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wiegieman posted:Yeah but if they're shooting pistoleers they're not shooting your line, and they're there to pull them out of position, not exchange fire. I'm not saying they're good at it, but if you want a mobile 360 shooter they're it (until welves come out.) Ah that makes sense, I never play empire and think I've seen them in only one or two out of hundreds of mp matches so my only experience with them has been the AI running them straight up to me and then melting. I hope that the melee wood elves are decent enough so that you don't have to totally rely on skirmishing because it seems like they'll be really frustrating to fight if that's the case. It's not fun chasing an enemy player around for 20 minutes not being able to reach them while they slowly wear you down.
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Nov 27, 2016 18:45
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Wood elves will have a front line that also shoots and it will be the worst thing ever to fight.
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Nov 27, 2016 18:50
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wiegieman posted:Wood elves will have a front line that also shoots and it will be the worst thing ever to fight. Wood Elves v Vampire Courts is going to be an exercise in 
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Nov 27, 2016 20:10
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SickZip posted:They're the worst unit in the game. Don't use them i haven't had a use for Slayers other than having a unit that really likes to lose a lot of soldiers in every single battle.
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Nov 27, 2016 20:25
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Mans posted:i haven't had a use for Slayers other than having a unit that really likes to lose a lot of soldiers in every single battle. Slayers are hilarious to watch at least
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Nov 27, 2016 20:33
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Pistoliers would work a lot better as light shock cavalry. Give them precursor charge fire, and melee stats in line with other light cavalry and a higher charge bonus.
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Nov 27, 2016 21:24
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Slayers are actually quite good at what they do, it's just living to fight another battle isn't one of those things. They get used a lot in MP if nothing else.
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Nov 27, 2016 21:25
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Kaza42 posted:Pistoliers would work a lot better as light shock cavalry. Give them precursor charge fire, and melee stats in line with other light cavalry and a higher charge bonus.  Precursor and a better charge bonus would probably suffice, tbh. They already fill the niche they're supposed to quite well, it's just that that niche is garbage trash in both campaign and MP. e; also i suspect welves aren't gonna be as bad in mp as everyone is expecting, but it seriously depends on how fast glade/hawk riders are. pack cavalry! brocretin fucked around with this message at 21:34 on Nov 27, 2016 |
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Nov 27, 2016 21:28
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wiegieman posted:Wood elves will have a front line that also shoots and it will be the worst thing ever to fight. Wood Elves front line is trees and Eternal Guard, neither of which shoot.
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Nov 27, 2016 22:09
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Kaza42 posted:Pistoliers would work a lot better as light shock cavalry. Give them precursor charge fire, and melee stats in line with other light cavalry and a higher charge bonus. Not familiar with Precursor Charge, but yeah a beefy charge bonus makes sense if charging works the way I think it does.
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Nov 27, 2016 22:28
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Yeah, Outriders can do a lot of damage when properly used but pistoliers are straight up trash. Anyway, the one mechanic I hope gets addressed as they release the rest of the trilogy is razing of settlements. With the Chaos invasion and race-specific settlements the mid-late game can feel like a slog of re-colonising the old world. It would be cool if after a while razed settlements returned to life or at the very least the Age of Peace triggered a one-off amnesty for places razed by Chaos to actually make the endgame interesting.
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Nov 27, 2016 22:36
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Pistoliers def warrant a small AP boost. It almost seems like a bug that they have the absolute bare minimum in AP.
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Nov 27, 2016 22:46
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Triskelli posted:Not familiar with Precursor Charge, but yeah a beefy charge bonus makes sense if charging works the way I think it does. Like how in Rome 2 a lot of units would have javelins that they throw right before charging. If Pistoliers got a special volley that fired right before impact, that would be Precursor Pistols.
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Nov 27, 2016 23:06
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pnutz posted:side note, what are the pistoliers useful for? that tiny ranged damage per shot makes it seem like they're useless versus anyone better armoured than a zombie or savage orc Unfortunately, you've cracked the code. Also their melee stats are so poo poo they can't even charge archers like skirmish cavalry in older TW games.
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Nov 27, 2016 23:18
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Pistoliers could really do with a range increase, actually. They're outranged by Wolf Rider Archers and Marauder Horsemen w/ Throwing Axes, the latter of which deals twice as much damage per projectile.
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Nov 27, 2016 23:38
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Pistolers can charge archers. Just not decent melee combatants like quarrelers.
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Nov 27, 2016 23:48
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Mans posted:i haven't had a use for Slayers other than having a unit that really likes to lose a lot of soldiers in every single battle. Slayers are just about required in multiplayer, particularly if your opponent brings monsters or cav. Dwarf update: After a lot of dwarf battles against hordes of squigs, black orcs, great swords, and handgunners, I am having good results with eschewing regiments of renown in favor of just having more (cheaper) bodies to throw at the problem. A "quantity has a quality all its own" kind of thing. Multiplayer quick battle is quite fun if you are tired of ai stupidity. You also see quite a variety of armies played. Unless it's Bretonnia.
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Nov 28, 2016 01:38
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Mans posted:i haven't had a use for Slayers other than having a unit that really likes to lose a lot of soldiers in every single battle. Slayers are actually good against giants, minotaurs, chaos spawn, trolls, and certain other monsters. Definitely niche, but not complete trash.
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Nov 28, 2016 11:32
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pnutz posted:I know about outriders, I used them a heap later on in my empire game. In a recent multiplayer quick match I came up against an Empire play who brought something like 6 pistoliers, 2-3 demigryph units, an amber wizard, and a flying lord. I was Chaos with a solid infantry backbone, 1 hellcannon, a manticore-mounted lord, 2 manticores, a manticore-mounted fire wizard, and a single unit of marauder horsemasters. The map had a lot of terrain and the guy just ran his cavalry around so that my cannon could never get a shot at it. My horsemasters threw a couple volleys but could not advance without being destroyed by overwhelming fire. I could not touch him. I could not engage with my flying units without being destroyed by his demis + general, and as I flew toward him he just kited with everything. Turns out that many pistoliers can actually do a ton of damage to flying units, and I actually had to pop a potion on my general even though he was never able to engage. The guy was too slippery and my stupid chaos warriors were never going to catch him. So we drew. A lot of the skirmish cav feels really weak until you come up against some rear end in a top hat on ladder who is willing to abuse it to its absolute full potential. I also recently drew against a Bretonnian player as Dwarfs who just ran away with his mounted damsel and Louen. Fucker had exactly two units left, everything else gone. I got a draw after crushing him. Multiplayer could use a few fixes.
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Nov 28, 2016 11:41
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Couldn't you have just corner camped him, and forced him to engage you? I don't do much MP though.
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Nov 28, 2016 13:55
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So, have they all but given up the chaos campaign?
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Nov 28, 2016 14:05
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ditty bout my clitty posted:So, have they all but given up the chaos campaign? They said they dropped the ball on it and want to go back to it again in future, but it's hard for them to go back and revise stuff when there's so much new stuff coming. They might revise it when they bring in the second Daemon focused Chaos army, maybe.
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Nov 28, 2016 14:35
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ditty bout my clitty posted:So, have they all but given up the chaos campaign? The second expansion is supposed to be all chaos all the time, with each god getting their own distinct faction, so I suspect the current Warriors of Chaos are pretty much just a placeholder, and wont be changed in a major way until the release of that big Chaos expansion.
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Nov 28, 2016 14:49
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ditty bout my clitty posted:So, have they all but given up the chaos campaign? there's some mods for that. Apart from that, I think that's way down in the nice-to-have pile alongside fixing balthazar gelt. speaking of mods, are there tutorials? I want to try some of the pistolier suggestions we came up with in the last couple pages
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Nov 28, 2016 14:56
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pnutz posted:there's some mods for that. Apart from that, I think that's way down in the nice-to-have pile alongside fixing balthazar gelt. Twcenter is the best source of info. Check out their forums. Keep in mind that modding from Empire on is fundamentally the same and so there's good info about modding in the older game forums as well.
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Nov 28, 2016 15:04
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Mans posted:i haven't had a use for Slayers other than having a unit that really likes to lose a lot of soldiers in every single battle. Slayers are underwhelming but not useless. Their crucial in multi where they help cover a huge hole in the dwarf lineup. In single player their mainly dragged down by their perpetually huge losses and that their tech buffs will essentially never be reached
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Nov 28, 2016 15:09
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ditty bout my clitty posted:So, have they all but given up the chaos campaign? I assume there'll be an empty period between DLC and the next game release, so maybe they'll revisit it then?
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Nov 28, 2016 16:11
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I hope so, all I know is that right now it plays like a chore on any difficulty
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Nov 28, 2016 16:19
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CA don't normally fix broken stuff until the next game. Please pre-order.
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Nov 28, 2016 16:24
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It's pretty obvious that Chaos as released was effectively just a mod to make a computer controlled faction playable. Presumably this was because they didn't want to alienate the very large number of Chaos players out there in the world. Chaos are a huge and sprawling faction on tabletop and the don't fit into 1v1 binary that paired factions on release had. They were an end game special event equivalent to the Mongol and Timurid invasion waves in Medieval 2. Chaos are the most popular warhammer army because, well, teenage boys. Chaos were always getting their own expansion, they were the single most profitable faction on the table top and their absolutely gargantuan army list reflects this. Warriors of Chaos, Beastmen and Daemons were all allowed in the same lists at one point. The Chaos expansion being the third game is fine with me, everyone is else is more interesting than them. Though a fully fleshed out Chaos list as a supreme multifront big bad at the end of the multiexpansion game map with multiple points of invasion would be rad. Practically every continent has a Chaos presence so it still works even with the map extended.
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Nov 28, 2016 16:51
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sassassin posted:CA don't normally fix broken stuff until the next game. Please pre-order. Where do they even go from here? WH is such a perfect setting for TW anything historical feel dull and limited in comparison. So... Total War 40K?
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Nov 28, 2016 16:52
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ditty bout my clitty posted:So, have they all but given up the chaos campaign? Best case scenario: we get more free unit updates and access to some of the Beastmen mechanics to help Warriors of Chaos keep up their momentum. Unfortunately Archaon means we're stuck with the generic Chaos Undivided as our only option until a major expansion comes out, as CA has promised not to release DLC for DLC. The kind of rework really needed is waaay too big for a free update. A shame, since I simply seek the silver and solferino syncophants of Slaanesh to supplement the stunning splendor of Sigvald... 
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Nov 28, 2016 16:53
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Double Bill posted:Where do they even go from here? WH is such a perfect setting for TW anything historical feel dull and limited in comparison. I get that it's not for everyone but just from a game-design point of view the freedom of being able to totally ignore historical accuracy, practicality, plausibility etc must be really liberating.
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Nov 28, 2016 17:22
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Have they streamed some of WE campaign yet, and if not when? The release is in little more than a week so it has to be soon.
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Nov 28, 2016 19:17
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I dont know posted:Have they streamed some of WE campaign yet, and if not when? The release is in little more than a week so it has to be soon. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AKhOWoYmgOA
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Nov 28, 2016 19:22
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They'll show off a Wood Elf battle soon too. I too am glad Warhammer is so diverse. I wonder who is more toxic for CA though, history nerds or Warhammer nerds?
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Nov 28, 2016 19:28
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It's always history nerds
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Nov 28, 2016 19:35
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MilitantBlackGuy posted:They'll show off a Wood Elf battle soon too.
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Nov 28, 2016 19:35
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MilitantBlackGuy posted:They'll show off a Wood Elf battle soon too. It's history nerds because TW history nerds largely aren't actual history nerds they're just hyper nationalists and/or ethnic supremacists who present a skewed view of history to support their nationalism.
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Nov 28, 2016 19:39
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Captain Oblivious posted:It's history nerds because TW history nerds largely aren't actual history nerds they're just hyper nationalists and/or ethnic supremacists who present a skewed view of history to support their nationalism. You will be first against the wall when Greater Serbia rises.
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Nov 28, 2016 19:46
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