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those anti-castro celebrations was just a Trump street rally apparently
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Nov 26, 2016 21:00
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Homework Explainer posted:i love that liberals or "leftists" or whatever have suddenly discovered "love it or leave it" after getting that treatment nonstop in the bush years i love how you've moved from "neoliberal" to just "liberal" and now it's encroaching on "anyone who isn't my specific idea of Left" as The Enemy
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Nov 26, 2016 21:00
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The only left that should be pursued is American style left. Latin America is bonkers quite frankly.
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Nov 26, 2016 21:01
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Yinlock posted:i love how you've moved from "neoliberal" to just "liberal" and now it's encroaching on "anyone who isn't my specific idea of Left" as The Enemy i dunno how that guy identifies so i was casting a wide net
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Nov 26, 2016 21:01
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Tatum Girlparts posted:it's a one party state my dude jfc you know the difference between workplace democracy and party politics
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Nov 26, 2016 21:01
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Tatum Girlparts posted:it's a one party state my dude they all love their communist utopia so much, why would there need to be another option?
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Nov 26, 2016 21:02
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zen death robot posted:Worked out pretty well tho Idk, Japan has been in a recession since the 80s and not doesn't really have a way out of a lot of serious socio-economic consequences now. Though yeah, the country was a lot richer and developed before that than, say, Cuba. Same with comparing SK with the DPRK. It was blown to hell by the US with more explosives used than the whole Pacific theater, 1/5th of its population dead, and like only 13% of arable land. And yet NK is still pretty sustainable with healthcare, education, etc whatever.. SK had much more material advantages, more population, much more trade, foreign aid, more arable land. Things like this should be put into context. But it seems commies only do that.. This isn't to say I (and probably every other marxist here) don't have criticisms of socialist countries because I do. It's usually assumed that we don't for some reason.. Tatum Girlparts posted:lol jesus christ 'there also are elections in cuba so it's democratic' was said itt unironically. Huh, I'm not talking about comical sham elections for 'dear leader' or something, there can still be a wholesome democracy among other branches of government, the workplace and for local stuff either way. Deimus has issued a correction as of 21:05 on Nov 26, 2016 |
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Nov 26, 2016 21:03
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blamegame posted:jfc you know the difference between workplace democracy and party politics bourgeois propaganda has left them unable to conceive of politics outside of elections! sad!
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Nov 26, 2016 21:04
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Deimus posted:Idk, Japan has been in a recession since the 80s and not doesn't really have a way out of a lot of serious socio-economic consequences now. Though yeah, the country was a lot richer and developed before that than, say, Cuba. North Korea is the victim and furthermore is doing great, gotcha lmao what a thread this is gonna be
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Nov 26, 2016 21:05
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we don't collectivize any more, folks. we just don't. can you believe it? cuba, get this — cuba is killing us here. they're killing us! they've got a party of the workers. we all love workers' parties, right? that's right. i'm gonna get in trouble for saying this, but we could use some cuba right here in the us. believe me. believe me
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Nov 26, 2016 21:06
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some of you Americans honestly baffle me with how little you appreciate the good things that you built
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Nov 26, 2016 21:06
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Deimus posted:Idk, Japan has been in a recession since the 80s and not doesn't really have a way out of a lot of serious socio-economic consequences now. Though yeah, the country was a lot richer and developed before that than, say, Cuba. you know that north korea is basically a hellscape right famine is a pretty regular occurrence while dear leader travels by train with gourmet food like a cartoon supervillian
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Nov 26, 2016 21:07
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GBS will be closed again soon
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Nov 26, 2016 21:08
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Homework Explainer posted:i dunno how that guy identifies so i was casting a wide net who cares  Nonsense posted:those anti-castro celebrations was just a Trump street rally apparently lol Little Marco Rubio is actually getting worked up over the Canadian PM's statement on Castro its cute~  if he weren't a gutless lazy absentee sack who sweats profusely if he does any kind of activity whatsoever, its almost as if he actually cares if it comes to that sore spot~Bulgogi Hoagie posted:some of you Americans honestly baffle me with how little you appreciate the good things that you built first world problems, if you aren't an immigrant (i am one), you don't appreciate the things that you have until it's gone. Maybe accelerationism will be a good thing after all Lastgirl has issued a correction as of 21:44 on Nov 26, 2016 |
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Nov 26, 2016 21:09
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blamegame posted:jfc you know the difference between workplace democracy and party politics that'd mean more in a country where Castro didn't crush dissenting labor unions that weren't 100% loyalists to his faction. It's the very literal meaning of a one party state.
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Nov 26, 2016 21:09
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We laugh when dictators tout 97% approval ratings or w/e but seeing all the liberal castro-bashing makes u think our establishment maintains similar levels of support for its values, just split between 2 parties
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Nov 26, 2016 21:12
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Tatum Girlparts posted:that'd mean more in a country where Castro didn't crush dissenting labor unions that weren't 100% loyalists to his faction. i mean this very sincerely — read the thing i linked or at least chapter 8 of it
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Nov 26, 2016 21:16
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Bulgogi Hoagie posted:some of you Americans honestly baffle me with how little you appreciate the good things that genocide, slaves and being the lucky dodger of destruction during two world wars built. Yinlock posted:you know that north korea is basically a hellscape right You understand that most western news of NK is sourced from SK schlock tabloids? The place is not exactly what you think.
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Nov 26, 2016 21:17
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Oh my god juche apologists are real
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Nov 26, 2016 21:19
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Deimus posted:You understand that most western news of NK is sourced from SK schlock tabloids? The place is not exactly what you think. i mean the source on a lot of it is people who escaped from north korea
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Nov 26, 2016 21:23
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Ice Cream Barbara posted:Oh my god juche apologists are real I'm not an apologist.. I just understand that it's different than the common portrayal..
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Nov 26, 2016 21:23
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Ice Cream Barbara posted:Oh my god juche apologists are real saying "western news about the dprk is largely bullshit" isn't apologism, it's fact people reported Dead By Wild Dogs have appeared on television months afterward you don't have to love the government to point this out
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Nov 26, 2016 21:24
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zen death robot posted:scary i know "Death is a preferable alternative to Communism!" Well you certainly don't seem biased. Checkmate capitalists. 
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Nov 26, 2016 21:25
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Deimus posted:I'm not an apologist.. I just understand that it's different than the common portrayal.. "we just have to keep an open mind..." [illegal footage of someone starving to death in a gutter in NK] "oh come on! that's just like one incident and as if we don't have homeless people starving anyways in our capitalist society AND by the way, the real important issue is that's illegal too you know! Respect this government, smdh! Verify this source please!"
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Nov 26, 2016 21:25
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Deimus posted:I'm not an apologist.. I just understand that it's different than the common portrayal.. lol
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Nov 26, 2016 21:26
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every stereotype about marxists is true it turns out
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Nov 26, 2016 21:27
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Deimus posted:I'm not an apologist.. I just understand that it's different than the common portrayal.. lol
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Nov 26, 2016 21:26
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People have phones and take videos in NK all the time.. there are videos on youtube of people driving around NK the police don't give a poo poo.
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Nov 26, 2016 21:29
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Deimus posted:People have phones and take videos in NK all the time.. there are videos on youtube of people driving around NK the police don't give a poo poo. but the joke was that you'd be flippant about someone dying in a gutter due to regulations being broken its just normal and okay since it happens in America too so nobody is innocent afaik~ but drat if you double down on that  "youtube videos of people driving in nk and nobody gives a poo poo" [youtube shows videos of emaciated people around weird isolated rural buildings] are you sure the cops dont give a poo poo because they're also starving and have more things to be concerned about, like staying alive?
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Nov 26, 2016 21:34
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Deimus posted:People have phones and take videos in NK all the time.. there are videos on youtube of people driving around NK the police don't give a poo poo. when they're allowed to sure last i checked the police would go nuts if you dared to record a statue
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Nov 26, 2016 21:36
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Deimus posted:People have phones and take videos in NK all the time.. there are videos on youtube of people driving around NK the police don't give a poo poo. you are not real. I'll believe HE is real, tons of western marxists love to jerk off places like Cuba and ignore anything against it because clearly everyone not in Cuba right now is a capitalist pawn. I'll believe the hilarious dudes telling guys who had family tortured by Castro that actually you'll find their family deserved it, because there's tons of pampered first world 'revolutionaries' who can't imagine that being reality. You, though, I won't believe.
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Nov 26, 2016 21:41
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Wasn't North Korea developing very well until the mid 70s, even surpassing South Korea? What happened?
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Nov 26, 2016 21:44
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Lastgirl posted:but the joke was that you'd be flippant about someone dying in a gutter due to regulations being broken its just normal and okay since it happens in America too so nobody is innocent afaik~ I don't want anyone to die of hunger or any kind of structural violence at all.. :/ You're making a lot of assumptions. I'm gonna drop this, sorry thread.
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Nov 26, 2016 21:44
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zen death robot posted:Sino/Soviet split and China had to cut back on the handouts So North Korea was only doing well because of aid?
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Nov 26, 2016 21:47
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punk rebel ecks posted:Wasn't North Korea developing very well until the mid 70s, even surpassing South Korea? What happened? 
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Nov 26, 2016 21:48
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Ice Cream Barbara posted:Oh my god juche apologists are real Wait till you find out that there are North Korean defectors who go back, because they prefer the DPRK to South Korea. When people say "North Korea is sustainable" they don't mean that it's great, they mean that they've managed to eke out a working state and economy in spite of all the disadvantages against it. Juche is the reactionary ideology of an embattled garrison state, which has legitimate fears of being invaded at any moment, and is still technically in a state of war with the South. In spite of all that, they can still manage to work out a functional nuclear weapons program as the most isolated country on the planet. Nobody is arguing that we should emulate Juche, but imagine what the United States could achieve as the wealthiest and most productive country on the planet under the direction of a socialist party. Bulgogi Hoagie can bitch and moan all he likes about Cuban party purges, while ignoring the ubiquitous state terror carried out by the United States both domestically and abroad. Leftists and Civil Rights activists used to be targeted for murder by the FBI & CIA, and now the United States can assassinate its own citizens, detain people indefinitely, and torture them on little or no evidence and without due process. Yet we don't even have substantial conquests of social ills to excuse any of it. Tens of millions still have no healthcare, and pretty soon millions more will lose their plans after the ACA is abolished. Tens of millions of people are food insecure, including millions of children, while a party is coming to power that will threaten to slash or abolish the Food Stamps program. Tens of millions are chronically unemployed, and are no longer even counted in the unemployment figures. Half the country is already in poverty, or one month away from destitution if they lose their jobs. Nobody can organize a union or protest working conditions if they don't already have one, because they're afraid of being fired. But hey, you've still got the freedom to buy the newest Call of Duty from Gamestop and stuff your fat pre-diabetic face with a baconator. Greatest country in the world.
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Nov 26, 2016 21:48
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:But hey, you've still got the freedom to buy the newest Call of Duty from Gamestop and stuff your fat pre-diabetic face with a baconator. Greatest country in the world. this is why i moved to america  not because of the better educational opportunities even though our education seriously needs a reform I'd like to read about why defectors go back, it seems like a case thing rather than a loose generalization and what the reasonings are. Like leaving family behind is the hardest thing to do, as an immigrant, so if you go back for family, not because the governance was better than that's a totally different reason. Sure worked out for my grandmother because she had too many friends and built a life back there even though the country absolutely went to poo poo. She's dead now, and died with a bunch of strangers in a small shack so there you go~   Thanks America for turning her away. Your decadent capitalist ways yet claims another victim~ 
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Nov 26, 2016 21:49
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:Wait till you find out that there are North Korean defectors who go back, because they prefer the DPRK to South Korea. you know some new posters were actually starting to take you seriously, i'm glad you've provided this lesson in how nuts you are
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Nov 26, 2016 21:50
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sure famine and horrific oppression is a common occurrence, but the usa does bad things so that makes it fine.
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Nov 26, 2016 21:50
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punk rebel ecks posted:So North Korea was only doing well because of aid? More or less, they were China's pet that got a healthy bit of support. When that got cut back NK just so happened to start doing badly. I mean it didn't help that it was led by a succession of madmen, of course, but losing a superpower's backing sure was bad. Pener Kropoopkin posted:Wait till you find out that there are North Korean defectors who go back, because they prefer the DPRK to South Korea. so cut the poo poo do you actually believe this is between either Literal Donald Trump and agreeing with you and other idiots that Castro was actually cool and good to purge his people regularly? Like, do you genuinely believe those are the options we're picking between? Also quick question literally what the gently caress have you done for revolution to give you the balls to act like everyone who disagrees with you is a fattened cow just mindlessly walking to the slaughter?
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Nov 26, 2016 21:56
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