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SHY NUDIST GRRL posted:They might come out with something like the league models but for theme lists eventually They did that in mk2 with things like the special gorax. It was cool, but having different cards for a model annoyed some people.
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Nov 27, 2016 18:36
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Eh I think it's rad. Hell I was thinking yesterday of an affinity warlock that changes animus Gigalith has rage while in Brad's control range otherwise,
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Nov 27, 2016 19:00
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rydiafan posted:They did that in mk2 with things like the special gorax. It was cool, but having different cards for a model annoyed some people. What doesn't annoy some people.
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Nov 27, 2016 19:44
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Got my krielstones + ua for 45 canadabux today aww yusss gotta get that mega clearance
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Nov 27, 2016 20:04
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GoodBee posted:Didn't they say there would be theme force exclusive models? Or did I imagine that because I want it to be a thing? I remember them saying something about that, but I think it was must've been poorly worded because since then they've said that there won't be any theme-specific models.
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Nov 27, 2016 22:15
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Yeah, my initial impression was that there were models that were only going to be available for use in theme forces, but that was all secondhand so I have no idea if that's what PP said initially, or if it was poor wording and they meant they were just including new models in the same books with theme forces.
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Nov 27, 2016 22:20
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I was expecting the black dragons / silverline approach to get used more (variant UAs on the same base unit) but there haven't been any others since have there?
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Nov 27, 2016 22:33
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xiw posted:I was expecting the black dragons / silverline approach to get used more (variant UAs on the same base unit) but there haven't been any others since have there? Closest thing to that has been eiryss3 for the mhsf, but she doesn't completely change the unit as much as those.
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Nov 27, 2016 23:33
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They said in a podcast that an idea they are kicking around for the Trenchers theme book would be say, Trencher Mechaniks. So they would have both Trencher rules and Mechanik rules. The hard part for them is finding the right balance of what to do.
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Nov 28, 2016 00:23
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That'd be interesting. Wonder if khador will get some kind of iron fang ranged unit for their theme? Like some kind of elite archers that fit with the traditionalists. Maybe cavalry. I could see vlad having iron fang uhlans with carbines maybe. chutche2 fucked around with this message at 00:54 on Nov 28, 2016 |
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Nov 28, 2016 00:46
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Excelsiortothemax posted:They said in a podcast that an idea they are kicking around for the Trenchers theme book would be say, Trencher Mechaniks. So they would have both Trencher rules and Mechanik rules. The hard part for them is finding the right balance of what to do. Yeah, that's pretty much it. It's to allow them to add similar models to existing ones within a faction. If they released a Storm Knight theme at the moment it probably wouldn't allow field mechanics but they could release a Storm Knight mechanic for the theme. Previously they wouldn't have released a second mechanic model in faction but themes open up the design space(drat I'm sick of that term now) for them. Then in an un-themed list you could run either field mechanics or a Storm Knight mechanic if you wanted a repair ability in your list.
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Nov 28, 2016 01:08
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Friendly Fire posted:Yeah, that's pretty much it. It's to allow them to add similar models to existing ones within a faction. If they released a Storm Knight theme at the moment it probably wouldn't allow field mechanics but they could release a Storm Knight mechanic for the theme. Previously they wouldn't have released a second mechanic model in faction but themes open up the design space(drat I'm sick of that term now) for them. Though I think in this case you'd always pick the storm knight mechanic for that sweet accumulator action
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Nov 28, 2016 01:39
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Doesn't really help with SKU bloat though. In the long term I wonder if packaging up a collection of 10 solos and support per faction into a single box would make sense -get choir + vassals + hierophant + a wrack in one box.
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Nov 28, 2016 07:54
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xiw posted:Doesn't really help with SKU bloat though. In the long term I wonder if packaging up a collection of 10 solos and support per faction into a single box would make sense -get choir + vassals + hierophant + a wrack in one box. I feel like there's value to a player/store in that 'pocket money'/'impulse buy' sized SKU of buying a single solo, or small unit.
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Nov 28, 2016 11:14
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Harkano posted:I feel like there's value to a player/store in that 'pocket money'/'impulse buy' sized SKU of buying a single solo, or small unit. Here's my anecdotal evidence from working in a shop: Yes Yes there is
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Nov 28, 2016 15:16
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Harkano posted:I feel like there's value to a player/store in that 'pocket money'/'impulse buy' sized SKU of buying a single solo, or small unit. I'd figure that's why we're not going to see solos like this. If anything, I'd expect changes to abilities, ala the change to empower that Arcanists got in the MKII Force Wall tier list. While I agree it'll create outrage from some quarters, it seems like the only way to make additional changes to units without SKU bloat. Maybe also release a conversion pack to add parts to multiple solos, ala the Silver Line and Black Dragon kits. But those weren't seen as successes, given that zero have been released since and one of those kits has been removed.
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Nov 28, 2016 15:55
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rkajdi posted:Maybe also release a conversion pack to add parts to multiple solos, ala the Silver Line and Black Dragon kits. But those weren't seen as successes, given that zero have been released since and one of those kits has been removed. Whaaa? Black Dragons always seemed like a favorite of Khador players to me, and while Silverline Stormguard suffered from, well, the basic stats of Stormguard, some Cygnar players (myself included) dug it. As for removal, didn't Silverline become a general retail release with Black Dragons getting incorporated into the new IFP box? I think both came off pretty well and that it's a valid path for them to take in design.
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Nov 28, 2016 16:15
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Harkano posted:I feel like there's value to a player/store in that 'pocket money'/'impulse buy' sized SKU of buying a single solo, or small unit. It is, but in lots of places Warmachine isn't a big enough game that it's stocked fully like Warhammer is. It's hard to impulse buy special order items, though I'd still rather have smaller packages that make sense for solos, instead of having to get 2-3 other things with them that don't match up. SKU consolidation should be more along the lines of mulit-kits or removing min units & expansions (though I think that is done already except for CAs & WAs) instead of having to get extra items with every solo you need. I'd hate to see the only way to get a Dakar to be to get a unit of Venators, for instance. A good compromise would be to add a slinger CA, and then make a box that's Slingers/Reivers plus CA. Kills two SKUs and doesn't really do much to harm your ability to purchase stuff separately (you;d need to hurry and get the CAs for the units you don't have them for, but otherwise it's no loss.
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Nov 28, 2016 16:31
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I could kind of see something along the lines of the infinity "support pack" boxes that are a group of loosely similar models sold in a single box for warmachine solos.
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Nov 28, 2016 16:48
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Pyrolocutus posted:Whaaa? Black Dragons always seemed like a favorite of Khador players to me, and while Silverline Stormguard suffered from, well, the basic stats of Stormguard, some Cygnar players (myself included) dug it. As for removal, didn't Silverline become a general retail release with Black Dragons getting incorporated into the new IFP box? I think both came off pretty well and that it's a valid path for them to take in design. Upgrade kits are bad and people hate them. In mark 2 those units just replaced the units they were based on effectively. They were popular because they were strictly better. Its less of an issue now, but it's a tenuous design path because with units so similar it's easy to have one just be worse.
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Nov 28, 2016 16:51
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Pyrolocutus posted:Whaaa? Black Dragons always seemed like a favorite of Khador players to me, and while Silverline Stormguard suffered from, well, the basic stats of Stormguard, some Cygnar players (myself included) dug it. As for removal, didn't Silverline become a general retail release with Black Dragons getting incorporated into the new IFP box? I think both came off pretty well and that it's a valid path for them to take in design. I'm talking the kits, not how things turned out competitively. I also like upgrade kits, since it actually starts to put a little bit of modelling back into the game, but a huge number of people don't like it and didn't buy the kits. PP has also been removing the character jack/beast conversion kits, so it's obvious that the route is not favored anymore. I personally like the whole convert your stuff up to personalize your army thing, but the WMH community hates serious amounts of conversion, so good luck selling anything like that to people.
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Nov 28, 2016 17:11
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It's a little unfair to say the community hates conversions. Hobby stuff is less emphasized, sure. But off the top of my head I can think of : dapper Gators, techno-Legion, evil Trolls, half of Farrow players it seems like, and all sorts of other random projects. Seriously stake out the faction groups online and the painting forum on the main boards. There's cool poo poo floating around. Just have to look for it a bit. There's plenty more I can't remember and name at the moment.
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Nov 28, 2016 17:23
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People don't like required conversions. If people want to take on big modeling projects that's cool and I'll be delighted to see them on the board. I don't want to buy a full kit and an extra batch of metal bits that magnetize really poorly to get my character beast.
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Nov 28, 2016 17:36
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Yeah those upgrade kits were an interesting idea, and probably sold a good amount of the plastic heavy kits, but they didn't look good and were a pain.
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Nov 28, 2016 18:00
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Fyrbrand posted:It's a little unfair to say the community hates conversions. Hobby stuff is less emphasized, sure. But off the top of my head I can think of : dapper Gators, techno-Legion, evil Trolls, half of Farrow players it seems like, and all sorts of other random projects. Seriously stake out the faction groups online and the painting forum on the main boards. There's cool poo poo floating around. Just have to look for it a bit. There's plenty more I can't remember and name at the moment. It's not that unfair when you are at the point where weapon-swaps from a sword to an axe make something event illegal. I see way less conversion in this game than I saw in WFB or 40K. Though both those games had less conversion work once the lines were shrunk as the move towards everything coming from the company itself has increased. I know it makes me a grog, but I rather liked when there were a lot of units you had to do conversions to get done-- like Eldar Exodites or most of the random Imperial Agents in 40K. There's a bit of stuff I saw in the ret forum, but most of it was fairly minimal reposing and one very cool 3-D printed jetbike Destor unit and Vyros2 that the creator even remarked would not be event legal. It's very hard to justify the time and effort to make something just so some neckbeard I'm playing can poo-poo it because of line 3.A from this document.
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Nov 28, 2016 19:28
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Nobody actually does that though. Seriously. I've both been to and ran local events for years, and have attended Adepticon, GenCon, and WMW. As long at it's clear what the model is supposed to be, it's always been fine. The only time that poo poo comes up is if you're going to be in an official event streamed by PP. There they justifiably want to present their IP in as clear a manner as possible. So sure, if you're ever in the IG finals at Lock and Load, your hypothetical conversion might be a problem. Otherwise it's a dumb strawman argument.
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Nov 28, 2016 19:39
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Fyrbrand posted:Nobody actually does that though. Seriously. I've both been to and ran local events for years, and have attended Adepticon, GenCon, and WMW. As long at it's clear what the model is supposed to be, it's always been fine. The only time that poo poo comes up is if you're going to be in an official event streamed by PP. There they justifiably want to present their IP in as clear a manner as possible. So sure, if you're ever in the IG finals at Lock and Load, your hypothetical conversion might be a problem. Otherwise it's a dumb strawman argument. I'm not sure why looking at the rules directly as they are written is a strawman. If it's cool to bring more converted and different looking stuff to those events, that's great. I'm not seeing pictures of them showing up to anywhere near the level those kinds of armies did in the IndyGT events I used to attend for GW games. And considering that you can't convert up stuff for unreleased/not generally released figures, it's pretty obvious the intention is game first, hobby second. I just think it's sad, because the models and theme are what bring new players into the miniature hobby in general. Unpainted grey/black primered stuff doesn't, which is why I've been pushing playing painted stuff at the hobby shop. A game of well-painted figures is going to attract more new players than grey army vs. grey army as is now common in lots of games. And with the low model counts it seems imminently doable.
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Nov 28, 2016 21:11
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Idk if xwing is any indicator, PP would be best off doing a cheap color job on 'jacks and selling the models pre-posed
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Nov 28, 2016 22:22
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I've had more friend quit the game due to the pressure to paint than I've had friends who joined because of paint jobs.
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Nov 28, 2016 22:37
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WMH is a game first, hobby second. GW is the reverse because you sure as gently caress aren't in it for the right rule set. I love painting and hobby stuff but you have to just accept it'll never be emphasized like in the GW community. I gave up that fight long ago.
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Nov 28, 2016 22:54
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counterspin posted:I've had more friend quit the game due to the pressure to paint than I've had friends who joined because of paint jobs. Not only that, but you know a mediocre paint job sometimes seems like a bigger sin than an unpainted army.
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Nov 28, 2016 22:56
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waah posted:Not only that, but you know a mediocre paint job sometimes seems like a bigger sin than an unpainted army. This is why I don't paint
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Nov 28, 2016 23:09
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waah posted:Not only that, but you know a mediocre paint job sometimes seems like a bigger sin than an unpainted army. Yeah, I've seen several "painted armies" that are so ugly that I'd honestly prefer to play against bare metal. I really hate how people are pressured to paint. I started playing Warmachine for the rules and the general theme, not so that I could paint models. I'm starting to play Infinity for the same reason. I paint stuff when I have time and get into the mood, but by no means are all of my models painted, or even close to. I think my favorite advice has always been "at least prime the models, don't leave them bare metal!" when bare metal is a hell of a lot easier to see details on than something primed black.
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Nov 28, 2016 23:10
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yeah primed black is the worst and you honestly don't need to prime at all with the p3 paints
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Nov 28, 2016 23:18
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anyways my rule for painting is it only needs to look decent from 4ish feet away so just slap some nice colours on your stuff and don't worry about detail or inks or other art shite
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Nov 28, 2016 23:19
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Huh I've never been pressured to paint. And if anyone said anything I'd just explain I'm waiting to move out to set up a paint station
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Nov 28, 2016 23:41
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I used to like painting a lot more than I do now. I think I also enjoy painting minis with less fiddly bits and details. Some of these new sculpts are gorgeous but they've just got too much going on for me to enjoy painting them.
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Nov 29, 2016 00:08
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waah posted:Not only that, but you know a mediocre paint job sometimes seems like a bigger sin than an unpainted army. Not really. Bad paint jobs can be made to look average with minimal effort. When I've had people ask, I'm more than willing to sit down and show how minimum extra effort gets you to a reasonable paint job. I also do everything possible to combat the idea of pro quality or bust, which is one of the worst things to come out of the internet hobby community. I also want to maybe clarify that I'm also talking about making sure all my stuff is painted, not my opponent's, though I do give preference in playing games with people who want to play with painted figures and real terrain. Sorry if that makes me some sort of cancer that's destroying the hobby. Hell, there's an easy compromise to show detail on your unpainted figures-- an ink wash shows up the detail and make things way more easy to tell apart. I don't know why we don't ask this as a minimum for event play, same as arc markings. If people are worried that figures aren't immediately identifiable because of conversions, having an unidentifiable sea of primer or metal is at least as big a problem. Jimmy Hats posted:anyways my rule for painting is it only needs to look decent from 4ish feet away so just slap some nice colours on your stuff and don't worry about detail or inks or other art shite Inks/washes/dip are literally the things that make something differentiated from across the table. It's also the lowest effort part of painting, so acting like you shouldn't bother with the easy step to improve figure clarity after the hard part of base coating has been completed. I'm a big fan of dip, and it makes for very striking simple paint schemes that are accessible to honestly anyone with enough co-ordination to put together their figures in the first place.
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Nov 29, 2016 00:09
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Painting figs is fun sometimes but I just want to murk noobs and theres endless minis in an army
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Nov 29, 2016 00:17
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rkajdi posted:the IndyGT events I used to attend for GW games. You mean the same kind of places you can bring your WMH conversions without someone batting an eye?
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Nov 29, 2016 00:22
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