacey posted:I have yet to meet this mythical Bernie supporter that is somehow actually worse than the average American liberal when it comes to matters of minority rights. Why do democrats like this not understand that any efforts to help the impoverished, the unjustly imprisoned, the single mother, are going to overwhelmingly help racial and ethnic minorities? There's no need to say "I want to help all struggling black and latina single mothers", blacks and latinas make up a disproportionate amount of that population and everyone that's a struggling single mother deserves help. It's not queer-bashing to say that everyone who lives in poverty deserves help, even though transpeople are much more likely than average to live in poverty. I just don't understand why Hillary supporters keep inventing this straw-leftist, especially now that the race is over and abuela loving blew it on an unthinkable scale. To allude to Martin Luther King, Jr.'s comment on white moderates, as a loving Hillary supporter criticizing Bernie supporters, is the most goddamn self-unaware thing I have ever read. Hillary may have founded her campaign on criminal justice reform but her history with that movement is just as paternalistic as the white moderates who vexed Dr. King. Now more than ever we have to work together to overcome the situation we're in, and pithy bullshit like this is what got us here in the first place. A lot of the more entrenched hill folk were sincerely under the impression that they were more progressive than bernie supporters somehow, usually because they swallowed the "bernie bro" narrative wholesale and assumed people only liked Bernie because they hated the idea of a woman President, or because in their minds being liberal and supporting the Democratic Party leadership are the same concept.
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Nov 23, 2016 16:08
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KiteAuraan posted:I turn 26 in April and lose my insurance through a parent, I can't get a job to save my life, let alone one with health insurance, and if they slacken controls on pre-existing condition denials I have no idea whether or not having Autism Spectrum Disorder will gently caress me. Also, if I can't get a job and I lose my SSI and Medicaid, because you know, somewhat disabled, I am hosed. Maybe you should tell your conservative family about what's going to happen to you Nothing republicans like more than an anecdote
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Nov 23, 2016 16:09
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Atrocious Joe posted:Parts of uk labour are good sadly corbyn just rolled over on fuckin' everything (not opposing the IP bill, "we must respect the will of the people" re: Brexit) instead of showing an ounce of backbone.  nice trackies though
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Nov 23, 2016 16:10
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or maybe we actually experienced Sanders supporters and their 'no war but class war' mindset actively trying to minimize minority issues in Democratic circles during the primary and thought it was kinda lovely. I mean, it's either 'the world is conspiring against us' or 'maybe we had some lovely people and Sanders' message could have been delivered better'.
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Nov 23, 2016 16:11
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Those sorts of people went to Trump after the primary. Either it was a blind anti establishment sentiment or whatever. They're not politically engaged and you would only find those weirdos in the deep depths of Twitter or s4p. They're rare but make a lasting impression. Of course I'm guessing. But I'm still a little bent out of shape over Commie Ned Flanders talking about how homosexuality is a sin and blah blah after going on about equality and economic justice for months. I can imagine people talking to one huge idiot that wants economic justice at the expense of social justice and not living it down. It's unfair to paint a wide brush over "Sanders supporters"though
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Nov 23, 2016 16:11
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Tatum Girlparts posted:or maybe we actually experienced Sanders supporters and their 'no war but class war' mindset actively trying to minimize minority issues in Democratic circles during the primary and thought it was kinda lovely. No, I'm pretty sure it's the other explanation.
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Nov 23, 2016 16:12
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I want to know what "social justice" looks like. Because looking at Hillary it was just interchanging specific minority groups in different parts of her answers to softball questions. "We have to help %minority% by understanding their struggles!" Somehow that is "better" then pointing out the actual problem of billionaires and corporations not paying taxes and wealth inequality continuing to grow.
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Nov 23, 2016 16:12
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hillary clinton lost to donald trump lmao
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Nov 23, 2016 16:14
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Tatum Girlparts posted:or maybe we actually experienced Sanders supporters and their 'no war but class war' mindset actively trying to minimize minority issues in Democratic circles during the primary and thought it was kinda lovely. That's fair, but "I prefer white nationalists to Bernie supporters" just smacks of anger over the election results rather than any actually productive sentiment, and Bernie himself would have been a stronger civil rights candidate than Hillary. What are some examples of economic justice rhetoric harming minority rights?
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Nov 23, 2016 16:15
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Can someone give me an actual example of "social justice" that only Hillary supported and that is opposed by "Bernie bros"?
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Nov 23, 2016 16:17
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SHY NUDIST GRRL posted:Those sorts of people went to Trump after the primary. Either it was a blind anti establishment sentiment or whatever. They're not politically engaged and you would only find those weirdos in the deep depths of Twitter or s4p. They're rare but make a lasting impression. My wife actually ended up with a negative view of Sanders and Sanders supporters near the end of the primary, 100% because of Reddit (Reddit ruins everything) She of course saw the writing on the wall after the election and told me on Nov 9th that she thought the DNC poo poo the bed on the rural working class, as I was gearing up to tell her the same thing, and we're now in total agreement w/r/t the best way forward for the Dems, so everything worked out  (I mean, not the part where we have President Trump obviously, but everything vis-a-vis political discussions in my personal life worked out anyway)
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Nov 23, 2016 16:18
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Powercrazy posted:Can someone give me an actual example of "social justice" that only Hillary supported and that is opposed by "Bernie bros"? Every minority group should have an opportunity to oppress the poor
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Nov 23, 2016 16:21
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Powercrazy posted:Can someone give me an actual example of "social justice" that only Hillary supported and that is opposed by "Bernie bros"? Equal pay for women. The primary thesis of Bernard Brothers is they don't care what other socioeconomic and/or ethnic groups get as long as they get that free healthcare and college.
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Nov 23, 2016 16:22
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Powercrazy posted:Can someone give me an actual example of "social justice" that only Hillary supported and that is opposed by "Bernie bros"? First white lady president?
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Nov 23, 2016 16:21
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ScrubLeague posted:Equal pay for women. This must be true because a thinkpiece said it was true
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Nov 23, 2016 16:23
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ScrubLeague posted:Equal pay for women. uh no? https://berniesanders.com/issues/income-and-wealth-inequality/ quote:6. Fighting for pay equity by signing the Paycheck Fairness Act into law. It is an outrage that women earn just 78 cents for every dollar a man earns.
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Nov 23, 2016 16:24
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Heaven Spacey posted:That's fair, but "I prefer white nationalists to Bernie supporters" just smacks of anger over the election results rather than any actually productive sentiment, and Bernie himself would have been a stronger civil rights candidate than Hillary. Yeah that hot take is dumb as all hell. The only logic behind it is a sort of accelerationism. Preferring a jolting fall in quality of thing (race relations) instead of a self normalizing slow decay.
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Nov 23, 2016 16:25
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Pay equality for women was a standard item on Bernie's List Of Stump Speech Applause Lines I literally heard Bernie say the phrase "Equal Pay For Women" out loud in person once, and thousands of "Bernard Brothers" roared approval, presumably because they were still thinking about free college or perhaps beer bongs
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Nov 23, 2016 16:26
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Powercrazy posted:Can someone give me an actual example of "social justice" that only Hillary supported and that is opposed by "Bernie bros"? Hillary was generally more anti-gun, which I think she tried to position as a social-justicey thing (Bernie in safe cozy Vermont doesn't care about the violence in black and Hispanic ghettos)
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Nov 23, 2016 16:29
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theres a will theres moe posted:Though I do hate rural white people. Everybody knows you're not supposed to say it to them. Baloogan - Fact Probator
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Nov 23, 2016 16:29
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Heaven Spacey posted:That's fair, but "I prefer white nationalists to Bernie supporters" just smacks of anger over the election results rather than any actually productive sentiment, and Bernie himself would have been a stronger civil rights candidate than Hillary. do you mean historic or recent? A lot of discussion that happened when minority activists voiced their issues with what they saw as Sanders' single focus on economic justice was around the whole 'well when we fix class inequality racial inequality will go away too'. That's just not reality historically speaking, and the left rallying around some kinda 'a rising tide lifts all boats' message was a pretty big turn-off for people who have very clear memories of when the tide rose for just one chunk of Americans and was called a success. You have examples like The New Deal having multiple provisions meant to outright ban blacks from accessing it or even in best cases just make it super hard, education reform that focuses on higher education but ignores pre-k to high school where tons of minority students are most likely to be disillusioned and ripe for dropping out of the system. It's a reason why people reacted poorly to Bernie's 'it's not enough to be a woman' tweet, because unless we have leaders who are actually from these communities these issues get ignored while the fixes that focus on the majority get held up as grand victories. There are very very very few people genuinely saying 'being a woman' was all they wanted in a candidate, and everyone knows that because otherwise we'd have had people like Bachmann and Palin and Haley rising up in the primaries and poo poo rather than hilariously flaming out with the rest. They are, however, saying that 'being a woman' or 'being black' or 'being latino' or whatever are positive factors in a candidate they'd already support politically, and dismissing it as 'identity politics' just feeds into the idea that whatever economic justice that happens will once again be written mostly by straight white dudes with that lens defining what a 'win' is.
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Nov 23, 2016 16:32
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Heaven Spacey posted:There's no need to say "I want to help all struggling black and latina single mothers", blacks and latinas make up a disproportionate amount of that population and everyone that's a struggling single mother deserves help.
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Nov 23, 2016 16:34
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I mean the Bernie Bro poo poo is still here on the internet for you to see, just check out Bernie's #1 fanclub over on plebbit Low-Information Voters Why would minorities vote for Clinton over Sanders But yeah I don't know how I managed to whiff a key bullet point of his campaign, so I was wrong as hell about that one.
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Nov 23, 2016 16:34
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loquacius posted:My wife actually ended up with a negative view of Sanders and Sanders supporters near the end of the primary, 100% because of Reddit Yeah with the loss I just placed all my optimism about established dems and set it aside. It's irrelevant now because we'll never know if they'd live up to expectations in office. No sense in dying on a hill that's already been reduced to a crater. A lot of resentment and frustration with Obama seems to be boiling over too. And I agree with it. If we're already not getting results now it's time to shoot for the moon.
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Nov 23, 2016 16:36
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i for one am shocked people write dumb stuff on the internet where you have to actively seek it out to see it
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Nov 23, 2016 16:36
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ScrubLeague posted:But yeah I don't know how I managed to whiff a key bullet point of his campaign, so I was wrong as hell about that one. Real scrub league play there
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Nov 23, 2016 16:38
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Tatum Girlparts posted:do you mean historic or recent? Oh I am very familiar with things like how the New Deal benefits and the post-WW2 GI bill almost exclusively went to white families. To your second point, having gone to school in rural south Texas I am also pretty intimately familiar with lovely public schools and de facto segregation (I'm latino). It's true that historically sweeping economic justice reform was white supremacist, just like how early workers' unions and feminist movements were also white supremacist. Modern civil rights and economic justice movements, such as those supported by Bernie Sanders, practice intersectionality, though, and frequently make reference to the needs of minorities in relation to their planned reform, so I feel it's not a relevant comparison to make. I don't think there were many people who were pulling for Hillary just because she was a woman, but I don't believe for a second that just because she's female her lived experiences would have made her a stronger candidate on minority rights than Bernie Sanders. Lord Hydronium posted:You might even say that all lives matter. BLM is a necessary movement because institutional racism is epidemic in the United States, and not just in criminal justice. There are still plenty of poor-rear end whites, and to imply that they are poor because of their own mistakes or lack of work ethic or weak morals is to promote the same just-world bullshit that makes a movement like BLM important.
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Nov 23, 2016 16:45
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ScrubLeague posted:I mean the Bernie Bro poo poo is still here on the internet for you to see, just check out Bernie's #1 fanclub over on plebbit Again: Reddit ruins everything. Pick a viewpoint, and someone on Reddit has ruined it. also what is up with those weird links, just link to the reddit posts you're linking to
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Nov 23, 2016 16:45
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SHY NUDIST GRRL posted:Real scrub league play there Truth in Advertising loquacius posted:Again: Reddit ruins everything. Pick a viewpoint, and someone on Reddit has ruined it. I was attempting to show how these viewpoints about (((Low Information Voters))) among that group were widespread.
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Nov 23, 2016 16:45
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ScrubLeague posted:Truth in Advertising a lot of them were also widely downvoted as far as I saw. one had like 4 upvotes, which for big subreddit like sanders4pres is pretty ridiculous but yeah, reddit is poo poo and there's a lot of stuff that's gilded or upvoted that never should've been, and that tends to be reflected in the larger subcommunities also, you should probably be aware that the alt-right and neo-nazis have been targeting reddit for a long time, and they would certainly try to drive a wedge between dems and minorities by posing as dems and posting hosed up poo poo. they're trying to do the same to BLM peeps now btw. 
Condiv has issued a correction as of 16:51 on Nov 23, 2016 |
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Nov 23, 2016 16:48
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ScrubLeague posted:Truth in Advertising I don't see how this is a counterargument to "Reddit Ruins Everything" A lot of people use Reddit. Reddit is inherently echo-chamber-y. A good Reddit search will get you basically examples of every lovely opinion you can think of being espoused unironically by any group you can think of. A lot of the time, as Condiv said, those posts will be buried due to not getting support, but they're there if you search. Also I don't see how this particular example is that damning. The top result of the one about minority voters was "why would an informed voter choose Hillary" (vote score: 0); the top comment on it was snark about the Hillary subreddit and the top comment that actually attempted to answer the question said "experience". Can you be more specific w/r/t the racist dogwhistles you were apparently hinting at?
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Nov 23, 2016 16:53
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Yeah it's probably also people falling for trolling. Everyone got trolled real hard this primary.
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Nov 23, 2016 16:55
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