Auspol November-The race that stopped the creation of a new thread

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Graic Gabtar: Dec 19, 2014; squat my posts

Recoome posted:

slow news day, aye Ratbag Ciarg?

Well I know The Guardian is probably a little right wing for your usual news round so I thought I'd help you out.

You never answered my question on why you called me out about the shoppies either dick head.

# ? Nov 24, 2016 08:59

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# ? Jun 9, 2024 12:31

Fuckface the Hedgehog: Jun 12, 2007

thatbastardken posted:

Rod Culleton is from WA though, so it's not just qld

WA is Queensland with less nice things.

# ? Nov 24, 2016 08:59

CATTASTIC: Mar 31, 2010; ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Graic Gabtar posted:

Well I know The Guardian is probably a little right wing for your usual news round so I thought I'd help you out.

You never answered my question on why you called me out about the shoppies either dick head.

Don't sign your posts

# ? Nov 24, 2016 09:05

GoldStandardConure: Jun 11, 2010; I have to kill fast
and mayflies too slow; Pillbug

Fuckface the Hedgehog posted:

WA is Queensland with less nice things.

Once the Great Barrier Reef dies, then its Coral Bays time to shine! :zoid:

# ? Nov 24, 2016 09:11

norp: Jan 20, 2004; TRUMP TRUMP TRUMP

let's invade New Zealand, they have oil

Pretty sure c-bay will be a wasteland due to global warming at about the same time.

# ? Nov 24, 2016 09:16

Schneider Inside Her: Aug 6, 2009; Please bitches. If nothing else I am a gentleman

All i know is that they call bags "ports" and that's truly hosed

# ? Nov 24, 2016 09:17

NPR Journalizard: Feb 14, 2008

GoldStandardConure posted:

Once the Great Barrier Reef dies, then its Coral Bays time to shine!

Ningaloo is already better than the GBR.

Fuckface the Hedgehog posted:

WA is Queensland with less nice things.

Depends on what you call nice things.

We have a functional greens party for one, and no equivalent to the gold coast, which is nice.

# ? Nov 24, 2016 09:25

Mr Chips: Jun 27, 2007; Whose arse do I have to blow smoke up to get rid of this baby?

Fuckface the Hedgehog posted:

WA is Queensland with less nice things.

Scott Ludlum's hair.

# ? Nov 24, 2016 09:32

Gridlocked: Aug 2, 2014; MR. STUPID MORON
WITH AN UGLY FACE
AND A BIG BUTT
AND HIS BUTT SMELLS
AND HE LIKES TO KISS
HIS OWN BUTT
by Roger Hargreaves

ewe2 posted:

It makes me sad too, I lived there and lived in towns from the top to the bottom of the state. But it's run by hillbillies on behalf of bloated pigs. Once you see it, you can't unsee it.

Oh I can't unsee it. I live in regional Queensland where those of us inclined to the left are few and far between.

# ? Nov 24, 2016 09:33

ewe2: Jul 1, 2009

You'd be surprised how blind some are, particularly in Brisbane. There is some reality to the country vs city truism. Half of Queensland is dying at any one moment and the other half are convinced they're the vanguard of the future.

edit: proof

ewe2 fucked around with this message at 09:50 on Nov 24, 2016

# ? Nov 24, 2016 09:39

iajanus: Aug 17, 2004; NUMBER 1 QUEENSLAND SUPPORTER
MAROONS 2023 STATE OF ORIGIN CHAMPIONS FOR LIFE

Channel Nine running ads for 60 Minutes during the cricket about the evils of the pokies makes me irrationally angry.

# ? Nov 24, 2016 10:38

starkebn: May 18, 2004; "Oooh, got a little too serious. You okay there, little buddy?"

Ricky voted horribly at least half the time, you must just have selective memory

# ? Nov 24, 2016 11:33

iajanus: Aug 17, 2004; NUMBER 1 QUEENSLAND SUPPORTER
MAROONS 2023 STATE OF ORIGIN CHAMPIONS FOR LIFE

starkebn posted:

Ricky voted horribly at least half the time, you must just have selective memory

That's considerably better than most of the people in parliament. We're grading on a curve here.

# ? Nov 24, 2016 11:43

Recoome: Nov 9, 2013; Matter of fact, I'm salty now.

Graic Gabtar posted:

Well I know The Guardian is probably a little right wing for your usual news round so I thought I'd help you out.

You never answered my question on why you called me out about the shoppies either dick head.

this is why i called you out about the shoppies lmao

# ? Nov 24, 2016 11:56

NPR Journalizard: Feb 14, 2008

starkebn posted:

Ricky voted horribly at least half the time, you must just have selective memory

Yes, but thats half better than what I was expecting.

# ? Nov 24, 2016 12:20

Xerxes17: Feb 17, 2011

starkebn posted:

Ricky voted horribly at least half the time, you must just have selective memory

Could I get a quick list? I've honestly forgotten, but I wouldn't be surprised.

# ? Nov 24, 2016 12:37

Graic Gabtar: Dec 19, 2014; squat my posts

Recoome posted:

this is why i called you out about the shoppies lmao

Well, if calling me out then making no sense at all about why helps you 'lmao' then more power to you.

# ? Nov 24, 2016 12:39

NPR Journalizard: Feb 14, 2008

Xerxes17 posted:

Could I get a quick list? I've honestly forgotten, but I wouldn't be surprised.

https://theyvoteforyou.org.au/people/senate/victoria/ricky_muir

# ? Nov 24, 2016 13:10

Recoome: Nov 9, 2013; Matter of fact, I'm salty now.

Graic Gabtar posted:

Well, if calling me out then making no sense at all about why helps you 'lmao' then more power to you.

Basically the tl;dr is that somehow I feel like you could spin that the SDA is a cool and good union when it's pretty much not

# ? Nov 24, 2016 13:43

Megillah Gorilla: Sep 22, 2003; If only all of life's problems could be solved by smoking a professor of ancient evil texts.; Bread Liar

SDA: We don't drown babies.

# ? Nov 24, 2016 15:19

WhiskeyWhiskers: Oct 14, 2013; "هذا ليس عادلاً."
"هذا ليس عادلاً على الإطلاق."
"كان هناك وقت الآن."
(السياق الخفي: للقراءة)

Gorilla Salad posted:

SDA: We don't drown babies.

Large donator to the ALP, so arguable.

# ? Nov 24, 2016 15:52

Megillah Gorilla: Sep 22, 2003; If only all of life's problems could be solved by smoking a professor of ancient evil texts.; Bread Liar

Now I'm genuinely depressed.

Sometimes I can go a whole day without remembering the horrible poo poo we're doing at sea.

# ? Nov 24, 2016 16:18

Recoome: Nov 9, 2013; Matter of fact, I'm salty now.

Remember kids, the SDA does NOT like same sex marriage or abortions. This should be called out at every opportunity, also they gently caress over their workers.

# ? Nov 24, 2016 21:30

adamantium|wang: Sep 14, 2003; Missing you

So it turns out Brandis was pissed off at Gleeson because in defending the ATO's claim to $300 million from the collapsed Bell Group it scuppered a promise by the Libs to help the WA government take control of $1.8bn from it.

quote:

Bell Group Bombshell: How the State Government's secret $1 billion deal was torpedoed
EXCLUSIVE Andrew Probyn and Shane Wright
Canberra - The West Australian on November 25, 2016, 12:59 am

A secret political deal between the Federal and State governments to let WA claw back $1 billion from Alan Bond�s collapsed Bell Group was torpedoed by submissions made by Solicitor-General Justin Gleeson on behalf of the Australian Tax Office.

It is understood Mr Gleeson�s submissions were critical in events that led to his resignation last month.

A senior Federal source toldThe West Australian that Attorney-General George Brandis verbally instructed Mr Gleeson earlier this year, as counsel for the A-G, not to run a particular argument in the High Court when a Bell creditor and its liquidator challenged the constitutionality of WA�s attempt to take control of the group�s $1.8 billion.

The West Australian understands Senator Brandis told Mr Gleeson an understanding had been reached between the Federal and WA governments to finally end more than two decades of litigation stemming from the group�s collapse.

The ATO, which at nearly $300 million was one of Bell�s four main creditors, separately approached the Solicitor-General to also act as its counsel and to run the argument for it.

Despite Senator Brandis� instruction, the ATO�s written submission to the High Court � authored by Mr Gleeson � used the precise legal argument that the Attorney-General had assured his State counterpart Michael Mischin would be avoided by the Commonwealth.

�Mr Gleeson advanced an argument that caused the WA Government to think the Commonwealth had acted in bad faith,� the senior Federal source said.

Mr Mischin was infuriated by the ATO�s move, not only because its argument in the High Court was on a basis the Commonwealth had promised not to advance, but because he thought the tone of the agency�s submission professed WA�s ignorance of the Constitution.

In fact, the Commonwealth was kept well abreast of the State�s intentions, with WA openly discussing the constitutional issues concerning its legislation and even sharing early drafts.

WA Treasurer Mike Nahan had received personal and written assurances early last year from then Federal counterpart Joe Hockey that the Commonwealth would not oppose the State Governments move.

On the weekend of April 2-3, just two days before the High Court hearing, Mr Mischin repeatedly called Senator Brandis and Assistant Treasurer Kelly O�Dwyer to seek an agreement that would avert Commonwealth involvement in the case � but to no avail.

The ATO was heard in the High Court case with its arguments � that the WA laws were inconsistent with Federal tax law � used to effectively �kill� the State�s legislation.

On April 12, five days after the High Court had heard the case, Mr Mischin and Senator Brandis had what witnesses say was a �blazing row� when the two attorneys-general met in Perth. Mr Mischin told Senator Brandis he was unhappy that the Commonwealth intervened in the case on the grounds pursued in court.

On May 16, the High Court ruled 7-0 that the legislation, which sought to elevate the Insurance Commission of WA to the front of the queue of creditors, was �invalid in its entirety�.

It led to Senator Brandis believing Mr Gleeson, as the second law officer, had disobeyed instructions from him, the first law officer, the Federal source said.

On May 4, Senator Brandis issued a directive that any department or agency seeking legal opinion from the Solicitor-General must first get Attorney-General approval.

A Federal Government source said the WA Government thought it had �comfort� before introducing legislation that would have proposed giving ICWA $930 million of the $1.8 billion assets, despite being an unsecured subordinated creditor, thereby leapfrogging the ATO and two other creditors. WA believed it had an agreement with the Commonwealth on how to carve up Bell Group assets because of meetings Dr Nahan had with Mr Hockey.

It culminated in a meeting in Canberra on April 9 last year, witnessed by two advisers, when Mr Hockey agreed that the Commonwealth would not intervene if WA pushed ahead with its legislation.

At the time, WA�s GST share was scheduled to fall from 37� in the dollar to less to 30�, which Mr Hockey acknowledged was �an issue for the Federation�.

A letter sent by Mr Hockey a few days later confirmed the agreement, with the overriding caveat that it not pose a sovereign risk. �Given the significant nature of the proposed course of action, I urge the Western Australian Government to ensure that the utmost probity is evidenced throughout the process so as to ensure that Australia remains and continues to be seen as an attractive destination for foreign investment,� Mr Hockey wrote.

At the heart of the Brandis-Gleeson dispute would appear to be differing views as to the role of the Solicitor-General.

Whereas Senator Brandis believed Mr Gleeson should have acted as the Government�s barrister, acting within the confines of the Attorney-General�s instructions, Mr Gleeson appears to have seen his role differently.

During a recent parliamentary inquiry, Mr Gleeson said the Solicitor-General was both independent and a key element of the government.

�The Solicitor-General is independent. The independence is protected by the statute,� Mr Gleeson said.

�The Solicitor-General has an important role in assisting ... the Government to uphold the rule of law for the benefit of the whole community.�

In his written submission to the inquiry, Mr Gleeson said it was �critically important� that those seeking advice from the Solicitor-General do so in an �uninhibited fashion and in respect of questions framed by them and not by others�.

Mr Gleeson�s view was supported by previous solicitors-general Dr Gavin Griffith QC and Sir Anthony Mason, a former High Court chief justice, and upheld by the majority report of the parliamentary inquiry. At a Senate estimates hearing in October, the tax office second commissioner Andrew Mills said it would have been strange if the ATO had failed to be part of the High Court action.

�In fact, the basis on which the litigation was being undertaken by that creditor relied on parts of the Tax Act, so it would seem strange for us not to be involved,� he said.

Mr Mills said that when the ATO became aware of the details of the legislation, it believed it had a responsibility to see if the laws were constitutional and to �protect the position of the Commonwealth�.

Mr Gleeson was approached for comment but was prevented from talking by his obligations of legal professional privilege owed to the Government.

adamantium|wang fucked around with this message at 22:06 on Nov 24, 2016

# ? Nov 24, 2016 22:04

Recoome: Nov 9, 2013; Matter of fact, I'm salty now.

adamantium|wang posted:

So it turns out Brandis was pissed off at Gleeson because in defending the ATO's claim to $300 million from the collapsed Bell Group it scuppered a promise by the Libs to help the WA government take control of $1.8bn from it.

wow

# ? Nov 24, 2016 22:50

Les Affaires: Nov 15, 2004

adamantium|wang posted:

So it turns out Brandis was pissed off at Gleeson because in defending the ATO's claim to $300 million from the collapsed Bell Group it scuppered a promise by the Libs to help the WA government take control of $1.8bn from it.

This makes sense. The ATO is legally required to seek and protect its position and to act within the law and to enforce the law governing it, so they would be negligent if they didn't ask the solicitor general to pursue the case.

Gleeson would have been in a nightmarish catch-22: does he accede to the request in defiance of the political will of the government of the day, despite its clear negligence, or does he risk allowing the high court to produce a potentially dangerous precedent through a decision that has a faulty legal basis? it's likely that if he hadn't put the argument on behalf of the ATO then the ATO would have had to seek its own legal advice at its own expense and then questions would be raised as to why the government didn't pursue it themselves.

# ? Nov 24, 2016 23:01

starkebn: May 18, 2004; "Oooh, got a little too serious. You okay there, little buddy?"

IANAL, but if the case got thrown out 7-0 isn't it probable that the judges would have come to the same decision whether Gleeson chimed in or not?

# ? Nov 24, 2016 23:04

Les Affaires: Nov 15, 2004

starkebn posted:

IANAL, but if the case got thrown out 7-0 isn't it probable that the judges would have come to the same decision whether Gleeson chimed in or not?

Not necessarily. The High Court uses whatever is presented before them and in some instances if there is a lack of legal argument before the court, for example because of unsophisticated litigants or defendants, the government of the day is entitled to provide additional submissions (interventions) to add legal weight to a case, either for or against. Obviously there is a risk of this being politicised, and that's what happened to this case: without the legal argument provided by the ato's appointed solicitor, the argument for WA government would have been stronger, if only because there would be a lack of credible argument against it.

As an aside, this is fresh for me because I was researching it to work out if/how somebody might make a submission to the Culleton election qualification case... :v:

# ? Nov 24, 2016 23:16

Recoome: Nov 9, 2013; Matter of fact, I'm salty now.

HOOOLY SHIIIT

Fremantle Mayor moves Australia Day celebrations to the 28th of Jan

quote:

�We thought it was time to acknowledge it wasn�t a day of celebration for everybody and it was an opportunity for us to come up with a different format on a different day that could be truly inclusive,� mayor Brad Pettitt told the West Australian on Friday.

This will most assuredly draw a response from the local ultranationalist unit in Perth

# ? Nov 24, 2016 23:37

Les Affaires: Nov 15, 2004

Recoome posted:

HOOOLY SHIIIT

Fremantle Mayor moves Australia Day celebrations to the 28th of Jan

This will most assuredly draw a response from the local ultranationalist unit in Perth

I'm sure the Coalition are preparing a statement right now.

# ? Nov 24, 2016 23:45

Cartoon: Jun 20, 2008; poop

Les Affaires posted:

I'm sure the Coalition are preparing a statement right now.

Ray Hadley was complaining about it bitterly so it's clearly ruffling all the right feathers.

Apparently the Left have also hijacked the 'Australian of the Year' process (Australian 25 11 16). This will be yet another way we can use rabid Nationalism and our National day to further the cause of screaming hate, social division and fascism. Yay!?

# ? Nov 25, 2016 00:23

ewe2: Jul 1, 2009

Les Affaires posted:

As an aside, this is fresh for me because I was researching it to work out if/how somebody might make a submission to the Culleton election qualification case...

It puts the Senate inquiry into a new light: Brandis didn't want to discuss why he wanted say over all decisions, and Gleeson was prevented by confidentiality to mention the ATO case. I suspect someone on the committee also knew what the real issues were. Brandis thought he held all the cards: if Gleeson went against him, he had this decree, but also he could disclaim his verbal direction if the High Court case went against WA and questions were asked about the Solicitor-General's advice (since presumably the ATO would discover this defence in appeal). All very messy and no-win for Gleeson and Brandis would have an unaccountable lapse of memory.

Speaking of dodgy moves:

quote:

The Federal Government will today announce it will move a key agricultural authority from Canberra to Armidale, in Agriculture Minister Barnaby Joyce's electorate

Mr Joyce, whose office has confirmed the move, has been pushing to relocate the Australian Pesticides and Veterinary Medicines Authority (APVMA) to Armidale since June.

But farmers, veterinarians and chemical manufacturers oppose the move, fearing the Authority will lose highly specialised experts from its staff.

Today an official policy order issued by the Federal Government will come into effect, requiring the authority to be located at least 150 kilometres away from Canberra.

The order cannot be disallowed by Parliament.

The cost benefit analysis is also expected to be released today.

We still don't know the real reason for this. Joyce's reasons are bollocks.

# ? Nov 25, 2016 00:32

open24hours: Jan 7, 2001

I think we do know the reason.

# ? Nov 25, 2016 00:40

Les Affaires: Nov 15, 2004

ewe2 posted:

It puts the Senate inquiry into a new light: Brandis didn't want to discuss why he wanted say over all decisions, and Gleeson was prevented by confidentiality to mention the ATO case. I suspect someone on the committee also knew what the real issues were. Brandis thought he held all the cards: if Gleeson went against him, he had this decree, but also he could disclaim his verbal direction if the High Court case went against WA and questions were asked about the Solicitor-General's advice (since presumably the ATO would discover this defence in appeal). All very messy and no-win for Gleeson and Brandis would have an unaccountable lapse of memory.

Speaking of dodgy moves:

We still don't know the real reason for this. Joyce's reasons are bollocks.

Classic pork, but there is still an argument that public departments can be located in remote areas to spread out the economy geographically. How far out is a matter for debate, but think of it like the fed gov moving Medicare and Centrelink processing to Tasmania as a form of local stimulus.

# ? Nov 25, 2016 00:41

Recoome: Nov 9, 2013; Matter of fact, I'm salty now.

Cartoon posted:

Ray Hadley was complaining about it bitterly so it's clearly ruffling all the right feathers.

Apparently the Left have also hijacked the 'Australian of the Year' process (Australian 25 11 16). This will be yet another way we can use rabid Nationalism and our National day to further the cause of screaming hate, social division and fascism. Yay!?

left-wing cultural marxist conspiracy :qq:

# ? Nov 25, 2016 00:43

ewe2: Jul 1, 2009

Nah, if it was just pork every Minister would have been doing it for years, with much better justification. There's something else.

# ? Nov 25, 2016 00:43

iajanus: Aug 17, 2004; NUMBER 1 QUEENSLAND SUPPORTER
MAROONS 2023 STATE OF ORIGIN CHAMPIONS FOR LIFE

Yeah, it seems an oddly specific thing to keep pushing.

# ? Nov 25, 2016 01:00

starkebn: May 18, 2004; "Oooh, got a little too serious. You okay there, little buddy?"

ewe2 posted:

We still don't know the real reason for this. Joyce's reasons are bollocks.

# ? Nov 25, 2016 01:02

Lid: Feb 18, 2005; And the mercy seat is awaiting,
And I think my head is burning,
And in a way I'm yearning,
To be done with all this measuring of proof.
An eye for an eye
And a tooth for a tooth,
And anyway I told the truth,
And I'm not afraid to die.

starkebn posted:

IANAL, but if the case got thrown out 7-0 isn't it probable that the judges would have come to the same decision whether Gleeson chimed in or not?

Courts can not make a decision based on arguments that are not run, courts are to rule on arguments between sides.

# ? Nov 25, 2016 01:03

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# ? Jun 9, 2024 12:31

open24hours: Jan 7, 2001

iajanus posted:

Yeah, it seems an oddly specific thing to keep pushing.

Probably just the most achievable goal. It's a small agency and it's easy to make an (incredibly dumb) argument that people who deal with animal medicines should be close to the animals. He's pushing the same thing with the MDBA. Gotta be close to the water, you see.

# ? Nov 25, 2016 01:13

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